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Some people think that everything is about them...
Messiah
Failed Experiment
in Zocalo v2.0
[url]http://boundless.org/features/a0000860.html[/url]
I am truly sickened by this abhorrent reading.
I am truly sickened by this abhorrent reading.
Comments
Regards,
Morden
[B]For f*ck's sake, not more fundementalist propaganda...
Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]
The Fundamentalists are a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.
[B]The Fundamentalists are a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm no revolutionary, but I agree that somthing needs to be done against these people.
Regards,
Morden
First off, the topic title: 'Some people think that everything is about them...'
how so? Looks like he's more upset that people think everything IS about them.
[b]For f*ck's sake, not more fundementalist propaganda...[/b]
I can agree here, he IS a little off the deep end.
[b]The Fundamentalists are a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes.[/b]
and
[b]I'm no revolutionary, but I agree that somthing needs to be done against these people. [/b]
Here I have a problem, you see, while fundamentalist may be concidered a little extream in their views, they still have the core beliefs of christianity, mainly to love everyone else. Your saying that you want to kill them all off? Guess, what, now YOUR an extreamist, and your going to have to kill me along with anyone else, k? :mad:
(on another note if anyone can quote examples of this being not the case id be very interested to hear them. seriously, im not being funny here)
If you look closely enough...
That there is a GREAT divide between a true fundamentalist Christian, and what the media defines as a fundamentalist Christian.
:rolleyes:
A2597 feels the need to defend himself because of this situation. I on the other hand know that I am not being refered to when this kind of comment comes along every so often...
;)
Fundamentalism isn't about activism or political power, it is about the core beliefs concerning Jesus in relation to the Christian faith (not religion).
Anyone can call themselves a Christian, not everyone acts like what one should be.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Messiah [/i]
[B][url]http://boundless.org/features/a0000860.html[/url]
I am truly sickened by this abhorrent reading. [/B][/QUOTE]
I really believe that only Tolkien truely knows what he meant by his literary works.
;)
[B][b]I'm no revolutionary, but I agree that somthing needs to be done against these people. [/b]
Here I have a problem, you see, while fundamentalist may be concidered a little extream in their views, they still have the core beliefs of christianity, mainly to love everyone else. Your saying that you want to kill them all off? Guess, what, now YOUR an extreamist, and your going to have to kill me along with anyone else, k? :mad: [/B][/QUOTE]
Calm down mate, I did [b]NOT[/b] intend to suggest something more harsh than strong language and a verbal "backlash from reality" from people who are sick hearing this rubbish.
I should have reworded my post to separate myself [b]more[/b] from Entil'Zha's extremist message. (Evidently saying "I'm no revolutionary" didn't go far enough in doing this.) I merely wanted to say that we shouldn't just lie down and have fundementalist dogma forced upon us.
I blame my own phrasing here, and I sincerely apologise if I've caused any offense, mate.
Regards,
Morden
[B]I have to agree with ShadowDancer. [/B][/QUOTE]
Indeed.
and now on a more serious note. while i dont agree with religion (except budism, tho that can go a bit too far as well), i respect other peoples beliefs. afterall that is what we fought to protect against the soviets/nazis etc...: the right to believe what we want.
what i do have a problem with is when people try to force it on me. for example, when i split up with my g/f after new year, she was begging me to go with her to church and leave the relationship 'in gods hands' and to 'trust in him' yadyadya......suffice to say i was outa there so fast there was a hole in the air! (the beautific smile she had on her face the whole time scared the hell outa me as well.):(
[B]How am I supposed to say anything in this thread if ShadowDancer is going to keep saying it all before me? :) [/B][/QUOTE]
should i be worried?:eek: :D
[B]Calm down mate, I did [b]NOT[/b] intend to suggest something more harsh than strong language and a verbal "backlash from reality" from people who are sick hearing this rubbish.
I should have reworded my post to separate myself [b]more[/b] from Entil'Zha's extremist message. (Evidently saying "I'm no revolutionary" didn't go far enough in doing this.) I merely wanted to say that we shouldn't just lie down and have fundementalist dogma forced upon us.
I blame my own phrasing here, and I sincerely apologise if I've caused any offense, mate.
Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]
Apology accepted, just looking between the two post, "Something against ther people" sounds like Go and kill them "Something about these people" would be fine in my book. The wording just...well, you know. :)
Just a little food for thought,
how is this forced upon us? If it were a banner add/pop up, I'd liken it to porn adds, but any other means....it's optional.
the internet is a place where anyone can say anything they want, and if a person doesn't like it, they don't have to read it. Same goes for radio, television, books, magazines, etc. It isn't forced, it's available.
forced would be teaching it as fact in public schools, or something like that. Obviously reading that upset you, but now you know how I feel about evolution being forced.... :D
give a little take a little I guess...
and yes, as Jack said, there is a BIG difference between what a fundamentalist is (A Bible believing christain) and how the media defines it (A fanatical).
[B]Apology accepted, just looking between the two post, "Something against ther people" sounds like Go and kill them "Something about these people" would be fine in my book. The wording just...well, you know. :)
Just a little food for thought,
how is this forced upon us? If it were a banner add/pop up, I'd liken it to porn adds, but any other means....it's optional.[/B][/QUOTE]
Cool man, the last thing I wanted was to upset someone here.
About the "forced" aspect of Christian dogma, I'm speaking from personal experiences over here in the UK. I agree completely that on the 'net you can choose what to look at, but you might have heard me mention street-preachers over here in Britain. I'm always annoyed by the same groups who come down into town every Saturday and speak the word of God in imperratives; ie. "You WILL worship the Lord your God and be saved", "Jesus IS your saviour", and so forth.
Speaking personally, I was baptised into the Anglican Church, and attended church regularly for several years of my younger life. I consider the Christian faith to be an integral part of British history and culture, and by no means am I anti-Christian.
I am a strong advocate of free speech within the confines of the law and good taste, but the people I mention above are breaking the latter with their, violent, vitriolic dogma. It's [i]their[/i] take on preaching the faith that I find abhorrant, Lord knows there are better ways of bringing the word of God to the masses.
I guess this partucular article brought out some personal feelings that I wanted to vent, and I regret that I phrased them so that you got the wrong idea.
Regards,
Morden
[B]Personally Ive observed religion to be behind or used as a pretext for most of the worlds problems and wars. and it would seem that Andy Serkis (gollum) agrees
(on another note if anyone can quote examples of this being not the case id be very interested to hear them. seriously, im not being funny here) [/B][/QUOTE]
ok....Fif I do, do I win a prize? (Hehe...sorry, serius..ummm)
World War 1,
American Revolution
American Cival War
Cuban Missile Crisis
Battle between Rome and the Goths
Pretty much every attempt by rome to concure more land
world war 2 (Arguable, but not religion related)
Veitnam War
Phillipine American War
Spanish American war
Battle between France and Briton (Or wars I should say)
French cival wars
OK, thats just off the top of my head....maybe edit in more later, moms calling.
(I know my second cousin Alan didn't trudge 20km over rough terrain, carrying his rifle, full bergen, and the launch-tube of a mortar over a religious matter.) ;)
Regards,
Morden
[B]Personally Ive observed religion to be behind or used as a pretext for most of the worlds problems and wars. and it would seem that Andy Serkis (gollum) agrees
(on another note if anyone can quote examples of this being not the case id be very interested to hear them. seriously, im not being funny here) [/B][/QUOTE]
Just to be different, I'm going to [b]not[/b] agree with ShadowDancer :D
One of my recent projects was to design a (imaginary) grant proposal to aid development in the world. A large part of my research was to look up similar projects done in the third world. It doesn't take long before you discover that nearly all of the projects are run by religious groups.
I've always thought a really idea is the Mormon practice of taking a year off to work in another country for the people there. And those World Vision ads on TV? At least they're doing something. And the Salvation Army too. All Christian.
As to war. Religion may be behind, or used as a pretext for war, but perhaps that's because religion is something people believe in strongly enough to fight for. I may not agree with it, but that's impressive determination.
I'm not saying I agree with religious wars (whether blatantly religious or not), nor am I saying that I agree with everything that, say, World Vision does. But I do believe that religion is a good thing in many cases, and the human race would be worse off without it.
-Φ
Regards,
Morden
[B]actually, the more I thought about it, the more I relized few wars can be attributed to religion, most notably the Crusades, and various islamic wars. (Mainly, if it's a war in the middle east, or in ireland, it's relgious) [/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly, people don't look below the surface of these conflicts.
To use an analogy when looking at the victims of "religous" wars, people only see the "club" that's hitting them, [b]not[/b] the person who holds it.
Regards,
Morden
I'm saddened that we still have troubles over religion in this day and age. I know there's other reasons like racism but I still think the world would be at least abit better without any religion at all or if we all believed in the same thing. I respect ppls religion also but not when it causes harm to others.
:)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ShadowDancer [/i]
[B]woot! someone agrees with me! :D
what i do have a problem with is when people try to force it on me. for example, when i split up with my g/f after new year, she was begging me to go with her to church and leave the relationship 'in gods hands' and to 'trust in him' yadyadya......suffice to say i was outa there so fast there was a hole in the air! (the beautific smile she had on her face the whole time scared the hell outa me as well.):( [/B][/QUOTE]
Reminds me of a similar scenario with my b/f but the other way round! I'm Christian but hardly go to church I don't even know if there is a god, but I wanted to go to Midnight mass as I'd never been and practicularly begged my b/f to go. Silly thing is I never enjoyed it anyway, felt guilty and bad about it! And I know now that I should've respected his view. Still you live and learn.
I know I'd never leave it up to religion to decide anything like what you was talking about with you g/f and I would've been scared too in that scenario! Perhaps it was her way with dealing with stuff, I think these kinds of ppl in a way have it easier cos of their strong faith and that they know that there's a heaven and they'll see their loved ones again and so on and so on.....
I quite respect that to a point. In some ways I wish as so many religions do, that I KNEW there was a god. I don't think I'd worry half as much!! Because in some ways you're leaving thoughts/decisions etc to god. But to me personally its false until actual evidence is proven. So I have a question mark and thats it! I like to think there's something out there. :)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MartianDust [/i]
[B]I'm Christian but hardly go to church I don't even know if there is a god, ...[/B][/QUOTE]
Recently, someone else told me "I'm Methodist, but don't really believe in Jesus". From my view point, Christianity is not a culture you're born into, such as Judaism, but is a personal choice. Its that 'Christ' in the word that makes the difference.
I see people claiming to be christians (I'll use lower case 'c' for the sake of this question), but they are really meaning they have mostly Western beliefs, aren't Jewish/Moslem/Hindu, etc., or were born into a Christian family and that's their heritage, whether they took it up or not.
I also see many complaints against christian nations (again with small 'c') by non-christian nations, when they're really complaining against things that are not Christ oriented; they are matters of national policy, not spiritual matters.
I'm wondering if you can clear up what you mean when you say your a Christian, but don't know if there's a God. Again, I'm not criticizing, just trying to see things through your glasses.:)
With the humanist view, nobility takes on a lesser meaning, and it is just that nobility that is missing. Theoden is a coward, only reacting to Aragorn's prodding; Faramir is indecisive, unable to make an on-the-field decision required by his position as leader; and even Aragorn is shown as waivering, which was handled much differently in the book. Even the nobility of Sam, in his faithful service, is lost to a buddy-buddy relationship in the movie.
I don't agree with everything in the post, but like most things in life, there is some truth in it.
[B]MartianDust, I'm not trying to pick on you with the following question. You just expressed something that I've heard from others, and I hope you can clarify it for me.
Recently, someone else told me "I'm Methodist, but don't really believe in Jesus". From my view point, Christianity is not a culture you're born into, such as Judaism, but is a personal choice. Its that 'Christ' in the word that makes the difference.
I see people claiming to be christians (I'll use lower case 'c' for the sake of this question), but they are really meaning they have mostly Western beliefs, aren't Jewish/Moslem/Hindu, etc., or were born into a Christian family and that's their heritage, whether they took it up or not.
I also see many complaints against christian nations (again with small 'c') by non-christian nations, when they're really complaining against things that are not Christ oriented; they are matters of national policy, not spiritual matters.
I'm wondering if you can clear up what you mean when you say your a Christian, but don't know if there's a God. Again, I'm not criticizing, just trying to see things through your glasses.:) [/B][/QUOTE]
actually, your exactly correct. Christianity is a faith, not a heritage. It is something the individual believes, if you don't think there is a God, or the part that puts the Christ in Christian being Gods son being sent to earth to die for our sins, then you arn't really a Christain. The only reason I can think of for this is that, looking at the Jews, a person can be born jewish, not believe in the faith, and yet everyone still conciders that person a jew, because the name of the religion is the same as the nation. While the same doesn't apply to Christianity, or Muslim faiths, the idea winds up being transfered to the other religions.
(BTW, just so I don't offend anyone, I'm not saying that you are not Christain, rather that being born into a family of a certain faith doesn't mean you are automatically of that faith),
[B]As to the original topic, I have to admit I do see a difference between the movie and the book, primarliy, as I've said in other posts, in the motivation of the characters.
With the humanist view, nobility takes on a lesser meaning, and it is just that nobility that is missing. Theoden is a coward, only reacting to Aragorn's prodding; Faramir is indecisive, unable to make an on-the-field decision required by his position as leader; and even Aragorn is shown as waivering, which was handled much differently in the book. Even the nobility of Sam, in his faithful service, is lost to a buddy-buddy relationship in the movie.
I don't agree with everything in the post, but like most things in life, there is some truth in it. [/B][/QUOTE]
man bobo, you certainly have a way with wirds to say what you want to in an excellent manner! :cool:
I agree here as well, certain things were lost, others added in. In doing so, some of the overall effect was lost.
I'm still curious as to how this text managed to bring about such anger here though.
[URL]http://www.macleans.ca/culture/films/article.jsp?content=20031222_71899_71899[/URL]
-Φ
therefore, one could argue that without those religions which many of us condem here we as a people would be nothing more than a bunch of animals seeking dominace for our particular race, and the destruction of all those who can't keep up. That is cold hard rationalism, its doing what you must for your own survival, and its the only thing that makes sense in a world where God does not exist. Why be good?, why help others?, why not kill mercilessly? if good and evil exist only in our minds, then whats the point?
Im not arguing for the rationale that we should do good because if not God will punish us, but rather that if one does not believe on some basic level that there is a sense to the universe, a will, a light, then all the ideals we hold are nothing more than constructs of the human mind. This is what I think the main point of the article was, that even if Christianity was not mentioned in LoTR, the motivation behind those who stood up against mordor and the forces of darkness must ultimately be religious in nature or else the whole story looses its meaning.
In the end religion to me means simply that you believe that there is a purpose to life, a path, and that doing the right thing actualy counts for something more that our own ego. Not because its nice to think so, but because there is actualy a force out there behind existence, and it compels us to seek to be better than we are.
Dont confuse poltical organizations that use religion to mold the minds of men, with the religion beyond us that sets men free.
[B]I'm wondering if you can clear up what you mean when you say your a Christian, but don't know if there's a God. Again, I'm not criticizing, just trying to see things through your glasses.:) [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey no worries! I do look through rose coloured spectacles sometimes though! Soz couldn't resist that! ;)
Anyway I meant what A2597 said........
[QUOTE][B](BTW, just so I don't offend anyone, I'm not saying that you are not Christain, rather that being born into a family of a certain faith doesn't mean you are automatically of that faith),[/B][/QUOTE]
I was christened when I was too young to remember so was my sister. It was something we was born into. And no I'm not a real Christian at all! Else I'd be going to church regularly as a true Christian should. Didn't mean to confuse. I know a few ppl that are born into it but aren't. My parents didn't go to church much when I was around, not sure they was before either. Guess they went every so often and its just phased out over the yrs.
I think when I have kids I will let them decide what they want to do when they're old enough.
:)