[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by E.T [/i]
[B]So your knowledge about geography doesn't convince me! [/B][/QUOTE]
You're right - I was thinking of Norway. Finland is part of the moratorium, and has been working against Japan on this "scientific harpooning" idea. It's nice that 70% of Finland is forest, must be great for the loggers who are a major exporter.
I'm kind of ashamed of myself. I fell for your topic change trick. Why don't you reply to the topic, or better yet, worry about what's going on in Finland first. [URL=http://www.seppo.net/energia/lipponenbellona.jpg]Political Cartoon[/URL] [URL=http://www.seppo.net/forest.html]Political Cartoon #2[/URL]
[quote]
Logic Sequence:
i'm always an ass to A# i don't like him, nor do i like most republican scum
[/quote]
K, cool. So it wasn't my imagination. :)
I find it interesting that you don't like me as a person based on my views as a conservative, rather then as myself as an individual.
I don't like your ideas as a liberal extreamist, but you as a person? Dunno, never met you.
If it seems that I always argue. Darned right, I do. And I'll keep arguing until I've been proven wrong. I've learned ALOT by arguing with knowledged people, and myself I find it one of the best ways to learn a subject because it itsn't lecturing, it's more hands on. Thats actually one of the reasons I wanted you to reply and correct me. Then I've check and see if what said was correct, and if so, voila, I learned something.
hmm...seems like a good time to make a quoteable here...
"Ignorence is spread by the witholding of information" or something like that...
ahem, moving on...
[quote]
Logic Sequence:
look up the word biggot, u're addressing the wrong person with it. and i'm only hateful towards republicans, they've done enough shit to ruin my life and those i care about, so i have a right to. arrogant?? look who's talking, ignorant? i think not. foolish? fortune favors the foolish. fed up with the petty bickering? YOU BET.
[/quote]
Ahh, the wonder of politics, each side thinks that everything the other is doing will lead to the downfall of the world and lead to personal tradegy.
Please, name one thing I have done to ruin your life? Be a conservative? Well, yes, I am, but my being a conservative has done nothing to harm you and yours. Myself, I don't look at Democrat or Republican. I'm actually concidering voting for Clark this coming election, based on many of his ideals.
Democrat or Republican makes no difference to me, liberal and conservative does however.
As for arrogant, well...yes, you are certainly coming off that way, sorry
Ignorent? we're all ignorent in different areas, but I doubt you are. Would be easier to tell if you actually replied to the statements rather then refuse to because I lack the understanding of what you have yet to say...
Foolish...Hey, never met you so I can't tell. Forums make that kinda hard to decide. I can say that I certainly LOVE being the fool though, using the term from way back, like a jester or clown. Keeps classes entertaining. :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by E.T [/i]
[B]Do I need to say more?
[i][b]"The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil."[/b]
-Albert Einstein[/i] [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Konrad [/i]
[B]You're right - I was thinking of Norway. Finland is part of the moratorium, and has been working against Japan on this "scientific harpooning" idea. It's nice that 70% of Finland is forest, must be great for the loggers who are a major exporter.
I'm kind of ashamed of myself. I fell for your topic change trick. Why don't you reply to the topic, or better yet, worry about what's going on in Finland first. [URL=http://www.seppo.net/energia/lipponenbellona.jpg]Political Cartoon[/URL] [URL=http://www.seppo.net/forest.html]Political Cartoon #2[/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]
Whaling... *snigger*
And there's not much to be worried about. That new power plant will be very highly secure. I'm rather worried about those three old graphite reactors in Sosnovyi Bor, Russia, near Gulf of Finland.
What comes to Finnish forestry, it has always been very thorough and taking care of Finnish forests is a part of natural course of life. If trees wont be cut down and let to regenerate, they will eventually rotten and more damage to environment will occur.
Well, I am not a biologest, but form what I know letting trees rot helps the environment far more than hinders it. It returns nutrients to the soil, and often is the nursing log for new trees.
(and the guy who makes the real point is quietly ignored, told to shut up or get stuffed)
"Stow it" is hardly a rebuttal.
And Tyvar mate... you didnt really address what I said either. Good to see you fired up tho, must admit...
you do realise though that someone with as much idealism as you do will not last in politics period.. let alone US politics...
There has never been, (by psychological profile), any US president who is a true idealist. They've all be pragmatic, very 'political' animals... which by default means they've done alot of compromising to get into the seat of power. An idealist wont, therefore they always drop out of the race 'on principile'.
Unless you are willing to make large compromises in your beliefs, suck alot of dick... dont run for office, certainly not unless the snow starts falling thickly in Hell and theres a change in the way politics is done.
And when you visit my house Tyvar... spread against the wall... I'll pat you down, remove your sidearm, take your fingerprints and take a copy of your passport...and I'll ask you very flatly how long you will be staying and what your business is...you can never be too careful :rolleyes:
Border protection is one thing, the Berlin Wall and its ilk is another. Put it this way...the guys at LAX with the M-16's...how much removed from East German border guards of the Soviet era are they ? I'd hate to see what happened if someone freaked out, smashed a window/jumped a checkpoint and ran...
"He was wearing a turban and he ran... and he shouted some shit... so I shot him... I didn't know he was Indian... I didn't know he was a Sikh..Seeker... whatever the hell you call his religion..." from GI JOE at LAX
The paradigm shift between asking questions first.. or just shooting...
thats the killah.
Once you become 'pro-active', rather than 're-active' in terms of acts of warfare... you're no better than the guys who started it. If you presume your guests are all dynamite belted devils... you've lost your way...
...the US surely has.
~~~~
Just because the majority of us are currently selfish does not mean we have to remain so...
...just remember our resident 'Republican scum' donated a largish proportion of PC guts to JackN...even a Repulican can be generous and philanthophic. :)
If you really want to change the world, there's one simple concept you need to absorb. A matter or re-arrangement of priorities.
In this life there is :
family
community
place
money
And thats the order everyone should look at them in. Look after your own, look after the people who live close to you, either physically or digitally. Look after your environment in broad terms. Then, and only then, when all the above considerations have been made should you look at how much it 'costs' in terms of money. Money is innately evil, it creates division, concentrations of power and domination. It is no longer a fair system of trade and barter, a man's work, his posessions, his crops and products are not of the same value in terms of 'hard currency' and yet... one grain of rice is as much the same as another 5000 miles away. A mans labour is the same, his muscles and mind ache just like that of someone beyond another border, and yet... his hard currency value is markedly different. Why ?
Because one group of men is ruthless, driven and aggressive and not keen on taking part in the world around him unless 'theres something in it for me' ?
Shift what you value.... and money is worthless. When money is worth little...the USA is as powerless as a newborn. (I'm sure a couple million US servicemen will disagree... until they realise that what they do does not make wheat rise from the ground, or create shelter for others... and no-one wants a slice of thier paycheck for food and they go to bed hungry with thier rifle, or they kill someone for a loaf...)
The meek shall inherit the earth.
To my mind... thats the day the selfless rise up against the selfish, the arrogant, the insular, the hoarders and misers.
The USA is basically the larger proportion of those people.
(remember folks I'm talking in general terms, there are plenty of good Americans, you are just vastly outnumbered...)
Hey SB Sorry man didnt read your posts to throughly I was more interested in jumping on logic sequence and a fairly narrow set of arguments.
my interest in politics is soley as functionary/paper pusher, no way in hell am I going for elected office!!!
As for your conversation about airports, Ive never been to france, but in photos from my friends trip to paris two years ago you could see there were gendarmire standing around with MAT-49s, europe is already like this, just quieter about it and this was even before september 11th.
As for coming into your country and home, it IS your country and home, it is your perogative.
And as for your last point, most of the combat power of the us military, Were talking 75% of people in the combat arms, infantry, armor, artillery are from small farming towns SB, they serve their hitch and go home to do what people in small farming towns do.
Frankly I do refute your points, we got where we were by hard work, we didnt become a net importer of oil till WWII and after, we didnt become a net importer of raw materials in general till then either, and if we changed how we did things here again, we could stop being a net importer of those things. Frankly if we went in the direction I would like the nation go in you would see us changing focus dramiticly, then again, you would also see us go insular again and pretty much leave the world to its own devices. no GATT, no WTO, and more protectionsit trade position.. our future is in space and thats where our attention should be, europe cand do what ever it wants and the middle east can blow itself up.
The world isnt going to defeat us SB, we will defeat ourselves. Rome, the Byzanties, their own people gave up, refused to fight.
The US isnt at that point yet.
Lastly even when the US falls as hegemon, you will just see a new hegemon arise SB, its the nature of things
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by croxis [/i]
[B]Well, I am not a biologest, but form what I know letting trees rot helps the environment far more than hinders it. It returns nutrients to the soil, and often is the nursing log for new trees. [/B][/QUOTE] Yes, but if whole forest is left untouched (as Greenpeace demands) and let rot it only consumes oxygen and gives nothing valuable in return. Nowadays clear fellings are prohibited to ensure that nutrients return to the soil and forest grows back.
The latest quite hilarious statement of a Greenpeace official in Germany was about helping to save the Finnish [b]rain forests[/b]... doesn't boost their credibility, does it?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]Rome, the Byzanties, their own people gave up, refused to fight. [/B][/QUOTE]
The last Byzantine Emperor died sword-in-hand defending the walls of Constantinople. If anything, the Byzantine empire was allowed to fall by the Catholic Church just because the Byzantines were of the Orthodox faith.
The Pope could launch Crusades against Islam, but when it comes to helping out fellow Christians with a slightly different belief complex, oh no... :rolleyes:
I guess you people did'nt understand the HSS thing.
a) It was Libereal Proganda.
b)It was ment to be more of a joke.
c)The picture was refuring that the Homeland Security is an organiszation Simluar to the SS and the Red Guard, etc, etc.
d) I had relatives probably killed by both(SS and Red Guard).
And about the Crusades....
There were 7 in all. only one was about "Religion". The other where about trade disputes and such. And the Christians Lost all of them but the first one.
heh...well, the Arabs had a slight advantage, as most of the people on the "christains" side were pitchfork carrying farmers and such.
On the plus side, we have the crusades to thank for how the world turned out...like, bringing us out of the dark ages...
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Weren't the crusades towards the end of the dark ages?
One should also consider why they are called "dark": because we don't know as much about them as other times due to the lack of good record keeping after the fall of the roman empire.
The thing is, the Arabs never HAD a dark age, they continued to advance after the fall of Rome. So when the Crusades happened, it re-established the link between Europe and the Arab nations, where monks/other intellectuals could go and learn, and bring back the knowledge. Such as the Arabic numbering system....
Just TRY writing binary with Roman Numerals! :) hehehe..oh oh! Or how about the concept of "0"...totally new to Europe.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rogue Trader [/i]
[B]you guys ever hear about that theory that the dark ages were caused by a meteor hitting the earth? [/B][/QUOTE]
Theories come and go. I haven't heard about that one, but global effects of a meteorite hit that size would be more disastrous than there is evidence... the impact itself would have made quite large crater. But it is possible, if it took this long to find that crater from Siberia or somewhere else.
I would say that if there was a long cold season, it was caused by lower quantities of carbon dioxide in atmosphere or one big vulcanic eruption releasing massive amounts of dust that blocked sunlight. The latter propably would've been noticed at least by the Chinese scientists and they would have wrote it down.
it was caused by the collapse of the Roman empire. Germanic tribes bascally took over, and were quite far behind the Romans...
I mean, think for a moment if America, Europe, China, Russia, Japan, all the major civalizations were to disapear, overnight. The world would be in an upheaval that would last a long time, and at this date the world as a whole is pretty educated. Back then it would, and did, set the planet back hundreds of years.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]The thing is, the Arabs never HAD a dark age, they continued to advance after the fall of Rome. So when the Crusades happened, it re-established the link between Europe and the Arab nations, where monks/other intellectuals could go and learn, and bring back the knowledge. Such as the Arabic numbering system....
Just TRY writing binary with Roman Numerals! :) hehehe..oh oh! Or how about the concept of "0"...totally new to Europe. [/B][/QUOTE]
Sigh, not quite, while rome fell not all of the civilization did, the Byzantines and greeks held out for quite a while, and progress and civilization was maintained there (Well till the turks showed up) the ARABS had alot of geniouses and mathamaticians and such, but over all their culture was in decline by the 1400's and the area was being dominated by TURKIC peoples (not the same damnit!) who tried to keep pace with europe, but eventualy they to collapsed during the 18th century.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]and progress and civilization was maintained there (Well till the turks showed up) [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, they kinda ruined it for everybody. ;)
I still maintain that Europe would be a lot different today if the Byzantine Empire had withstood the onslaught of the Turks, and the Catholic west had actually pursued an ecumumenical understanding with them.
As Tyvar said, the Turks and the Arabs were two different peoples; the former who wanted to build an empire, dominated and opressed the latter, who were largely nomadic. (This happened all the way up to the first world war with the final Arab uprising against the Turks supported by T.E. Lawrence.)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]heh...well, the Arabs had a slight advantage, as most of the people on the "christains" side were pitchfork carrying farmers and such.
On the plus side, we have the crusades to thank for how the world turned out...like, bringing us out of the dark ages... [/B][/QUOTE]
and what was funny alot of the pitchfork carrying farmers did'nt know where the middle east was;)
Actly the Crusades(Jihads) where consitered Attempted Geocide by the arabs.
[quote][i]Originally posted by [url]www.scraftghost.net[/url][/i]
[B]Although technology and world culture progressed rapidly throughout the twentieth century, their advancements paled in comparison to the seemingly reckless leaps that would follow. By the end of the twenty-first century, mankind had seen bold and unprecedented changes within the world. Radical new technologies were surfacing at incredible rates, offering increased access to advanced computers and informational databases to even the most destitute nations of Earth. In the wake of the eradication of Communism from the Eastern Nations, nuclear weapons quickly became available in abundance. The international power structure, once defined primarily by the acquisition of capital and military superiority, was blasted apart as third-world nations rose to challenge the economic and military might of the world's super-powers.
As the manipulative sciences of cybernetics, cloning and gene-splicing rose steadily into the public forum, militant humanist and hard-line religious groups challenged the rights of private interest corporations who profited from genetic experimentation. Multitudes of people were being augmented with cybernetic implants while others began to manifest slight physical mutations ranging from heightened senses to advanced telepathy. These dramatic changes within the human gene pool caused widespread panic amongst many of the fundamental humanist factions.
Technology continued to evolve and spread, and population rates soared. Near the end of the twentieth century, there were six billion people upon the earth. Within three hundred years, the population had grown to an estimated twenty-three billion. Pollution and a lack of natural resources and affordable fuels added to the fire as world leaders sought ways to stem the growth of their nation's inhabitants. Popular sentiment held that the world was plummeting towards an inevitable catastrophe as overpopulation and genetic alteration swept across the globe.
Meanwhile, as tensions rose around the world regarding the use and capitalization of cybernetics and genetic mutations, many core international economic systems folded in upon themselves and shut down. Horrific acts of terrorism and violence erupted between the corporate sector and the humanist factions, resulting in forced police actions across the globe. Irresponsible media coverage of these atrocious police actions spurred the already rampant civil chaos in many of the larger countries. Ultimately, the precarious balance of world power exploded into international pandemonium.
On November 22, 2229, the United Powers League (UPL) was founded. The UPL was to become the ultimate incarnation of the vision of a unified humanity held by the now defunct United Nations. This new order encompassed and controlled close to ninety-three percent of the earths population, failing only to bring order to a few volatile South American states. The UPL was founded upon the basis of 'enlightened socialism', but often resorted to harsh, fascist police actions to maintain the public order. With its control lasting for nearly eighty years, the UPL began to devise a rigid agenda that would unify the various cultures of humanity for all time. Great lengths were taken to eradicate the last vestiges of racial separatism, and the Unitariate Commissions banned many of the world's oldest religions. English was designated as the common tongue of the planet, replacing many ancient languages that were subsequently banned in their native countries.
Although religions were officially banned by the UPL, the organization held an almost zealous belief in the supposed divinity of mankind'. This quasi-religious dogma called for the immediate eradication of any non-vital prosthetics or mutations amongst the pure-strain human gene pool. Hard-line UPL proponents and scholars argued that genetic alteration, cyber technology, and the use of psychoactive drugs all led to the eventual degeneration of the human species. The UPL leaders formulated a bold plan that would assure that humanity would persevere, unscathed by the tempting corruption of radical technologies.
Like the bloody Inquisitions that devastated Europe eight hundred years before, the UPL set in motion one of the harshest agendas ever conceived by humanity: Project Purification. This genocidal crusade was the Government's final solution to the matter of cleansing humanity of its more degenerate facets. UPL troops scoured every nation on earth, rounding up dissidents, hackers, synthetics, the cybernetically enhanced, tech-pirates, and criminals of every kind. This planet wide culling resulted in the eradication of nearly 400 Million people. The world-media, now under the strict control of the UPL, downplayed the horrific violence and kept the general populace of earth unaware of the scope of the atrocities being committed.
Despite their heinous acts, the UPL succeeded in advancing many core technologies. Fields of research that had lain dormant for decades were opened again under UPL control. The Space Exploration programs of the mid-twentieth century, abandoned by the American and Russian governments due to drastically reduced budgets and incessant political sabotage, became the basis for a new era of exploration for humanity. The coupling of cryogenic hibernation with warp-drive technology resulted in the ability to travel amongst the stars. Within the span of forty years the UPL founded colonies upon the moon and many other planets within the Terran solar system.
During this period, a brilliant young scientist named Doran Routhe made plans to consolidate his power within the UPL. Uninvolved with the vulgarities of Project Purification, Routhe was obsessed with founding colonies upon the world beyond the Terran Sector. Routhe was convinced that the discovery of new minerals and alternate fuel sources on the outlying worlds would make him one of the most influential men on earth. Through his political connections and personal fortune, Routhe was able to secure thousands of UPL prisoners to use as guinea pigs for his secret plans.
The prisoners, slated for mass execution under the edict of Project Purification, were transported to Routhe's private laboratories. Routhe, planning on sending the prisoners off to colonize the outlying worlds, had his science crews prep nearly 56,000 people for long-term cryogenic hibernation. Cataloguing the various mutations and cybernetic enhancements of the prisoners, Routhe input all of the data into a revolutionary supercomputer. This Artificial Tele-empathic Logistics Analysis System, known as ATLAS then processed this genetic information and was able to predict which of the prisoners should be able to survive the trial to come. Only 40,000 of the prisoners were deemed viable to survive the rigorous conditions. Those 40,000 were then loaded onto four gargantuan, automated deep-space supercarriers. As the prisoners were prepped for cryogenic 'cold-sleep', the ships were loaded with enough supplies, rations and hardware to aid them once they arrived at their scheduled destination. The navigation computer was then programmed with the co-ordinates of the outlying planet Gantris VI. All seemed in perfect preparation, but even Routhe could not have imagined that the prisoners would be launched to their almost certain deaths in the galactic rim.[/B] [/quote]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]Sigh, not quite, while rome fell not all of the civilization did, the Byzantines and greeks held out for quite a while, and progress and civilization was maintained there (Well till the turks showed up) the ARABS had alot of geniouses and mathamaticians and such, but over all their culture was in decline by the 1400's and the area was being dominated by TURKIC peoples (not the same damnit!) who tried to keep pace with europe, but eventualy they to collapsed during the 18th century. [/B][/QUOTE]
Whew...that one threy me for a loop...
the way that was worded there, it looks like you were saying the Byzantine and Greek cultures came after/were around during the fall of the Roman empire. :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]Whew...that one threy me for a loop...
the way that was worded there, it looks like you were saying the Byzantine and Greek cultures came after/were around during the fall of the Roman empire. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
The Byzantine Empire, was basically the eastern half of the Roman empire, and came into being when Rome fell. Most of the western European half eventually became the Catholic "Holy Roman Empire", dominated by the Germanic peoples.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Morden279 [/i]
[B]The Byzantine Empire, was basically the eastern half of the Roman empire, and came into being when Rome fell. Most of the western European half eventually became the Catholic "Holy Roman Empire", dominated by the Germanic peoples.
Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]
The Holy Roman empire did'nt last very long, only a few decades.
Comments
[B]So your knowledge about geography doesn't convince me! [/B][/QUOTE]
You're right - I was thinking of Norway. Finland is part of the moratorium, and has been working against Japan on this "scientific harpooning" idea. It's nice that 70% of Finland is forest, must be great for the loggers who are a major exporter.
I'm kind of ashamed of myself. I fell for your topic change trick. Why don't you reply to the topic, or better yet, worry about what's going on in Finland first. [URL=http://www.seppo.net/energia/lipponenbellona.jpg]Political Cartoon[/URL] [URL=http://www.seppo.net/forest.html]Political Cartoon #2[/URL]
Logic Sequence:
i'm always an ass to A# i don't like him, nor do i like most republican scum
[/quote]
K, cool. So it wasn't my imagination. :)
I find it interesting that you don't like me as a person based on my views as a conservative, rather then as myself as an individual.
I don't like your ideas as a liberal extreamist, but you as a person? Dunno, never met you.
If it seems that I always argue. Darned right, I do. And I'll keep arguing until I've been proven wrong. I've learned ALOT by arguing with knowledged people, and myself I find it one of the best ways to learn a subject because it itsn't lecturing, it's more hands on. Thats actually one of the reasons I wanted you to reply and correct me. Then I've check and see if what said was correct, and if so, voila, I learned something.
hmm...seems like a good time to make a quoteable here...
"Ignorence is spread by the witholding of information" or something like that...
ahem, moving on...
[quote]
Logic Sequence:
look up the word biggot, u're addressing the wrong person with it. and i'm only hateful towards republicans, they've done enough shit to ruin my life and those i care about, so i have a right to. arrogant?? look who's talking, ignorant? i think not. foolish? fortune favors the foolish. fed up with the petty bickering? YOU BET.
[/quote]
Ahh, the wonder of politics, each side thinks that everything the other is doing will lead to the downfall of the world and lead to personal tradegy.
Please, name one thing I have done to ruin your life? Be a conservative? Well, yes, I am, but my being a conservative has done nothing to harm you and yours. Myself, I don't look at Democrat or Republican. I'm actually concidering voting for Clark this coming election, based on many of his ideals.
Democrat or Republican makes no difference to me, liberal and conservative does however.
As for arrogant, well...yes, you are certainly coming off that way, sorry
Ignorent? we're all ignorent in different areas, but I doubt you are. Would be easier to tell if you actually replied to the statements rather then refuse to because I lack the understanding of what you have yet to say...
Foolish...Hey, never met you so I can't tell. Forums make that kinda hard to decide. I can say that I certainly LOVE being the fool though, using the term from way back, like a jester or clown. Keeps classes entertaining. :D
[B]' (islam, christianity, gods of all shapes and colours), [/B][/QUOTE]
whow...that raises an interesting point...
do gods have colors associated with them? Sure, in the Bible man was created in God's own image...but color?
hmmm... what color is [i]your[/i] God?!?
:D ;) :) :D
A2597- just trying to lighten things up a little. :D
Right eye, green.
Both eyes, you die ;)
Talk about thread hijacking ;)
god, god has no damned color, he's way beyond that.
[B]
god, god has no damned color, he's way beyond that. [/B][/QUOTE]
kinda my point. :D :) :D
All my attempts to lighten the mood in any forum always seem to fail... *sigh*
shizzle, its waking up at 6 am thats doing it! its destroying my sense of humor!
[B]Do I need to say more?
[i][b]"The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil."[/b]
-Albert Einstein[/i] [/B][/QUOTE]
Indeed :D
[B]You're right - I was thinking of Norway. Finland is part of the moratorium, and has been working against Japan on this "scientific harpooning" idea. It's nice that 70% of Finland is forest, must be great for the loggers who are a major exporter.
I'm kind of ashamed of myself. I fell for your topic change trick. Why don't you reply to the topic, or better yet, worry about what's going on in Finland first. [URL=http://www.seppo.net/energia/lipponenbellona.jpg]Political Cartoon[/URL] [URL=http://www.seppo.net/forest.html]Political Cartoon #2[/URL] [/B][/QUOTE]
Whaling... *snigger*
And there's not much to be worried about. That new power plant will be very highly secure. I'm rather worried about those three old graphite reactors in Sosnovyi Bor, Russia, near Gulf of Finland.
What comes to Finnish forestry, it has always been very thorough and taking care of Finnish forests is a part of natural course of life. If trees wont be cut down and let to regenerate, they will eventually rotten and more damage to environment will occur.
"Stow it" is hardly a rebuttal.
And Tyvar mate... you didnt really address what I said either. Good to see you fired up tho, must admit...
you do realise though that someone with as much idealism as you do will not last in politics period.. let alone US politics...
There has never been, (by psychological profile), any US president who is a true idealist. They've all be pragmatic, very 'political' animals... which by default means they've done alot of compromising to get into the seat of power. An idealist wont, therefore they always drop out of the race 'on principile'.
Unless you are willing to make large compromises in your beliefs, suck alot of dick... dont run for office, certainly not unless the snow starts falling thickly in Hell and theres a change in the way politics is done.
And when you visit my house Tyvar... spread against the wall... I'll pat you down, remove your sidearm, take your fingerprints and take a copy of your passport...and I'll ask you very flatly how long you will be staying and what your business is...you can never be too careful :rolleyes:
Border protection is one thing, the Berlin Wall and its ilk is another. Put it this way...the guys at LAX with the M-16's...how much removed from East German border guards of the Soviet era are they ? I'd hate to see what happened if someone freaked out, smashed a window/jumped a checkpoint and ran...
"He was wearing a turban and he ran... and he shouted some shit... so I shot him... I didn't know he was Indian... I didn't know he was a Sikh..Seeker... whatever the hell you call his religion..." from GI JOE at LAX
The paradigm shift between asking questions first.. or just shooting...
thats the killah.
Once you become 'pro-active', rather than 're-active' in terms of acts of warfare... you're no better than the guys who started it. If you presume your guests are all dynamite belted devils... you've lost your way...
...the US surely has.
~~~~
Just because the majority of us are currently selfish does not mean we have to remain so...
...just remember our resident 'Republican scum' donated a largish proportion of PC guts to JackN...even a Repulican can be generous and philanthophic. :)
If you really want to change the world, there's one simple concept you need to absorb. A matter or re-arrangement of priorities.
In this life there is :
family
community
place
money
And thats the order everyone should look at them in. Look after your own, look after the people who live close to you, either physically or digitally. Look after your environment in broad terms. Then, and only then, when all the above considerations have been made should you look at how much it 'costs' in terms of money. Money is innately evil, it creates division, concentrations of power and domination. It is no longer a fair system of trade and barter, a man's work, his posessions, his crops and products are not of the same value in terms of 'hard currency' and yet... one grain of rice is as much the same as another 5000 miles away. A mans labour is the same, his muscles and mind ache just like that of someone beyond another border, and yet... his hard currency value is markedly different. Why ?
Because one group of men is ruthless, driven and aggressive and not keen on taking part in the world around him unless 'theres something in it for me' ?
Shift what you value.... and money is worthless. When money is worth little...the USA is as powerless as a newborn. (I'm sure a couple million US servicemen will disagree... until they realise that what they do does not make wheat rise from the ground, or create shelter for others... and no-one wants a slice of thier paycheck for food and they go to bed hungry with thier rifle, or they kill someone for a loaf...)
The meek shall inherit the earth.
To my mind... thats the day the selfless rise up against the selfish, the arrogant, the insular, the hoarders and misers.
The USA is basically the larger proportion of those people.
(remember folks I'm talking in general terms, there are plenty of good Americans, you are just vastly outnumbered...)
Anyone care to refute the above ?
I've yet to find anyone who can.
my interest in politics is soley as functionary/paper pusher, no way in hell am I going for elected office!!!
As for your conversation about airports, Ive never been to france, but in photos from my friends trip to paris two years ago you could see there were gendarmire standing around with MAT-49s, europe is already like this, just quieter about it and this was even before september 11th.
As for coming into your country and home, it IS your country and home, it is your perogative.
And as for your last point, most of the combat power of the us military, Were talking 75% of people in the combat arms, infantry, armor, artillery are from small farming towns SB, they serve their hitch and go home to do what people in small farming towns do.
Frankly I do refute your points, we got where we were by hard work, we didnt become a net importer of oil till WWII and after, we didnt become a net importer of raw materials in general till then either, and if we changed how we did things here again, we could stop being a net importer of those things. Frankly if we went in the direction I would like the nation go in you would see us changing focus dramiticly, then again, you would also see us go insular again and pretty much leave the world to its own devices. no GATT, no WTO, and more protectionsit trade position.. our future is in space and thats where our attention should be, europe cand do what ever it wants and the middle east can blow itself up.
The world isnt going to defeat us SB, we will defeat ourselves. Rome, the Byzanties, their own people gave up, refused to fight.
The US isnt at that point yet.
Lastly even when the US falls as hegemon, you will just see a new hegemon arise SB, its the nature of things
[B]Well, I am not a biologest, but form what I know letting trees rot helps the environment far more than hinders it. It returns nutrients to the soil, and often is the nursing log for new trees. [/B][/QUOTE] Yes, but if whole forest is left untouched (as Greenpeace demands) and let rot it only consumes oxygen and gives nothing valuable in return. Nowadays clear fellings are prohibited to ensure that nutrients return to the soil and forest grows back.
The latest quite hilarious statement of a Greenpeace official in Germany was about helping to save the Finnish [b]rain forests[/b]... doesn't boost their credibility, does it?
[B]Physical damage tends to be less far reaching than societal damage. [/B][/QUOTE]
Mmm, poorly worded on my part...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B][url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040106/ap_on_re_us/airport_security&cid=519&ncid=716[/url]
sigh... [/B][/QUOTE]
That, my friend, is the understatement of the millenium.
-R.
[B]Rome, the Byzanties, their own people gave up, refused to fight. [/B][/QUOTE]
The last Byzantine Emperor died sword-in-hand defending the walls of Constantinople. If anything, the Byzantine empire was allowed to fall by the Catholic Church just because the Byzantines were of the Orthodox faith.
The Pope could launch Crusades against Islam, but when it comes to helping out fellow Christians with a slightly different belief complex, oh no... :rolleyes:
Regards,
Morden
a) It was Libereal Proganda.
b)It was ment to be more of a joke.
c)The picture was refuring that the Homeland Security is an organiszation Simluar to the SS and the Red Guard, etc, etc.
d) I had relatives probably killed by both(SS and Red Guard).
And about the Crusades....
There were 7 in all. only one was about "Religion". The other where about trade disputes and such. And the Christians Lost all of them but the first one.
On the plus side, we have the crusades to thank for how the world turned out...like, bringing us out of the dark ages...
One should also consider why they are called "dark": because we don't know as much about them as other times due to the lack of good record keeping after the fall of the roman empire.
Just TRY writing binary with Roman Numerals! :) hehehe..oh oh! Or how about the concept of "0"...totally new to Europe.
[B]you guys ever hear about that theory that the dark ages were caused by a meteor hitting the earth? [/B][/QUOTE]
Theories come and go. I haven't heard about that one, but global effects of a meteorite hit that size would be more disastrous than there is evidence... the impact itself would have made quite large crater. But it is possible, if it took this long to find that crater from Siberia or somewhere else.
I would say that if there was a long cold season, it was caused by lower quantities of carbon dioxide in atmosphere or one big vulcanic eruption releasing massive amounts of dust that blocked sunlight. The latter propably would've been noticed at least by the Chinese scientists and they would have wrote it down.
I mean, think for a moment if America, Europe, China, Russia, Japan, all the major civalizations were to disapear, overnight. The world would be in an upheaval that would last a long time, and at this date the world as a whole is pretty educated. Back then it would, and did, set the planet back hundreds of years.
[B]The thing is, the Arabs never HAD a dark age, they continued to advance after the fall of Rome. So when the Crusades happened, it re-established the link between Europe and the Arab nations, where monks/other intellectuals could go and learn, and bring back the knowledge. Such as the Arabic numbering system....
Just TRY writing binary with Roman Numerals! :) hehehe..oh oh! Or how about the concept of "0"...totally new to Europe. [/B][/QUOTE]
Sigh, not quite, while rome fell not all of the civilization did, the Byzantines and greeks held out for quite a while, and progress and civilization was maintained there (Well till the turks showed up) the ARABS had alot of geniouses and mathamaticians and such, but over all their culture was in decline by the 1400's and the area was being dominated by TURKIC peoples (not the same damnit!) who tried to keep pace with europe, but eventualy they to collapsed during the 18th century.
[B]and progress and civilization was maintained there (Well till the turks showed up) [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, they kinda ruined it for everybody. ;)
I still maintain that Europe would be a lot different today if the Byzantine Empire had withstood the onslaught of the Turks, and the Catholic west had actually pursued an ecumumenical understanding with them.
As Tyvar said, the Turks and the Arabs were two different peoples; the former who wanted to build an empire, dominated and opressed the latter, who were largely nomadic. (This happened all the way up to the first world war with the final Arab uprising against the Turks supported by T.E. Lawrence.)
Regards,
Morden
[B]heh...well, the Arabs had a slight advantage, as most of the people on the "christains" side were pitchfork carrying farmers and such.
On the plus side, we have the crusades to thank for how the world turned out...like, bringing us out of the dark ages... [/B][/QUOTE]
and what was funny alot of the pitchfork carrying farmers did'nt know where the middle east was;)
Actly the Crusades(Jihads) where consitered Attempted Geocide by the arabs.
and the dark ages draged on after anyway.
[quote][i]Originally posted by [url]www.scraftghost.net[/url][/i]
[B]Although technology and world culture progressed rapidly throughout the twentieth century, their advancements paled in comparison to the seemingly reckless leaps that would follow. By the end of the twenty-first century, mankind had seen bold and unprecedented changes within the world. Radical new technologies were surfacing at incredible rates, offering increased access to advanced computers and informational databases to even the most destitute nations of Earth. In the wake of the eradication of Communism from the Eastern Nations, nuclear weapons quickly became available in abundance. The international power structure, once defined primarily by the acquisition of capital and military superiority, was blasted apart as third-world nations rose to challenge the economic and military might of the world's super-powers.
As the manipulative sciences of cybernetics, cloning and gene-splicing rose steadily into the public forum, militant humanist and hard-line religious groups challenged the rights of private interest corporations who profited from genetic experimentation. Multitudes of people were being augmented with cybernetic implants while others began to manifest slight physical mutations ranging from heightened senses to advanced telepathy. These dramatic changes within the human gene pool caused widespread panic amongst many of the fundamental humanist factions.
Technology continued to evolve and spread, and population rates soared. Near the end of the twentieth century, there were six billion people upon the earth. Within three hundred years, the population had grown to an estimated twenty-three billion. Pollution and a lack of natural resources and affordable fuels added to the fire as world leaders sought ways to stem the growth of their nation's inhabitants. Popular sentiment held that the world was plummeting towards an inevitable catastrophe as overpopulation and genetic alteration swept across the globe.
Meanwhile, as tensions rose around the world regarding the use and capitalization of cybernetics and genetic mutations, many core international economic systems folded in upon themselves and shut down. Horrific acts of terrorism and violence erupted between the corporate sector and the humanist factions, resulting in forced police actions across the globe. Irresponsible media coverage of these atrocious police actions spurred the already rampant civil chaos in many of the larger countries. Ultimately, the precarious balance of world power exploded into international pandemonium.
On November 22, 2229, the United Powers League (UPL) was founded. The UPL was to become the ultimate incarnation of the vision of a unified humanity held by the now defunct United Nations. This new order encompassed and controlled close to ninety-three percent of the earths population, failing only to bring order to a few volatile South American states. The UPL was founded upon the basis of 'enlightened socialism', but often resorted to harsh, fascist police actions to maintain the public order. With its control lasting for nearly eighty years, the UPL began to devise a rigid agenda that would unify the various cultures of humanity for all time. Great lengths were taken to eradicate the last vestiges of racial separatism, and the Unitariate Commissions banned many of the world's oldest religions. English was designated as the common tongue of the planet, replacing many ancient languages that were subsequently banned in their native countries.
Although religions were officially banned by the UPL, the organization held an almost zealous belief in the supposed divinity of mankind'. This quasi-religious dogma called for the immediate eradication of any non-vital prosthetics or mutations amongst the pure-strain human gene pool. Hard-line UPL proponents and scholars argued that genetic alteration, cyber technology, and the use of psychoactive drugs all led to the eventual degeneration of the human species. The UPL leaders formulated a bold plan that would assure that humanity would persevere, unscathed by the tempting corruption of radical technologies.
Like the bloody Inquisitions that devastated Europe eight hundred years before, the UPL set in motion one of the harshest agendas ever conceived by humanity: Project Purification. This genocidal crusade was the Government's final solution to the matter of cleansing humanity of its more degenerate facets. UPL troops scoured every nation on earth, rounding up dissidents, hackers, synthetics, the cybernetically enhanced, tech-pirates, and criminals of every kind. This planet wide culling resulted in the eradication of nearly 400 Million people. The world-media, now under the strict control of the UPL, downplayed the horrific violence and kept the general populace of earth unaware of the scope of the atrocities being committed.
Despite their heinous acts, the UPL succeeded in advancing many core technologies. Fields of research that had lain dormant for decades were opened again under UPL control. The Space Exploration programs of the mid-twentieth century, abandoned by the American and Russian governments due to drastically reduced budgets and incessant political sabotage, became the basis for a new era of exploration for humanity. The coupling of cryogenic hibernation with warp-drive technology resulted in the ability to travel amongst the stars. Within the span of forty years the UPL founded colonies upon the moon and many other planets within the Terran solar system.
During this period, a brilliant young scientist named Doran Routhe made plans to consolidate his power within the UPL. Uninvolved with the vulgarities of Project Purification, Routhe was obsessed with founding colonies upon the world beyond the Terran Sector. Routhe was convinced that the discovery of new minerals and alternate fuel sources on the outlying worlds would make him one of the most influential men on earth. Through his political connections and personal fortune, Routhe was able to secure thousands of UPL prisoners to use as guinea pigs for his secret plans.
The prisoners, slated for mass execution under the edict of Project Purification, were transported to Routhe's private laboratories. Routhe, planning on sending the prisoners off to colonize the outlying worlds, had his science crews prep nearly 56,000 people for long-term cryogenic hibernation. Cataloguing the various mutations and cybernetic enhancements of the prisoners, Routhe input all of the data into a revolutionary supercomputer. This Artificial Tele-empathic Logistics Analysis System, known as ATLAS then processed this genetic information and was able to predict which of the prisoners should be able to survive the trial to come. Only 40,000 of the prisoners were deemed viable to survive the rigorous conditions. Those 40,000 were then loaded onto four gargantuan, automated deep-space supercarriers. As the prisoners were prepped for cryogenic 'cold-sleep', the ships were loaded with enough supplies, rations and hardware to aid them once they arrived at their scheduled destination. The navigation computer was then programmed with the co-ordinates of the outlying planet Gantris VI. All seemed in perfect preparation, but even Routhe could not have imagined that the prisoners would be launched to their almost certain deaths in the galactic rim.[/B] [/quote]
THAT is the issue at hand.
[B]Sigh, not quite, while rome fell not all of the civilization did, the Byzantines and greeks held out for quite a while, and progress and civilization was maintained there (Well till the turks showed up) the ARABS had alot of geniouses and mathamaticians and such, but over all their culture was in decline by the 1400's and the area was being dominated by TURKIC peoples (not the same damnit!) who tried to keep pace with europe, but eventualy they to collapsed during the 18th century. [/B][/QUOTE]
Whew...that one threy me for a loop...
the way that was worded there, it looks like you were saying the Byzantine and Greek cultures came after/were around during the fall of the Roman empire. :D
[B]Whew...that one threy me for a loop...
the way that was worded there, it looks like you were saying the Byzantine and Greek cultures came after/were around during the fall of the Roman empire. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
The Byzantine Empire, was basically the eastern half of the Roman empire, and came into being when Rome fell. Most of the western European half eventually became the Catholic "Holy Roman Empire", dominated by the Germanic peoples.
Regards,
Morden
[B]The Byzantine Empire, was basically the eastern half of the Roman empire, and came into being when Rome fell. Most of the western European half eventually became the Catholic "Holy Roman Empire", dominated by the Germanic peoples.
Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]
The Holy Roman empire did'nt last very long, only a few decades.