and if you havent noticed, I dont direct it at anyone in particular...
this is a 'rage against the machine' scenario...
ethnicity ?
Isnt AU normally listed as a 'western country' ?
Wasnt atleast half the Matrix made in AU ?
I'm not for a moment claiming any superiority. Quite the opposite, what I dislike is my inability to influence the machine as it grinds out pus laden crap which I'm supposed to think is ambrosial.
The only direct critisism I've made of you guys is no-one as yet seems to have thought for themselves as to WHY the movie sucked... all very good to talk about the symptoms... its another thing to actually go looking for the disease.
And for ferks sake... I SAID I was using ADHD in a stereotypical 'label' fashion.
I also didn't say that the fight sequences in themselves werent ok... as far as fight sequences go. The fact they were used like double strength italian coffee to keep the 'low end' of the audience awake was the problem.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]The only direct critisism I've made of you guys is no-one as yet seems to have thought for themselves as to WHY the movie sucked... all very good to talk about the symptoms... its another thing to actually go looking for the disease.
[/B][/QUOTE]
You're being a dick. That's why the movie sucked.
The "disease" is irrelevant in discussing what people thought of the quality of the movie. Ghandi could have been behind everything, and it wouldn't (or shouldn't) make a difference in anyone's opinions either way, because the "symptoms" are still there. And no one is calling for anyone's crucifixion. Certainly not the W. Brothers, because, of course, they can do no wrong and everything is some executive's fault.
[QUOTE][b][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer[/i][/b]
Secondly... why the fuck do you HAVE to be able to understand the story to enjoy it ?[/quote]
Are you serious? Are you saying someone should be able to enjoy a movie without understanding the story? This is a bit confusing, considering you consider the action scenes to be "gratuitous." What else is there for people to enjoy if they shouldn't need to understand the story?
[quote]Why do you need to have everything explained to you down to the last detail ? Has anyone heard of the beauty of mystery ? Does anyone know what was in 'the briefcase' in Pulp Fiction ?[/quote]
Few people ask for explinations to everything. Just about everyone with "feeble little minds" usually don't care about everything being explained (they're probably the ones that don't need to understand the story to enjoy the movie).
Oh, and the contents in the briefcase don't matter because they, well, didn't matter.
[quote]Did you think that perhaps you're supposed to actually think for yourself? Make interpretations... add some of your thinking, your take on events ? The best stories require you to ad-lib yourself, flesh out the sketches the director has put in front of you.[/quote]
The opportunity and process of interpreting something one's self is not mutually exclusive with an artist making something in their work understandable enough to be accessable by people that don't wear berets and sip lattes during poetry readings at the hippest little coffee shop in town. (I'm not saying Reloaded wasn't accessable, because it was.)
By the way, I'm interested in knowing which "ad-lib yourself" stories are good.
[quote]Whats your problem with that prudes ? Hmmm ? Cant hack seeing someone actually doing some living ? Can't hack some rawness ? Doing some real living in the face of adversity ?[/quote]
The problem was that it was an overly long scene. Show people partying, but don't make it gratuitous. Or is fighting to stay alive the only thing that can ever be gratuitous.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]as soon as you realise that anything Holywood made is about nothing but money... the better...
Reloaded is just another sad case of dumbing down and 'commecialising' of a movie... I'll bet you a fuckload that movie did NOT come to the screen as the brothers intended.[/B][/QUOTE]
I wouldn't doubt it. If they had shortened some of the fight scenes and expanded more on the matrix itself, that alone would have made the movie a hell of alot better. As for the sex scene, I don't have a problem with it other than it was a bit too long for my tastes. 5 minutes of Keanu's ass is not something I want to see. (Keep in mind that I'm not a fundie prude, and that I do alot of pr0n surfing. :D I just don't like Keanu Reeves.)
Anyone else notice that Zion was almost all Black... while the leaders were almost all White? Where were the Hispanics and Asians? Where were the whites in the crowd?
If I EVER hear that rave scene song in a dance club I'm running up and kicking the DJ's ass at very second. :mad: What a sad ploy to sell cds.
I didn't have a problem with the sex scene - however, the Zion orgy/dance was STUPID. Neo and Trinity going at it was kind of like the top gun sex scene and was the best way two average actors could show that they really cared for one another - though I would have liked to see as sheet over Neo's ass too. I did think the cake scene was --- every virgin computer nerds dream.
I wanted to see more about the key maker and the oracles body guard myself. They were the two most engaging characters in the whole damn thing. Agent Smith used to be my favorite but frankly there was to much/many of him.
If there are no rules in the Matrix then why are so many of the fight scene bad guy characters acting like it's the "real world?" Let's think outside the box a little and challenge Neo for crying out loud.
Also, if I hear one more of these Matrix Defense Insanity pleas in a murder case / Matrix religion crap I'm out of here. Hey NERDS computer hackers/programmers are not Gods GET A F***ING LIFE!
My final point is that all this pontification about wanting movies that work the mind and stretch the imagination is crap. Movies are all about fast food entertainment - Pick Up A [B][U]BOOK[/U][/B] Better yet write something yourself! The Matrix - even the first one - is simple entertainment.
[quote]Where were the Hispanics and Asians? Where were the whites in the crowd?
[/quote]
Ghost was Asian.
But I think you're missing the idea that there were so few Humans in Zion in the beginning, a lot of the minority races would meld together, and you'd start to see less and less distinction between people as they intermingled and produce successive generations of children.
not that that counts for much... skin tone schmin tone... there was certainly a fair bit of variety in the races portrayed... anyways...
alot of it could come down to perceptions...
you try and tell me the difference between a modern mexican and spaniard....
worlds apart but bloody close to the same thing.
~~~~
stories you have trouble grasping are excellent... weight training for the mind.
AND NO... understanding does not directly equate to satisfaction. fulfillment or happieness...
no-one understands the opposite sex... and yet we all enjoy thier company... :)
~~~~
the briefcase in Pulp Fiction was crucial to the story... and yet... no-one knew precisely what it was... it had gold and shiny contents, you knew it was somehow extremely valuable, but nobody knows what the ferk it was...
~~~~
sheeeet... in the Reloaded itself the elder is talking to Neo in the Engineering levels... he says (paraphrased)...
"that machine over there has something to do with our water purification system... I dont know precisely how it works but I know its important to our everyday lives."
Same with the actual story in the movie... I dont think anyone, perhaps even the Brothers themselves know precisely how the story goes. ( and by 'brothers' I mean the directors.. NOT Warner Bros incidentally).
MT dude... go do some serious hard core roleplaying, with paper and dice and you'll know what I mean about story and ad-libbing... then go write the best part of a novel and it will become clearer how fluid stories are, how nebulous they can be.
Otherwise... go watch doco's and autobiographies...
Ok, I haven't really been following your discussions here, I just need some assistance.
I was very very tired during the show so I didn't pick up everything that was said, especially the things said by the Architect.
Now, Neo is the 6th "Chosen One" in the sixth matrix? Why are there different version of matrix and how come the whole thing just replays over and over again?
Damn, I gotta see it again sometime...
I didn't see the movie at all, but my guess would be because, since it's an accurate representation of the end of the 21st century, eventually the folks inside would simulate a point where they started building those big bad machines, and the Powers That Be probably do not think it would be productive for their people to be plugged into pods where they thought they were people plugged into pods where they thought they were in the 20th century. And so on.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JackN [/i]
[B]I've come to the belief that everything is a program. Neo, Trinity, Morphius, Zion, et all...
There is no reality from the vantage point of the movies.
The Earth is probably a burnt out crust with massive computer systems just running and re running all these iterations of the programs.
Spooky... [/B][/QUOTE]
(I sent this to Jack via e-mail earlier, but I thought it applied to this thread as well...)
That's EXACTLY what I think. I think that they are in another matrix, and the "Agents" are programs written by the developer of an Artificial life program to weed out the elements of the AI matrix that might begin to think it is artificial. IMO.
Dig deeper? Ok.
Actually, it all turns out to be a movie about what goes on inside your PC when you're playing the SIMs. Screw up, and we'll BANISH YOU TO BLACK & WHITE LAND!!!!
mentions of these outdated malcontented programs being notoriously hard to destroy/erase/delete
the twins look like wraiths, nasty ghosts...
the oracle says that all the bad things written into the matrix code resemble the things of legend and myth, that they cause more grief than they prevent.
even the Agents are like some evil form of MIB.
all are iterations of control over the matrix and its inhabitants.
so perhaps in matixs' past the vampires where the agents of the matrix, serving as guardians, patrollers and policemen of the matrix...
so the machines keep trying to find a box to put us humans in that allows them to retain control. They've tried six times so far and failed to find a permanent solution, always finding thier lovely cybernetic gilded cage will not hold us.
All the while the collective unconscious of the populous is growing in strength and perception, the ability of humans to adapt to thier cage has given rise to those who can now gain positive and vigourous control over matrix
Humans ARE as agent Smith describes us... a virus. We can mutate, adapt find ways of escaping the 'penecillin' the machines keep dosing us with to try to contain us.
Ok, finally saw the movie yesterday, and while I have a few problems with it, it really does make one think.
It looks like most of the big twist really lies with what the Architect said. Of course, we also have to assume that he was actually telling Neo the total truth, but for the sake of simplicity, let's assume that he was.
So here's my take on the whole thing:
The Architect mentioned "choice" as being a problem with humans, so they use Zion as yet another method of control. The Machines have the Matrix set up, but they know that people are going to want to have a choice in things, or they won't accept it as reality. So when they get the random human born that can see that something's not quite right, they give him the "choice" to join the rebels in Zion. They then use the Oracle and the prophecies to create another level of control for the people in Zion. The Agents are also another tool of this control. They were created by the Machines to provide a convincing adversary for the human "rebels" to fight against, giving them the illusion that the humans are actually fighting for freedom, they're just running in place.
Of course, this brings up one of the bigger questions: is what we've been told is the "real" world actually real, or just another simulation? I'm still up in the air on this one. On one hand, if the Machines just made a second Matrix containing Zion, the rebels, sentinels, etc, then it'd be easy to maintain/destroy/rebuild as necessary, but they'd run the risk of humans somehow realizing that Zion and everything else is also an illusion. Not only that, but they'll be able to keep everybody plugged into the power plants until they die. It's a pretty efficient solution. It would also explain how Neo was able to disable the sentinels, and how Smith was able to take over that human's body. Smith claimed that Neo freed him, what if he can now see all the "levels" of the Matrix, and can also move between them as we saw? Also, keep in mind that Neo said that he "felt" the sentinels, which gave him the idea to disable them. We had spent the last two hours watching Neo "feel" and "see" things in the Matrix that others couldn't. It also might explain why Smith wanted to infect Neo. If he could inherit Neo's power, then he would become a god in both Matricies.
Now that I think about it, I'm thinking it's less likely that what we've seen as the "real" world so far is actually real. It seems a bit odd that Smith, a rogue program, would be able to jump into a real body the way he did based on the "rules" set out in the first movie. It just doesn't seem right. Also it makes Neo's new abilities against the Machines a hell of a lot harder to explain.
As for the whole rebooting of the Matrix thing, I'm still trying to suss that one out in my head, so I'll have to talk about that later :).
Saw the movie yesterday... Very cool. I really enjoyed it. I think that almost all of the qualms that people have will be resolved in Revolutions. I really look forward to it. I think that Reloaded will be such a better movie once we can all see Revolutions.
Neo's power, and that of Agent Smiths in the body of the poor rebel come from a fairly simple concept....
the ability of the machines to write code which works in wetware... ie Neo's brush with Mister Smith means he has picked up some code from Smith and vice versa, they've cross pollenated each other and created two hybrids, both with limited abilities in the others version of reality.
Smith is free... because he has climbed into a meatsack and he can walk around Zion as much as he likes...
Neo ferks with the machines in his own realm because he has a few 'command lines' borrowed from Smith, which he can shut down sentinels.
As far as both Neo and Smith Proxy being in a coma.... the human body isnt perhaps stable and powerful enough for the code to run well....
Neo's mind crashed, so did Smiths (probably after putting out a sentinel APB), so now we have to await a reboot...
If the movie has confused you, it has succeded. That may be its purpose, both from a marketing (you now need to see the 3rd one and give us more money) or an artistic (our vision of the matrix is big and complicated) point of view.
The "other levels of the matrix" isnt an idea I'd heard before.
It makes sense - if what the architect says is true - in that why would the humans not find ruins of the previous zion?
Imagining thats true, Neo recognised the matrix-link between himself and the sentinels in what was thought to be the real world. He shuts them down but its a new experience and drains him of energy totally.
Now the only way for the humans to become free is to escape ALL the levels of the matrix.
Evidence to support this may be interpreted from how easy it is to free people from the matrix. Machine discussion:
A: Sir, a human mind in the matrix is rebelling against the program.
B: Send some agent programs to convince it to stop.
A: It hasnt worked sir.
B: Well, just dump him into the sewers.
A: Could we not kill him THEN dump him into the sewers? Then the Zion rebels wouldnt be able to save him.
B: No comment...
While in the multi-level matrix, allowing them to be rescued puts them in matrix level 2, with stimulous continuing brain activity and producing power.
That assumes that the architect was being honest, but its a machine written program. They cannot be trusted.
Why can it not be so that:
The matrix is the core of the machine world now. The vast effort put into it and its programs has started to escape. Programs are escaping the matrix, leaking into the AI of every machine on the planet. To control the nature of the matrix is also to be able to control the machines outside it.
Here we find that just as neo learned how to fight agents in the first matrix, he can learn to control the machines outside. It will not be an easy task, even for the messiah, but he must learn, and do, or Zion will fall....
Another plausible story based on the facts at hand. The discussion of a movie outside the theatre is an important part of enjoying the story.
I have said before, to appreciate the story is to know it all. I wish to revise that to: To appreciate the story, is to know all its possibilities.
Although I hve not found it yet, I remember there being an interview with either Keanu or the Wachowski Brothers about this. I believe they said that a matrix-within-a-matrix was a cheap way out of the problem, and that such a solution was not the case.
Once I find the article in question, I'll post it up. :)
Knowing how humans love to live in their misery, I would find it ironic that people in the Matrix would be freed to survive in a second level (Zion) to suffer daily...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rick [/i]
[B]I still say that these movies do nothing more than document one man's experience with "The Sims" gone horribly wrong...
;)
-R. [/B][/QUOTE]
ROTFL! I'd like that version of the Sims! :D
Comments
and if you havent noticed, I dont direct it at anyone in particular...
this is a 'rage against the machine' scenario...
ethnicity ?
Isnt AU normally listed as a 'western country' ?
Wasnt atleast half the Matrix made in AU ?
I'm not for a moment claiming any superiority. Quite the opposite, what I dislike is my inability to influence the machine as it grinds out pus laden crap which I'm supposed to think is ambrosial.
The only direct critisism I've made of you guys is no-one as yet seems to have thought for themselves as to WHY the movie sucked... all very good to talk about the symptoms... its another thing to actually go looking for the disease.
And for ferks sake... I SAID I was using ADHD in a stereotypical 'label' fashion.
I also didn't say that the fight sequences in themselves werent ok... as far as fight sequences go. The fact they were used like double strength italian coffee to keep the 'low end' of the audience awake was the problem.
:D
;)
[B]The only direct critisism I've made of you guys is no-one as yet seems to have thought for themselves as to WHY the movie sucked... all very good to talk about the symptoms... its another thing to actually go looking for the disease.
[/B][/QUOTE]
You're being a dick. That's why the movie sucked.
The "disease" is irrelevant in discussing what people thought of the quality of the movie. Ghandi could have been behind everything, and it wouldn't (or shouldn't) make a difference in anyone's opinions either way, because the "symptoms" are still there. And no one is calling for anyone's crucifixion. Certainly not the W. Brothers, because, of course, they can do no wrong and everything is some executive's fault.
Secondly... why the fuck do you HAVE to be able to understand the story to enjoy it ?[/quote]
Are you serious? Are you saying someone should be able to enjoy a movie without understanding the story? This is a bit confusing, considering you consider the action scenes to be "gratuitous." What else is there for people to enjoy if they shouldn't need to understand the story?
[quote]Why do you need to have everything explained to you down to the last detail ? Has anyone heard of the beauty of mystery ? Does anyone know what was in 'the briefcase' in Pulp Fiction ?[/quote]
Few people ask for explinations to everything. Just about everyone with "feeble little minds" usually don't care about everything being explained (they're probably the ones that don't need to understand the story to enjoy the movie).
Oh, and the contents in the briefcase don't matter because they, well, didn't matter.
[quote]Did you think that perhaps you're supposed to actually think for yourself? Make interpretations... add some of your thinking, your take on events ? The best stories require you to ad-lib yourself, flesh out the sketches the director has put in front of you.[/quote]
The opportunity and process of interpreting something one's self is not mutually exclusive with an artist making something in their work understandable enough to be accessable by people that don't wear berets and sip lattes during poetry readings at the hippest little coffee shop in town. (I'm not saying Reloaded wasn't accessable, because it was.)
By the way, I'm interested in knowing which "ad-lib yourself" stories are good.
[quote]Whats your problem with that prudes ? Hmmm ? Cant hack seeing someone actually doing some living ? Can't hack some rawness ? Doing some real living in the face of adversity ?[/quote]
The problem was that it was an overly long scene. Show people partying, but don't make it gratuitous. Or is fighting to stay alive the only thing that can ever be gratuitous.
[B]as soon as you realise that anything Holywood made is about nothing but money... the better...
Reloaded is just another sad case of dumbing down and 'commecialising' of a movie... I'll bet you a fuckload that movie did NOT come to the screen as the brothers intended.[/B][/QUOTE]
I wouldn't doubt it. If they had shortened some of the fight scenes and expanded more on the matrix itself, that alone would have made the movie a hell of alot better. As for the sex scene, I don't have a problem with it other than it was a bit too long for my tastes. 5 minutes of Keanu's ass is not something I want to see. (Keep in mind that I'm not a fundie prude, and that I do alot of pr0n surfing. :D I just don't like Keanu Reeves.)
If I EVER hear that rave scene song in a dance club I'm running up and kicking the DJ's ass at very second. :mad: What a sad ploy to sell cds.
I didn't have a problem with the sex scene - however, the Zion orgy/dance was STUPID. Neo and Trinity going at it was kind of like the top gun sex scene and was the best way two average actors could show that they really cared for one another - though I would have liked to see as sheet over Neo's ass too. I did think the cake scene was --- every virgin computer nerds dream.
I wanted to see more about the key maker and the oracles body guard myself. They were the two most engaging characters in the whole damn thing. Agent Smith used to be my favorite but frankly there was to much/many of him.
If there are no rules in the Matrix then why are so many of the fight scene bad guy characters acting like it's the "real world?" Let's think outside the box a little and challenge Neo for crying out loud.
Also, if I hear one more of these Matrix Defense Insanity pleas in a murder case / Matrix religion crap I'm out of here. Hey NERDS computer hackers/programmers are not Gods GET A F***ING LIFE!
My final point is that all this pontification about wanting movies that work the mind and stretch the imagination is crap. Movies are all about fast food entertainment - Pick Up A [B][U]BOOK[/U][/B] Better yet write something yourself! The Matrix - even the first one - is simple entertainment.
[/quote]
Ghost was Asian.
But I think you're missing the idea that there were so few Humans in Zion in the beginning, a lot of the minority races would meld together, and you'd start to see less and less distinction between people as they intermingled and produce successive generations of children.
not that that counts for much... skin tone schmin tone... there was certainly a fair bit of variety in the races portrayed... anyways...
alot of it could come down to perceptions...
you try and tell me the difference between a modern mexican and spaniard....
worlds apart but bloody close to the same thing.
~~~~
stories you have trouble grasping are excellent... weight training for the mind.
AND NO... understanding does not directly equate to satisfaction. fulfillment or happieness...
no-one understands the opposite sex... and yet we all enjoy thier company... :)
~~~~
the briefcase in Pulp Fiction was crucial to the story... and yet... no-one knew precisely what it was... it had gold and shiny contents, you knew it was somehow extremely valuable, but nobody knows what the ferk it was...
~~~~
sheeeet... in the Reloaded itself the elder is talking to Neo in the Engineering levels... he says (paraphrased)...
"that machine over there has something to do with our water purification system... I dont know precisely how it works but I know its important to our everyday lives."
Same with the actual story in the movie... I dont think anyone, perhaps even the Brothers themselves know precisely how the story goes. ( and by 'brothers' I mean the directors.. NOT Warner Bros incidentally).
MT dude... go do some serious hard core roleplaying, with paper and dice and you'll know what I mean about story and ad-libbing... then go write the best part of a novel and it will become clearer how fluid stories are, how nebulous they can be.
Otherwise... go watch doco's and autobiographies...
I was very very tired during the show so I didn't pick up everything that was said, especially the things said by the Architect.
Now, Neo is the 6th "Chosen One" in the sixth matrix? Why are there different version of matrix and how come the whole thing just replays over and over again?
Damn, I gotta see it again sometime...
There is no reality from the vantage point of the movies.
The Earth is probably a burnt out crust with massive computer systems just running and re running all these iterations of the programs.
Spooky...
[B]...Does anyone know what was in 'the briefcase' in Pulp Fiction ?[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, yes....yes I do.
But then, I'm a vorlon, and am expected to know such things....
:)
-R.
PS: No, I'm not kidding, I do know what was in it.
[B]I've come to the belief that everything is a program. Neo, Trinity, Morphius, Zion, et all...
There is no reality from the vantage point of the movies.
The Earth is probably a burnt out crust with massive computer systems just running and re running all these iterations of the programs.
Spooky... [/B][/QUOTE]
(I sent this to Jack via e-mail earlier, but I thought it applied to this thread as well...)
That's EXACTLY what I think. I think that they are in another matrix, and the "Agents" are programs written by the developer of an Artificial life program to weed out the elements of the AI matrix that might begin to think it is artificial. IMO.
Dig deeper? Ok.
Actually, it all turns out to be a movie about what goes on inside your PC when you're playing the SIMs. Screw up, and we'll BANISH YOU TO BLACK & WHITE LAND!!!!
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Yes, I*am* evil, aren't I?
:-)
-R.
silver bullets... werewolves, wraiths, vampires...
mentions of these outdated malcontented programs being notoriously hard to destroy/erase/delete
the twins look like wraiths, nasty ghosts...
the oracle says that all the bad things written into the matrix code resemble the things of legend and myth, that they cause more grief than they prevent.
even the Agents are like some evil form of MIB.
all are iterations of control over the matrix and its inhabitants.
so perhaps in matixs' past the vampires where the agents of the matrix, serving as guardians, patrollers and policemen of the matrix...
so the machines keep trying to find a box to put us humans in that allows them to retain control. They've tried six times so far and failed to find a permanent solution, always finding thier lovely cybernetic gilded cage will not hold us.
All the while the collective unconscious of the populous is growing in strength and perception, the ability of humans to adapt to thier cage has given rise to those who can now gain positive and vigourous control over matrix
Humans ARE as agent Smith describes us... a virus. We can mutate, adapt find ways of escaping the 'penecillin' the machines keep dosing us with to try to contain us.
The age old struggle of chaos and order.
The machines love order.
The humans love chaos.
It looks like most of the big twist really lies with what the Architect said. Of course, we also have to assume that he was actually telling Neo the total truth, but for the sake of simplicity, let's assume that he was.
So here's my take on the whole thing:
The Architect mentioned "choice" as being a problem with humans, so they use Zion as yet another method of control. The Machines have the Matrix set up, but they know that people are going to want to have a choice in things, or they won't accept it as reality. So when they get the random human born that can see that something's not quite right, they give him the "choice" to join the rebels in Zion. They then use the Oracle and the prophecies to create another level of control for the people in Zion. The Agents are also another tool of this control. They were created by the Machines to provide a convincing adversary for the human "rebels" to fight against, giving them the illusion that the humans are actually fighting for freedom, they're just running in place.
Of course, this brings up one of the bigger questions: is what we've been told is the "real" world actually real, or just another simulation? I'm still up in the air on this one. On one hand, if the Machines just made a second Matrix containing Zion, the rebels, sentinels, etc, then it'd be easy to maintain/destroy/rebuild as necessary, but they'd run the risk of humans somehow realizing that Zion and everything else is also an illusion. Not only that, but they'll be able to keep everybody plugged into the power plants until they die. It's a pretty efficient solution. It would also explain how Neo was able to disable the sentinels, and how Smith was able to take over that human's body. Smith claimed that Neo freed him, what if he can now see all the "levels" of the Matrix, and can also move between them as we saw? Also, keep in mind that Neo said that he "felt" the sentinels, which gave him the idea to disable them. We had spent the last two hours watching Neo "feel" and "see" things in the Matrix that others couldn't. It also might explain why Smith wanted to infect Neo. If he could inherit Neo's power, then he would become a god in both Matricies.
Now that I think about it, I'm thinking it's less likely that what we've seen as the "real" world so far is actually real. It seems a bit odd that Smith, a rogue program, would be able to jump into a real body the way he did based on the "rules" set out in the first movie. It just doesn't seem right. Also it makes Neo's new abilities against the Machines a hell of a lot harder to explain.
As for the whole rebooting of the Matrix thing, I'm still trying to suss that one out in my head, so I'll have to talk about that later :).
Neo's power, and that of Agent Smiths in the body of the poor rebel come from a fairly simple concept....
the ability of the machines to write code which works in wetware... ie Neo's brush with Mister Smith means he has picked up some code from Smith and vice versa, they've cross pollenated each other and created two hybrids, both with limited abilities in the others version of reality.
Smith is free... because he has climbed into a meatsack and he can walk around Zion as much as he likes...
Neo ferks with the machines in his own realm because he has a few 'command lines' borrowed from Smith, which he can shut down sentinels.
As far as both Neo and Smith Proxy being in a coma.... the human body isnt perhaps stable and powerful enough for the code to run well....
Neo's mind crashed, so did Smiths (probably after putting out a sentinel APB), so now we have to await a reboot...
The "other levels of the matrix" isnt an idea I'd heard before.
It makes sense - if what the architect says is true - in that why would the humans not find ruins of the previous zion?
Imagining thats true, Neo recognised the matrix-link between himself and the sentinels in what was thought to be the real world. He shuts them down but its a new experience and drains him of energy totally.
Now the only way for the humans to become free is to escape ALL the levels of the matrix.
Evidence to support this may be interpreted from how easy it is to free people from the matrix. Machine discussion:
A: Sir, a human mind in the matrix is rebelling against the program.
B: Send some agent programs to convince it to stop.
A: It hasnt worked sir.
B: Well, just dump him into the sewers.
A: Could we not kill him THEN dump him into the sewers? Then the Zion rebels wouldnt be able to save him.
B: No comment...
While in the multi-level matrix, allowing them to be rescued puts them in matrix level 2, with stimulous continuing brain activity and producing power.
That assumes that the architect was being honest, but its a machine written program. They cannot be trusted.
Why can it not be so that:
The matrix is the core of the machine world now. The vast effort put into it and its programs has started to escape. Programs are escaping the matrix, leaking into the AI of every machine on the planet. To control the nature of the matrix is also to be able to control the machines outside it.
Here we find that just as neo learned how to fight agents in the first matrix, he can learn to control the machines outside. It will not be an easy task, even for the messiah, but he must learn, and do, or Zion will fall....
Another plausible story based on the facts at hand. The discussion of a movie outside the theatre is an important part of enjoying the story.
I have said before, to appreciate the story is to know it all. I wish to revise that to: To appreciate the story, is to know all its possibilities.
Once I find the article in question, I'll post it up. :)
;)
-R.
:D
[B]I still say that these movies do nothing more than document one man's experience with "The Sims" gone horribly wrong...
;)
-R. [/B][/QUOTE]
ROTFL! I'd like that version of the Sims! :D
I like that
To much hype.
Worship Rob Dougan. (And me)