[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by rhett [/i]
[B]That was an Iraqi missle that landed in an Iranian town. However, we have accidently shot down a British Tornado using our partiot missles. [/B][/QUOTE]
friendly fire incidents and accidents have caused more deaths (so far) than actual combat in the british forces.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WHY [/i]
[B]While I can understand your views (I'm stopping just short of saying I agree with it), explain exactly HOW this war is any more illegal or immoral than any other war in the past century ? [/B][/QUOTE]
we are talking about the current war - a war still can be stopped....
wars of the past can't bestopped now and there's no reverse button to correct faults of the past. we should have learned from the past what in fact everyone pretends but doesn't stop us from doing the same failures again and again.
shadow boxer got the whole coverage of how the world is working and A2597 you're wrong in assuming this war would stop support for suicide bombing it is in fact the guarantee for more terrorism...
in the beginning of the week there has been a demonstration of pupils from all schools and universities of Hamburg and some militant nerds abused this initiative to attack the US embassy and the police defending it.
authorities weren't able to distinguish 10 years old with the few 100s of assholes doing the same what US administration claims to be rightous.
they abused a peacefully meant message to justify their aggression.
intel reports ne foundings of terrorist cells planing attacks here in germany (who knows? - but it is reported from different scources) and although having peace here public installations resemble fortresses and ppl a lot of ppl get arrested.
we have a smaller issue of a George Bush here in Hamburg responsible for the cities security who really favours the US actions as he now has reasons to blame any muslim here being a potential terrorist...
and this naziasshole also has been voted - I just hope all this will show the people that this choice has been a fault and he won't get another 4 years doing his shit.
aggression always caused aggression and hatred on the other side - pretending ourselves to be the civilized doesn't stop us to be the same assholes we claim to sweep from this planet.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Re: Re: Re: Re: "Suspected" is the key word....
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by whitestar90 [/i]
[b]There should be a law banning any and all bombing of cities,no matter how good you think your weapons are.[/b][/quote]
And just where do you think dictators and the like would start hiding things like weapons factories, nuke silos, etc?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Konrad [/i]
[B]You are correct - It was Faylorn. My apologies to you. :( [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]And just where do you think dictators and the like would start hiding things like weapons factories, nuke silos, etc?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Case in point, US Marines captured a hospital that was being used by Iraqi soldiers as a staging area.
what do you expect? waiting with an T 72 without any modern targeting system with the awareness that the 120mm gun of the M1 easily will take'em out from a distance they even can't spot them?
ruthless leaders and fanatic parts of the iraqi troops and also despair realizing that being overwhelmed is only a question of one or another two weeks but in the end unstopable.
this may have been avoidable...
but if ppl chose to have their own way regardless the consequences...that's the price to pay.
Or like when Sadamm orders his men to take innocent civilians and mix them with his army- so that they can be used as human sheilds? Or like when they capture them, put them in buildings, and then write human sheilds on top of the buildings?
U.S. military finds nothing at suspected chemical facility in Najaf
Date: 2003-03-25 Posted By: Dan Sale Topics: Iraq : Chemical Weapons : War
U.S. military investigators have found no evidence that chemical weapons have been made in recent years at a suspect chemical plant secured by U.S. troops in southern Iraq, a senior defense official said Tuesday.
Region: Middle East
Read It At: WFTC UPN 29 (Mirrored Copy)
although being against this war I can imagine that Hussein has a trumpcard regarding weapons of heavy impact - if these are NBC arsenals or some kind of unconventional manouvers like using civilians as "shields" in whatever imaginable kind is another question but I really fear that there'll be some evil surprise in the end.
Congratulations, Messiah! You have successfully demonstrated to us that Saddam Hussein has absolutely no WMDs whatsoever! Not one spore of anthrax! Not one mL of mustard gas! Absolutely no Vx! Not only that, but Saddam Hussein is really a teddy bear! GW Bush is actually conducting a campaign of terror against a loveable, huggable bedtime friend for little children! He's reached out with nothing but compassion and respect, to his own population and to the populations of the world! Everyone, unite with me in defending Teddy Bear Saddam against the vile western devils!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Konrad [/i]
[B]You are correct - It was Faylorn. My apologies to you. :( [/B][/QUOTE]
Where is the old boy? I'm surprised he's missing the opportunity to spam us with ZMag articles about carpet bombings of Baghdad, how we're doing it for the oil, and other miscelaneous reports on how we're bringing suffering to the world.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Messiah [/i]
[B]U.S. military finds nothing at suspected chemical facility in Najaf
Date: 2003-03-25 Posted By: Dan Sale Topics: Iraq : Chemical Weapons : War
U.S. military investigators have found no evidence that chemical weapons have been made in recent years at a suspect chemical plant secured by U.S. troops in southern Iraq, a senior defense official said Tuesday.
Region: Middle East
Read It At: WFTC UPN 29 (Mirrored Copy)
Well? [/B][/QUOTE]
As I said earlier...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JackN[/i]
[B]The mere existence of the site implies INTENT to produce...[/B][/QUOTE]
And this occured during the 12 years he was supposed to be cooperating. Where do you think the funding to build it came from?
Let's not forget that the actual agents that might have been created years ago could be anywhere now...
oh boy how long will ppl here use this "uee you're a Saddam Fan" type of rants just because they've nothing clever to say as repeating what media is broadcasting every five minutes....
it's really annoying that ppl tend to repeating theirselves during the whole discussion and others feel like repeating their stuff.
....it's like a horde of elementary school children have been unleashed - let's get back to reasonable arguments as this is a too serious topic to behave childish.
not supporting Bush doesn't mean supporting Hussein - but maybe that's an impossible idea living in a world of black and white....
(yes that's an insult!!! start throwing things at me)
I guess the whole shocking thing to me about this (and I guess it shouldn't be) is how willing iraqi's are to use human shields etc.
This report (verified by AP press with video shots from the school) of Fedayeen troops using a local school house to store weapons in and to operate out of. Crap like outta show people just how much the Iraqi's don't care about their civilians.
Here's a link to audio I captured from this article (it's about 234kb) - to prove it: [url]http://www.third-space.net/iraq/school_gernades.wav[/url]
Hiding weapons and using a Hospitol to operate out of is deplorable.
I agree Hussein is a vile and disgusting dictator. I wish he had been ousted long ago. The fact that he uses these tactics does not excuse our rush to war over the objections of most of the rest of the world. If the UN had decided that his breaches of the resolutions were severe enough to warrant this use of force, I would be behind it. The fact that Shrub has decided pretty much unilaterally to invade Iraq while ignoring other dangers and telling all our other allies to fuck off at one time or another makes me very uneasy. We should be a moral leader, not a bully. We should lead the world because what we want is best, not because we have the muscle to make other nations do what we want.
Sadly, watching some of the overseas stuff going on against America almost makes me wish the US would return to a state of isolationism... they want to be rid of US influence, then let 'em have it. It's just a feeling I was having... would be interesting to see how it would work out.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vertigo_1 [/i]
[B]Congratulations, Messiah! You have successfully demonstrated to us that Saddam Hussein has absolutely no WMDs whatsoever! Not one spore of anthrax! Not one mL of mustard gas! Absolutely no Vx! Not only that, but Saddam Hussein is really a teddy bear! GW Bush is actually conducting a campaign of terror against a loveable, huggable bedtime friend for little children! He's reached out with nothing but compassion and respect, to his own population and to the populations of the world! Everyone, unite with me in defending Teddy Bear Saddam against the vile western devils! [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks?
Please grow up. I wont lift a finger to defend myself on this. You know better.
the reasonable people abroad (here) aren't against the US as a nation, they are asgainst the current policy.
The US always has been seen as a valuable partner and ppl want to return to the table with the US as they don't want to build up a revenue of a "cold war"- atmosphere (well at least no european state would have the power to fit a military counterpart).
some ppl here are sounding really pathetic and should stick to the fact that people here aren't babarians they're in fact a lot influenced by the americans and not everything american culture delivered is doomed here!!!
peopel haven't forgotten that what they have now was only possible through the US initiative and cooperation since WW II.
and people here in europe are able to distinguish the people and its political leaders (although some here say that's the same). unfortunately that seems to be the oposite in the arab world but Bush had been warned that this war would be another portion of oil into the fire.
liberating the iraqis will lead to a lot more effective mental enslavemrnt within this region and cause new potential of conflicts.
even if the ppl of iraq now get a chance to establish a functional economy and get better standards what is not said to happen that quick (see troubles in afghanistan) and troop presence has to remain there to prevent iran gets its grasp on the desolate area it will be seen as interference and occupation - at least the fundamentalists will develop this impression and abuse it to opose more violently and terrorism cells will spread in large numbers....
europe won't arise as europe is economically bound to the system of globalism and not interested in open hostility but the arab world is a unbearable political powder keg to be treated with caution.
europe and the us is like kiddies in the sandpit but western world and arab world is more like gangbang.
Some people may want to be human shields ,who knows, I do know that many western people went over there to be shields in buildings so the coalition would not bomb it.And I stand by what I said about not bombing cities,too bad if they put weapon factories etc there.Dont go in at all I say,some of you people seem to don't care how many people get killed,whether they are coalition soldiers,iraqi soldiers or civillian.Bush and Blair obviously dont care aslong as their adgendas are met.
Going back to the topic at hand- your own article is proff that Sadamm was breaking numerous UN mandates- he was producing chemical weapons a few years ago- still within the timeline where they were illegal. And again, as someone else said- just because one site turns up to not be producing NOW does not mean that there are no active sites. Or maybe he has finished producing all the chemical weapons he wanted (very highly unlikely- but a small posibility)- now he just has them stored waiting for an opportune moment (or waiting to sell it to terrorists- I'm sure they would love to get their hands on some of it).
Back to something that was posted a while ago (the first page said by Shadow Boxer), but I never had time to answer it:
[quote] One other thing bugs me too... if Bush and his Admin claim that Saddam has WMD then why the fuck would he put 200,000 US servicemen right in Saddams lap ?? If Saddam had an efficent, effective system of delivery and the actual weapon agents to kill lots of people, what President in his right mind would send large contingents of massed troops up to Saddams doorstep ?[/quote]
Well, it is pretty obvious that we are VERY afraid of a chemical weapons attack- why else would everyone have to have full chemical weapons suits with gas masks? Have you missed the reports of gas raid sirens going off everyday? Or have you missed how the civilians that live in Kuwait City are given gas masks incase of a chemical weapons attack? We are not going in unprepared- this is a very real fear that has been adressed as best we can.
One other thing from the same post:
[quote] For fucks sake I was advocating the dissolution of the US sometime back... splitting the US, North/South, East/West to try and reduce the bully boy arrogance that is natural to a country with a massive powerbase.[/quote]
And who the fuck gives you the right to tell us what to do? What kind of idea is that- splitting up a nation that has been united for almost 300 years (with the exception of the Civil War). Unless you live here, please dont suggest such a thing. And if you do- you seriously need to take a look at what you are advocating.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vertigo_1 [/i]
[B]Congratulations, Messiah! You have successfully demonstrated to us that Saddam Hussein has absolutely no WMDs whatsoever! Not one spore of anthrax! Not one mL of mustard gas! Absolutely no Vx! Not only that, but Saddam Hussein is really a teddy bear! GW Bush is actually conducting a campaign of terror against a loveable, huggable bedtime friend for little children! He's reached out with nothing but compassion and respect, to his own population and to the populations of the world! Everyone, unite with me in defending Teddy Bear Saddam against the vile western devils! [/B][/QUOTE]
Congratulations Vertigo_1! You have successfully demonstrated to us your childishness!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Solitaire [/i]
[B]there's a difference between clever sarcasm and just dumb sarcasm....but this is not a rethorical lecture session, isn't it? [/B][/QUOTE]
lol.... we've strayed sooo far from the original topic here at some points.... might as well bring in rethorical lessons....
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Solitaire [/i]
[B]there's a difference between clever sarcasm and just dumb sarcasm....but this is not a rethorical lecture session, isn't it? [/B][/QUOTE]
Notice my :D That means I was joking- i.e. not trying to make a subject of it
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Solitaire [/i]
[B]we are talking about the current war - a war still can be stopped....[/B][/QUOTE]
No it can't. The [i]second[/i] we dropped the first bomb, we were committed. Saddam Hussein is not the sort of man who will see the U.S. suddenly withdrawing and think [i]Thank Allah, that was close. In fact, I think it has taught me the error of my ways, seeking a place in history. [b]Sic Transit Gloria[/b] and all that. I think I'll retire and put in a democratically elected government.[/i]
No, Saddam would think [i]Ha ha! I have beaten the most powerful nation the world has ever seen! Again! I am the Greatest Man Ever! I can do anything! No man can stop me![/i]
This would, for a lot of reasons, be rather bad.
I want this war over, fast, with few deaths. Make no mistake, I didn't want this war, for any reason, economic, propoganidic, or humanitarian. The problems of others are not our concern.
the problems of others is a concern of the world community (that's a point I agree with all the Pros here) it's just the way of rushing to war and unilateralism ;the 48 nations supporting - well I think that speaks for itself how serious this can be taken - I only count the Brits the polish and the Aussis as serious supporters as they're the ones taking casualties. I dare to claim those are figures to imply a major support for the idea.
less people would be on the streets if this action had been confirmed by the UN after another last chance had been wasted by Hussein (what may have been a certainty), but people really have had the feeling everything had been done, but now the last initiative (which in fact could have been developed earlier - that's something the europeans have to be blamed for) remained unheard....
Yes, it is the beginning of my plan to take over the world!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)
But the UN would never have commited to force in Iraq. France would simply have vetoed.
As someone else said, it would be very interesting if the US did what alot of the world would like- just back out and go to a state of pre-20s isolationalism. Drop out of the UN, and then just worry about domestic problems. I have a feeling that htis would make alot of people happy- for a while. At least until the world started to fall apart.
I would agree with David 'O Mac on the idea of halting a war. This would be one of the worst things that can happen... think about it....
[list=1]
[*]The US would Probably Retain already captured Land
[*]Iraq may seek Reprisals upon Citizens of Fallen Cities
[*]Humanitarian Aide could Take Months to Get into Central Iraq
[*]The Physcological Effect that it Would have Upon Saddam Himself
[*]Would the UN resume Inspections?
[/list=1]
That's the short list I could think of here quick (lots 'o work going on), but I would imagine that a cease fire would result in a horrible mess..... in terms of world stability this could be far worse than the war could ever be. I almost see a Korea situation.
I seriously would doubt that the US would cede any of the land already occupied by the US back to the Iraqi's during a cease fire. If the Iraqi's are firing on civilians for leaving Basra to seek humanitarian relief, imagine what would happen should Iraqi's fully regain that land if the US would pull out. Shiite genocide would follow.
You'd end up with a horrible mess.
I would estimate that the final assult on Baghdad will occur in about 2 weeks. Looks like they are going to clean up Basra and Nasraf first to secure routes for humanitarian aide. The assult on Baghdad will need some type of nothern front for an all-round prescence, and it'll take them at least 2 weeks to fly in enough equipment to make the northern front a threat to Iraqi forces. The USAF will be pounding the Republican guard to soften them up.... if they do it right, the battle outside of Baghdad will not be as horrible as it could be.
Comments
[B]That was an Iraqi missle that landed in an Iranian town. However, we have accidently shot down a British Tornado using our partiot missles. [/B][/QUOTE]
friendly fire incidents and accidents have caused more deaths (so far) than actual combat in the british forces.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2882147.stm[/url]
Rather scarily I have just seen my own name listed as one of those killed on March 22.
[B]While I can understand your views (I'm stopping just short of saying I agree with it), explain exactly HOW this war is any more illegal or immoral than any other war in the past century ? [/B][/QUOTE]
we are talking about the current war - a war still can be stopped....
wars of the past can't bestopped now and there's no reverse button to correct faults of the past. we should have learned from the past what in fact everyone pretends but doesn't stop us from doing the same failures again and again.
shadow boxer got the whole coverage of how the world is working and A2597 you're wrong in assuming this war would stop support for suicide bombing it is in fact the guarantee for more terrorism...
in the beginning of the week there has been a demonstration of pupils from all schools and universities of Hamburg and some militant nerds abused this initiative to attack the US embassy and the police defending it.
authorities weren't able to distinguish 10 years old with the few 100s of assholes doing the same what US administration claims to be rightous.
they abused a peacefully meant message to justify their aggression.
intel reports ne foundings of terrorist cells planing attacks here in germany (who knows? - but it is reported from different scources) and although having peace here public installations resemble fortresses and ppl a lot of ppl get arrested.
we have a smaller issue of a George Bush here in Hamburg responsible for the cities security who really favours the US actions as he now has reasons to blame any muslim here being a potential terrorist...
and this naziasshole also has been voted - I just hope all this will show the people that this choice has been a fault and he won't get another 4 years doing his shit.
aggression always caused aggression and hatred on the other side - pretending ourselves to be the civilized doesn't stop us to be the same assholes we claim to sweep from this planet.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by whitestar90 [/i]
[b]There should be a law banning any and all bombing of cities,no matter how good you think your weapons are.[/b][/quote]
And just where do you think dictators and the like would start hiding things like weapons factories, nuke silos, etc?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Konrad [/i]
[B]You are correct - It was Faylorn. My apologies to you. :( [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, we all know Faylorn is a conspiracy nut. ;)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]And just where do you think dictators and the like would start hiding things like weapons factories, nuke silos, etc?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Case in point, US Marines captured a hospital that was being used by Iraqi soldiers as a staging area.
[URL=http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/25/sprj.irq.nasiriya.hospital/index.html]Hospital captured[/URL]
ruthless leaders and fanatic parts of the iraqi troops and also despair realizing that being overwhelmed is only a question of one or another two weeks but in the end unstopable.
this may have been avoidable...
but if ppl chose to have their own way regardless the consequences...that's the price to pay.
Date: 2003-03-25 Posted By: Dan Sale Topics: Iraq : Chemical Weapons : War
U.S. military investigators have found no evidence that chemical weapons have been made in recent years at a suspect chemical plant secured by U.S. troops in southern Iraq, a senior defense official said Tuesday.
Region: Middle East
Read It At: WFTC UPN 29 (Mirrored Copy)
Well?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Konrad [/i]
[B]You are correct - It was Faylorn. My apologies to you. :( [/B][/QUOTE]
Where is the old boy? I'm surprised he's missing the opportunity to spam us with ZMag articles about carpet bombings of Baghdad, how we're doing it for the oil, and other miscelaneous reports on how we're bringing suffering to the world.
[B]U.S. military finds nothing at suspected chemical facility in Najaf
Date: 2003-03-25 Posted By: Dan Sale Topics: Iraq : Chemical Weapons : War
U.S. military investigators have found no evidence that chemical weapons have been made in recent years at a suspect chemical plant secured by U.S. troops in southern Iraq, a senior defense official said Tuesday.
Region: Middle East
Read It At: WFTC UPN 29 (Mirrored Copy)
Well? [/B][/QUOTE]
As I said earlier...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JackN[/i]
[B]The mere existence of the site implies INTENT to produce...[/B][/QUOTE]
And this occured during the 12 years he was supposed to be cooperating. Where do you think the funding to build it came from?
Let's not forget that the actual agents that might have been created years ago could be anywhere now...
it's really annoying that ppl tend to repeating theirselves during the whole discussion and others feel like repeating their stuff.
....it's like a horde of elementary school children have been unleashed - let's get back to reasonable arguments as this is a too serious topic to behave childish.
not supporting Bush doesn't mean supporting Hussein - but maybe that's an impossible idea living in a world of black and white....
(yes that's an insult!!! start throwing things at me)
This report (verified by AP press with video shots from the school) of Fedayeen troops using a local school house to store weapons in and to operate out of. Crap like outta show people just how much the Iraqi's don't care about their civilians.
Here's a link to audio I captured from this article (it's about 234kb) - to prove it: [url]http://www.third-space.net/iraq/school_gernades.wav[/url]
Hiding weapons and using a Hospitol to operate out of is deplorable.
[B]Congratulations, Messiah! You have successfully demonstrated to us that Saddam Hussein has absolutely no WMDs whatsoever! Not one spore of anthrax! Not one mL of mustard gas! Absolutely no Vx! Not only that, but Saddam Hussein is really a teddy bear! GW Bush is actually conducting a campaign of terror against a loveable, huggable bedtime friend for little children! He's reached out with nothing but compassion and respect, to his own population and to the populations of the world! Everyone, unite with me in defending Teddy Bear Saddam against the vile western devils! [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks?
Please grow up. I wont lift a finger to defend myself on this. You know better.
The US always has been seen as a valuable partner and ppl want to return to the table with the US as they don't want to build up a revenue of a "cold war"- atmosphere (well at least no european state would have the power to fit a military counterpart).
some ppl here are sounding really pathetic and should stick to the fact that people here aren't babarians they're in fact a lot influenced by the americans and not everything american culture delivered is doomed here!!!
peopel haven't forgotten that what they have now was only possible through the US initiative and cooperation since WW II.
and people here in europe are able to distinguish the people and its political leaders (although some here say that's the same). unfortunately that seems to be the oposite in the arab world but Bush had been warned that this war would be another portion of oil into the fire.
liberating the iraqis will lead to a lot more effective mental enslavemrnt within this region and cause new potential of conflicts.
even if the ppl of iraq now get a chance to establish a functional economy and get better standards what is not said to happen that quick (see troubles in afghanistan) and troop presence has to remain there to prevent iran gets its grasp on the desolate area it will be seen as interference and occupation - at least the fundamentalists will develop this impression and abuse it to opose more violently and terrorism cells will spread in large numbers....
europe won't arise as europe is economically bound to the system of globalism and not interested in open hostility but the arab world is a unbearable political powder keg to be treated with caution.
europe and the us is like kiddies in the sandpit but western world and arab world is more like gangbang.
I don't think I am that wrong there.....
edit: By the way, I'm not being sarcastic, I'm rather curious about this.
Back to something that was posted a while ago (the first page said by Shadow Boxer), but I never had time to answer it:
[quote] One other thing bugs me too... if Bush and his Admin claim that Saddam has WMD then why the fuck would he put 200,000 US servicemen right in Saddams lap ?? If Saddam had an efficent, effective system of delivery and the actual weapon agents to kill lots of people, what President in his right mind would send large contingents of massed troops up to Saddams doorstep ?[/quote]
Well, it is pretty obvious that we are VERY afraid of a chemical weapons attack- why else would everyone have to have full chemical weapons suits with gas masks? Have you missed the reports of gas raid sirens going off everyday? Or have you missed how the civilians that live in Kuwait City are given gas masks incase of a chemical weapons attack? We are not going in unprepared- this is a very real fear that has been adressed as best we can.
One other thing from the same post:
[quote] For fucks sake I was advocating the dissolution of the US sometime back... splitting the US, North/South, East/West to try and reduce the bully boy arrogance that is natural to a country with a massive powerbase.[/quote]
And who the fuck gives you the right to tell us what to do? What kind of idea is that- splitting up a nation that has been united for almost 300 years (with the exception of the Civil War). Unless you live here, please dont suggest such a thing. And if you do- you seriously need to take a look at what you are advocating.
[B]Congratulations, Messiah! You have successfully demonstrated to us that Saddam Hussein has absolutely no WMDs whatsoever! Not one spore of anthrax! Not one mL of mustard gas! Absolutely no Vx! Not only that, but Saddam Hussein is really a teddy bear! GW Bush is actually conducting a campaign of terror against a loveable, huggable bedtime friend for little children! He's reached out with nothing but compassion and respect, to his own population and to the populations of the world! Everyone, unite with me in defending Teddy Bear Saddam against the vile western devils! [/B][/QUOTE]
Congratulations Vertigo_1! You have successfully demonstrated to us your childishness!
- PJH
[B]there's a difference between clever sarcasm and just dumb sarcasm....but this is not a rethorical lecture session, isn't it? [/B][/QUOTE]
lol.... we've strayed sooo far from the original topic here at some points.... might as well bring in rethorical lessons....
[B]there's a difference between clever sarcasm and just dumb sarcasm....but this is not a rethorical lecture session, isn't it? [/B][/QUOTE]
Notice my :D That means I was joking- i.e. not trying to make a subject of it
[B]we are talking about the current war - a war still can be stopped....[/B][/QUOTE]
No it can't. The [i]second[/i] we dropped the first bomb, we were committed. Saddam Hussein is not the sort of man who will see the U.S. suddenly withdrawing and think [i]Thank Allah, that was close. In fact, I think it has taught me the error of my ways, seeking a place in history. [b]Sic Transit Gloria[/b] and all that. I think I'll retire and put in a democratically elected government.[/i]
No, Saddam would think [i]Ha ha! I have beaten the most powerful nation the world has ever seen! Again! I am the Greatest Man Ever! I can do anything! No man can stop me![/i]
This would, for a lot of reasons, be rather bad.
I want this war over, fast, with few deaths. Make no mistake, I didn't want this war, for any reason, economic, propoganidic, or humanitarian. The problems of others are not our concern.
less people would be on the streets if this action had been confirmed by the UN after another last chance had been wasted by Hussein (what may have been a certainty), but people really have had the feeling everything had been done, but now the last initiative (which in fact could have been developed earlier - that's something the europeans have to be blamed for) remained unheard....
and still the question: is this just a beginning?
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)
But the UN would never have commited to force in Iraq. France would simply have vetoed.
As someone else said, it would be very interesting if the US did what alot of the world would like- just back out and go to a state of pre-20s isolationalism. Drop out of the UN, and then just worry about domestic problems. I have a feeling that htis would make alot of people happy- for a while. At least until the world started to fall apart.
[list=1]
[*]The US would Probably Retain already captured Land
[*]Iraq may seek Reprisals upon Citizens of Fallen Cities
[*]Humanitarian Aide could Take Months to Get into Central Iraq
[*]The Physcological Effect that it Would have Upon Saddam Himself
[*]Would the UN resume Inspections?
[/list=1]
That's the short list I could think of here quick (lots 'o work going on), but I would imagine that a cease fire would result in a horrible mess..... in terms of world stability this could be far worse than the war could ever be. I almost see a Korea situation.
I seriously would doubt that the US would cede any of the land already occupied by the US back to the Iraqi's during a cease fire. If the Iraqi's are firing on civilians for leaving Basra to seek humanitarian relief, imagine what would happen should Iraqi's fully regain that land if the US would pull out. Shiite genocide would follow.
You'd end up with a horrible mess.
I would estimate that the final assult on Baghdad will occur in about 2 weeks. Looks like they are going to clean up Basra and Nasraf first to secure routes for humanitarian aide. The assult on Baghdad will need some type of nothern front for an all-round prescence, and it'll take them at least 2 weeks to fly in enough equipment to make the northern front a threat to Iraqi forces. The USAF will be pounding the Republican guard to soften them up.... if they do it right, the battle outside of Baghdad will not be as horrible as it could be.
Just a couple predictions on my part....