[quote]Originally posted by raZar:
[b]I never saw the point in having 2 different colors.[/b][/quote]
The fact that a jump point could have two different colors was actually based in scientific fact -- the dopper shift. Incoming jump points were blue because the "approaching" light was shifted towards the blue end of the spectrum. And the outgoing jump points were red because the receding light was shifted towards the red end of the spectrum.
I enjoyed it overall, the following is just nitpicking and any conveyed tone should be raised several notches, because negativity is all I'm capable of.
The jump effects could have been done with orange too, and I would prefer that. it's just too deeply part of B5 effects. I'm not sure I like the look of hyperspace, but somehow it makes more sense. The nials I think we can explain away as some sort of training exercise, but the scaling was just wrong. The gunnery thing seemed very...Minbari. Just sort of their style. It would really only work on that kind of weapons array though, a typical minbari ship would require something more conventional. "Today is a good day to die"? Stolen dialogue. Eww. As for "But e don't die stupidly," I kind of liked that. I agree, G'Kar seemed like he kind of got stuffed in there a little too hard. He's a great character, but he just didn't belong in some scenes. The holosuit looks to be the kind of dumb tech toy ST writers would milk far too often, lets just hope that mistake is not made here. Tirk better have some point to him later in the series (hope, hope), or I'm gonna have a fit. And I don't have fits lightly. I liked the new Narn though.
I seriously doubt that the hand has any relation to thirdspace. Besides, space is vast enough for plenty of rediculously powerful empires. Those 'toys' just didn't make sense. I couldn't figure out what was going on in their center, the weapons effects were just weird, and the mines had no real reason to be launched in that shape that I could think of. As for the Hand, I got the impression of the general plotline being rubbed in my face. We all know JMS isn't even [i]capable[/i] of that, and numerous twists, turns, and revelations are undoubtedly on their way, but it just seemed like too much explanation shoved into that little bit of time.
As far as the opening the gate to destroy the enemy idea goes, jumpgates would probably be built with some sort of safety protocols to keep them from being used like that. I mean, an explosion of that size inside a gate could very well cause enough damage to destroy it, and those things are probably both expensive and important to trade and communications. Wouldn't want one destroyed just because somebody pushed the wrong button. The only way I can think of where it might be possible is if there was some kind of military override signal, but that would only work for the race that built it.
Nick
I'm so glad everyone hates the gunnery pod, cause I do as well.
As for the Valen, which everyone also seems to hate, here's the deal:
It's supposed to be a butt ugly ship. It's also supposed to look a bit like a Trek ship, a bit of a poke at Trek by JMS because the Valen gets schooled!
From what I've been reading, reactions are mixed on everything. I still hop Sci-Fi wants to do a series out of it. I mean "The Gathering" wasn't great either, but we all know how the rest of B5 turned out. I'm looking forward to the future.
------------------
[url="http://slade__tek.tripod.com/"]Alec McClymont, 3D Artist[/url]
3D Artist - GVFX
The gunpod was a good idea but was made to nice it should been a chair in that room that to sit on. The floating thing was to much [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[quote]Originally posted by Nick:
[b]Thing that most bugged me:
Why in the hell would you give up an advanced targeting system for some chick kicking and punching in a tube?
The valen seemed ok. Kinda weak for a "NEW" warship. Did anyone else even see it get a shot off? And what no minbari cruisers hanging around either b5 OR minbar. I think I saw a G'quan... I think.
Too much lame dialog. "We die for the one but we don't die stupidly" STUPIDLY! /sigh. Maybe im too picky.
[/b][/quote]
Actually, I agree with most of your points.
The targeting system was a bit silly. You could have easily accomplished the same thing with a system that is less complex. Such a complex system is also bound to foul up as well.
The Valen seemed VERY weak for a new 'top of the line' ship. Was it their newest transport class ship? I don't recall a single shot, but maybe the traitor sabatoged the holographic weapons console.
Also, my friends and I were disappointed with the lack of familiar ships. If it is only 3 years post B5, why are we not seeing anything familiar? There were more familiar ships in Crusades.
The dialog was ok for the most part, but the "stupidly" comment was pretty bad and surely could have been rewritten to sound a bit better. I was also getting a little tired of hearing the Ranger motto after every breath.
All this being said, I did enjoy the movie and would like to see it expanded into a series. The new aliens sound interesting, kinda hoping they turn out to be the third space aliens, but that doesn't totally fit the storyline. Someone else mentioned the possibility of another ancient first one race that had already been beaten by the first ones we know of, that seems like the most plausable.
The crew is pretty good, and the acting was believable. The only crew member I didn't really understand was the Drazi. I initially put down his opening speech to an unfamiliarity with English (or galactic standard or whatever), but as it went on he began to remind me of Dagett (sp?) from Sea Quest. I think the Pak'ma'ra Ranger had more believability as a Ranger.
SPX were impressive (IMO), but I wish they kept some things more standard between the series/movies - such as the jump gate.
The story was ok for a pilot, good intro to everyone/everything, but not too much to overwhelm people new to the series.
I hope to be singing it's praises in another year!
hmmm...wonder why there was a lack of familiar ships? Where did Epsilon 3 go -why was hyperspace so weak and new? What happened to that great inventory of effects and ships and environments that could have given them a big ole head start on the EFX?
Dont ask me, I don't know all that much about it [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Here's what I want to happen in the first five minutes of the first episode of the series:
THe camera focuses on babylon 5. You notice the many ships moving back and forth, happily ferrying passengers around.
The camera begins to shake slightly, slowly getting more violent (lasts about four seconds) until... the camera stops shaking, and epsilon 3 just appears with a [b]*POOP!*[/b] like the sound a cork-gun makes.
[quote]
hmmm...wonder why there was a lack of familiar ships? Where did Epsilon 3 go -why was hyperspace so weak and new? What
happened to that great inventory of effects and ships and environments that could have given them a big ole head start on the EFX?
Dont ask me, I don't know all that much about it
[/quote]
Ok Marc spill it!!!!
------------------
"And there is nothing more dangerous then a man with nothing to lose. Nothing to live for and nothing to prove."
[i]Brendan Perry, Dead Can Dance[/i]
[This message has been edited by Hartsblade (edited 01-21-2002).]
Ships/models/whatever all the property of Netter Digital? The now-bankrupt Netter Digital, which is why it couldn't be used for this movie? GVFX couldn't just take what it wanted, but had to actually buy the nials/jumpgate/B5? I kinda assumed those details would be taken care of by WB....
------------------
We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
[quote]>The wheel had already been invented and perfected in Lightwave. *Use* the
>wheel. If necessary, tweak it some more, but *don't* go to different
>software. To change to Maya is to incur additional work and expense, and
>leave yourself open to the possibility of errors and inconsistancies. This
>kind of thing really pisses me off. The change makes no sense. There are
>times to be conservative, and this was one of them.
>
>
Understand, however, that we did not *have* that software, or those images. WB
had literally lost all the CGI archives we gave them every season. All we were
able to get, at the very last moment, was a copy of the ship files we had
given Sierra for the B5 game. That's it.
jms
(jmsatb5@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)[/quote]
So now I know what Marc (or one of the other devs, can't remember offhand) was talking about when he mentioned quite a while back that ItF and LotR were connected in some way.
[This message has been edited by samuelk (edited 01-21-2002).]
[quote]Honestly, I was in awe of how bad it was. It reminded me of some 1950's sci-fi movie. Any moment I expected the guys from MST3K to pop up and start ridiculing it. Since when did Rangers have this suicidal never EVER retreat creed. Gee our weapons are down so we're gonna die but at least we won't be running. The whole "battle" with the valen was aweful. The thing just sat there taking hit after hit. It had enough power to turn around and ram but not to turn around and fire. The cgi was aweful. Did you see how hyperspace looked? The battles? The enemy ships looked so much like hunks of trash that I would have figured them as rejects from the pakmara navy. And the VR weapons systems. My God the weps officer flailing and punching and kicking had me crying. The part with her screaming and shooting mines had me laughing.
Crusade at its worst at least resembeled B5. This was sad.[/quote]
If that's the case, and the models from ItF pulled their cans out of the fire (no pun intended), then maybe that can be used to pull ItF (or some reasonable version of it) back from the rim. After all if the ItF models were good enough to be used in LotR then hell shouldn't they be used in a game!!
You know the old "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" or more to the point "I give you my game models, you give me a game to use them in"
------------------
"And there is nothing more dangerous then a man with nothing to lose. Nothing to live for and nothing to prove."
[i]Brendan Perry, Dead Can Dance[/i]
[quote]Originally posted by Hartsblade:
[b]If that's the case, and the models from ItF pulled their cans out of the fire (no pun intended), then maybe that can be used to pull ItF (or some reasonable version of it) back from the rim. After all if the ItF models were good enough to be used in LotR then hell shouldn't they be used in a game!!
You know the old "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" or more to the point "I give you my game models, you give me a game to use them in"
[/b][/quote]
Hartsblade, the models were NOT game models. They were the original models used in the show. Warner Brothers gave Sierra copies of the show models as references for creating the game models. It was the copies of the show models that were used in LotR.
------------------
[b]HW:B5TC Dev. Team Member and B5TC Board Moderator.[/b]
[url="http://www.geocities.com/cnlpepperplanet"]CnlPepper's B5 Mod Resources[/url]
Well consider this. We only asked for ships and space stations. Of those requests, only a handful made it to us, and many of them weren't the "hero" models (the B5 station model as an example -we had a very old version of it, not the tricked out one you saw in later versions -ours didn't even have much in the way of the lighting rig with it). Many were unobtainable because of a similar situation when the transition from Foundation to Netter occured. So, take the miniscule handful of stuff Sierra received, then subtract that from *everything* you've ever seen on the show and that's what no longer exists -I assume.
Would it be possible to use fan made models? Some of them are really good, but I know there are probabily incermountable legal considerations, so I would understand if that wouldn't work.
LEGEND OF THE RANGERS is far from perfect, but with some improvements, it could be one hell of a show. I must admit, it's a hell of a lot better than ENTERPRISE, despite it flaws. And the lead actor, strikes me as being more of a starship captain than Scott Bakula.
Now, on to the problems I had:
1) What? No White Star fleet?
2) I thought the Ranger fell under the control of the Interstellar Alliance, following the Shadow War.
3) Why does Minbar look so dark?
4) Very young cast.
5) The location of the weapons system looks cool, but also seemed inconvenient.
6) These omnipotent and powerful old races are becoming a cliche in sci-fi. What happened to the Drakh?
2) I thought the Ranger fell under the control of the Interstellar Alliance, following the Shadow War.
3) Why does Minbar look so dark?
4) Very young cast.
5) The location of the weapons system looks cool, but also seemed inconvenient.
6) These omnipotent and powerful old races are becoming a cliche in sci-fi. What happened to the Drakh?[/b][/quote]
The Whitestar fleet still exists, though not to the levels seen before the Shadow war hit full swing.
Yes the Rangers are part of the Interstellar Alliances police force if you put it that way, they help to enforce the peace and stop the other races from nit picking and starting border wars.
Maybe it was Minbari winter? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Well, a large number of the Rangers were lost during the Shadow War, so obviously alot of new recruits have been coming up the ranks to replace those that were lost.
The weapons system was cool, and yes it could be inconvient... if they lost anti gravity support that device would fail, so they would need back/manual controls... and since the Minabri built it I'm sure they thought of that. They are logical that way (not that I know any Minbari personally [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img] )
I think this has come about as over the past 100 years, we have realised that the universe is very very old... so it I guess thats where it comes in... plus ancient human culture always speaks of ancient evil... in many ways its an old, yet new enemy. I'm sure the Drakh will be explained and explored further when the series follows. Its hard to work out where the time frame fits in at this point.
------------------
'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]www.NialB5.com[/url].
[This message has been edited by Falcon1 (edited 01-22-2002).]
I dont think I've posted here before but I just wanted to say something about the Liandra. I remember Dulann saying something about a "Junali" style of design. Could the membari have been (or whoever built the ship)experimenting with new types of ships?
It seems possible that it was a "concept ship" and was never meant for mass production.
It could also have been a one of a kind ship that was made specifically for one mission, but perhaps performed better than anticipated and kept around as a support ship.
Just like the Whitestar if I recall correctly. There was only one that was used to free the Ranger base from the Centauri blockade of Zagros 7(?). After that encounter with the Shadow vessel and they saw how it performed, who's to say that that wasnt the reason for the mass production.
[This message has been edited by ShadoStarr (edited 01-22-2002).]
[quote]Originally posted by ShadoStarr:
[b]I dont think I've posted here before but I just wanted to say something about the Liandra. I remember Dulann saying something about a "Junali" style of design. Could the membari have been (or whoever built the ship)experimenting with new types of ships?
It seems possible that it was a "concept ship" and was never meant for mass production.
It could also have been a one of a kind ship that was made specifically for one mission, but perhaps performed better than anticipated and kept around as a support ship.
Just like the Whitestar if I recall correctly. There was only one that was used to free the Ranger base from the Centauri blockade of Zagros 7(?). After that encounter with the Shadow vessel and they saw how it performed, who's to say that that wasnt the reason for the mass production.
[This message has been edited by ShadoStarr (edited 01-22-2002).][/b][/quote]
I think what he meant was that the Liandra was designed in a certain asthetic style -- kind of like baroque or art deco.
Comments
[b]I never saw the point in having 2 different colors.[/b][/quote]
The fact that a jump point could have two different colors was actually based in scientific fact -- the dopper shift. Incoming jump points were blue because the "approaching" light was shifted towards the blue end of the spectrum. And the outgoing jump points were red because the receding light was shifted towards the red end of the spectrum.
I actually liked that.
The jump effects could have been done with orange too, and I would prefer that. it's just too deeply part of B5 effects. I'm not sure I like the look of hyperspace, but somehow it makes more sense. The nials I think we can explain away as some sort of training exercise, but the scaling was just wrong. The gunnery thing seemed very...Minbari. Just sort of their style. It would really only work on that kind of weapons array though, a typical minbari ship would require something more conventional. "Today is a good day to die"? Stolen dialogue. Eww. As for "But e don't die stupidly," I kind of liked that. I agree, G'Kar seemed like he kind of got stuffed in there a little too hard. He's a great character, but he just didn't belong in some scenes. The holosuit looks to be the kind of dumb tech toy ST writers would milk far too often, lets just hope that mistake is not made here. Tirk better have some point to him later in the series (hope, hope), or I'm gonna have a fit. And I don't have fits lightly. I liked the new Narn though.
I seriously doubt that the hand has any relation to thirdspace. Besides, space is vast enough for plenty of rediculously powerful empires. Those 'toys' just didn't make sense. I couldn't figure out what was going on in their center, the weapons effects were just weird, and the mines had no real reason to be launched in that shape that I could think of. As for the Hand, I got the impression of the general plotline being rubbed in my face. We all know JMS isn't even [i]capable[/i] of that, and numerous twists, turns, and revelations are undoubtedly on their way, but it just seemed like too much explanation shoved into that little bit of time.
Nick
As for the Valen, which everyone also seems to hate, here's the deal:
It's supposed to be a butt ugly ship. It's also supposed to look a bit like a Trek ship, a bit of a poke at Trek by JMS because the Valen gets schooled!
From what I've been reading, reactions are mixed on everything. I still hop Sci-Fi wants to do a series out of it. I mean "The Gathering" wasn't great either, but we all know how the rest of B5 turned out. I'm looking forward to the future.
------------------
[url="http://slade__tek.tripod.com/"]Alec McClymont, 3D Artist[/url]
3D Artist - GVFX
We live for the one. We die for the one.
??
[b]Thing that most bugged me:
Why in the hell would you give up an advanced targeting system for some chick kicking and punching in a tube?
The valen seemed ok. Kinda weak for a "NEW" warship. Did anyone else even see it get a shot off? And what no minbari cruisers hanging around either b5 OR minbar. I think I saw a G'quan... I think.
Too much lame dialog. "We die for the one but we don't die stupidly" STUPIDLY! /sigh. Maybe im too picky.
[/b][/quote]
Actually, I agree with most of your points.
The targeting system was a bit silly. You could have easily accomplished the same thing with a system that is less complex. Such a complex system is also bound to foul up as well.
The Valen seemed VERY weak for a new 'top of the line' ship. Was it their newest transport class ship? I don't recall a single shot, but maybe the traitor sabatoged the holographic weapons console.
Also, my friends and I were disappointed with the lack of familiar ships. If it is only 3 years post B5, why are we not seeing anything familiar? There were more familiar ships in Crusades.
The dialog was ok for the most part, but the "stupidly" comment was pretty bad and surely could have been rewritten to sound a bit better. I was also getting a little tired of hearing the Ranger motto after every breath.
All this being said, I did enjoy the movie and would like to see it expanded into a series. The new aliens sound interesting, kinda hoping they turn out to be the third space aliens, but that doesn't totally fit the storyline. Someone else mentioned the possibility of another ancient first one race that had already been beaten by the first ones we know of, that seems like the most plausable.
The crew is pretty good, and the acting was believable. The only crew member I didn't really understand was the Drazi. I initially put down his opening speech to an unfamiliarity with English (or galactic standard or whatever), but as it went on he began to remind me of Dagett (sp?) from Sea Quest. I think the Pak'ma'ra Ranger had more believability as a Ranger.
SPX were impressive (IMO), but I wish they kept some things more standard between the series/movies - such as the jump gate.
The story was ok for a pilot, good intro to everyone/everything, but not too much to overwhelm people new to the series.
I hope to be singing it's praises in another year!
Dont ask me, I don't know all that much about it [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
THe camera focuses on babylon 5. You notice the many ships moving back and forth, happily ferrying passengers around.
The camera begins to shake slightly, slowly getting more violent (lasts about four seconds) until... the camera stops shaking, and epsilon 3 just appears with a [b]*POOP!*[/b] like the sound a cork-gun makes.
hmmm...wonder why there was a lack of familiar ships? Where did Epsilon 3 go -why was hyperspace so weak and new? What
happened to that great inventory of effects and ships and environments that could have given them a big ole head start on the EFX?
Dont ask me, I don't know all that much about it
[/quote]
Ok Marc spill it!!!!
------------------
"And there is nothing more dangerous then a man with nothing to lose. Nothing to live for and nothing to prove."
[i]Brendan Perry, Dead Can Dance[/i]
[This message has been edited by Hartsblade (edited 01-21-2002).]
hint: Netter
Ships/models/whatever all the property of Netter Digital? The now-bankrupt Netter Digital, which is why it couldn't be used for this movie? GVFX couldn't just take what it wanted, but had to actually buy the nials/jumpgate/B5? I kinda assumed those details would be taken care of by WB....
------------------
We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
"Never ascribe to conspiracy, that which is better explained by stupidity"
[quote]>The wheel had already been invented and perfected in Lightwave. *Use* the
>wheel. If necessary, tweak it some more, but *don't* go to different
>software. To change to Maya is to incur additional work and expense, and
>leave yourself open to the possibility of errors and inconsistancies. This
>kind of thing really pisses me off. The change makes no sense. There are
>times to be conservative, and this was one of them.
>
>
Understand, however, that we did not *have* that software, or those images. WB
had literally lost all the CGI archives we gave them every season. All we were
able to get, at the very last moment, was a copy of the ship files we had
given Sierra for the B5 game. That's it.
jms
(jmsatb5@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2001 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)[/quote]
So now I know what Marc (or one of the other devs, can't remember offhand) was talking about when he mentioned quite a while back that ItF and LotR were connected in some way.
[This message has been edited by samuelk (edited 01-21-2002).]
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
-Legend of the Mysterious Last Minute CD...
[This message has been edited by JackN (edited 01-21-2002).]
Crusade at its worst at least resembeled B5. This was sad.[/quote]
You know the old "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" or more to the point "I give you my game models, you give me a game to use them in"
------------------
"And there is nothing more dangerous then a man with nothing to lose. Nothing to live for and nothing to prove."
[i]Brendan Perry, Dead Can Dance[/i]
[b]If that's the case, and the models from ItF pulled their cans out of the fire (no pun intended), then maybe that can be used to pull ItF (or some reasonable version of it) back from the rim. After all if the ItF models were good enough to be used in LotR then hell shouldn't they be used in a game!!
You know the old "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" or more to the point "I give you my game models, you give me a game to use them in"
[/b][/quote]
Hartsblade, the models were NOT game models. They were the original models used in the show. Warner Brothers gave Sierra copies of the show models as references for creating the game models. It was the copies of the show models that were used in LotR.
The copy of the show models Sierra got was not a full compliment of Netter's library...
There are many things from the original B5 series that will never be seen again.
(Not without a specific effort to duplicate them anyway...)
CnlPepper - Saddened.....
------------------
[b]HW:B5TC Dev. Team Member and B5TC Board Moderator.[/b]
[url="http://www.geocities.com/cnlpepperplanet"]CnlPepper's B5 Mod Resources[/url]
There were no backups of the models made?
None of the artists saved anything they worked on for nostalgia and have it?
Netter never archived anything to CD?
Or is this all speculation?
Now, on to the problems I had:
1) What? No White Star fleet?
2) I thought the Ranger fell under the control of the Interstellar Alliance, following the Shadow War.
3) Why does Minbar look so dark?
4) Very young cast.
5) The location of the weapons system looks cool, but also seemed inconvenient.
6) These omnipotent and powerful old races are becoming a cliche in sci-fi. What happened to the Drakh?
[b]
Now, on to the problems I had:
1) What? No White Star fleet?
2) I thought the Ranger fell under the control of the Interstellar Alliance, following the Shadow War.
3) Why does Minbar look so dark?
4) Very young cast.
5) The location of the weapons system looks cool, but also seemed inconvenient.
6) These omnipotent and powerful old races are becoming a cliche in sci-fi. What happened to the Drakh?[/b][/quote]
The Whitestar fleet still exists, though not to the levels seen before the Shadow war hit full swing.
Yes the Rangers are part of the Interstellar Alliances police force if you put it that way, they help to enforce the peace and stop the other races from nit picking and starting border wars.
Maybe it was Minbari winter? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Well, a large number of the Rangers were lost during the Shadow War, so obviously alot of new recruits have been coming up the ranks to replace those that were lost.
The weapons system was cool, and yes it could be inconvient... if they lost anti gravity support that device would fail, so they would need back/manual controls... and since the Minabri built it I'm sure they thought of that. They are logical that way (not that I know any Minbari personally [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img] )
I think this has come about as over the past 100 years, we have realised that the universe is very very old... so it I guess thats where it comes in... plus ancient human culture always speaks of ancient evil... in many ways its an old, yet new enemy. I'm sure the Drakh will be explained and explored further when the series follows. Its hard to work out where the time frame fits in at this point.
------------------
'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]www.NialB5.com[/url].
[This message has been edited by Falcon1 (edited 01-22-2002).]
It seems possible that it was a "concept ship" and was never meant for mass production.
It could also have been a one of a kind ship that was made specifically for one mission, but perhaps performed better than anticipated and kept around as a support ship.
Just like the Whitestar if I recall correctly. There was only one that was used to free the Ranger base from the Centauri blockade of Zagros 7(?). After that encounter with the Shadow vessel and they saw how it performed, who's to say that that wasnt the reason for the mass production.
[This message has been edited by ShadoStarr (edited 01-22-2002).]
[b]I dont think I've posted here before but I just wanted to say something about the Liandra. I remember Dulann saying something about a "Junali" style of design. Could the membari have been (or whoever built the ship)experimenting with new types of ships?
It seems possible that it was a "concept ship" and was never meant for mass production.
It could also have been a one of a kind ship that was made specifically for one mission, but perhaps performed better than anticipated and kept around as a support ship.
Just like the Whitestar if I recall correctly. There was only one that was used to free the Ranger base from the Centauri blockade of Zagros 7(?). After that encounter with the Shadow vessel and they saw how it performed, who's to say that that wasnt the reason for the mass production.
[This message has been edited by ShadoStarr (edited 01-22-2002).][/b][/quote]
I think what he meant was that the Liandra was designed in a certain asthetic style -- kind of like baroque or art deco.