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Massive Body Discovered Beyond Pluto
By Andrew Bridges
AP Science Writer
Monday, October 7, 2002; 2:07 PM
LOS ANGELES –– A billion miles beyond Pluto, astronomers have discovered a frozen celestial body 800 miles across – the biggest find in the solar system since the ninth planet was spotted 72 years ago. But astronomers do not consider the newfound object a planet.
The object is about one-tenth the diameter of Earth and orbits the sun once every 288 years at a distance of 4 billion miles. It is only half the size of Pluto, which some astronomers have come to believe should not have been designated a planet at all.
Planetary astronomer Michael Brown of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena and postdoctoral scholar Chadwick Trujillo discovered the object in images taken June 4. They were to announce their discovery Monday in Birmingham, Ala., at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society's division of planetary sciences.
"It's about the size of all the asteroids put together, so this thing is really quite big," Brown said.
The two used a telescope at the Palomar Observatory near San Diego to discover the world, provisionally dubbed Quaoar (pronounced kwah-o-wahr), a creation force in Southern California Indian mythology. Follow-up observations with the Hubble Space Telescope confirmed its size.
Archival research showed Quaoar had been captured on film as long ago as 1982, but was never noticed, Brown said. He and Trujillo went back and pored over the older images to help pin down the circular path it travels around the sun.
"It could easily have been detected 20 years ago, but it wasn't," Brown said.
Quaoar lies in the Kuiper Belt, a swarm of objects made of ice and rock that orbit the sun beyond Neptune. The objects are considered fossil remnants of the swirling disk of debris that coalesced to form the solar system roughly 5 billion years ago. It is also believed to be the source of some comets.
The belt contains as many as 10 billion objects at least one mile across; astronomers estimate five to 10 of those are jumbo-sized.
"This new discovery fits right in with our expectation that there should be a handful or two of objects as large as Pluto," said astronomer David Jewitt of the University of Hawaii. Jewitt, with then-colleague Jane Luu, discovered the first Kuiper Belt object just a decade ago.
As larger Kuiper Belt objects turn up, the case for Pluto as a planet weakens, astronomers said. Pluto lies within the Kuiper Belt and is considered by many merely among the largest of the bunch, and not a planet in its own right.
"It's pretty clear, if we discovered Pluto today, knowing what we know about other objects in the Kuiper Belt, we wouldn't even consider it a planet," Brown said.
Astronomers expect yet-undiscovered Kuiper Belt objects may rival even Pluto.
"An observation like this just confirms that, that we may discover Kuiper Belt objects bigger than Pluto," said Frank Summers, an astrophysicist at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore.
NASA is considering launching a spacecraft to explore Pluto, its moon, Charon, and at least one Kuiper Belt object, but whether it will be funded remains unclear. The New Horizons mission could launch as early as 2006, and would take about a decade to reach Pluto.
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On the Net:
Kuiper Belt: [url="http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/faculty/jewitt/kb.html"]http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/faculty/jewitt/kb.html[/url]
New Horizons: [url="http://pluto.jhuapl.edu"]http://pluto.jhuapl.edu[/url]
© 2002 The Associated Press
By Andrew Bridges
AP Science Writer
Monday, October 7, 2002; 2:07 PM
LOS ANGELES –– A billion miles beyond Pluto, astronomers have discovered a frozen celestial body 800 miles across – the biggest find in the solar system since the ninth planet was spotted 72 years ago. But astronomers do not consider the newfound object a planet.
The object is about one-tenth the diameter of Earth and orbits the sun once every 288 years at a distance of 4 billion miles. It is only half the size of Pluto, which some astronomers have come to believe should not have been designated a planet at all.
Planetary astronomer Michael Brown of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena and postdoctoral scholar Chadwick Trujillo discovered the object in images taken June 4. They were to announce their discovery Monday in Birmingham, Ala., at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society's division of planetary sciences.
"It's about the size of all the asteroids put together, so this thing is really quite big," Brown said.
The two used a telescope at the Palomar Observatory near San Diego to discover the world, provisionally dubbed Quaoar (pronounced kwah-o-wahr), a creation force in Southern California Indian mythology. Follow-up observations with the Hubble Space Telescope confirmed its size.
Archival research showed Quaoar had been captured on film as long ago as 1982, but was never noticed, Brown said. He and Trujillo went back and pored over the older images to help pin down the circular path it travels around the sun.
"It could easily have been detected 20 years ago, but it wasn't," Brown said.
Quaoar lies in the Kuiper Belt, a swarm of objects made of ice and rock that orbit the sun beyond Neptune. The objects are considered fossil remnants of the swirling disk of debris that coalesced to form the solar system roughly 5 billion years ago. It is also believed to be the source of some comets.
The belt contains as many as 10 billion objects at least one mile across; astronomers estimate five to 10 of those are jumbo-sized.
"This new discovery fits right in with our expectation that there should be a handful or two of objects as large as Pluto," said astronomer David Jewitt of the University of Hawaii. Jewitt, with then-colleague Jane Luu, discovered the first Kuiper Belt object just a decade ago.
As larger Kuiper Belt objects turn up, the case for Pluto as a planet weakens, astronomers said. Pluto lies within the Kuiper Belt and is considered by many merely among the largest of the bunch, and not a planet in its own right.
"It's pretty clear, if we discovered Pluto today, knowing what we know about other objects in the Kuiper Belt, we wouldn't even consider it a planet," Brown said.
Astronomers expect yet-undiscovered Kuiper Belt objects may rival even Pluto.
"An observation like this just confirms that, that we may discover Kuiper Belt objects bigger than Pluto," said Frank Summers, an astrophysicist at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore.
NASA is considering launching a spacecraft to explore Pluto, its moon, Charon, and at least one Kuiper Belt object, but whether it will be funded remains unclear. The New Horizons mission could launch as early as 2006, and would take about a decade to reach Pluto.
–––
On the Net:
Kuiper Belt: [url="http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/faculty/jewitt/kb.html"]http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/faculty/jewitt/kb.html[/url]
New Horizons: [url="http://pluto.jhuapl.edu"]http://pluto.jhuapl.edu[/url]
© 2002 The Associated Press
Comments
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[b][url="http://www.savefarscape.com/"]SAVE FARSCAPE![/url][/b]
"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else! Love to stay! Can't, have to go! Kiss! Kiss! Love! Love! Bye! *kiss*" - G'Kar
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Just MHO anyway...
[b][Spock]Facinating...[/Spock]
[/b][/quote]
[Data] Intreguing [/Data]
[b] [Data] Intreguing [/Data][/b][/quote]
[Tuvok] What are you implying?[/Tuvok]
Yes sir.
*/Tupal*
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[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
Argone
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[b]4 Thousand Throats can be cut in one night by a running Warrior[/b]
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
I say if it's more than 500 miles across... It's a planet!
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Hmmm... Why am I the only one who's packing?
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This is not a subliminal message. Keep walking. Thank you for not noticing.
[b]but plutos orbit is not circular its elipical[/b][/quote]
All planet's orbits are eliptical, with the sun in one of the focal-points.
That's the 1st of Keplers laws.
(Johannes Kepler, german astronomer, 1571-1630)
Of course that means that a circular orbit is theoretically possible, (because a circle is just a very special form of an ellipse) but it's not required and in fact circular orbits are extremely rare. No planet in our system has a circular orbit.
[b]yes i know that thats what i said, but plutos is very elipical, sometimes crossing paths with neptune. which means wouldnt they hit at one point? BOOM![/b][/quote]
No. They are not realy croosing paths.
It's coorect that Plutos path is sometimes within Neptunes, but the orbit's are not on the same plane.
All planet's orbits are [b]nearly[/b] on the same plane (called the Ecliptic) but not exactely. Neptunes orbit has an angle of 1.77 degrees from the ecliptic, plutos and angle of 17.2 degrees, so the paths don't actually cross eache other.
You could say one is above the other (although the term 'above' doesn't realy have a meaning in space, but you know what I mean)
[This message has been edited by Alex (edited 10-08-2002).]
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[url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Never eat anything bigger than your own head.[/url]
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
I believe it's officially a planet now.
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[url="http://www.alecm.com/"]Alec McClymont[/url]
3D Artist - GVFX
"Something is only impossible until it's not."
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
[b]Yeah...those anal ones wanted Ur-anus as the outermost planet...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
Yeah...
I'd want Uranus orbiting pretty far out there myself...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
i don't even know how to begin pronouncing it. Sounds like kitty language to me....rawr
How about we storm the gates and demand a better more inspirational name: Mohr, Helix, heck minbar, z'ha'dum, ribucon, romulus, anything but that horrible name
Thats what it needs to be named!!!
[b]they gave that planet a sucky name: Quaoar
i don't even know how to begin pronouncing it. Sounds like kitty language to me....rawr
How about we storm the gates and demand a better more inspirational name: Mohr, Helix, heck minbar, z'ha'dum, ribucon, romulus, anything but that horrible name[/b][/quote]
Hey! When you find a planet, piece of dirty ice, whatever, then you can name it... Until then...
:P
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
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"When it is time,come to this place,call our name,we will be here"-Walkers of Sigma957
[url="http://ifh.firstones.com"]I've Found Her-Babylon 5 free game[/url]
You might argue that it is an asteroid, because it's so small.
But noone ever defined a minimm size for palnets.
How would you do this?
Do we judge it by mass or by radius?
If Pulo isn't a planet, where do you draw the line?
Is Mercury a Planet? It's about 60% larger than pluto (which is still very small compared to earth).
Earth is very small compared to Jupiter.
Or maybe it isn't a planet because it's (a little bit) smaller than our moon?
But then Jupiter has moons that are larger than Earth. Does this mean that the Earth isn't a planet because there are moons that are bigger?
My point is that any line you could draw would be completely arbitrary.
So it's probably the best not to put any limit to planet-sizes and leave pluto a planet.
If you don't want to call it a planet, the other option is "Kuiper Belt Object".
[b]they gave that planet a sucky name: Quaoar
i don't even know how to begin pronouncing it. Sounds like kitty language to me....rawr
How about we storm the gates and demand a better more inspirational name: Mohr, Helix, heck minbar, z'ha'dum, ribucon, romulus, anything but that horrible name[/b][/quote]
It's pronounced "Kwa-oh-ah".
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[url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Never eat anything bigger than your own head.[/url]
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b] It's pronounced "Kwa-oh-ah".
[/b][/quote]
The naming sceme for large objects with there point of orbit as the sun is set by an international astonomy group (I forget the name). It states that these objects should be named after a creation deity. Quaoar is the creation force of the indian tribe (once again I forget names) in South California, where the astromers are from.
[b]It's definitely not a moon, because it orbits the sun. A moon must orbit a planet.
You might argue that it is an asteroid, because it's so small.
But noone ever defined a minimm size for palnets.
How would you do this?
Do we judge it by mass or by radius?
If Pulo isn't a planet, where do you draw the line?
Is Mercury a Planet? It's about 60% larger than pluto (which is still very small compared to earth).
Earth is very small compared to Jupiter.
Or maybe it isn't a planet because it's (a little bit) smaller than our moon?
But then Jupiter has moons that are larger than Earth. Does this mean that the Earth isn't a planet because there are moons that are bigger?
My point is that any line you could draw would be completely arbitrary.
So it's probably the best not to put any limit to planet-sizes and leave pluto a planet.[/b][/quote]
I agree. My conception of a Planet and a moon are based upon it's orbital parent.
If it orbits a star in a roughly circular path it is a planet in general terms. If it orbits an existing planet, then it is a moon.
Size should have some say, but not as strong a say as is being advocated. The asteroid belt orbits our sun, and is considered to be a failed planet in it's whole, so maybe the minimum size should be generally set to ~250-500 miles across in diameter or at least enough to generate a spherical body.
The size issue could also be taken the opposite direction by looking at Jupiter as a failed binary pair star rather than a planet, with it's own solar system. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I say make it a planet, it's big enough, has a ~circular orbit of the sun. We've been looking for the 10th planet(no Z. Sitchin references implied...) for a while, let's agree to have it!
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
[b] The naming sceme for large objects with there point of orbit as the sun is set by an international astonomy group (I forget the name). It states that these objects should be named after a creation deity. Quaoar is the creation force of the indian tribe (once again I forget names) in South California, where the astromers are from. [/b][/quote]
Californian indian tribes : Coos, Yurok, Shasta, Wiyot, Modoc, Yuki, Wintu, Pomo, Washoah, Maidu, Patwin, Miwok, Costanoan, Mono, Esselen, Panamint, Yokuts, Salinan, Chemehuevi, Mission, Chumash, Serrano, Gabrielino, Cahuilla, Mojave, Luiseno and Diegueno.
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Passive fields. January two thousand and twelve. A nation that stands alone. Cold voices, faces pale, Gathered unto their judgement day. Such words remain unspoken. Such pride remains unbroken. Just mothers to stand in vain and cry. Tears and medals in the rain. Shall I recall when justice did prevail? No reason to be found why reason did fail. The all clear resounding. The way was clear to rebuild this land. Shall I call on you to guide me well, To see our hopes and dreams fulfilled? On this day of our ascension.
VNV Nation - Honour
[b]
I agree. My conception of a Planet and a moon are based upon it's orbital parent.
If it orbits a star in a roughly circular path it is a planet in general terms. If it orbits an existing planet, then it is a moon.
Size should have some say, but not as strong a say as is being advocated. The asteroid belt orbits our sun, and is considered to be a failed planet in it's whole, so maybe the minimum size should be generally set to ~250-500 miles across in diameter or at least enough to generate a spherical body.
The size issue could also be taken the opposite direction by looking at Jupiter as a failed binary pair star rather than a planet, with it's own solar system. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I say make it a planet, it's big enough, has a ~circular orbit of the sun. We've been looking for the 10th planet(no Z. Sitchin references implied...) for a while, let's agree to have it!
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
I complitely agree! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
- PJH