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Real "Sci-Fi" Shielding

RandyRandy Master Storyteller
[url="http://www.rense.com/general28/frce.htm"]http://www.rense.com/general28/frce.htm[/url]

Comments

  • BekennBekenn Sinclair's Duck
    Yeah, right. I'll believe it when I see it. On someone else's site.

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    We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
  • JackNJackN <font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
    Tesla would be proud! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
  • PJHPJH The Lovely Thing
    Very interesting and sounds like a brilliant idea, but does it really work in reality? And is that website a reliable source? Any other websites/news sources telling about this?

    Tesla?

    - PJH
  • BekennBekenn Sinclair's Duck
    Free electricity for everybody!

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    We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
  • Drazi GuyDrazi Guy Elite Ranger
    [url="http://www.theregus.com/content/54/26023.html"]http://www.theregus.com/content/54/26023.html[/url]

    The Register ran the story a couple days ago...
  • BekennBekenn Sinclair's Duck
    There we go; that's more like it. A page with an actual link to the Telegraph article; now, I can believe it.

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    We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
  • PJHPJH The Lovely Thing
    Yup, now it seems believable.

    Well, that's quite an invention and will probably save many lives in the future, but it's not a force field like erroneously also called. It's indeed an electric armour.

    But I recall there was an actual force field in development too somewhere, which was supposed to intercept some kind of electronic weapons, or something in that direction IIRC and to a degree some solid matter as well. I wish I had the link saved somewhere. It might have been NASA's project. There was a thread about it in here once, anybody remember this?

    - PJH
  • JackNJackN <font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
    I bet it's a Flux-Capacitor!

    [i]"...many boffins died to bring us this information..."[/i]
  • RandyRandy Master Storyteller
    [quote]Originally posted by PJH:
    [b]Very interesting and sounds like a brilliant idea, but does it really work in reality? And is that website a reliable source? Any other websites/news sources telling about this?

    Tesla?

    - PJH[/b][/quote]

    At the very top of the article on the Rense site you can see that it was re-posted from The Daily Telegraph - London, By Michael Smith.

    [This message has been edited by Randy (edited 08-22-2002).]
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    Tesla! Nikola Tesla. One of the most amazing men I've ever had the pleasure of learning about.

    But this armor sure is a nifty invention. I'd love to see it in action. I'm sure some videos might pop up at some point.
  • Nikola Tesla... why I havn't gone by that name in.. a long time.. a long long time
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    [quote]Originally posted by PJH:
    [b]Yup, now it seems believable.

    Well, that's quite an invention and will probably save many lives in the future, but it's not a force field like erroneously also called. It's indeed an electric armour.

    But I recall there was an actual force field in development too somewhere, which was supposed to intercept some kind of electronic weapons, or something in that direction IIRC and to a degree some solid matter as well. I wish I had the link saved somewhere. It might have been NASA's project. There was a thread about it in here once, anybody remember this?

    - PJH[/b][/quote]

    I believe you're thinking of that ion shield thing that was posted about here some time ago.

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    [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Never eat anything bigger than your own head.[/url]
    "Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
  • shadow boxershadow boxer The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
    sounds like pretty good stuff... one problem... what happens when your shaped charge weapon carries a non counductive penetrator ??

    it wont be too long before someone finds a counter weapon... my guess is some sort of super ceramic or silica based thing.... molten glass is just as good as molten copper at ruining your day

    and whatever happened to that mad hairdresser guy in England ? ( I think)... found a way to apply a chemical to the outside of regular armour... once applied the kinetic energy of the incoming round created a microns thick layer of plasma or something... negatating the penetrative power of most weapons used against it...
  • Random ChaosRandom Chaos Actually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
    Wheee!

    Note...other sites with same story:
    [url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F08%2F19%2Fnmod19.xml"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F08%2F19%2Fnmod19.xml[/url]
    [url="http://www.washtimes.com/world/20020820-86081662.htm"]http://www.washtimes.com/world/20020820-86081662.htm[/url]
  • Falcon1Falcon1 Elite Ranger
    I think the designers will need to discuss their work with the Centauri as they have alot of experience with energy shields, especially with the Primus cruisers. However the Centauri were never able to compensate the huge power drain from these shields and the effects that they had on the gravimetric drive, propulsions, and weapons. Maybe the British scientists will be able to help the Centauri in exchange for some jumpgate technology?

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    'The future is all around us' G'kar
    'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen

    Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]www.NialB5.com[/url].
  • Random ChaosRandom Chaos Actually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
    LOL
  • Jon_SJon_S Earthforce Officer
    Shadow Boxer. While it is possible that someone will come up with a non-conductive penetrator, this armor will still have possitive effects.

    One reason that metals are used as penetrators is their superior density, so they have a harder punch than glass for a given velocity. A non-metalic penetrator will be less effective against the standard armor that the vehicle will still have to carry to protect itself from non-shaped charge weapons, like rifles and medium caliber solid ammo.

    Also even if a perfect non-conductive warhead was perfected this armor will continue to protect against the huge number of weapons already deployed throughout the world. So while it might not help much the next time you were involved in a fight with a major country that can affort to replace all its anti-vehicle weapons; this armor will be a great thing to have in ongoing low intensity or peacekeeping conflicts, where the weapons you are worried about are current RPGs that have already been produced.
  • C_MonC_Mon A Genuine Sucker
    Narf!
  • TyvarTyvar Next best thing to a St. Bernard
    Despite what the Article says the RPG-7 isnt that fercious of a weapon.

    The MBTS and heavier MCV's of most armies can already defeat it,it has a small warhead, and the actual penetration round is awfully damn small.

    After an RPG round went through a wall, (about 4cm of masonry is what Ive heard) the penetrator was stopped by a kevlar vest.

    The size and mass, and density of heavier penatrators means that unless you have ALOT of energy, there is no way in hell you can vaporize the penetrator, I mean the favorites now are depleted Uranium and for when thats over kill tungstun, both are denser then copper and have a higher melting point (if I rember right), so stopping those is still a matter of having your own dense mass that likes staying together

    (side note, the M1A1 includes DU as part of the armor, thus explaining why the damn things are impossible to destroy)

    All the official government documentation Ive seen gives the RPG a penetration rating of some 600 millimeters of cold rolled steel when it hits straight on, if you have an angle, its much less effective.

    Does mean the smaller AT missles wont be that effective though, so everybody is going to have to switch back to bigger MBT's instead of light tanks, running heavier guns.

    Or go for railguns, the US army is talking about fielding them on tanks in about 10 years [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
  • shadow boxershadow boxer The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
    sure.. ceramics suck in terms of weight and density... the point was no shield/armour, is ever going to stop everything...

    as far as a new breed of lighter tanks... nope.... too expensive... you simply do as the british have done.. spead out the heavies you have over your lighter ones... mixed cadres of armour, seeing that now your APC's etc have a good survivability rate...

    until they run over a tank mine, or a down looking missile hits them, or someone drops a couple stick of good ole powergel on something important...or blows half a mountain down on top of them...

    and it doesnt matter how much armour you have if the troop door is open....

    nothing is infallible....
  • RandyRandy Master Storyteller
    Not even the Firstones.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    We're just the closest thing there is to it. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]

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    [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Never eat anything bigger than your own head.[/url]
    "Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
  • PJHPJH The Lovely Thing
    [quote]Originally posted by Biggles:
    [b]I believe you're thinking of that ion shield thing that was posted about here some time ago.[/b][/quote]

    Yup, that must have been it.

    - PJH
  • TyvarTyvar Next best thing to a St. Bernard
    Yeah, and there are always ways for tankers to change their strategies to minimize those risks, and rule number one of armor since wwII is to operate in a combined arms unit.

    I still think the heavies have a place, becaus when properly supported by infantry and artillary, they are damn hard to stop without your own heavy tanks, or command of the air (and the state of battlefield AA makes direct support almost suicide these days)
  • [quote]Originally posted by shadow boxer:
    [b]sure.. ceramics suck in terms of weight and density... the point was no shield/armour, is ever going to stop everything...

    as far as a new breed of lighter tanks... nope.... too expensive... you simply do as the british have done.. spead out the heavies you have over your lighter ones... mixed cadres of armour, seeing that now your APC's etc have a good survivability rate...

    until they run over a tank mine, or a down looking missile hits them, or someone drops a couple stick of good ole powergel on something important...or blows half a mountain down on top of them...

    and it doesnt matter how much armour you have if the troop door is open....

    nothing is infallible....[/b][/quote]

    A more detailed article in the press over here in the UK was a bit more helpful. The conductivity of the shell is actually irrelivant, because the circuit is made by the deformation of the outer plate onto the inner plate on impact. Each plate subsection is individually earthed and isolated so that after the initial shock (vapourising any incurring object - conductive or not, simply due to the heat exchange), that section is deactivated allowing the other plates to carry on protecting the tank. Think of it like a circuit breaker that has a built in delay.

    To be honest, the bit that shocked (sorry) me, was the fact that the system was entirely powered by the tanks normal power source, with no extra power cells or anythink. I can only guess that it must be some form of ultra high amp, low voltage swap?



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    possibly futile, but very human.
  • Actually, it would be a TON of voltage, simlar to a stun gun, it just makes a HUGE spark that flash vaporizes things...some of those stun guns have 100k volts off of 8 AA batteries..

    Yeah, the M1A1 and now the M2A2 are actually steel incased DU armor, and it can go 65 on a level field..they are insane.

    Tungston is a popular one because it's HARD, had a decent mass, and it takes a HUGE amount of energy to change it's temperature, something along the lines of around 4x the amount of energy it takes to heat water, which is one of the highest "common" substances in terms of how much energy it takes to change it's temp (think about boiling water, or just heating an electric element to 212 degrees F..the metal will get that hot very quickly in comparison). Which means it can pierce a target w/o deformation from the impact or from the heat generated..tip a DU slug with that, and you can see how the A10's 30mm gun can slice any tank in half almost instantly. The combination of a hard, non deforming tip and the huge mass is devistating.

    [This message has been edited by Keyan (edited 08-26-2002).]
  • shadow boxershadow boxer The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
    theres also another basic thing to consider..... brought up by the last two posts... overwhelming the targets system... double tapping two rounds into the same plate... or in the case of the Vulcan cannon... 3000...

    tungsten penetrators have been around for donkeys... the Germans used them to great effect during WW2... only a starvation of supply of raw materials stopped them from using them all the time.

    the worst thing you can do is rely solely on technology...

    the best Tankers in the world are the Israeli's.... why ?

    because they used the most old fashioned ways of fighting... scads of them died in combat because their commanders always left thier hatches up while they fought... eyeball to eyeball.. binocular to binocular.

    its a shame the Merkava has such a nasty shot trap betwixt hull and turret.
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