[QUOTE=Biggles;186551]Well, first of all, I think you are wrong: if the story is not true (and it's not based on a true story) then no matter how many facts are used, it's still fiction.[/QUOTE]
I'd say the difference between fact and fiction is not clear cut. Who can claim to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? :D
I'll check it out, even if it may be a bit convoluted.
[QUOTE=Biggles;186551]And secondly, there's not much science in Primer.[/QUOTE]
And honestly, not much sense, either. It ended up being a fairly unsatisfying and frustrating movie for me. Mostly due to the level of complexity going well beyond the point of reason, where even three sequential redraws of the whiteboard couldn't manage to make a sound enough timeline. Exercises in frustration aren't quite my cup of tea. It's all far too much effort for something with relatively little payoff and feels like it was explicitly designed to give some people the ability to act elitist for "better understanding" the true intentions of the plot (not that I've actually seen it happen, but it just carries that vibe).
Similarly, Sunshine holds a very rare place in my heart for a movie that has so much potential, but just plain manages to undermine nearly all of it by having a ridiculous, completely unnecessary, and straight-up nonsensical plot twist. Half of the movie is done up extremely well in one genre, while the rest is a mindlessly shuffled mess shoved into another entirely. Also, it has an awesome score that has been in regular playlist rotation since I first heard it. It's a shame that the end result is such a lovely idea rounded down so much as to become a shitty flick that requires an excuse to watch.
Tangent: You know what was a really unexpectedly good light-scifi movie? Stranger Than Fiction. I loved everything about it. The acting was all so very well done, the writing was good to great, the soundtrack and score were both well-done, and very little felt out of place. I gladly watch that movie repeatedly without any less enjoyment. Leave it to a comedian to do a role of that sort justice.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE=Sanfam;186556]And honestly, not much sense, either. It ended up being a fairly unsatisfying and frustrating movie for me. Mostly due to the level of complexity going well beyond the point of reason, where even three sequential redraws of the whiteboard couldn't manage to make a sound enough timeline. Exercises in frustration aren't quite my cup of tea. It's all far too much effort for something with relatively little payoff and feels like it was explicitly designed to give some people the ability to act elitist for "better understanding" the true intentions of the plot (not that I've actually seen it happen, but it just carries that vibe).[/quote]
I found it confusing as hell and didn't have a clue what really happened, but I liked it for that reason. It was a different sort of experience from the usual. I felt like an outside observer would seeing these two guys doing all the stuff they did.
[quote]Similarly, Sunshine holds a very rare place in my heart for a movie that has so much potential, but just plain manages to undermine nearly all of it by having a ridiculous, completely unnecessary, and straight-up nonsensical plot twist.[/QUOTE]
The first half of Sunshine is awesome. The second half is bizarre.
[QUOTE=Messiah;186491]While is not very old, [url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462465/]Outlander[/url] is actually [B]prey[/B] cool.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you got the [B]prey[/B] part right. I agree, it's an underrated film and certainly deserves a better rating than 6.4/10.
While it takes many concepts from different films to create a new one, it's original enough to make it enjoyable. Certain scenes reminded me of [I]Predator, Conan the Barbarian, LotR, Planet of the Apes, Beowulf, Highlander[/I].
Ron Perlman is incredible, he doesn't get much screen time but he's always memorable. I can't get enough of his antics. :D
[QUOTE=ShadowDancer;186459]Pretty recent, but The Fountain is a favourite of mine[/QUOTE]
[I]The Fountain[/I] is a beautiful movie but it's not what I would call [I]scifi[/I]. It's listed as such on IMDb and there's nothing I can do about that. We had this discussion before and IIRC we agreed to disagree on the subject matter.
Traveling through space inside a bubble with a tree does not make it [I]scifi[/I]. Where are the lasers, the robots, the funky displays, the leaking airlocks, the cruel aliens or beasts, the sophisticated gadgetry, the clunky high-tech space ships?
In [I]the Fountain[/I] we saw a metaphor of the evolution of man, his striving for his never-ending quest to eternal life. This has nothing to do with [I]scifi[/I]. I refuse to use the term as a garbage variable for anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
[I]The Fountain[/I] has three parallel plots, [sp]the first is the one with the research scientist/surgeon who desperately wants to find a cure for his dying wife. The second plot is the story of the unfinished book his wife wrote with the scientist/surgeon as the main protagonist. The third plot is the metaphor mentioned above.[/sp] Again, [I]scifi[/I] is nowhere to be found.
Still, [I]the Fountain[/I] is indeed a beautiful piece of art, just like [I]300[/I], minus the overdose of violence.
[QUOTE=Stingray;186564]
Ron Perlman is incredible, he doesn't get much screen time but he's always memorable. I can't get enough of his antics. :D[/QUOTE]
If you are into the Brazil/12 Monkeys vision of the future, there is an interesting little french film with Perlman called [URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112682/"]La cité des enfants perdus (City of Lost Children)[/URL]. Very interesting kinda steampunk, alternate reality film.
BTW, there is two more movies to add to your viewing list:
[URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/"]Brazil[/URL] and of course [URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/"]12 Monkeys[/URL], both by Terry Gilliam. Of the two Brazil is the better film, though 12 Monkeys is more enjoyable.
Jake
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
Really? I definitely class it as scifi. Not all of it has to involve ships, robots and lasers. The travelling through space to Xibalba is an integral part of the plot, and ok nothing really happens in space, but it is an integral plot device for the story. I think we'll have to continue agreeing to disagree ;)
As for the plots, my interpretation was [sp]the Conquistador and the 'present day bits' was as you say, the story his wife wrote and he's finishing and his search for a cure. The travelling through space bit seemed to me to be his future. He's taking the tree he planted over his wife's grave to Xibalba in the hope of rebirth for both of them.[/sp] Anyway, it seems to me to be pretty existential stuff, which ok has only a small amount of scifi in it, but its a plot enabler, which is really what scifi is all about.
So every movie featuring a starry night sky or someone dreaming about space is to be considered [I]scifi[/I]? I think not. So yes, I disagree. :D
I don't believe that the other two plots (the conquistador Jackman and bald Jackman) actually happened in the movie because nothing in the "real" plot indicates that they have the capability to send anyone into space in a bubble with a tree. :D It's a spiritual and as you correctly said existential thing or as I said metaphor. The bits in the Mayan temples are scenes taken out of his dying wife's manuscript.
Don't get me wrong, not all [I]scifi[/I] flick needs to have all those ingredients, but they need to have some. Not saying that these ingredients can be reduced to a formula but you get the idea.
I'll have to check out [I]Brazil[/I] and [I]City of Lost Children[/I]. I saw [I]12 Monkeys[/I] a long time ago. It wasn't too bad even though not Bruce Willis' best work.
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
It's ok Stingray, you're allowed to be wrong once in a while! :p
I didn't realise Ron Perlman was in Outlander, I'll have to bump that movie up my list now :)
[QUOTE=Stingray;186564]Yeah, you got the [B]prey[/B] part right. I agree, it's an underrated film and certainly deserves a better rating than 6.4/10.[/QUOTE]
I think Ive said before that my dads apple keyboard sucks, especially the t-key, so when Im at their place, ts will be missing. :p
12 monkeys is one of my favourite movies of all time, but I havent seen Brazil, Ill have to check that out.
Brazil is a lovingly assembled dystopian world. Just make sure you see Gilliam's preferred version, not the crappy US Release variant. It's a perfect case for why modifying a conclusion in even the slightest way is a recipe for complete and utter dissatisfaction.
Artificial Intelligence is SciFi, yet it has nothing to do with space, spaceships, etc. I guess the "robots" portion qualifies it ?
Anyway, the Fountain I would very much put in the Fantasy realm rather than SciFi. But hey, when we get paid programming and Wrestling on the SciFi (oh excuse me SyFy) channel now who knows what really belongs where anymore anyway...
I don't think anyone here would seriously equate Syfy programming to scifi. :D
Some people refer to the Star Wars saga as fantasy as well... apparently because it's supposed to have happened a long time ago... but compared to our own level of technical evolution, it's scifi.
12 monkeys is a great film, I actually like Bruce Willis in it, at the time he was a big action star, and for him to take a role like that was a risk, Plus Brad Pitt has one of his best roles ever in it. he plays a throughly convicing crazy dude!
So I watched [I]Brazil[/I] and as expected it was totally wacky. I liked the performances and the bureaucratic and other nonsense, but I thought the ending should have stuck with Sam Lowry's fantasy and not with him loosing his mind. I mean becoming insane in an insane world is a bit much to behold. Great film even though it's quite a lot to digest in one sitting.
As for it being [I]scifi,[/I] even though it's Utopian in scale and very reminiscent of 1984 featuring mankind's obsession with technology, I'm not quite sure. If I had to classify this film I'd put it in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro-futurism"]retro-futurism[/URL] category (just for laughs). :D
Comments
I'd say the difference between fact and fiction is not clear cut. Who can claim to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? :D
I'll check it out, even if it may be a bit convoluted.
And honestly, not much sense, either. It ended up being a fairly unsatisfying and frustrating movie for me. Mostly due to the level of complexity going well beyond the point of reason, where even three sequential redraws of the whiteboard couldn't manage to make a sound enough timeline. Exercises in frustration aren't quite my cup of tea. It's all far too much effort for something with relatively little payoff and feels like it was explicitly designed to give some people the ability to act elitist for "better understanding" the true intentions of the plot (not that I've actually seen it happen, but it just carries that vibe).
Similarly, Sunshine holds a very rare place in my heart for a movie that has so much potential, but just plain manages to undermine nearly all of it by having a ridiculous, completely unnecessary, and straight-up nonsensical plot twist. Half of the movie is done up extremely well in one genre, while the rest is a mindlessly shuffled mess shoved into another entirely. Also, it has an awesome score that has been in regular playlist rotation since I first heard it. It's a shame that the end result is such a lovely idea rounded down so much as to become a shitty flick that requires an excuse to watch.
Tangent: You know what was a really unexpectedly good light-scifi movie? Stranger Than Fiction. I loved everything about it. The acting was all so very well done, the writing was good to great, the soundtrack and score were both well-done, and very little felt out of place. I gladly watch that movie repeatedly without any less enjoyment. Leave it to a comedian to do a role of that sort justice.
I found it confusing as hell and didn't have a clue what really happened, but I liked it for that reason. It was a different sort of experience from the usual. I felt like an outside observer would seeing these two guys doing all the stuff they did.
[quote]Similarly, Sunshine holds a very rare place in my heart for a movie that has so much potential, but just plain manages to undermine nearly all of it by having a ridiculous, completely unnecessary, and straight-up nonsensical plot twist.[/QUOTE]
The first half of Sunshine is awesome. The second half is bizarre.
Yeah, you got the [B]prey[/B] part right. I agree, it's an underrated film and certainly deserves a better rating than 6.4/10.
While it takes many concepts from different films to create a new one, it's original enough to make it enjoyable. Certain scenes reminded me of [I]Predator, Conan the Barbarian, LotR, Planet of the Apes, Beowulf, Highlander[/I].
Ron Perlman is incredible, he doesn't get much screen time but he's always memorable. I can't get enough of his antics. :D
[I]The Fountain[/I] is a beautiful movie but it's not what I would call [I]scifi[/I]. It's listed as such on IMDb and there's nothing I can do about that. We had this discussion before and IIRC we agreed to disagree on the subject matter.
Traveling through space inside a bubble with a tree does not make it [I]scifi[/I]. Where are the lasers, the robots, the funky displays, the leaking airlocks, the cruel aliens or beasts, the sophisticated gadgetry, the clunky high-tech space ships?
In [I]the Fountain[/I] we saw a metaphor of the evolution of man, his striving for his never-ending quest to eternal life. This has nothing to do with [I]scifi[/I]. I refuse to use the term as a garbage variable for anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.
[I]The Fountain[/I] has three parallel plots, [sp]the first is the one with the research scientist/surgeon who desperately wants to find a cure for his dying wife. The second plot is the story of the unfinished book his wife wrote with the scientist/surgeon as the main protagonist. The third plot is the metaphor mentioned above.[/sp] Again, [I]scifi[/I] is nowhere to be found.
Still, [I]the Fountain[/I] is indeed a beautiful piece of art, just like [I]300[/I], minus the overdose of violence.
Ron Perlman is incredible, he doesn't get much screen time but he's always memorable. I can't get enough of his antics. :D[/QUOTE]
If you are into the Brazil/12 Monkeys vision of the future, there is an interesting little french film with Perlman called [URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112682/"]La cité des enfants perdus (City of Lost Children)[/URL]. Very interesting kinda steampunk, alternate reality film.
BTW, there is two more movies to add to your viewing list:
[URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/"]Brazil[/URL] and of course [URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/"]12 Monkeys[/URL], both by Terry Gilliam. Of the two Brazil is the better film, though 12 Monkeys is more enjoyable.
Jake
As for the plots, my interpretation was [sp]the Conquistador and the 'present day bits' was as you say, the story his wife wrote and he's finishing and his search for a cure. The travelling through space bit seemed to me to be his future. He's taking the tree he planted over his wife's grave to Xibalba in the hope of rebirth for both of them.[/sp] Anyway, it seems to me to be pretty existential stuff, which ok has only a small amount of scifi in it, but its a plot enabler, which is really what scifi is all about.
So basically I still disagree! :p
I don't believe that the other two plots (the conquistador Jackman and bald Jackman) actually happened in the movie because nothing in the "real" plot indicates that they have the capability to send anyone into space in a bubble with a tree. :D It's a spiritual and as you correctly said existential thing or as I said metaphor. The bits in the Mayan temples are scenes taken out of his dying wife's manuscript.
[I]Outlander[/I] is [I]scifi[/I]. Spaceships? Check! Futuristic gear? Check! Alien monsters? Check! Unadulterated spaceship battles? Check!
Don't get me wrong, not all [I]scifi[/I] flick needs to have all those ingredients, but they need to have some. Not saying that these ingredients can be reduced to a formula but you get the idea.
I'll have to check out [I]Brazil[/I] and [I]City of Lost Children[/I]. I saw [I]12 Monkeys[/I] a long time ago. It wasn't too bad even though not Bruce Willis' best work.
I didn't realise Ron Perlman was in Outlander, I'll have to bump that movie up my list now :)
I think Ive said before that my dads apple keyboard sucks, especially the t-key, so when Im at their place, ts will be missing. :p
12 monkeys is one of my favourite movies of all time, but I havent seen Brazil, Ill have to check that out.
Anyway, the Fountain I would very much put in the Fantasy realm rather than SciFi. But hey, when we get paid programming and Wrestling on the SciFi (oh excuse me SyFy) channel now who knows what really belongs where anymore anyway...
Some people refer to the Star Wars saga as fantasy as well... apparently because it's supposed to have happened a long time ago... but compared to our own level of technical evolution, it's scifi.
As for it being [I]scifi,[/I] even though it's Utopian in scale and very reminiscent of 1984 featuring mankind's obsession with technology, I'm not quite sure. If I had to classify this film I'd put it in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro-futurism"]retro-futurism[/URL] category (just for laughs). :D
Jake
Jake[/QUOTE]
Two reasons:
Originally Film, and practical models... ;)
-R.
It's funny how time flies. I was talking with Dan last night, and inevitably, ItF came up, and we both said, "wow...has it really been 10 years?"
It's great to see that FirstOnes endures, and so many good people are still here.
-R.
PS: I think you and I and A2597 are the only ones with static avatars ;)
*sigh*
But it's good to see you around Rick :)
Worf
The good news is I'm working on getting back in the production chair, so, hopefully, you'll see more of me soon.
-R.
Life for me is far too busy. Too many long-distance business trips. It'd be nice to spend more than a couple of months at home at a stretch...
-R.[/QUOTE]
I certainly feel like one these days... ;) :D