thats....freaky!
Hey, if ANYONE knows who writes this, tell him THANK YOU!!!!
------------------
[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Ohhh this is good!
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
hmmm, I was expecting a much more 'party line' than that from the author, ie I expected the storyarc from the game to be basically a real 'tassel on the rug', not a partial re-weave...
good to see... I like bending things alot... it seems I'm not alone
I guess the way the story is going leaves alot more open to genuine writing rather than Claytons ghost writing...and alot more freedom to put all sorts of ships up against all sorts of others...
I wonder if this story thread returns to the one we know from the series... ? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img] Diving into the story... right now. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
We are one. No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one.
No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.
- Alliance Preamble to the Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals
Webmaster [url="http://www.Sprungtor.de"]www.Sprungtor.de[/url]
If this person’s version of the story was the sim, it would represent one possible path out of many - it would have been possible to get the B5 universe quite crossed up - even terminal (for the player). It would have been possible to screw with Dilgar history, Minbari history, Centauri history, Narn history and Earth Civil War history. It would also have been possible to stay within the original universe and not deal with parallel universes. Missions to Sector 14 were not optional (in that you are ordered there), but going into the anomaly was optional, except for the first time. All changes to history of course also have various ramifications for the present time. The player comes back to present time to find that alliances and resources are changed.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 11-26-2001).]
Wait, I think there's a typo, or some bad news for the [i]Artemis[/i] and her crew.
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
When they get back and Bone-, that is, Max, reports that he took care of the Dilgar, the captian replys that the Dilgar are extinct. But from the data Max gets, the Dilgar are still around.
So, is this a simple typo, or are the crew of the [i]Artemis[/i] stuck with the memories of the prime universe, therefore meaning that when they check the records, their going to be in for a nasty bit of culture shock.
Also, one more question. How is everyone in the right place? Thirty odd years is a long time, so how did they get back to their time mostly intact? I mean, John Sheridan is still presedent, apparently Sinclair went back in time with B4, meaning that they still had to build at least five stations, possibly more. Since the funding provided by the Narn and the Minbari would likely be a bit bigger then the bailout provided by the Centuri and the Minbari for B5, I'm assuming thats going to be fancier in some way. And I'm wondering where Londo and G'Kar are, since a lot of their futures depended hevily on happenstance.
But what's truly bothering me is how Sinclair could have found out as the reincarnated Valen and thus made leader of the Rangers and conned into going back in time without an intragation at the Battle of the Line.
Lord, I would have played this game a hundred times just to read a semi-detailded history of each timeline.
[This message has been edited by David of Mac (edited 11-26-2001).]
Were I playing this, I personally would do everything I could to screw up the universe, no matter what the consequences. Just for fun.
How much could things change when you return? Could you possibly end up in another area, or with another rank? If you go to sector 14 as a captain of a destroyer, could you lead a campaign in the past, or would you be returned to the present by the anomoly automatically?
And how was the first time not optional?
I know similar questions have been asked before, but what might have happened if you helped an enemy, or more interesting still, a future enemy? Or should I just go and try to read through the rest of that huge thread that started out about the ItF campaign?
David of Mac: I suspect a version control problem. If so, maybe it'll get fixed. I doubt the author has a QA team - except for the folks at FirstOnes. LOL.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 11-26-2001).]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
I'm quite happy to be QA. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[quote]Originally posted by Randy:
[b](...) All changes to history of course also have various ramifications for the present time. The player comes back to present time to find that alliances and resources are changed.
[/b][/quote]
*LoH bursts into tears*
I *W*A*N*T* that game!!! Why the heck would someone be so dimwitted to cancel such a game... with story ideas every adventure style game would be proud of? Ahhhhh.... that hurts!
------------------
We are one. No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one.
No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.
- Alliance Preamble to the Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals
Webmaster [url="http://www.Sprungtor.de"]www.Sprungtor.de[/url]
on a philosophical note, I reckon there is a storyline to the real universe... a basic direction that even the galaxy pays heed to, its only the little details that anything or anyone has control over...
for instance; we as a race were always going to have a World War or two, no matter if Adolf was even born, or the Kaiser for that matter. various predisposing factors, conditions etc made it virtually impossible to avoid...
basically the universe has a 'riverbed', a timeline we all follow...by sheer will we can bust out of them... but we eventually return to them... some things are meant to be...
its like some of the stories you hear about people pre-saging thier own deaths... then avoiding it somehow... like dying in a plane crash... but skipping the flight... only to get hit by the bus outside the terminal...
we only have a very limited control over our own destinies...
[i]Ohh look now I've gone crosseyed[/i]; Austin [b]Danger[/b] Powers
In my mind there are two ways of looking at time travel and its effects on the universe:
A:The timeline of everthing is preset and by traveling back and changing something you have only done what was according to the "plan". Not that I saying someone planned everything out, but that everything you do is what is supposed to happen.
B: A very fluid view of time, that is travels in specific direction until acted on by some force. ie you travel back and smash some early mammal in the prehistoric period and humans do not ever evolve.
------------------
[i]This is crazy. I hope I haven't brain my damaged.[/i]
I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Yeah outcomes are easy to mess with when fooling around in time.
For example, by entering the Sector 14 anomoly, someone can stumble into the past, visit Sierra, cause the original CEO presidential candidate to miss his interview, and force them to hire some goofball who cancels thoe whole simulation project.
The fans in the future find themselves without a sim, and only the memories of what was supposed to be...
Naturally we had to find a way to limit variables in order to maintain a realistic game size. The rationalization I had in mind at the time was this:
The overt path of history is an average of a complicated, fluid matrix of interrelated actions. The flow of events has a directional force. Small changes to the past will change the details of history, but not the flow of events. One would expect small changes to create small historical threads that can only be read in the fine details. Some of these threads would lead to a dead end, and not have a noticeable effect on the outcome of history. Others would indeed create changes that we could see.
Many things came together to create B5 history as we know it. The player’s brief actions in one battle of a greater war should not drastically change the historical flow of events.
I also tried to keep in mind the amount of time since the change in history. If a relatively small amount of time had passed since the small change to the past, then the flow of events would create generally the same history. If a great deal of time had passed since a small change to history, a larger effect would be seen, because the change, though small, had had more time to spread out, like a ripple on water, and affect a more noticeable outcome.
On the other hand, when the player has a battle group at his command, takes the entire battle group back in time through the anomaly, and has a drastic and decisive effect on a major historical battle, then we would expect to see a drastically different outcome in history.
Finally, we needed (for practical reasons) to have only three options available as historical outcomes for each of the historical threads that could be effected in the game: no change, a new history in which we find changes in affiliations, general history and military strength, or a terminal outcome in which the player comes back to find a universe that is incompatible with his continued existence – in other words, there’s no EA, no IA, no jumpgate at Sector 14, and everybody who’s left in the universe would shoot him, and whoever he’s got with him, on sight.
[quote]Originally posted by JackN:
[b]Yeah outcomes are easy to mess with when fooling around in time.
For example, by entering the Sector 14 anomoly, someone can stumble into the past, visit Sierra, cause the original CEO presidential candidate to miss his interview, and force them to hire some goofball who cancels thoe whole simulation project.
The fans in the future find themselves without a sim, and only the memories of what was supposed to be...
Randy, Please convey our greatest appreciation to the author. Even within the game's known (to you) narrative framework, I understand it's no easy matter to create text that brings to life such rich and well-rounded images as in this story.
Although I've tried to avoid discussing the events described in the latest Journal entry, the rest of this post, by its very nature begs the question about how it ends up. Those who haven't yet read it should take the time now, or suffer the consequences.
[url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url]
If you haven't read all of it from the start [30 December 2263], you must read the archives: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/archive.stm."]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/archive.stm.[/url] As Biggles says: It's Required.
Time travel always opens a huge can of Pandora's. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img] I declare now that I'm strongly on the side of 'you went back in time because you [b]always[/b] went back in time' as per most of B5 cannon. I realise this might not be possible in a truly dynamic game. However, I'd suggest as part of the QA team (my day job [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]) that certain things should be designed as pretty close to immutable. For example, the player has to perform actions violently inconsistent with his character to prevent the Battle of the Line.
I'm also of the opinion that events, as well as people can be Nexuses. In chronological order (SPOILER ALERT), my candidates would be: The death of Dukhat, the Battle of the Line, Bablyon 5's construction, Draal running the Great Machine, Santiago's death, The Fall of Narn, Valen's return to B4, Sheridan's death at Z'ha'dum, The Battle at Coriana 6, Earth's Civil War, Londo's Imperium, The Fall of Centauri Prime, Minbar's Civil War, The Telepath War, The Drakh Plague, G'Kar & Londo's deaths, Vir's Imperium, Sheridan's Apotheosis, Babylon 5's fiery end, Humanity's eventual rise to 'First-One-hood' (mostly deaths and battles, depressingly). If the game could intelligently force history back through these Nexuses, changes could occur, without destroying reality. Maybe Draal makes you go back again if your actions divert history around a Nexus?
Btw, there's a strong argument (IMHO) that Sinclair was Valen only because he was picked up at the Battle of the Line. The Minbari only ceased when they discovered the pilot they took onboard shared Valen's soul. If it hadn't been Valen, the Human Race would have been exterminated. Only because he was Valen, Sinclair was appointed B5's Commander and then Ranger One. He only took B4 back in time because of a letter from himself. Therefore, whoever was taken aboard the Grey Council ship was destined to be Valen. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/vsml.gif[/img]
I think the problem with a smaller Dilgar War preventing the Earth-Minbari War is that too much 'Fate' needs to be invoked after each Sector 14 Mission to get any of the Universe's original state back to anything like its true position, B5's situation, Earth's situation, the Interstellar alliance formation, let alone having Max's squadron on patrol. I don't want to miss out on the re-gathering darkness that's holding the attention of the Whitestars just because the Shadows didn't leave yet.
I agree it would be cool if the player could set themself up to lead the Army of Light and smack down the First Ones instead of Sheridan, but I'd prefer to leave that until after I'd played the game the whole way through first, properly. Perhaps there could have been a 'Strong Fate' v 'Weak Fate' setting designed into the game, so that history wouldn't change, no matter what the player does. Perhaps in 'Strong Fate' Draal could act as 'Second Foundation' repairing history to the correct path.
Finally, I wonder if Max would perform his actions over again had he the chance (as he does in a replayable ITF environment)? His good intentions may have led to severe damage to everything he holds dear. If you had the chance to go back in time and shoot Hitler dead, before he came to power, would you do it? My view is no; without downplaying the horror of one of Humanity's Darkest hours, we can never know whether the alternatives are worse. There are countless stories & movies on the theme 'What if the Nazis won?', mainly because they came so close. We know what the world is like now. The infinite alternatives must contain many far more imperfect.
Anyway, to finish up this run-away post, Max might not have an option. If he did the opposite in his last mission (attack the Narn), of even if he simply turned around and went back home, the Non-aligned Worlds might have banded together against Earth in retaliation, leading to the destruction of Earth before they came into contact with the Minbari! Limited foreknowledge is worse than none at all.
I guess we have to be glad that while we're (hopefully) doing 'whatever seems right at each moment', we don't KNOW the outcomes of our choices. Maybe we'd all go mad. More mad, anyway.
"If what we do doesn't matter; then all that matters is what we do."
Thanks again to JMS and the Journal's Author.
------------------
[i]"I have looked into the darkness, Na'Toth. You cannot do that and ever be quite the same again."
All around us, it was as if the Universe were holding its breath... waiting. All of life can be broken down into moments of transition or moments...of revelation. This had the feeling of both."
"G'Quan wrote: 'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against Chaos and Despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"[/i]
I keep telling you people that some whacked out aliens with glowing red eyes are warping history so the Big Bad Darkness doesn't leave forever. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Those big meanies!
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Comments
------------------
Babylon6 in orbit @ [url="http://www.nomad-jedi.com"]http://www.nomad-jedi.com/[/url]
[b]Check out the writing skills of this person: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
[This message has been edited by Biggles (edited 11-26-2001).]
Hey, if ANYONE knows who writes this, tell him THANK YOU!!!!
------------------
[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
good to see... I like bending things alot... it seems I'm not alone
I guess the way the story is going leaves alot more open to genuine writing rather than Claytons ghost writing...and alot more freedom to put all sorts of ships up against all sorts of others...
I wonder if this story thread returns to the one we know from the series... ? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
**gentle applause for the author**
------------------
We are one. No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one.
No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.
- Alliance Preamble to the Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals
Webmaster [url="http://www.Sprungtor.de"]www.Sprungtor.de[/url]
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 11-26-2001).]
*runs off to his own little corner to hide before he gets hit by the PowerFWAPP™
------------------
[i]This is crazy. I hope I haven't brain my damaged.[/i]
I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
------------------
Is bad....is bad to open airlock in space... air go out like WOOSH!
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
When they get back and Bone-, that is, Max, reports that he took care of the Dilgar, the captian replys that the Dilgar are extinct. But from the data Max gets, the Dilgar are still around.
So, is this a simple typo, or are the crew of the [i]Artemis[/i] stuck with the memories of the prime universe, therefore meaning that when they check the records, their going to be in for a nasty bit of culture shock.
Also, one more question. How is everyone in the right place? Thirty odd years is a long time, so how did they get back to their time mostly intact? I mean, John Sheridan is still presedent, apparently Sinclair went back in time with B4, meaning that they still had to build at least five stations, possibly more. Since the funding provided by the Narn and the Minbari would likely be a bit bigger then the bailout provided by the Centuri and the Minbari for B5, I'm assuming thats going to be fancier in some way. And I'm wondering where Londo and G'Kar are, since a lot of their futures depended hevily on happenstance.
But what's truly bothering me is how Sinclair could have found out as the reincarnated Valen and thus made leader of the Rangers and conned into going back in time without an intragation at the Battle of the Line.
Lord, I would have played this game a hundred times just to read a semi-detailded history of each timeline.
[This message has been edited by David of Mac (edited 11-26-2001).]
How much could things change when you return? Could you possibly end up in another area, or with another rank? If you go to sector 14 as a captain of a destroyer, could you lead a campaign in the past, or would you be returned to the present by the anomoly automatically?
And how was the first time not optional?
I know similar questions have been asked before, but what might have happened if you helped an enemy, or more interesting still, a future enemy? Or should I just go and try to read through the rest of that huge thread that started out about the ItF campaign?
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 11-26-2001).]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b](...) All changes to history of course also have various ramifications for the present time. The player comes back to present time to find that alliances and resources are changed.
[/b][/quote]
*LoH bursts into tears*
I *W*A*N*T* that game!!! Why the heck would someone be so dimwitted to cancel such a game... with story ideas every adventure style game would be proud of? Ahhhhh.... that hurts!
------------------
We are one. No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one.
No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.
- Alliance Preamble to the Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals
Webmaster [url="http://www.Sprungtor.de"]www.Sprungtor.de[/url]
------------------
'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
countless StarTrek episodes have you tying your mind up in knots trying to deal with the timeline going spaz...
for instance; we as a race were always going to have a World War or two, no matter if Adolf was even born, or the Kaiser for that matter. various predisposing factors, conditions etc made it virtually impossible to avoid...
basically the universe has a 'riverbed', a timeline we all follow...by sheer will we can bust out of them... but we eventually return to them... some things are meant to be...
its like some of the stories you hear about people pre-saging thier own deaths... then avoiding it somehow... like dying in a plane crash... but skipping the flight... only to get hit by the bus outside the terminal...
we only have a very limited control over our own destinies...
In my mind there are two ways of looking at time travel and its effects on the universe:
A:The timeline of everthing is preset and by traveling back and changing something you have only done what was according to the "plan". Not that I saying someone planned everything out, but that everything you do is what is supposed to happen.
B: A very fluid view of time, that is travels in specific direction until acted on by some force. ie you travel back and smash some early mammal in the prehistoric period and humans do not ever evolve.
------------------
[i]This is crazy. I hope I haven't brain my damaged.[/i]
I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
For example, by entering the Sector 14 anomoly, someone can stumble into the past, visit Sierra, cause the original CEO presidential candidate to miss his interview, and force them to hire some goofball who cancels thoe whole simulation project.
The fans in the future find themselves without a sim, and only the memories of what was supposed to be...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
The overt path of history is an average of a complicated, fluid matrix of interrelated actions. The flow of events has a directional force. Small changes to the past will change the details of history, but not the flow of events. One would expect small changes to create small historical threads that can only be read in the fine details. Some of these threads would lead to a dead end, and not have a noticeable effect on the outcome of history. Others would indeed create changes that we could see.
Many things came together to create B5 history as we know it. The player’s brief actions in one battle of a greater war should not drastically change the historical flow of events.
I also tried to keep in mind the amount of time since the change in history. If a relatively small amount of time had passed since the small change to the past, then the flow of events would create generally the same history. If a great deal of time had passed since a small change to history, a larger effect would be seen, because the change, though small, had had more time to spread out, like a ripple on water, and affect a more noticeable outcome.
On the other hand, when the player has a battle group at his command, takes the entire battle group back in time through the anomaly, and has a drastic and decisive effect on a major historical battle, then we would expect to see a drastically different outcome in history.
Finally, we needed (for practical reasons) to have only three options available as historical outcomes for each of the historical threads that could be effected in the game: no change, a new history in which we find changes in affiliations, general history and military strength, or a terminal outcome in which the player comes back to find a universe that is incompatible with his continued existence – in other words, there’s no EA, no IA, no jumpgate at Sector 14, and everybody who’s left in the universe would shoot him, and whoever he’s got with him, on sight.
[b]Yeah outcomes are easy to mess with when fooling around in time.
For example, by entering the Sector 14 anomoly, someone can stumble into the past, visit Sierra, cause the original CEO presidential candidate to miss his interview, and force them to hire some goofball who cancels thoe whole simulation project.
The fans in the future find themselves without a sim, and only the memories of what was supposed to be...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
Oh god, not an anti-time anamoly!
------------------
"God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
[SPOILER]
[SPOILER]
[SPOILER]
[SPOILER]
[SPOILER]
[SPOILER]
Although I've tried to avoid discussing the events described in the latest Journal entry, the rest of this post, by its very nature begs the question about how it ends up. Those who haven't yet read it should take the time now, or suffer the consequences.
[url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url]
If you haven't read all of it from the start [30 December 2263], you must read the archives: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/archive.stm."]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/archive.stm.[/url] As Biggles says: It's Required.
Time travel always opens a huge can of Pandora's. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img] I declare now that I'm strongly on the side of 'you went back in time because you [b]always[/b] went back in time' as per most of B5 cannon. I realise this might not be possible in a truly dynamic game. However, I'd suggest as part of the QA team (my day job [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]) that certain things should be designed as pretty close to immutable. For example, the player has to perform actions violently inconsistent with his character to prevent the Battle of the Line.
I'm also of the opinion that events, as well as people can be Nexuses. In chronological order (SPOILER ALERT), my candidates would be: The death of Dukhat, the Battle of the Line, Bablyon 5's construction, Draal running the Great Machine, Santiago's death, The Fall of Narn, Valen's return to B4, Sheridan's death at Z'ha'dum, The Battle at Coriana 6, Earth's Civil War, Londo's Imperium, The Fall of Centauri Prime, Minbar's Civil War, The Telepath War, The Drakh Plague, G'Kar & Londo's deaths, Vir's Imperium, Sheridan's Apotheosis, Babylon 5's fiery end, Humanity's eventual rise to 'First-One-hood' (mostly deaths and battles, depressingly). If the game could intelligently force history back through these Nexuses, changes could occur, without destroying reality. Maybe Draal makes you go back again if your actions divert history around a Nexus?
Btw, there's a strong argument (IMHO) that Sinclair was Valen only because he was picked up at the Battle of the Line. The Minbari only ceased when they discovered the pilot they took onboard shared Valen's soul. If it hadn't been Valen, the Human Race would have been exterminated. Only because he was Valen, Sinclair was appointed B5's Commander and then Ranger One. He only took B4 back in time because of a letter from himself. Therefore, whoever was taken aboard the Grey Council ship was destined to be Valen. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/vsml.gif[/img]
I think the problem with a smaller Dilgar War preventing the Earth-Minbari War is that too much 'Fate' needs to be invoked after each Sector 14 Mission to get any of the Universe's original state back to anything like its true position, B5's situation, Earth's situation, the Interstellar alliance formation, let alone having Max's squadron on patrol. I don't want to miss out on the re-gathering darkness that's holding the attention of the Whitestars just because the Shadows didn't leave yet.
I agree it would be cool if the player could set themself up to lead the Army of Light and smack down the First Ones instead of Sheridan, but I'd prefer to leave that until after I'd played the game the whole way through first, properly. Perhaps there could have been a 'Strong Fate' v 'Weak Fate' setting designed into the game, so that history wouldn't change, no matter what the player does. Perhaps in 'Strong Fate' Draal could act as 'Second Foundation' repairing history to the correct path.
Finally, I wonder if Max would perform his actions over again had he the chance (as he does in a replayable ITF environment)? His good intentions may have led to severe damage to everything he holds dear. If you had the chance to go back in time and shoot Hitler dead, before he came to power, would you do it? My view is no; without downplaying the horror of one of Humanity's Darkest hours, we can never know whether the alternatives are worse. There are countless stories & movies on the theme 'What if the Nazis won?', mainly because they came so close. We know what the world is like now. The infinite alternatives must contain many far more imperfect.
Anyway, to finish up this run-away post, Max might not have an option. If he did the opposite in his last mission (attack the Narn), of even if he simply turned around and went back home, the Non-aligned Worlds might have banded together against Earth in retaliation, leading to the destruction of Earth before they came into contact with the Minbari! Limited foreknowledge is worse than none at all.
I guess we have to be glad that while we're (hopefully) doing 'whatever seems right at each moment', we don't KNOW the outcomes of our choices. Maybe we'd all go mad. More mad, anyway.
"If what we do doesn't matter; then all that matters is what we do."
Thanks again to JMS and the Journal's Author.
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[i]"I have looked into the darkness, Na'Toth. You cannot do that and ever be quite the same again."
All around us, it was as if the Universe were holding its breath... waiting. All of life can be broken down into moments of transition or moments...of revelation. This had the feeling of both."
"G'Quan wrote: 'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against Chaos and Despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"[/i]
I can't speak for the author, but regarding our design for ITF, a couple of hints.
The anomaly has become active again for a reason.
The player can decide [i]not[/i] to enter the anomaly after the first time.
There are consequences either way.
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras