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G'Kar, Londo & the Narn-Centauri War
Claudia Trent
Trainee
in Babylon 5
I've noticed that in post-Season 2, G'Kar never failed to take the opportunity to remind Londo of the latter's participation in the start of the Narn-Centauri War.
Yet, he and the other residents of the stations (especially Ivanova and Garibaldi) failed to remember how G'Kar's actions against the Centauri pushed Londo into making that deal with Morden and the Shadows.
I'm not trying to excuse Londo. He had a lot to answer for. But I think G'Kar need to take some of the blame. Instead of putting the earlier Centauri occupation behind him, G'Kar indulged in getting revenge. He acted just as Sinclair had described him and the Narns - an abused child who becomes an abuser. In the end, G'Kar's thirst for revenge backfired on him.
Perhaps in the end, this desire for revenge against past wrongs, is why the Centauri and the Narns failed to become First Ones.
Yet, he and the other residents of the stations (especially Ivanova and Garibaldi) failed to remember how G'Kar's actions against the Centauri pushed Londo into making that deal with Morden and the Shadows.
I'm not trying to excuse Londo. He had a lot to answer for. But I think G'Kar need to take some of the blame. Instead of putting the earlier Centauri occupation behind him, G'Kar indulged in getting revenge. He acted just as Sinclair had described him and the Narns - an abused child who becomes an abuser. In the end, G'Kar's thirst for revenge backfired on him.
Perhaps in the end, this desire for revenge against past wrongs, is why the Centauri and the Narns failed to become First Ones.
Comments
The First Ones pertain to the races that first achieved sentience, namely the Walkers of Sigma 957, Vorlons, etc.
Yeah, it is kind of funny how no one takes into account that G'Kar pushed Londo into the alliance with Morden. Poor Londo, such a tragic character. I'm glad they kill Shiv'kala.
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"Ambassador we all know that the first casulty of war is the truth."
-John Sheridan
"To alcohol the solution to and cause of all of life's problems."
-Homer Jay Simpson
What i was refering to was a comment JMS made on a message board about the ultimate fate of the b5 races.
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"Ambassador we all know that the first casulty of war is the truth."
-John Sheridan
"To alcohol the solution to and cause of all of life's problems."
-Homer Jay Simpson
And why is it that newbies these days don't just announce themselves, they have to actually make a meaningfull topic? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b]Perhaps in the end, this desire for revenge against past wrongs, is why the Centauri and the Narns failed to become First Ones.[/b][/quote]
Hi Claudia,
Kosh: 'They are a dying people. Leave them alone.'
Sheridan(?): 'Who? The Narn or the Centauri?'
Kosh: 'Yes.'
(I don't remember the exact words)
While that may have to do with them being under Shadows influence, it might as well mean that they will not be able to reach a certain level of evolution. Who knows?
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We are one. No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one.
No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.
- Alliance Preamble to the Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals
Webmaster [url="http://www.Sprungtor.de"]www.Sprungtor.de[/url]
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
So the question that begs to be asked is why were the humans allowed to become a keeper of the galaxy if we almost destryed ourselves?
Jake
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[i]This is crazy. I hope I haven't brain my damaged.[/i]
I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b]But remember the humans on earth were also blasted back to the stone age (or at least the bronze age) several hundred years after Sleeping in Light, during The Great Burn. At that time even gasoline is considered advanced technology.
[/b][/quote]
I don't think it was that bad, maybe back to a strange mix of industrial revolution and medevil tech.
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"Ambassador we all know that the first casulty of war is the truth."
-John Sheridan
"To alcohol the solution to and cause of all of life's problems."
-Homer Jay Simpson
And why didn't G'Kar ever admit to his own complicity in the start of the Narn-Centauri War, considering that Sinclair had warned him to make peace with the Centauri.
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[b][i][url="http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/"]http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/[/url]
Vir - Are you saying you don't trust me anymore? I made your favourite, Spoo.
Londo - I'll order in.
How can we possibly use sex to get what we want? Sex [/i]IS[i] what we want! - Frasier Crane[/i][/b]
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'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
Also, the conflict wasn't much wider than Earth. It was an internal human thing between two factions with differing views.
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Thanks for that Biggles. Didn't realise it was an internal conflict.
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'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
That scientist mentioned how the fleet would be leaving in a few hours to attack the colonies and their population centers as well as enemy countries.
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Chase
Web Hosting Provider for FirstOnes.com
http://www.radiusco.com/
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
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[b][i][url="http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/"]http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/[/url]
Vir - Are you saying you don't trust me anymore? I made your favourite, Spoo.
Londo - I'll order in.
How can we possibly use sex to get what we want? Sex [/i]IS[i] what we want! - Frasier Crane[/i][/b]
Isn't it just like life to be ironic enough to have Earth's Children (The Colonies) eat their parents (Earth).
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
The things we pass on to our children and their children...
:/
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
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We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
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'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
"We have had, continue to have, and will always have wars, and grief, and struggle...we will climb up and fall down...but each time we climb a little higher, and in the end, we *do* build the world that our ancestors would have wanted for us...we *do* leave the cradle at last, and we take our place among the stars teaching those who follow us." -jms
There will always be short-term setbacks, but as long as we climb back a few inches higher than we were before we fell down, we keep moving toward the goal of becoming a better people, and getting off the planet. Taking our place among the stars. While it's vaguely possible that I may *see* a Mars colony sometime within my lifetime, I know that I will never live there...but that ain't the point, it isn't a victory if *I* do it, and a failure if *I* don't, it's if *we* do it or not. Maybe we'll do it today, maybe we'll do it tomorrow, the point is to decide to DO it, and then by god DO IT. -jms
[i]What about the other races?[/i]
"The Minbari eventually make it; the Narn and Centauri do not. They don't die out, they just don't hit a state of First One-ishness, which is darn close to immortality (barring violence)." -jms
"I will confess that I look forward to the day when we have cleansed the Universe of the Centauri and carved their bones into little flutes for Narn children. It is a dream I have."
"They are alone. They are a dying people. We should let them pass."
"Who? The Narn or the Centauri?"
"Yes."
"...for G'Kar and his people; they will do all that they can to destroy us, until the Universe itself decays and collapses. If the Narns all stood together in one place and hated, all at the same time, that hatred could fly across dozens of light-years and reduce Centauri Prime to a ball of ash. That's how much they hate us."
"You don't have to respond in kind."
"Of course we do. There's a natural law. Physics tells us that for every action there must be an equal and opposite reaction. They hate us, we hate them, they hate us back. And so, here we are: victims of mathematics."
"In order to be free you had to learn to fight. No one questions that. But you've overcompensated. You are like abused children who have grown big enough to do the same thing to someone else as if it would somehow balance the scales. It won't. If you let the anger cloud your judgement, it will destroy you."
"We are a dying people, G'Kar. So are the Centauri. Obsessed with each other's death until death is all we can see, and death is all we deserve."
"What is there left for Narn if all of creation falls around us? There's [i]nothing[/i]. No hope, no dream, no future, no life. Unless we turn from the cycle of death toward something greater. If we [i]are[/i] a dying people, then let us die with honor, by helping the others as no one else can."
"I don't understand."
"Because you have let them distract you. Blind you with hate. You cannot see the battle for what it is. We are fighting to save one another, we must realize we are not alone. We rise and fall together. And some of us must be sacrificed if all are to be saved. Because, if we fail in this, then none of us will be saved. And the Narn will be only a memory."
"Not propaganda; goodfacts, as opposed to realfacts. Facts the government has endorsed."
"Earth needs room to expand. The Rangers and the Alliance prove a hindrance to our plans to expand."
It was mainly Earth that bore the burden of the great Burn, and yes, that was the one Garibaldi got into.... -jms
[i]Wouldn't the colonies offer Earth some help?[/i]
Some probably would offer to help...but if technology is now suspect, some might not want that help...other colonies might be of the "screw 'em, they got what they deserved" perspective...often politics gets in the way of charity. -jms
[This message has been edited by Waylander (edited 11-22-2001).]
And yet, one wonders. The Narn and Centauri did not die out. They simply did not achieve a state of firstoneishness. Hmmm, is that from a human point of view? Where does JMS's storyline stop? When the Humans and Minbari travel beyond the rim? Are the Narn and Centauri still there at that point?
What about their technology at that point? Do they still use the same old technology as in Babylon5s age?
Agh, so many questions, and noone to answer them...
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[b][i][url="http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/"]http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~gu00mama/[/url]
Vir - Are you saying you don't trust me anymore? I made your favourite, Spoo.
Londo - I'll order in.
How can we possibly use sex to get what we want? Sex [/i]IS[i] what we want! - Frasier Crane[/i][/b]
b5 tell us as zatras said "one big story"...remember his words when he went to b4 and went to the past with sinclair to became aided (ayudante) of valen himself.
and well g´kar reaches the status but one guy is not one race, remember g´quan reached that 1000 years ago b5 and no narn realize that.
remember the narns after the dead of cartagia ""revenge revenge!!!"".
a people who didnt learn from the past is condemned to repeat it.
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the great flood is present in most of the cultures of earth not only in jew-cristian culture.