[QUOTE=Stingray;170077]If there is something to learn from that, is that you don't vote for someone just because he or she is charismatic.[/QUOTE]
I heard an interesting commentary earlier today on NPR on the experience Vs charisma issues. The commentator (came in too late to catch the name) was saying, from a historical point of view the presidents who are now considered to have been the most successful are were those with the greatest oratory skills, not those with the greatest levels of experience. Of course Lincoln is the epitome of this and carries a number of parallels to Obama.
In my mind, the most important trait our next president will need is to be able to set a better tone for this country. The way I see it the decisiveness and fractionating between the parties has begun to trickle down into the society at large (and vice versa). I see a general malaise that has crept into the US psyche, about how the country is going to hell and how bad things have gotten. Whether the country is really headed for ruin or not, one of the most important tasks the next president will have is drawing this country out of its collective funk, a task in which experience will provide very little council.
[QUOTE=Stingray;170077]If there is something to learn from that, is that you don't vote for someone just because he or she is charismatic. As Bill Maher said, you don't have to "f*ck'em", just vote for them. Who cares if he or she is likable? Intuition isn't going to be of much help here.[/QUOTE]
Well, I wouldn't vote for someone [B][I]just[/I][/B] because he or she is charismatic. But I'm inclined to agree with Freejack (and the person he is quoting). A little charisma can go a long way and I feel it's an important attribute.
Maybe it's naive to think so, but I feel that the presidency is more than just a job or even a political office. To me, the best presidents see their administration as a public service, an honored position in which they can do what they think is truly right. Lincoln is a good example, as are both Roosevelt's, Kennedy, and even Reagan. All were considered to be dynamic, charismatic people who brought change when the country needed it. They energized people and gave them hope, even in some of America's darkest hours (Civil War, Depression, Cold War, Hostage Crisis, etc.). I don't think any of them were just in it for power's sake. The presidents who were just "doing a job" on the other hand and completely lack vigor end up being the worst (Nixon, Harding, Hoover).
I looked but I can't find any thing bias free on third trimester abortions.
There illegal unless the woman's health or life is in threatened.
I think charisma is important in a president.
Being able to know the limits of the office. Work well with others.
Keep the personal religion to him/her self.
Not being evil.
The point I was trying to make was that the current president was more charismatic than Al Gore and John Kerry.
Which means, voters will tend towards the most charismatic leader even if this shouldn't be the only factor to be considered, but most people don't seem to look any deeper at a candidate before they head inside the voting booth.
It sure looks like Obama is going to make it in the primaries, but let's not jump the shark. :D
Point taken. However, it wasn't very hard for Bush to be charismatic considering, as you pointed out, his opponents were John Kerry or Al Gore. Frankly I never thought Bush had very much charisma either. Hell, it's hard to be when you're tripping over your words all of the time.
Some group did a blind analysis of various presidential writings and speeches and determined their IQ from them. If their evaluation is correct, technically he is.
On the other hand, Nixon is the only president who has been a genius. Of course, the IQ test hasn't been around forever so I don't know when they started measuring it. The point is, the alternative isn't much better.
[QUOTE=croxis;170152]Some group did a blind analysis of various presidential writings and speeches and determined their IQ from them. If their evaluation is correct, technically he is.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp"]Hoax.[/URL] Sorry for ruining the illusion. [SIZE="1"](though I do think he's a bit of an idiot :p)[/SIZE]
The first IQ tests were partly developed by Pietge (sp) in France for identifying poor performing students so they could get additional help. This was actually a very effective program.
Hillary is turning out to be a big ol shit disturber...
- She pulled up some photo of Obama wearing African Robes in Kenya and accused him of not being in touch with the American people enough to be president
- She accused him of plagiarizing speeches when the author of those speeches is on his staff (and the so called 'plagiarized' words are common cliches like "We the people" and "I have a dream")
- She accused him of putting forth a pamphlet putting down her health care plan.. well.. he's your opponent so- duh?
It would be awesome if she could put as much effort into pumping up her own campaign as she's put into trashing his...
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
That's OK. She Spoiler: doesn't win, [url=http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks]as you can see here[/url] (spoilers inside!).
[QUOTE=Dax;170311]Hillary is turning out to be a big ol shit disturber...
[/QUOTE]
Senator Clinton's campaign literally said they were trying anything and everything to slow down Senator Obama. I believe the precise phrase was "even the kitchen sink."
[QUOTE=Chaosed;170322]
Florida removing 5,000 people from the voting roles mad Bush the Bloody president.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget all the elderly jewish people in Palm Beach who inexplicably voted for Pat "Adolf Hitler is my personal Jesus" Buchanan.
[QUOTE=RedAssAg05;169861]...but how much of the KKK is voting Democrat, anyway? That seems odd.[/QUOTE]
Not considering the KKK used to have allot of cross over with the union vote in certain areas of the south, it wasn't until what 1970 that the stigma of of the Republican party being the party of the "Yankees" finally eroded and the shift began of those states from being solidly blue to a mixture of blue and red happened.
[QUOTE=Chaosed;170322]Obama's picture news as processed through the BBC.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7263783.stm[/url]
Not a big deal to me, or ant deal at all.
Florida removing 5,000 people from the voting roles mad Bush the Bloody president.[/QUOTE]
Considering most of that happened at the level of county, especially Miami Dade, which is a democratically controlled stronghold kinda does in the damned "zmg right wing conspiracy" what pisses me off is how many people don't have a clue how our government works or how our elections really are conducted pisses me off, and these people are supposed to be voting?
Here is a hint, the final determination of a resident of a given counties voting status lies with THE COUNTY ELECTIONS OFFICE using GUIDELINES set by the state. This part of the reason why in Washington a senatorial election was shifted by 500 "homeless" people" who nobody can figure out who they are or if they really exist, because the county elections officials in Olympia county claim they do.
Same thing with the Palm beach thing, I know what conventional leftist wisdom says, but its also full of shit, is Palm Beach county run by republicans? is it some sort of crazy stronghold of the vast right wing conspiracy? Problem is there 1. are alot of retired crazy conservatives living in Palm Beach, including Rush Limbaugh. The percentage of "elderly jewish people" is damn low. and secondly if things are messed up that badly there, it shows that either the people voting or the people who run the Palm Beach county elections office, need to be declared incompetent. Problem, elections officers are themselves elected although supposedly the position is "non partisan" ie no party affiliation is claimed by the candidate.
And don't get me started on socialized medicine. Frankly nobody except maybe very small countries like New Zealand can afford it (and Im still on the fence on that one) If you look at Europe economicly many of the EU countries are on a worse footing then we are, and have even higher public debt loadings per capita.. eventually those things will come home to roost. And Id argue we have fewer Americans dying due to lack of medical care then many European nations, especially considering the survival rate in the US for Colon cancer is 82% versus 40% some odd percent for the "wonderful" socialized medical care provided in England.
[QUOTE=David of Mac;170333]Senator Clinton's campaign literally said they were trying anything and everything to slow down Senator Obama. I believe the precise phrase was "even the kitchen sink."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dax;170311]Hillary is turning out to be a big ol shit disturber...
- She pulled up some photo of Obama wearing African Robes in Kenya and accused him of not being in touch with the American people enough to be president
- She accused him of plagiarizing speeches when the author of those speeches is on his staff (and the so called 'plagiarized' words are common cliches like "We the people" and "I have a dream")
- She accused him of putting forth a pamphlet putting down her health care plan.. well.. he's your opponent so- duh?
It would be awesome if she could put as much effort into pumping up her own campaign as she's put into trashing his...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=David of Mac;170333]Senator Clinton's campaign literally said they were trying anything and everything to slow down Senator Obama. I believe the precise phrase was "even the kitchen sink."[/QUOTE]
Welcome to the Hillary Campaign. It was no different when she was running for senate. Why should it change now?
Comments
:s
I heard an interesting commentary earlier today on NPR on the experience Vs charisma issues. The commentator (came in too late to catch the name) was saying, from a historical point of view the presidents who are now considered to have been the most successful are were those with the greatest oratory skills, not those with the greatest levels of experience. Of course Lincoln is the epitome of this and carries a number of parallels to Obama.
In my mind, the most important trait our next president will need is to be able to set a better tone for this country. The way I see it the decisiveness and fractionating between the parties has begun to trickle down into the society at large (and vice versa). I see a general malaise that has crept into the US psyche, about how the country is going to hell and how bad things have gotten. Whether the country is really headed for ruin or not, one of the most important tasks the next president will have is drawing this country out of its collective funk, a task in which experience will provide very little council.
Jake
Well, I wouldn't vote for someone [B][I]just[/I][/B] because he or she is charismatic. But I'm inclined to agree with Freejack (and the person he is quoting). A little charisma can go a long way and I feel it's an important attribute.
Maybe it's naive to think so, but I feel that the presidency is more than just a job or even a political office. To me, the best presidents see their administration as a public service, an honored position in which they can do what they think is truly right. Lincoln is a good example, as are both Roosevelt's, Kennedy, and even Reagan. All were considered to be dynamic, charismatic people who brought change when the country needed it. They energized people and gave them hope, even in some of America's darkest hours (Civil War, Depression, Cold War, Hostage Crisis, etc.). I don't think any of them were just in it for power's sake. The presidents who were just "doing a job" on the other hand and completely lack vigor end up being the worst (Nixon, Harding, Hoover).
There illegal unless the woman's health or life is in threatened.
I think charisma is important in a president.
Being able to know the limits of the office. Work well with others.
Keep the personal religion to him/her self.
Not being evil.
Which means, voters will tend towards the most charismatic leader even if this shouldn't be the only factor to be considered, but most people don't seem to look any deeper at a candidate before they head inside the voting booth.
It sure looks like Obama is going to make it in the primaries, but let's not jump the shark. :D
His charisma score in my book is deep into negative numbers. I would not want to have a beer with him at all. That stupid smirk infuriates me.
Obama takes 2 more states last night and allegations of an inappropriate relationship with a lobbyist are haunting McCain.
Didn't you know that is part of his charm?
Jake
[URL="http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.asp"]Hoax.[/URL] Sorry for ruining the illusion. [SIZE="1"](though I do think he's a bit of an idiot :p)[/SIZE]
The first IQ tests were partly developed by Pietge (sp) in France for identifying poor performing students so they could get additional help. This was actually a very effective program.
- She pulled up some photo of Obama wearing African Robes in Kenya and accused him of not being in touch with the American people enough to be president
- She accused him of plagiarizing speeches when the author of those speeches is on his staff (and the so called 'plagiarized' words are common cliches like "We the people" and "I have a dream")
- She accused him of putting forth a pamphlet putting down her health care plan.. well.. he's your opponent so- duh?
It would be awesome if she could put as much effort into pumping up her own campaign as she's put into trashing his...
Right Biggles?
Jake
Freejack: Thats steampowered robot overlords..
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7263783.stm[/url]
Not a big deal to me, or ant deal at all.
Florida removing 5,000 people from the voting roles mad Bush the Bloody president.
[/QUOTE]
Senator Clinton's campaign literally said they were trying anything and everything to slow down Senator Obama. I believe the precise phrase was "even the kitchen sink."
[QUOTE=Chaosed;170322]
Florida removing 5,000 people from the voting roles mad Bush the Bloody president.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget all the elderly jewish people in Palm Beach who inexplicably voted for Pat "Adolf Hitler is my personal Jesus" Buchanan.
Not considering the KKK used to have allot of cross over with the union vote in certain areas of the south, it wasn't until what 1970 that the stigma of of the Republican party being the party of the "Yankees" finally eroded and the shift began of those states from being solidly blue to a mixture of blue and red happened.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7263783.stm[/url]
Not a big deal to me, or ant deal at all.
Florida removing 5,000 people from the voting roles mad Bush the Bloody president.[/QUOTE]
Considering most of that happened at the level of county, especially Miami Dade, which is a democratically controlled stronghold kinda does in the damned "zmg right wing conspiracy" what pisses me off is how many people don't have a clue how our government works or how our elections really are conducted pisses me off, and these people are supposed to be voting?
Here is a hint, the final determination of a resident of a given counties voting status lies with THE COUNTY ELECTIONS OFFICE using GUIDELINES set by the state. This part of the reason why in Washington a senatorial election was shifted by 500 "homeless" people" who nobody can figure out who they are or if they really exist, because the county elections officials in Olympia county claim they do.
Same thing with the Palm beach thing, I know what conventional leftist wisdom says, but its also full of shit, is Palm Beach county run by republicans? is it some sort of crazy stronghold of the vast right wing conspiracy? Problem is there 1. are alot of retired crazy conservatives living in Palm Beach, including Rush Limbaugh. The percentage of "elderly jewish people" is damn low. and secondly if things are messed up that badly there, it shows that either the people voting or the people who run the Palm Beach county elections office, need to be declared incompetent. Problem, elections officers are themselves elected although supposedly the position is "non partisan" ie no party affiliation is claimed by the candidate.
And don't get me started on socialized medicine. Frankly nobody except maybe very small countries like New Zealand can afford it (and Im still on the fence on that one) If you look at Europe economicly many of the EU countries are on a worse footing then we are, and have even higher public debt loadings per capita.. eventually those things will come home to roost. And Id argue we have fewer Americans dying due to lack of medical care then many European nations, especially considering the survival rate in the US for Colon cancer is 82% versus 40% some odd percent for the "wonderful" socialized medical care provided in England.
I thought it was Obama who stated that?
- She pulled up some photo of Obama wearing African Robes in Kenya and accused him of not being in touch with the American people enough to be president
- She accused him of plagiarizing speeches when the author of those speeches is on his staff (and the so called 'plagiarized' words are common cliches like "We the people" and "I have a dream")
- She accused him of putting forth a pamphlet putting down her health care plan.. well.. he's your opponent so- duh?
It would be awesome if she could put as much effort into pumping up her own campaign as she's put into trashing his...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=David of Mac;170333]Senator Clinton's campaign literally said they were trying anything and everything to slow down Senator Obama. I believe the precise phrase was "even the kitchen sink."[/QUOTE]
Welcome to the Hillary Campaign. It was no different when she was running for senate. Why should it change now?