Issues with your account? Bug us in the Discord!

A day of mourning

FreezeFreeze Disguised as a Trainee
... for us here in Finland. Everyone has always claimed this to one of the safest places to live in on the world. Not anymore.

CNN: [url=http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/07/school.shooting/index.html]Eight dead in school shooting[/url]

[quote]
HELSINKI, Finland (CNN) -- At least eight people were killed when an 18-year-old gunman opened fire at a school in Finland Wednesday, according to Finnish police. The shooting appeared to have been planned out in graphic videos posted on Internet file-sharing site YouTube.

At a press conference this afternoon, police confirmed the dead numbered two girls, five boys and the school's headmistress at Jokela High in Tuusula, a quiet town around 50 kilometers (30 miles) north of Helsinki.[/quote]

When stuff like this happened in the US, didn't feel sad. This is a different day. Now I deeply symphatize you there across the sea and understand. :(

Comments

  • ShadowDancerShadowDancer When I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie." London, UK
    Yeah I just saw that on the news :( Not something I'd have ever expected to hear about happening in Finland, tho I suppose rationally America doesnt have a monopoly on unbalanced people.

    Very sad
  • C_MonC_Mon A Genuine Sucker
    Sad day indeed.
  • Sad to hear.

    Why must some people go insane... why do some lose any understanding of ethics... and why did yet another manage to waste so many lives?

    I wish it weren't possible, that everyone could anticipate every attack, and be invulnerable to every threat. Unfortunately not on this planet...

    ...and while adults can at least improvise some defense, young people are quite vulnerable. Can't give up schools because someone might be insane, can't have everyone wearing armor, can't have everyone armed, even with non-lethal weapons and least of all kids, and can't make weapons totally unavailable either, since they are easy enough to make. Instant escape from anywhere upon hazard ain't possible either.

    Perhaps there's only some way of reducing the probability of such deeds, and limiting their outcomes. And far be it from me to claim how exactly.
  • At eighteen people aren't old enough to know if life could be worth it or not. Remember, the first person to shoot is your self.

    I read an article yesterday about a man who castrated him self because he had a strong urge to get a little boy. This man stopped a child attack. The school kid is just a waste of public funds.
  • Entil'ZhaEntil'Zha I see famous people
    Yanno, when i was in school, if we as students had a big enough problem with another student, we'd go, and kick the shit out of eachother in private, no guns needed, WTF is wrong with people today?
  • PJHPJH The Lovely Thing
    :(

    Frankly speaking it was expected to happen in here as well sooner or later knowing how mentally disturbed and pressured many youths are these days and now it did happen. And I wonder.... where next?

    A very sad day indeed.

    - PJH
  • PJHPJH The Lovely Thing
    :(

    Frankly speaking it was expected to happen in here as well sooner or later knowing how mentally disturbed and pressured many youths are these days and now it did happen. And I wonder.... where next?

    A very sad day indeed.

    - PJH
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    The trick, and not an easy trick, is to not treat the symptoms but the sources of the problem, for the reasons nappy shadow mentioned
  • JohnnyOnTheSpotJohnnyOnTheSpot Banned by request
    I like Entil Zha's solution. Its totally tragic, mental health is not something most people consider often when they look at a student. Its always been considered something of a taboo to me so who knows. How do you judge when somebody is stable and not?
  • FreejackFreejack Jake the Not-so-Wise
    Don't forget the parents roll in such situations. There must be an enabling factor on their part for something like this to happening.

    Jake
  • Falcon1Falcon1 Elite Ranger
    Very very sad.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    If everyone had a hug the world would be a better place.
  • And fatal diseases would spread a lot quicker, as the shooter had wished in his manifesto.

    The media is eagerly trying to transform this tragic loss of life to a farce by interviewing various psychoanalysts and moralists (vernacularly known as "kukkahattutäti" - a flower-hatted auntie) blaming everything (from the internet through video games to metal music) but the shooter himself, who in his manifesto clearly wrote that no one but himself should be blamed for what was going to happen - he was simply confused and pissed off because the modern society is unjustly turning people into mindless robot slaves serving money (and/or other restrictive religious belief systems) and he didn't want to commit to that cause for the rest of his life.

    It also seems that the media isn't the only one being self-righteous, manipulative and greedy when the two-faced vultures of religious origin are unscrupulously using this "ungodly act" in their own advantage by trying to gain moral highground over the customs and habits of the free-thinking secular society. :(

    Edit: my condolences to the victims' families, too.
  • FreejackFreejack Jake the Not-so-Wise
    But confusion over ones roll in society in no justifies that type of killing, especially if innocents.

    Again, I have to ask, what was the parents roll in this? How did they raise this child, what did they teach him?

    Jake
  • He could have gone to Alaska and lived off the land, away from everyone else. Cuba might have taken him. Theres always communes.

    He was dumb, lazy, lying or just wanted to kill people.
  • JohnnyOnTheSpotJohnnyOnTheSpot Banned by request
    killing is the cowards way, talking, debating, arguing is always the hard route. Its so hard to convince somebody your right when everyone else says your wrong. I had a hard time dealing with that in High School especially peer pressure.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    It is very easy, and very foolish, for us as a society and as individuals to demonize him -- to apply a string of negative labels (dumb, lazy, coward are just some examples I seen in this thread). It accomplishes nothing. Doing this is in the same class as calling someone who is unpatriotic Un and supporter of terrorism. It is the same class as a religious person calling everyone not of their faith heretics, evil, witches and should be burned at the stake.

    By doing these things we are killing the conversation and debate -- the very thing Johnny called cowardly. It does nothing to find out what happened and what went wrong and what can be done to fix the situation.

    Every one of us here are sitting in our comfortable computer chairs claiming to be self proclaimed experts on this. None of us actually are. The psychologists who have spent years of training in their field and on this topic and arnt trying to push an agenda (like the ones Eclecticonaut mentioned) have concluded a terrible revelation; there is no baseline. Every single case is individual an unique. These are good scientists, they are trying to create a model to explain and predict this behavior. They can't. The data is just static.

    Eclecticonaut is right. Ultimately it is the shooter's responsibility for their actions. But something(s) brought them to this point to make that choice and in this case it is also the fault of family, teachers, and friends who did not act when they saw this person change.
  • shadow boxershadow boxer The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
    intervention is the key here

    isolation is the problem

    the 'net is no substitute for good human contact

    going mad is not that uncommon... going mad with support is getting increasingly common. you need your fellows for grounding and now that so few of us need to to socialise to function fairly well, we can disappear into our own little screwed up distorted worlds where shooting fellow students is acceptable...
  • I can forgive crazy people and kids for bad things. 18 is not a kid. If his brain was broken I don't know.

    The debate is could something have been done? How much money is it worth to spend? How many resources? Should rights be taken away?

    Weather it is right or wrong to kill people because they realy piss others off I can't believe is in doubt.

    He should have stopped blaming others for his problems, instead tried to solve them.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    I said none of those thing.
  • 1st part about demoniseing him.

    2ed part is about keeping the conversation going.

    3ed part is to be clear people that do that must be taken out of society.

    Have you(s) herd he had been on-line talking Columbine killing with a boy in America that has been arrested? If I recall right he has shot up his school but didn't kill himself.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    Nope, you missed the point
  • E.TE.T Quote-o-matic
    Looks like politicians are (yet once) again doing their best to just mess things further. :(
    Prime minister wants to force sport shooters to store their weapons in shooting ranges.
    Most of those just happen to be in secluded places so it would be like ad for criminals/anyone wanting weapons to start shooting around: Lot of weapons in here, come to get them!


    [QUOTE=Entil'Zha;166857]Yanno, when i was in school, if we as students had a big enough problem with another student, we'd go, and kick the shit out of eachother in private, no guns needed, WTF is wrong with people today?[/QUOTE]I guess it's one manifestation of world events/global trends.
    Doesn't require much viewing of news to see how major world leaders are all the time "rattling sabers", touting weapons as answer to problems, justifying violence with selfish reasons and just generally saying fuck the others.
    [QUOTE=ShadowDancer;166837]Yeah I just saw that on the news :( Not something I'd have ever expected to hear about happening in Finland...[/QUOTE]Yeah, traditional "problem solving" in here has been getting drunk and then maybe doing what Entil'Zha said.
    Guns have been used very rarely, if something "longer than arm" is used then it has been sharp-edged weapons and like that... and even then consequences of it have depended greatly on how drunk person was.
    Only area where guns have had bigger than marginal part are family homicides in which perpetrator has first killed his family and then himself... and I think in those cases it has been mostly done with (hunting) rifle or such.


    Then there's this situation always repeated after this kind events: people doing threats just for fun... Singaporean teaching of manners would be approriate punishment for them.

    And for those who cherish killing of innocents and idolize these murderers, I can't even think what should be done to them.
  • FreejackFreejack Jake the Not-so-Wise
    [QUOTE=E.T;167062]
    Then there's this situation always repeated after this kind events: people doing threats just for fun... Singaporean teaching of manners would be approriate punishment for them.[/QUOTE]

    Eh gad, that has been a real problem around the St. Louis area. Almost on a daily basis (and definitely at least once a week), someone has phoned/emailed/communicated a bomb threat into a high school, causing a classes to be delayed and/or canceled for the day. Of course, if I didn't want to go to school that day, its a great way to get out. Find a lone payphone somewhere and call it in, you know exactly what happens.

    Jake
  • Gun man had links to US suspect. I found this. Could have been what I was thinking of.

    [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7091539.stm[/url]
  • PJHPJH The Lovely Thing
    Btw, this killer was a son of a quite well known Finnish musician and guitarist "Big Papa" Auvinen who used to play with the late Finnish guitar legend Albert Järvinen back in the days. Makes it quite interesting that he was from a musical family.

    - PJH
  • Well, one could describe this Pekka-Eric's "grande finale" as his "composition of chaos".
Sign In or Register to comment.