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New computer time!
Biggles
<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
in Zocalo v2.0
It's been 4.5 years since I last bought a desktop (excluding a new video card 2 or 3 years ago). Now that the only obstacle to getting a new one is out of the way, it's time to figure out the parts I need. Alas, I have not got much free time to invest in the oodles of research necessary. So I'm going to put my minions (that's you lot) to work.
A few restrictions:
[list][*]The CPU must be quad core (this computer is essentially being built to play SupCom) 0 I'm currently settled on the Q6600.
[*]Fanless video cards are much preferred. I'm aware that there are ones available in the 8600GTS line, but not of any 8800* ones.
[*]A motherboard that can handle SLI in the future is possibly a good idea, but not a necessity.
[*]A good-quality, quiet case is necessary, but also no ugly cases. No water cooling.
[*]If you have them, provide links to reviews/comparisons at reliable sites to back up your recommendations.
[*]Nothing stupid. :) I'm not going to buy a Xeon, no am I likely to build a miniature jet turbine out of SLI'd 8800GTX's.[/list]
A few restrictions:
[list][*]The CPU must be quad core (this computer is essentially being built to play SupCom) 0 I'm currently settled on the Q6600.
[*]Fanless video cards are much preferred. I'm aware that there are ones available in the 8600GTS line, but not of any 8800* ones.
[*]A motherboard that can handle SLI in the future is possibly a good idea, but not a necessity.
[*]A good-quality, quiet case is necessary, but also no ugly cases. No water cooling.
[*]If you have them, provide links to reviews/comparisons at reliable sites to back up your recommendations.
[*]Nothing stupid. :) I'm not going to buy a Xeon, no am I likely to build a miniature jet turbine out of SLI'd 8800GTX's.[/list]
Comments
Toms Hardware had some reviews of it up, but i can't find them at the moment, and i'm too lazy to look.
The high end video cards got quite a high heat output nowdays so I havn't seen any special made heatsinks for them. I'd still say go with a geforce 8800gts 320mb version if it has to be nvidia card, otherwise the ati hd 2900 pro looks nice. And I did find a fanless heatsink for the ATI hd 2900pro and XT called Thermalright HR-03/R600.
Cases are just so many, I got some antec nine hundred wich is really quiet but, I will have a dust problem before I make some homemade dust filters.
[list][*]Video card will be nvidia. I like nView too much.
[*]I'm not going to overclock.
[*]It's good to know brands and models, not just chipsets. :p[/list]
While I could wait a few months for the Penryns, I need a new computer now. You can always get something better by just waiting a few months, anyway. ;)
[URL="http://www.antec.com/ec/productDetails.php?ProdID=09180"]Antec P180 for case[/URL]
The Q6600
[URL="http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=397&model=1439&modelmenu=1"]Asus Striker Extreme[/URL]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131074[/url]
CPU Type Quad-core / Core 2 Extreme / Core 2 Duo / Pentium
FSB 1333/1066/800MHz available when CPU's supporting 1333MHz FSB
North Bridge NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI
Number of Memory Slots 4×240pin
Memory Standard DDR2 800
Maximum Memory Supported 8GB
Dual Channel Supported Yes
PCI Express x16 2 x PCI Express x16 slot,support NVIDIA SLI technology,at full x16,x16 speed(blue)
1 x PCI Express x16, at x8 speed(middle)
PCI Express x1 1
PCI Slots 2
Other Slots SupremeFX Audio Card Slot
PATA 1 x ATA100 2 Dev. Max
SATA 3Gb/s 6
SATA RAID NV RAID 0/1/0+1/5 JBOD
Additional RAID Controller Sil 3132
Audio Chipset ADI AD1988B
Audio Channels 8 Channels
LAN Chipset NVIDIA nForce 680i SLI built-in dual Gigabit MAC with external Marvell PHY
Support NVIDIA DualNet Technology
Max LAN Speed Dual 10/100/1000Mbps
PS/2 2
USB 4 x USB 2.0
IEEE 1394 1 x IEEE 1394a
eSATA 3Gb/s 2
S/PDIF Out 1x Optical, 1x Coaxial
Audio Ports 6 Ports
Onboard USB 3 x USB 2.0 connectors support 6 ports
Onboard 1394 1 x 1394a connector supports 1 port
Yum, Yum Yum Yum Yum Yum
*runs for cover*
For mean desktop performance, I could suggest a Sempron 64 from 2005, indeed with a passively cooled graphics card, featuring big and slow CPU and case fans. Unfortunately, it is still too outdated for gaming, and was made by a local manufacturer totally unknown in the wider world. Out of date and out of production by now.
In short, this minion ain't a particularly gaming one.
The motherboard options seem fine. You're not on much of a tight budget and aren't limited to budget hardware.
Case-wise, good choices are the Antec P180 series or the Sonata III. Both are fantastic chassis to work from, but the P180 line is vastly superior if only slightly more expensive. On top of that, you can get sound dampening materials [URL="http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=p182.html?id=xbQeyZfL"]from here[/URL] to further isolate the system. They also offer the same products and services for the Sonata line.
For cooling hardware, look into the Noctua NF-S12 fans. The fans run practically silent, yet flow more than even the noisiest. Well worth their moderate expense. Consider pairing them with the above-mentioned Thermalright Ultra-120 for a fairly efficient configuration.
[URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125063"]Gigabyte[/URL] and [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121077"]Asus[/URL] both make a passively cooled Geforce 8600GTS right now that is superb. The Gigabyte model in particular has a more compact cooling option at the present that appears to function slightly better in low-flow environments, but the Asus could run cooler given more in-case flow. They are, for all intents and purposes, the same product. My roommate is running the Gigabyte variant with no complaints whatsoever. Battlefield 2 operates without a single hickup. Supreme commander is smooth, though not perfect. Two of these in SLI should solve the problem and neither cost nor sound as loud as a midgrade 8800.
Another option might be to consider getting an 8800GTS and stripping off the stock turbine. You can already find a number of quiet fan/passive heatsinks for these, such as the [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835109136"]Thermalright HR03 Plus[/URL]. This would give you more long term expansion potential without having to sacrifice noise, but the cost would be notably higher. ([URL="http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=37&threadid=2053521&enterthread=y"]Sorta-Review[/URL]) Note that this in no way impairs use of SLI functionality, making it perfect for a long term upgrade option.
For hard drives, there is simply option other than the Western Digital Raptor. This drive will make the single largest late-game performance boost in SupCom.
[I]Update: Supcom in Vista runs like crap versus XP. the overhead makes for a measurable decrease in playability, though how much of this is due to drivers and how much is due to the OS is difficult to say just now. Both are a tad too immature at the present time. This might have been fixed in the more recent SupCom patches, but I don't have enough information yet. I'll update this as I learn more.[/I]
Speaking of RAM, it seems 4gb (2x2gb) is sufficient. if you are running 32 bit windows, you can set the diagnostic bit in the boot menu to allow for 1gb of additional addressable space for a 3gb app/1gb kernel split of the 4gb, but you still encounter the 2gb cap for the process. 64bit windows would appear to be a better bet, but XP x64 driver support is poor to the point of sad and Vista performance is weak.
And with regard to sound, avoid the Audigy or stock X-Fi right now. Supcom still appears to have issues either. the Onboard provided with the Striker should be perfectly sufficient, though I have yet to actually use a system with one of the modern HD Audio onboard units and thus cannot say if it would be satisfactory for your FLAC-y listening habits. If you do want an external sound card, consider either an AuzenTech X-Fi prelude or a Creative X-Fi card running with the AuzenTech drivers. That will allow the game to operate without incident (but the Auzentech offers a better warranty and hardware improvements at minimal extra cost, so I'd say it is worth going for anyway).
For power supply, this [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010"]OCZ model[/URL] out there right now looks to be perfect. Quiet, stable, and affordable. Though I suspect it might not be the best option for the P180 cases due to a bottom-mounted fan. This might need more research.
And don't forget, Supcom may be out now, but Forged Alliance is only a month away!
I'm not a fan of SLI, there are still some issues with drivers what I've heared and in some games there's no boost in frame rate.
IMO, the stock cooler for the geforce 8800gts is quite quiet. As long as you have a well ventilated case it won't make really that much noise in idle, and when I play, well, then there's alot of sound effects and stuff so I won't hear my comp anyways.
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119104[/url]
Cooler Master Centurian won out. comes with two 120mm fans, supports a 3rd. 120mm fans = airflow, but QUIET. Lotsa expantion room, but still looks nice. :D
NF-S12 fans are good for case cooling, but are clearly weaker companions for heat sinks (than Scythe or Noiseblocker). NF-S12's noise character also tends to change more irritating after a few months usage.
[quote]Battlefield 2 operates without a single hickup. Supreme commander is smooth, though not perfect. Two of these in SLI should solve the problem and neither cost nor sound as loud as a midgrade 8800.[/quote]
At what resolution? If Biggles wants to buy for example a 30" LCD monitor with LG.Philips LM300WQ5 panel (5ms gtg response time, 178°/178° viewing angles, 2560x1600 resolution, 8bit colors, 3000:1 DCR Contrast, 102% NTSC Color Gamut), then two 8600GTS's are awfully inadequate. Hell, their awfully inadequate at 1920x1200.
[quote]For hard drives, there is simply option other than the Western Digital Raptor. This drive will make the single largest late-game performance boost in SupCom.[/quote]
Raptor makes a good OS partition, but is way too expensive for data storage. WD5000AAKS has the best speed/noise/price ratio at the moment.
[quote]If you do want an external sound card, consider either an AuzenTech X-Fi prelude or a Creative X-Fi card running with the AuzenTech drivers. That will allow the game to operate without incident (but the Auzentech offers a better warranty and hardware improvements at minimal extra cost, so I'd say it is worth going for anyway).[/quote]
AuzenTech X-Fi Prelude would be my choice as well. These cards have superb DACs and analog outputs considering the price level and the opamps (operational amplifiers) for L/R channel can be easily replaced (because of the DIP socket), if the original ones aren't satisfying enough. But what kind of audio monitors/loud speakers would Biggles want? Though a bit pricy, I'd recommend the [url=http://www.genelec.com/]Genelec[/url] 8020A/8030A/8040A/8130A/8240A monitors without any hesitation. They're simply best in their class, ask any audio professional.
I've heard that AuzenTech's drivers are not so good and don't support all the features found in the X-Fi chipset. There's also the issue of if the cards are even available here and the fact that they're sold out. Oh, and that "minimal extra cost" in audiophile terms means hundreds of dollars for no perceivable gain... :p
[QUOTE=Eclecticonaut;165795]At what resolution? If Biggles wants to buy for example a 30" LCD monitor with LG.Philips LM300WQ5 panel (5ms gtg response time, 178°/178° viewing angles, 2560x1600 resolution, 8bit colors, 3000:1 DCR Contrast, 102% NTSC Color Gamut), then two 8600GTS's are awfully inadequate. Hell, their awfully inadequate at 1920x1200.[/quote]
Wants to buy? I've already bought a 24" LCD (1920x1200). :) I'm not particularly concerned about being able to run it at native resolution in the latest games. It'd be nice, but I'm well aware that it's impractical.
Perhaps Sennheiser HD595 or Beyerdynamic DT-770/990 Pro?
[quote]Wants to buy? I've already bought a 24" LCD (1920x1200). :) I'm not particularly concerned about being able to run it at native resolution in the latest games. It'd be nice, but I'm well aware that it's impractical.[/QUOTE]
In that case you should buy one 8800GTS 640MB/GTX (bigger video memory helps when playing at high res), it wipes the floor with two 8600GTS cards any time.
[QUOTE=Eclecticonaut;165795]NF-S12 fans are good for case cooling, but are clearly weaker companions for heat sinks (than Scythe or Noiseblocker). NF-S12's noise character also tends to change more irritating after a few months usage.
[/quote]
In a push-pull situation, the NF-S12 come out perfectly fine and near dead silent. The wear may be an issue, as I do not have any long-term experience with the fans in question to call upon, but I'll check with some friends and see what they say about theirs. Though clarify as to the particular meaning of "irritating" if you could.
[Quote]
At what resolution? If Biggles wants to buy for example a 30" LCD monitor with LG.Philips LM300WQ5 panel (5ms gtg response time, 178°/178° viewing angles, 2560x1600 resolution, 8bit colors, 3000:1 DCR Contrast, 102% NTSC Color Gamut), then two 8600GTS's are awfully inadequate. Hell, their awfully inadequate at 1920x1200.
[/quote]
I should have been a bit more explicit being as we have discussed this a great deal on IRC, and very rarely here. :p 1280x1024 (which is the highest resolution my Roommate's LCD can operate at, and thus the peak of what we can test), med-high settings are what Supreme Commander is being played at in the tests I've been performing. As far as the panel goes, the better bet right now seems to be the Dell 2407WFP-HC as it offers the features he is interested in and a good quality panel without the input lag of the Samsung 24" displays available at the present time.
The biggest problem with the VGA requirements is his preference for quiet operation. As mentioned above, the best option for [B]silent[/B] use is the 8600GTS in SLI. However, as also mentioned, one can rig an 8800GTS/GTX for silent operation using aftermarket components. The biggest problem with SupCom is that right now, its biggest stumbling point is CPU rather than Video. SLI does offer a speed bump with the latest patches, but it isn't as significant as one would hope. However, running two 8600GTS cards in SLI does offer enough bang for the buck to make it a reasonable offer while still remaining silent. $170/per for the 8600GTS, running up to $340 for the pair while still remaining silent, or anywhere from $300 to $380 plus another $60 for the cooler, plus more for a slim quiet fan to keep it operating comfortably, quietly, and reliably. Of course, the benefits of the solo 8800GTS over the SLI 8600GTS set are clear, but is the excessive cost to achieve a similar level of silence worth it?
[quote]
Raptor makes a good OS partition, but is way too expensive for data storage. WD5000AAKS has the best speed/noise/price ratio at the moment.
[/quote]
The raptor was my suggestion given his interest in SupCom. The game eats RAM and loves to cache to the disk. The Raptor offers a tangible benefit while not costing all too much. A 500gb drive these days is dirt cheap and would be fine for storage, and a 74gb Raptor is just as affordable for the OS drive. the 150gb raptor is not unreasonably expensive, either, making it a worthwhile investment given the performance boost.
[quote]AuzenTech X-Fi Prelude would be my choice as well. These cards have superb DACs and analog outputs considering the price level and the opamps (operational amplifiers) for L/R channel can be easily replaced (because of the DIP socket), if the original ones aren't satisfying enough. But what kind of audio monitors/loud speakers would Biggles want? Though a bit pricy, I'd recommend the [url=http://www.genelec.com/]Genelec[/url] 8020A/8030A/8040A/8130A/8240A monitors without any hesitation. They're simply best in their class, ask any audio professional.[/QUOTE]
You've missed so many of our IRC-based discussions... ;) But the card is just superb...
[QUOTE=Biggles] I've heard that AuzenTech's drivers are not so good and don't support all the features found in the X-Fi chipset. There's also the issue of if the cards are even available here and the fact that they're sold out. Oh, and that "minimal extra cost" in audiophile terms means hundreds of dollars for no perceivable gain...[/quote]
"Minimal extra cost" in this case happens to be $15 over the equally featured X-Fi in this particular nation. For that cost, I'd say it is worth it. Anything more, ehh... And as far as I've been reading, the drivers appear to offer the same critical functionality, but I'm having trouble digging up extended features.
For headphones, I second the Sennheiser cans. I do love my Grado SR-225s (Especially with the HD414 pad mod ;)), they just aren't as flexible as the Sennheisers suggested above. Neither are bad, but each has a distinct sound that makes it worth attempting to try a pair before making the purchase. I also seem to remember some discussion of IEMs somewhere around here.
Probably because of the special "self-stabilising oil-pressure" bearings, the fan starts to emit a sort of low-level rubbing/grinding noise. Of course, this happens with cheaper fans all the time, but those other HQ fans seem to maintain the original level of silence longer.
G92 will be released in November 2007 timeframe in the form of "GeForce 9800" series.
"G92" GeForce 9800 GTX specs.
- 65nm process technology at TSMC.
- Over one billion transistors.
- Second Generation Unified Shader Architecture.
- Double precision support (FP64).
- GPGPU native.
- Over one TeraFLOPS of shader processing power.
- MADD+ADD configuration for the shader units (2+1 FLOPS=3 FLOPS per ALU)
- Fully Scalar design.
- 512-bit memory interface.
- 1024MB GDDR4 graphics memory.
- DirectX 10.1 support.
- OpenGL 3.0 Support.
- eDRAM die for "FREE 4xAA".
- built in Audio Chip.
- built in tesselation unit (in the graphics core"
- Improved AA and AF quality levels
I'll find a link to some news sites when I got the time.
G92 will be released in November 2007 timeframe in the form of "GeForce 9800" series.
"G92" GeForce 9800 GTX specs.
- 65nm process technology at TSMC.
- Over one billion transistors.
- Second Generation Unified Shader Architecture.
- Double precision support (FP64).
- GPGPU native.
- Over one TeraFLOPS of shader processing power.
- MADD+ADD configuration for the shader units (2+1 FLOPS=3 FLOPS per ALU)
- Fully Scalar design.
- 512-bit memory interface.
- 1024MB GDDR4 graphics memory.
- DirectX 10.1 support.
- OpenGL 3.0 Support.
- eDRAM die for "FREE 4xAA".
- built in Audio Chip.
- built in tesselation unit (in the graphics core"
- Improved AA and AF quality levels[/QUOTE]
Why isn't there any mention of DisplayPort? I've been under the impression that those cards should support at least one DP connector.