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From Croxis' feed, the state of America
Freejack
Jake the Not-so-Wise
in Zocalo v2.0
Here's the link from the other thread: [url]http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=2946&tag=nl.e539[/url]
It reminded me of an editorial I'd heard on NPR the other day ( [url]http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5350691[/url] ). The gist is that the US education system, viewed as a business, is responsible not to the consumer (the students) but the bureaucracy and government which supports it. The commentator advocates funding public education not from the top down, but from the bottom up so that educational institutions are responsible to the students, not the government
I had never really thought of school vouchers as an answer to many educational problems, but to heat the discussion framed as this commentator did, it makes some sense to me. I realize there are a lot of problems that would need to be addressed, but running schools as a business, where the consumers are the students seems like a good idea.
Jake
It reminded me of an editorial I'd heard on NPR the other day ( [url]http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5350691[/url] ). The gist is that the US education system, viewed as a business, is responsible not to the consumer (the students) but the bureaucracy and government which supports it. The commentator advocates funding public education not from the top down, but from the bottom up so that educational institutions are responsible to the students, not the government
I had never really thought of school vouchers as an answer to many educational problems, but to heat the discussion framed as this commentator did, it makes some sense to me. I realize there are a lot of problems that would need to be addressed, but running schools as a business, where the consumers are the students seems like a good idea.
Jake
Comments
I'll prepare my rant once I get back to work.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Freejack [/i]
[B]I realize there are a lot of problems that would need to be addressed, but running schools as a business, where the consumers are the students seems like a good idea.[/B][/QUOTE]
One of the problems is that you can't directly apply the business concept to schools, whether students are consumers or not. The business concept suggests that schools would then need to turn a profit, which does not necessarily lead to better education for the consumers. Obviously this is not a dead-end for the idea, but it is a problem that would need to be solved.
Similar to the business world, there would be strict standards for accounting for these broad metrics and all this information would be public (similar to a publicly traded company). Private schools would not have to use the same metrics as long as they did not receive public monies.
Jake
The other point of assessment if a learning opportunity. I always go over my quizzes and tests to see what I got wrong, and I learn from it. This never happens with SATs or even final papers and exams at the university level.
Assessment needs to happen all the time. Students need to be given a chance to be reassessed to see if any LEARNING has taken place. When I get a bit more teaching experience under my belt I will design a year long curriculum that will have no tests, and maybe even no quizzes. It will be up to the students to constantly prove to me that have a mastery of the material they need to master and it would be up to them to find a way to do that.
I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound boring to me!
[B]Yes, that would work, but I do hope when you say "struct standards for accounting for these broad metrics" you don't mean standardised testing. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
No I don't, hence the "broad" metrics. I believe more specific measurements will be choosen at a local level, and as a system as this becomes more well defined, I would imagine that a series of common measurements would be established.
That said, I don't think we will be able to get away from teaching guidelines and some standardized tests, they just need to be used in conjunction with other measurements of success.
In the end, I think the real benefit of a bottom-up payment system is the incentive on the part of a school to hire and retain good quality teaching staff who can understand and address the needs of different students, as opposed to medium skilled workers who are required to follow a very specific lesson plan.
Jake
[B]Assessment needs to happen all the time. Students need to be given a chance to be reassessed to see if any LEARNING has taken place. When I get a bit more teaching experience under my belt I will design a year long curriculum that will have no tests, and maybe even no quizzes. It will be up to the students to constantly prove to me that have a mastery of the material they need to master and it would be up to them to find a way to do that.
I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound boring to me! [/B][/QUOTE]
I'd be interested to see what you come up with. The real issue is that different students learn in very different ways. Some are very comfortable with the standard teach lesson - homework - test methods, others need to have the information packaged in relevent way, like how does the lesson apply to real life.
Something else that I fear is hurting the US education system is the lack of vocational education. There is a whole group of students who's interests are left behind and skill set short-changed when schools do away with vocational education, placing 100% emphasis on college prep.
Jake
Here is my argument for you tho: if students perfer the lesson - homework - test method, but forget a great deal after only a month, is that really learning?
Part of curriculum, especally in science, is constantly wrapping and refering to a bigger picture, constantly building upon previous ideas and making it clear that we are doing that.
Sorry if the was a bit scattered, I have students who need a whippen!
Jake
I'm not fond of any idea that would lead education to this direction, because it doesn't work.
Another problem is that Administration in these kinds of schools are always trying to find shortcuts to get around entrance requirements, and so you end up with students who require more attention and hold up the rest of the classes progress.
You can't buck the system either, or they'll just find someone who will tow the party line in your place.
When I went to the very same college that I ended up teaching at, I made every extra effort to utilize what resources were there, I stayed as long as I could without interupting the next class, etc. I even finished my course assignments a month early and benefitted from some facets of the course material I wouldn't have normally had a chance to get into.
I'm not like most students though, and I was lucky to have an instructor wwho was interested in my progress number one, and who was willing to take the extra time and effort beyond paid hours to help me out.
I tried to return the favor to my students for the next 5 years, but most of them just pissed the opportunities away.
In my mind, education needs a revamp from a grass roots level. Too much politics and elitism.
But I guess that problem has been around as long as humans have been having kids... :D
Psychologically speaking, us humies fall into roughly four very distinct 'ways of being' and attendant ways of learning.
Until we address that crucial difference in the ways our minds are wired, we are doomed to a half baked, ill fitting educational system. Even the most superficial study of psychology will show you that it's not only what you learn, but how you learn it that will determine the quality of your education.
Not only that, we probably shouldnt try to teach some things to some kids, above a 'survival' level. Allow them to drop what they just aren't built for and allow them to perfect what they are built for.
There are four basic ways to learn something :
1) Learn from example - Someone shows you, you try and copy it.
2) Learn by instruction - Someone tells you how it's done and you try to do it.
3) Learn by just doing it until you get the hang of it
4) Learn by investigation, studying something until you work it out yourself.
There are four basic brain designs which neatly encompass those 4 different learning styles.
Teach the right kid/brain, the right way and viola, quality education.
For example, in Japan, between the middle and Jr High school levels (somewhere between the equivelent of 7-8 grade I believe) Japanese students take an apptidute test, similar in purpose to the SAT/ACT tests in the US. The outcome of this test determines which high school they will attend, and in turn what college they will be admitted to. I'm not saying that there is anything seriously wrong with the Japanese education system, but what I can tell you is that in the 7th grade, I did not yet have the maturity to know what college I wanted to attend and where my life would take me.
Jake
There's already enough of that without adding fuel to the fire....
[B]For example, in Japan, between the middle and Jr High school levels (somewhere between the equivelent of 7-8 grade I believe) Japanese students take an apptidute test, similar in purpose to the SAT/ACT tests in the US. The outcome of this test determines which high school they will attend, and in turn what college they will be admitted to. I'm not saying that there is anything seriously wrong with the Japanese education system, but what I can tell you is that in the 7th grade, I did not yet have the maturity to know what college I wanted to attend and where my life would take me.[/B][/QUOTE]
That's not entirely correct, according to what I've been told.
In the last year of middle school (9th year of school), students sit examination type things that are used to get into the high school they've chosen (among other things). It's important to note that these are exams, not aptitude tests. The outcome of the exams determines if they are able to get into the high school they have chosen, but does not have that great an impact on what happens later in life for most students. All high schools provide educational support for leading to both university education and vocational training. Only the very best high schools are likely to promise entrance to one of the most prestigious universities, and even then it's nowhere near a 100% guarentee and in no way limits students from other schools getting into those universities. The schools are ranked based on how many of their students get into prestigious universities, but this is not a guarentee that students from a particular school will get into a particular university.
Students must all sit the same entrance exams for chosen universities, no matter what school they go to. For most students, they just try and get into the best high school they can, followed by the best university they can. Many don't even go to high school (education is only compulsory up to the end of middle school), but this number is pretty small as society (and thus parents) places a very high level of prestige and importance on education.
So to sum up the ramble: no, in Japan you don't sit a single aptitude test when you're 14 that determines the entire remainder of your education.
Also worth noting is that the Japanese do not beleive in pidgeon holing at all. They are very, very keen on the "everyone is the same, everyone is capable" approach. If anything, they're [i]too[/i] keen on it. They believe that if you put in enough effort, you can achieve what you want, not that it's guided by inherent personality traits.
Another thing worth adding is that being a teacher in Japan is considered a very prestigious (and stable) profession. Teachers are well paid and are considered to be among society's most important people, so much so that Japan has a large excess of trained teachers and there is massive competition for jobs. By contrast, most western countries seem to treat teachers like dirt.
[B]Something else that I fear is hurting the US education system is the lack of vocational education. There is a whole group of students who's interests are left behind and skill set short-changed when schools do away with vocational education, placing 100% emphasis on college prep.[/B][/QUOTE]
That isn't always a problem in all areas. Where I live, there are a number of vocational/technical high schools that also help place the students in positions as apprentices, where that sort of apprentice system is used.
[B]I tried to return the favor to my students for the next 5 years, but most of them just pissed the opportunities away. In my mind, education needs a revamp from a grass roots level. Too much politics and elitism.[/B][/QUOTE]
In my opinion, that particular problem often has its roots in the parents and how they raised the child.
[B]That isn't always a problem in all areas. Where I live, there are a number of vocational/technical high schools that also help place the students in positions as apprentices, where that sort of apprentice system is used. [/B][/QUOTE]
NZ has a problem at the moment where we have, over the past three or four decades, developed a culture where it's expected that everyone should go to university. It's partly due to the government removing the apprentice system a while ago, and a lack of proper vocational schools as the existing polytechnics try to become full universities (and offer programs like business degrees that most students want) without new polytechs appearing to replace them. As a result, we have a shortage of builders, plumbers, electricians, etc, and a lot of people trying to get a university--level education who shouldn't be. The current government is finally doing something about bringing apprenticeships back as a valid form of qualification, but it's going to be a long time before the cultural perception rights itself.
[B]That's not entirely correct, according to what I've been told...So to sum up the ramble: no, in Japan you don't sit a single aptitude test when you're 14 that determines the entire remainder of your education.[/B][/QUOTE]
You are probably right, that was just my observation of how my host brother viewed the test he was studing for when I stayed for a month in Yokohama, but I was 14 at the time.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]Another thing worth adding is that being a teacher in Japan is considered a very prestigious (and stable) profession. Teachers are well paid and are considered to be among society's most important people, so much so that Japan has a large excess of trained teachers and there is massive competition for jobs. By contrast, most western countries seem to treat teachers like dirt. [/B][/QUOTE]
That has to be the single most important element that is a problem with the US school system. Lack of respect of teaching as a high-value profession.
Jake