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Politics Thread (BEWARE!)
Random Chaos
Actually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
in Zocalo v2.0
[i]*Disclaimer: Try to keep this impersonal...we know how it gets here...[/i]
Ok, now on to the meat of it...the more I read the more I'm getting disgusted, not just with the Republican party, but with all members of congress.
1. Corruption
You have all heard of the ongoing scandals...I'll just breifly list them here. A new one caught my eye today:
[url]http://nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Tribes-Letters--Donations.html[/url]
[quote]
WASHINGTON (AP) -- New evidence is emerging that the top Democrat on the Senate committee currently investigating Jack Abramoff got political money arranged by the lobbyist back in 2002 shortly after the lawmaker took action favorable to Abramoff's tribal clients.
*snip*
The check was one of about [b]five dozen[/b] the Coushattas listed in a tribal ledger as being issued on March 6, 2002, to various lawmakers' campaigns and political causes at the instruction of Abramoff, tribal attorney Jimmy Faircloth said Monday.
*snip*
[/quote]
For a refresher, here's a short list of the main scandals at present:Tom DelayRobert NeyRandal CunninghamAbramoffThe Plame scandal...with LibbyBob Taft (Ohio Govenor)
And an article about money and politics: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801697.html[/url]
And the latest development involving Karl Rove and the Plame investigation: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801683.html[/url]
2. Cheney
The more I read, the more he disgusts me. The latest one is...disturbing.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4480638.stm[/url]
[quote]
Cheney accused on prisoner abuse
A top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell has launched a stinging attack on US Vice-President Dick Cheney over abuse of prisoners by US troops.
*snip*[/quote]
And then I read, about 5 minutes later, about Cheney's abuse of tax dollars on political trips: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801446.html[/url]
3. Katrina
And then finally, I hit this story about Katrina and the lack of government responce...absolutely disgusting:
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/11/29/BL2005112900314.html[/url]
[quote]
Slow-Motion Disaster
For once, I don't think I can blame the media.
Journalists keep writing stories about how awful things are in New Orleans. Time did a cover story last week: "It's Worse Than You Think." And yet three months after Katrina struck, the administration hasn't done much, Congress seems distracted by other issues, and there seems to be no sense of national urgency about the slow destruction of a major American city.
*snip*[/quote]
Read on in that article and you see just how bad it is:
[quote]
About 250,000 devastated businesses have applied to SBA loans, while only a couple hundred have been approved. Isn't that as lackadaisical a response as FEMA's?
*snip*
Some 284,000 homes were destroyed by the hurricane. Some people got flood-insurance payments, while others in the same neighborhood were denied.
*snip*
Meanwhile, FEMA's brilliant plan was to kick out most of the 150,000 evacuees still living in hotel rooms, as of this week. After a huge uproar in the affected states, the deadline was pushed back to Jan. 7. But what happens then?
*snip*[/quote]
Read the whole thing to get everything...truely disturbing.
4. Intelligent Design
A truely insightful article appeared in the BBC on this:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4469590.stm[/url]
Conclusion
What is wrong with our government? I'm not talking about one particular party, but the whole thing. There are a lot of people to blame for what is going on, and it doesn't lie just among with the Republicans.
Ok, now on to the meat of it...the more I read the more I'm getting disgusted, not just with the Republican party, but with all members of congress.
1. Corruption
You have all heard of the ongoing scandals...I'll just breifly list them here. A new one caught my eye today:
[url]http://nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Tribes-Letters--Donations.html[/url]
[quote]
WASHINGTON (AP) -- New evidence is emerging that the top Democrat on the Senate committee currently investigating Jack Abramoff got political money arranged by the lobbyist back in 2002 shortly after the lawmaker took action favorable to Abramoff's tribal clients.
*snip*
The check was one of about [b]five dozen[/b] the Coushattas listed in a tribal ledger as being issued on March 6, 2002, to various lawmakers' campaigns and political causes at the instruction of Abramoff, tribal attorney Jimmy Faircloth said Monday.
*snip*
[/quote]
For a refresher, here's a short list of the main scandals at present:Tom DelayRobert NeyRandal CunninghamAbramoffThe Plame scandal...with LibbyBob Taft (Ohio Govenor)
And an article about money and politics: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801697.html[/url]
And the latest development involving Karl Rove and the Plame investigation: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801683.html[/url]
2. Cheney
The more I read, the more he disgusts me. The latest one is...disturbing.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4480638.stm[/url]
[quote]
Cheney accused on prisoner abuse
A top aide to former Secretary of State Colin Powell has launched a stinging attack on US Vice-President Dick Cheney over abuse of prisoners by US troops.
*snip*[/quote]
And then I read, about 5 minutes later, about Cheney's abuse of tax dollars on political trips: [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/28/AR2005112801446.html[/url]
3. Katrina
And then finally, I hit this story about Katrina and the lack of government responce...absolutely disgusting:
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/11/29/BL2005112900314.html[/url]
[quote]
Slow-Motion Disaster
For once, I don't think I can blame the media.
Journalists keep writing stories about how awful things are in New Orleans. Time did a cover story last week: "It's Worse Than You Think." And yet three months after Katrina struck, the administration hasn't done much, Congress seems distracted by other issues, and there seems to be no sense of national urgency about the slow destruction of a major American city.
*snip*[/quote]
Read on in that article and you see just how bad it is:
[quote]
About 250,000 devastated businesses have applied to SBA loans, while only a couple hundred have been approved. Isn't that as lackadaisical a response as FEMA's?
*snip*
Some 284,000 homes were destroyed by the hurricane. Some people got flood-insurance payments, while others in the same neighborhood were denied.
*snip*
Meanwhile, FEMA's brilliant plan was to kick out most of the 150,000 evacuees still living in hotel rooms, as of this week. After a huge uproar in the affected states, the deadline was pushed back to Jan. 7. But what happens then?
*snip*[/quote]
Read the whole thing to get everything...truely disturbing.
4. Intelligent Design
A truely insightful article appeared in the BBC on this:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4469590.stm[/url]
Conclusion
What is wrong with our government? I'm not talking about one particular party, but the whole thing. There are a lot of people to blame for what is going on, and it doesn't lie just among with the Republicans.
Comments
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Random Chaos [/i]
[B][i]*Disclaimer: Try to keep this impersonal...we know how it gets here...[/i]
[/B][/QUOTE]
Alot of the problem with the FEMA and SBA response is they have to go through propper channels. The amount of red tape to do anything is horrendous.
And alot of it is demanded by law, by statute inacted by congress. Despite the fact its a disaster and things need to get done now, they cant go violating the laws, even if they are stupid. And frankly to many "interests" are served by all that red tape, so dont expect it to get changed any time soon.
As for the corruption its very, very wide spread on both sides of the isle. The new New Jersey governer has been under several investigations, and it touches both parties there, which is why nothing serious has been done about it.
The senior senator from Nevada Harry Reid (D) Senate minority leader (IE honcho of the democrats in the senate) has not only now been connected to the Abramoff thing, but its been known in conservative circles for a while, that while he has been calling for cleaning up the corruption, while at the same time arranging for federal lands to be privatised and go to interests that were paying something around a million dollars to his son and son in laws lobbying buisnesses.
Barbra Boxer took about a 100,000 from Milberg Weiss a lawfirm which is currently undergoing several criminal investigations for bribery and other things.
Once we seriously start looking you start to realize that there isnty anybody pure in the game.
Hell considering every election cycle both parties end up getting nailed for millions in fines for electoral violations. Frankly in american politis it isnt the party that cheats and steals and backstabs that wins, its the party that cheats and backstabs and steals the best this round that wins.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Random Chaos [/i]
[B]There are a lot of people to blame for what is going on, and it doesn't lie just among with the Republicans. [/B][/QUOTE]
Do you know who the blame lies with? The American public of voting age. The majority voted in each of those politicians. Don't like it? Become more of an activist and campaign for better politicians, even if just as a volunteer staffer.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JohnD [/i]
[B]Do you know who the blame lies with? The American public of voting age. The majority voted in each of those politicians. Don't like it? Become more of an activist and campaign for better politicians, even if just as a volunteer staffer. [/B][/QUOTE]
Right, because that actually works.
here's a question tho: we've all said that the system doesnt work, so what would you have to replace it? or how would you change it?
i personally hold the same opinion as Anakin: there's nothing wrong with a dictator as long as he serves the people
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Random Chaos [/i]
[B]Ok, now on to the meat of it...the more I read the more I'm getting disgusted, not just with the Republican party, but with all members of congress.[/B][/QUOTE]Pretty much the bigger the party, the more corrupted it is.
[img]http://corpwatch.org/img/original/torture_new.jpg[/img]
And you forgot Cheney's bed partner, Halliburton.
[url]http://corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12476[/url]
[quote]According to the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) December 2004 National Response Plan (NRP), when responding to a catastrophic incident, the federal government should immediately begin emergency operations, even in the absence of a clear assessment of the situation. Because a "detailed and credible common operating picture may not be achievable for 24 to 48 hours (or longer) after the incident," the NRP's "Catastrophic Annex" states that "response activities must begin without the benefit of a detailed or complete situation and critical needs assessment."
In fact, it wasn't until August 31, two days after the hurricane struck, that DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff declared Katrina an "Incident of National Significance," "triggering for the first time a coordinated federal response to states and localities overwhelmed by disaster," according to the Associated Press.
Kelly also cited Steenwyk's claim that the federal response to Katrina "during the 72-96 hour" period was "unprecedented" and "faster" than all other recent storms, including Hurricane Andrew. But, as CJR Daily has noted, Miami Herald columnist Leonard Pitts Jr., whose house was damaged by Andrew, had a different recollection in a September 9 Herald op-ed:
The day after I crawled from the wreckage of my home in 1992, the Federal Emergency Management Agency was there with water. Shortly thereafter came low-interest loans and other forms of help.
By contrast, a woman who saw me conducting interviews in Bogalusa, La., seven days after Katrina struck marched up and demanded to know if I was, finally, the man from FEMA because her house was split in two and she and her husband and children and grandchildren were sleeping on the porch.[/quote][quote]In fact, as Media Matters has noted, according to Department of Defense officials, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco and Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour had requested additional Guard personnel before the storm hit. And, as the Associated Press reported on September 3, Blanco accepted an offer for additional troops from New Mexico the day before the hurricane hit, but that help was delayed by paperwork needed from Washington.[/quote][url]http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120009[/url]
So pretty much looks like only way out would be throwing all bureaucrats and politicians over the side and sinking them to deepest spot of ocean.
After all you don't start patching small holes in the roof if building is totally rotten.
I think a great deal with this problem is that many/most people in federal government positions are of a law or business background. State governments tend to be more diverse (our most recent ex governor was a doctor). Mind you people who wish to be in these positions SHOULD be familiar with law and governments, but not lawyers.
Shouldn't government not just represent location but background as well? Why arnt doctors, teachers, vocational (yes I have met MANY intelligent blue collar workers), scientists, dancers, computer geeks, and musicians run for a campaign? Would having more normal people improve the government?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Arethusa [/i]
[B]Right, because that actually works. [/B][/QUOTE]
It does, when people stop making excuses like "that won't work" and get off their lazy rear ends. Making excuses is easy. Complaining about the status quo is easy. Fixing the problem takes actual work.
[B]here's a question tho: we've all said that the system doesnt work, so what would you have to replace it? or how would you change it?[/B][/QUOTE]
I think the system works as long as the citizens maintain a sense of accountability for the politicians. Screw up? Then you get voted out by a landslide next time or get recalled the next week.
We've become far too soft and complacent in this country.
{serious now}
Ok I've read people would consider a computer the next best answer to getting a perfect president/government. But why not take it to the next step, make the president ACT like the PRESIDENT! I wonder how much of that job is paperwork and the other half actually doing something? Yeah, yeah your schedule is controlled your DOING something. But how much of that talk with NAACP really meant a damn to anyone in the real world.
The problem is the one person that should be there for us, isn't...Would it be so crazy for the president to actually go out to Louisiana and actually see for himself the damage? OR just to talk to real people...This goes for any leader, the more friends you have, the more people you can help. The one person that should be president we could probably never elect because hes a really nice guy, and no one likes nice guys! We don't neccesarily need a better government...We need one good person that will say the shit we've all been waiting to hear & do what we've all wanted to be done! You don't have to be part of this government to make a difference! Helping doesn't take a wad of cash it takes a heart!
Gentleman I'll see you on the 23rd!
As if they needed any more "red tape" in government:
[QUOTE]NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Two government employees were charged Tuesday with taking kickbacks on the purchase of 100,000 rolls of red tape.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/29/AR2005112901788.html[/url]
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4482174.stm[/url]
[quote][b]Science faces 'dangerous times'[/b]
Fundamentalism is hampering global efforts to tackle climate change, according to Britain's top scientist.
In his final speech as president of the Royal Society, Lord May of Oxford is to warn that core scientific values are "under serious threat from resurgent fundamentalism, West and East". [/quote]
[B]Another interesting article from the BBC:[/B][/QUOTE]
Thankfully I won't be seeing any of that at my job any time soon...just the after-effects of the ridiciulous military cutbacks the current administration has been pushing as they fight two wars out in the Middle East and Central Asia.
The western part, the southern (and middle) part and the northern part.
[B]A not so serious idea: Wouldnt splitting the USA up in three sections be a good idea?
The western part, the southern (and middle) part and the northern part. [/B][/QUOTE]The Northeast and the Northwest should join Canada. :)
[B]The Northeast and the Northwest should join Canada. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
No thanks. I'd prefer not to do that.
[B]you mean to say you don't like hockey pucks? [/B][/QUOTE]
Or Molson :)
[B]Or Molson :) [/B][/QUOTE] Molson? oohhhhhhhh [IMG]http://40ouncebeer.com/pics24/molson.jpg[/IMG]
MOLSON.
Problem with a dictator is if hes an idiot there really is no one to question him. Like Hitler as the best example! Too old too begin the training!
[B]Problem with a dictator is if hes an idiot there really is no one to question him. Like Hitler as the best example! Too old too begin the training! [/B][/QUOTE]
thats why you make it like a reality tv show :D