Second set of bomb blasts in London...

Freejack · July 2005

...fortunately these look to have been botched, so no major casualties.

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163186,00.html[/url]

Jake

Morden279 · July 2005

They've made two arrests; hopefully these are the reprobates who tried to carry out the attacks.

Regards,
Morden

ShadowDancer · July 2005

it would appear that the only casualty in the attacks was the guy who was attempting to detonate his own bomb. delicious irony IMO, but we definitly got lucky this time

sleepy_shadow · July 2005

Irony is delicious -- and will hopefully soothe inconvenience related to these occurrences.

It really looks almost... like somebody ran out of qualified volunteers, resorting to bumbling fools wielding devices made by *more* bumbling fools.

I must admit surprise. My pessimist side exhibits unwillingness to believe it really happened. But if it did... that much better. It may offer slight but welcome advantages.

IF the claimed casualty was one of the bombers... I hope he only managed to cripple himself. That would still permit him to attend a court (and perhaps answer a few questions).

And IF the rumour of police having also obtained an unexploded bomb is true... there should also be an unusual source of hints, clues and quality evidence.

Morden279 · July 2005

The armed police chased one fleeing suspect down, piled on top of him, and fired five-rounds-rapid into the back of his head. Nice to see our lads learning a thing or two from the SAS.

Regards,
Morden

Messiah · July 2005

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Morden279 [/i]
[B]The armed police chased one fleeing suspect down, piled on top of him, and fired five-rounds-rapid into the back of his head. Nice to see our lads learning a thing or two from the SAS.

Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]

What!!? They executed a suspect just like that?

Biggles · July 2005

While I'm not saying they necessarily did the right thing, if a guy's running around with bombs strapped to his waist and the obvious disposition to be willing to die, what are you likely to do?

Morden279 · July 2005

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Messiah [/i]
[B]What!!? They executed a suspect just like that? [/B][/QUOTE]

He was approached by armed Police who had their weapons drawn and ordered to surrender. He refused, and fled. Not only this, but he was a suspect who was already under observation.

The chaps who shot him were from S019. They wouldn't have done it without good reason.

Regards,
Morden

Messiah · July 2005

From what you said, it sounds like they had him under control, and then capped him..

If hes a suspect, that doesnt mean hes guilty, unless proven.

ShadowDancer · July 2005

let me put it to you this way: he was given 5 warnings by armed police, he then fled [i]towards[/i] a tube station, jumped the ticket barriers and tried to board a tube train. he was apparently pakistani, and according to some eyewitnesses had what appeared to be a bomb belt on. what would you conclude from all this? i think the officers were perfectly justified to shoot him.

if they hadnt, and they guy was a bomber and successfully carried out the strike, you would now be wondering why the officers [i]didnt[/i] shoot to stop him:rolleyes:

Messiah · July 2005

Didnt have all that information.

From this: [QUOTE]The armed police chased one fleeing suspect down, piled on top of him, and fired five-rounds-rapid into the back of his head[/QUOTE] quote, it sounds a little different..

Jambo · July 2005

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Morden279 [/i]
[B]The armed police chased one fleeing suspect down, piled on top of him, and fired five-rounds-rapid into the back of his head. Nice to see our lads learning a thing or two from the SAS.

Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm[/url]

Very fucking nice, yes.

Morden279 · July 2005

Regrettable, but to be honest, the Armed Police need these new regulations to take out suicide bombers more effectively in the future. Hence my "nice to see" comment. The armed police have a job to do, and a bloody difficult one at, that given the circumstances. I feel sorry for the officer who had to make the call and pull the trigger. Every single indicator pointed towards "use deadly force", and he did as his training dicatated.

I'd also like to echo ShadowDancer's comments; Why did the man run despite the continued warnings?

Regards,
Morden

Messiah · July 2005

Perhaps he didnt speak english, were the policemen wearing uniforms?

Anyway, Im glad they didnt "pile on top of him" and then shoot. If he fled, then they had a reason to stop him...

Morden279 · July 2005

There still hasn't been a really accurate account of what happened. Some eyewiness statements say the Police "piled on top" of the suspect, some don't. It'll be a while before we gain the full picture.

As for the Police wearing uniforms, they were described as being in "plain clothes" however, since they were SO19, they might have been wearing their characteristic peaked caps. (Normally put on as identifiers just before they go operational.)

Regards,
Morden

Jambo · July 2005

I'm glad you've just mentioned the plain clothes part, as I was just about to.

If some guy in a white t-shirt and jeans pulls a gun on you, and then shouts at you to stop, what would you do?

CHEESE IT!

Morden279 · July 2005

Seeing as the officers verbally identified themselves as "Armed Police" when they challenged the man, I would have probably put my hands up and followed their instructions.

Regards,
Morden

Messiah · July 2005

Perhaps the guy was a pakistani on a visit (and couldnt speak english)?

Morden279 · July 2005

If so, the officer couldn't have known that. The bombers have as of yet, been English-speaking British citizens.

Regards,
Morden

Jambo · July 2005

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Morden279 [/i]
[B]Seeing as the officers verbally identified themselves as "Armed Police" when they challenged the man, I would have probably put my hands up and followed their instructions.

Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]

The BBC is reporting that the man may be Brazillian, he may not have understood what they were shouting at him.

Morden279 · July 2005

Since the deceased was already under observation, it'll be interesting to see if the shooters on the ground were informed of his linguistic capacity. Still, it hasn't been confirmed whether he could speak English or not.

The sooner we know more, the better.

Regards,
Morden

Messiah · July 2005

He was from Brazil, he had been living in London for three years though. Chances was he didnt understand what they were shouting at him. He wasnt under obsevation..

From what Ive read and seen about this, it gets more and more clear that he was summarily executed. Thay had him and they shot him. Tragic business. :(

sleepy_shadow · July 2005

I personally suspect it was a moment of:

[i]"Somebody radio... shit, we have nobody at the station!"[/i]

Given the (incomplete) information I have currently read, I suspect the unfortunate incident *might* have been avoidable by having the (allegedly?) plain-clothes officers give chase just in case... but foremost radio an uniformed officer (better if multiple, with vests, helmets and all necessary gear to convey anyone a clear messasge [i]"this is as official as it gets"[/i]), in position closer to the guarded tube station, to intercept him.

Without that precaution, had he really been a suicide bomber with a trait for running... as things went... he would have won the race, because he reached the train.

------------

Naturally, the opinion that the first interceptors should have handed the task forward... applies only if they failed to follow correct procedure (indeed lacked a clearly discernible uniform, and pulled a weapon *before* showing their police ID).

Otherwise he should have stopped, and I would consider his fault if he fled, especially in direction of an object under increased protection, which would *most* concern them, and *most* likely lead them to stop him regardless of cost.

Needless to say, I find that fairly difficult to believe -- and hope they acted properly -- although I do hope the situation will be carefully examined.

--------------

[i]P.S. If a person whom I cannot immediately associate with the law enforcement of a trusted administrative unit pulled a gun on me... I would likewise run, and if I *could* run through an enclosed staircase, short tunnel (definitely not a long tunnel) or corridor...

...in such a place, I *would* try employing my only effective defense (presuming I am on everyday business) against most possible pursuers, by leaving behind a nasty trail of high-concentration CS/pepper mixture, which a person attempting to follow would hopefully need to breathe.

For this reason, I would certainly like to think that, should police have reason to stop me, they would either present a recognizable uniform, or introduce themselves first.[/i]

Morden279 · July 2005

It'll probably be MONTHS before the complete picture is known, to be honest. These investigations take time, especially if the case being investigated is as controversial as this.

Regards,
Morden

PSI-KILLER · July 2005

Just had to post this test below I found on the internet. the problems were always here , the cold war kept if fuzzy but it was still going on. Death and war always goes hand in hand. The Brits must protect themselves, to do nothing is a real crime.

Profiling

Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple

choice test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They
actually
happened!!!

Do you remember?

-1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by

a. Superman

b. Jay Leno

c. Harry Potter

d. Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and
massacred
by

a. Olga Corbett

b. Sitting Bull

c. Arnold Schwarzenegger

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:

a. Lost Norwegians

b. Elvis

c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3.During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:

a. John Dillinger

b. The King of Sweden

c. The Boy Scouts

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:

a. A pizza delivery boy

b. Pee Wee Herman

c. Geraldo Rivera

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair
by:
a. The Smurfs

b. Davy Jones

c. The Little Mermaid

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6.In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:

a. Captain Kidd

b. Charles Lindberg

c. Mother Teresa

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7.In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:

a. Scooby Doo

b. The Tooth Fairy

c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:

a. Richard Simmons

b. Grandma Moses

c. Michael Jordan

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9.In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:

a. Mr. Rogers

b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women
problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10.On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.Thousands of people were killed by:

a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd

b. The Supreme Court of Florida

c Mr. Bean

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11.In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:

a. Enron

b. The Lutheran Church

c. The NFL

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:

a. Bonnie and Clyde

b. Captain Kangaroo

c. Billy Graham

d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe
Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone because of profiling.

Interesting!

TheRaven · July 2005

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PSI-KILLER [/i]
[B]Interesting![/B][/QUOTE]

Nope, Fascist! You can easily make a similar list of the white Christian male aged 17-40, you just will not see this appear on the net :rolleyes:

Bullshit like this is exactly the reason why I have been searched in the past with a gun in the hand of the officer. :mad: My sole "crime" was "walking suspciously fast". Or why an innocent man can be executed just because he ran away...

PSI-KILLER · July 2005

Why would an innocent man run away? The Civil Liberties union has been known for some wacky positions but they do have a list of what to do and not to do in that situation.

[url]http://www.racialprofilinglegalhelp.com/whattodo.html[/url]

The thing is knowing. I have been questioned by police too. Usally they just want to know why your in a particuler place at a certain time. In the end, if you just show respect they let you go on your way. No matter what state of mind your in or what youve injested.

TheRaven · July 2005

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PSI-KILLER [/i]
[B]Why would an innocent man run away? [/B][/QUOTE]

Maybe because he had some bad experience with the police in the past? I really do not know if I would stay or run - and I am completely innocent (legally ;) ).

Messiah · July 2005

Because they wore civilian clothes and pointed a gun at him..?

Jambo · July 2005

Hey PSI-Killer, can you take my profilling test?

Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually happened!!!

Do you remember?

1. In 1972, Bloody Friday, 9 people are killed by:

a. The Queen
b. Winston Churchill
c. A Muslim Scholar
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1974 a pub in Guildford England is bombed, killing 5 and injuring more than 40, by:

a. The entire cast of Monty Python
b. Muslim Males between the ages of 17 and 40
c. A group of young conservatives
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3. 1974 again, a pub bomb in Birmingham kills more than 15 people, with hundreds injured. Who done it?

a. Mary Whitehouse
b. Bob Hope
c. Ronald Reagan
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. In 1982, Hyde Park, several members of the Houshold Cavalry are killed by bombs planted by:

a. Bob Monkhouse
b. A roaming group of Hari-Krishnas
c. A young muslim boy on his way to mosque
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1983, Harrods (a large, popular, shopping centre in London) was bombed during a busy christmas shopping period by:

a. Tony Benn
b. Leonid Brezhnev
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6. In 1984 the grand hotel in Brighton was bombed in an attempt to kill the PM and members of her cabinet, 5 were killed by:

a. The Communist Party of Great Britain and Norther Ireland
b. Francois Mitterand
c. A privately educated school boy
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7.In 1987 a remembrance day parade in Eniskillen is bombed, 10 die and many injured. Who planted the bomb?

a. Great Cthulhu
b. Lord Lucan
c. Princess Diana
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8.In 1993 two children were blown apart while out shopping in Warrington by:

a. Neil Kinnock
b. Tony the Tiger
c. Homer Simpson
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9. In 1993 two people are killed and millions of pounds worth of damaged because of bombs planted by:

a. Mr Bean
b. The Pope
c. David Beckham
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10.In 1993 a bomb in a Belfast fish and chip shop kills several. The bomb was planted by:

a. The entire cast of HMS Pinafore
b. Several angry Lords
c. Gary Newman
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10. In 1996 London and Manchester and bombed causing billions of pounds worth of damage, the bombs were placed by:

a. The BMA
b. Unionised Factory Workers
c. Angry Old Ladies who'd just had their bus passes revoked
d. White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure you Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe
Foss, but leave White Irish Catholics mostly between the ages of 17 and 40 alone because of profiling.

Interesting!

Messiah · July 2005

Good one Jambo.

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