ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PSI-KILLER [/i]
[B]I actually needed some time too think about episode III. I saw it last thursday at 12 AM. I actually rented ep I and bought ep II. If you look at the whole story line it is actually very disturbing. In ep I the Jedi actually tells Anakins mother "we are not here to free slaves!" Like what the hell is a Jedi supposed to be doing? The Jedi Knights actually deserved everything they got allowing evil to be accepted way before Palpatine took advantage of the situation. [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah, but slavery in that part of the galaxy was allowed by law. jedi are afterall supposed to uphold the law, and freeing slaves would be against the law there, hence why Qui-Gon had to free Anakin thru the race, and not just disappear him
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by riku [/i]
[B]Good movie except for Anakin's turn to the dark-side. his motives for doing so were stupid and with no sense. [/B][/QUOTE]
I was going to mention that. That was truly the weakest part of the movie. It was just so easy for him to make the jump. Even though he was disgruntled over how he was treated he never really seems THAT upset about it. He even goes as far as blowing Palpatine's cover to the Jedi council and then for the stupidest reason just basically says, you know what screw it, I'm going with the bad guys anyway. I expectied it him to slowly be tempted into the darkside but that was just too easy.
At the beginning when Anikin had Dookoo, Palpatine told him to kill him because he was too dangerous, Anikin KNEW it was against the Jedi way, and felt remorse for doing that act.
Then he learns that the Jedi themselves do not hold to the ideals they claim to, by asking him to spy on Palpatine.
And then, the last blow, was when Palpatine was supposed to be arrested, but, "Because he is too dangerous" Windu was going to kill him.
It wasn't just that he was upset at how he was being treated, it was that his faith in the Jedi order was crushed, the only person that really stayed the same was Palpatine, who had always treated Anikin kindly, even after Anikin turned him in. Once he gave over to the dark side, it totally consumed him.
And yes, Padme was a big concern as well, but, as you'll note, it was a secondary concern, as he DID turn Palpatine in, even though he assumed he would be kept alive.
It wasn't so much as being drawn to the dark side, as being totally disallusioned to the light side.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]I think you guys missed some major points:
At the beginning when Anikin had Dookoo, Palpatine told him to kill him because he was too dangerous, Anikin KNEW it was against the Jedi way, and felt remorse for doing that act.
Then he learns that the Jedi themselves do not hold to the ideals they claim to, by asking him to spy on Palpatine.
And then, the last blow, was when Palpatine was supposed to be arrested, but, "Because he is too dangerous" Windu was going to kill him.
It wasn't just that he was upset at how he was being treated, it was that his faith in the Jedi order was crushed, the only person that really stayed the same was Palpatine, who had always treated Anikin kindly, even after Anikin turned him in. Once he gave over to the dark side, it totally consumed him.
And yes, Padme was a big concern as well, but, as you'll note, it was a secondary concern, as he DID turn Palpatine in, even though he assumed he would be kept alive.
It wasn't so much as being drawn to the dark side, as being totally disallusioned to the light side. [/B][/QUOTE]
I understand those points which is why I mention he was pretty pissed about his treatment. While that was shattering his faith, it still seemed like he still appeared sane enough to not have been so easily consumed so violently and suddenly the way he was. At the very least it was just too early. The jump from loosing his faith in the Jedi to becoming a complete monster, particularly when killing the younglins just felt too sudden and unnatural.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]I understand those points which is why I mention he was pretty pissed about his treatment. While that was shattering his faith, it still seemed like he still appeared sane enough to not have been so easily consumed so violently and suddenly the way he was. At the very least it was just too early. The jump from loosing his faith in the Jedi to becoming a complete monster, particularly when killing the younglins just felt too sudden and unnatural. [/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly the point... there may've been enough reasons for him to turn, but the acting was probably that bad so we didn't feel like he actually cared so much about it.
the Jedi will take over the republic, Palp's story about Plaugis, when Anakin finds out Palp is the Sith lord, and ESPECIALLY the love for Padme - he seems very apathetic to all these points therefore it wasn't convincing.
if the emotions acting were much better then so would've the plot and the whole turning thing.
I really didn't feel that Padme and Anakin loved each other it felt like they're reading a dialogue from a backcamera in a very unproffesional way.
Pardon me if this has already been mentioned, but I feel that the lack of proper displayed motivation in mr. skywalker is simply due to a lack of proper development of Palpatine and his relationship with Ani. It was very clear to me that in the last movie, he had gained a very large amount of trust in him and his ways (which directly lead into Episode III). With all sorts of conflicting information floating around, Anakin ends up turning to the one person he feels he can truly trust for information, and gets mislead into believing he is being truly betrayed by his friends, and that they are indeed just plain using him for his abilities as well as holding him back out of pure spite. And with everything going on, Palpatine is one of the few truly static, predictable figures, a sort of "voice of reason" amongst chaos (or at least that's how he makes himself out to be). Because of this, because of the fact that he's consistently proven right regardless of the fact that he is causing much of the stuff to actually happen (indirectly or otherwise) is beside the fact. The important part is that he told Anakin the truth when it was needed most, and the trust forming between them was simply not elaborated on enough to make a strong enough impact. It just sort of happened.
Or something.
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]Or something. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]Pardon me if this has already been mentioned, but I feel that the lack of proper displayed motivation in mr. skywalker is simply due to a lack of proper development of Palpatine and his relationship with Ani. It was very clear to me that in the last movie, he had gained a very large amount of trust in him and his ways (which directly lead into Episode III). With all sorts of conflicting information floating around, Anakin ends up turning to the one person he feels he can truly trust for information, and gets mislead into believing he is being truly betrayed by his friends, and that they are indeed just plain using him for his abilities as well as holding him back out of pure spite. And with everything going on, Palpatine is one of the few truly static, predictable figures, a sort of "voice of reason" amongst chaos (or at least that's how he makes himself out to be). Because of this, because of the fact that he's consistently proven right regardless of the fact that he is causing much of the stuff to actually happen (indirectly or otherwise) is beside the fact. The important part is that he told Anakin the truth when it was needed most, and the trust forming between them was simply not elaborated on enough to make a strong enough impact. It just sort of happened.
Or something. [/B][/QUOTE]One of the themes that they really missed out on was the father-son relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin, and Palpatine and Anakin. They could've cut out that 60% of Episode II that didn't advance the plot at all to make room for it. :)
Personally, I think that Anakin's fall made perfect sense, although the movie didn't do a very good job of getting the message across.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by the_exile [/i]
[B]Personally, I think that Anakin's fall made perfect sense, although the movie didn't do a very good job of getting the message across. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's sort of what I was getting at, but in a very convoluted way.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by wiseguy [/i]
[B]worse scene:
the "i'm standing on my balcony innocently combing my hair while we tell each other how much we love the other" scene :indysick: [/B][/QUOTE]
Definately!
:/
George will leave that scene in Ep III, but yank the ones about the Jedi Fighter Hyper Rings in orbit around Coruscant in Ep II...
I don't think power was his main concern, or even much of a player there at all. It was more a greatly displaced sense of loyalty and a desire to preserve this state of stability and comfort he had achieved in his life. With Padme and such now being a mother, and the war going on, he wanted to do as much as he could to restore a safe world for he and his future family to be raised. The issue arose when this state was disrupted, or at least threatened to be disrupted by the dreams, basically mirroring his past. He once had a comfortable place in his life, he had his life as a child, as a talented mechanic with his mother, one of the few (if anyone else existed) people he felt connected with, living with him and making his life happy. When she was captured and killed, his very essence was savagely beaten down and that which he cared for most was lost in an instant. And what's worse, he felt as if he could have stopped it, could have protected it had he understoodthe visions. Wilth everything hapenning again (and with Padme filling the role his mother had previously played), he did what he felt he could to prevent the loss of the only other important figure in his life. And so here we are.
Cut the opening scene down and cut the Greivous/Obi-wan fight scene down. Make more room for relationship, plot development, a bit of Senatorial discussion, a bit more intro on Bail Organa who comes out of no-where and a of course Jar-Jar jumping up and down screaming "Messah so happy" when Palpatine declares the Empire.
Maybe with some of Anakins jump might be more belivable. I can accept turning on Mace at that critical moment (barely) but going off to kill younglings. No way. George should have thrown in a couple shots in ep II or ep II of some memory of the other younglings treating Anakin like dirt or something. Anakin is soooo concerned about his kid and yet goes off to kill other kids with impunity. I can't make the leap. I need more justification.
I loved the part where Palpatines' old master is Anakin father (via Meticlorine manipulation). Now we need to redo episode five and six. Darth also tell Threepio "I am your father." Threepio replies, "Oh my." In epVI the Emperor bust out with the fact that is sort of like Darth Vader's older brother and therefore Luke's Uncle. Good Han only a second cousin or Leia couldn't marry him. :p
I just finished playing the video game. I was very impressed by the accuratcy the game and movie were alike. Clips of the movie were part of the game. Intereresting alternate ending in the game where Anikin actually gets to kill Obi-wan in the fire river and then gets to kill Palpetine when he comes to get Anikin. Anikin then declars himself Emporer and no Darth Vader ever exists. Interesting allternate timeline I guess.
Seen it twice. GL has redeemed himself in my humble eyes. Granted acting still isn't all that great, but beats ep2 hands-down.
Memorable scenes: Padme looking out over the coruscant sunset, right before Anakin's betrayal. The last sunset of the Old Republic. Then there's Yoda waltzing into the senate chamber and casually force-pushing the guards out of the way. That one had the audience in stitches.
I gotta say I don't ever want to play cards with Palpatine, that man's one HELL of a gambler. If he's miscalculated with Anakin, I'm positive Mace would have kicked his butt from here to Tatooine. No contingency plans, no last-minute escapes. Also telling Vader the truth about Padme's death was another dangerous risk. Vader might have turned on the Emperor right there, enraged that he'd betrayed his friends for nothing. An easy half-truth "Obi-wan killed her" would have been safer.
The one major dissapointment here was Padme. I know she can't very well be on a battlefield kicking ass and all with kids on the way, but come on. Apart from her one memorable line "So this is how liberty dies. In thunderous applause", she didn't do much of anything. It would have been nice if she came close to speaking out against the emperor, but her advisors remind her that Naboo would end up under blockade all over again, and she reluctantly assents. She lost the will to live and left her children behind? What an ignoble way to die.
Wow this turned in to a lengthier rant than I thought.
I wonder if it would ever be possible, with enough motivation and fan effort, to add in "missing content" once it comes out on DVD, fill in some space and flesh out some of the scenes a bit more either with actors who sound/look similar or such.
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
yeah, that'll be in the 'special' special release once he's released it, the complete star wars box set, the special edition and the directors cut edition:rolleyes:
I've heard, but doubting its true, that Obi Wan is boffing Padme on the side. It would really explain Anakins rage and some of his lines like "I wont let you take her from me." :o
Anakin may have [i]thought[/i] Obi-Wan was having an affair with his wife, but we know that's wrong. Witness this cut scene (complete with Jar-Jar cameo).
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by David of Mac [/i]
[B]Anakin may have [i]thought[/i] Obi-Wan was having an affair with his wife, but we know that's wrong. Witness this cut scene (complete with Jar-Jar cameo).
Ah, that old bastard. Helps put Anakin's rank paranoia when he asks PadmŽ if Obi-Wan dropped by earlier in context, though. [/B][/QUOTE]
I finally saw it, I was waiting for it to come to our local theatre, which was the same theatre that i saw Star Wars in in 1977.
overall i liked it, the pacing sucked, it felt like lucas just kept remembering things he had to fit in, and it made the film very choppy,
I didn't like Darth Vader's dance of woe at the news of padme's death, ugh, that was awful awful awful.
Comments
[B]I actually needed some time too think about episode III. I saw it last thursday at 12 AM. I actually rented ep I and bought ep II. If you look at the whole story line it is actually very disturbing. In ep I the Jedi actually tells Anakins mother "we are not here to free slaves!" Like what the hell is a Jedi supposed to be doing? The Jedi Knights actually deserved everything they got allowing evil to be accepted way before Palpatine took advantage of the situation. [/B][/QUOTE]
yeah, but slavery in that part of the galaxy was allowed by law. jedi are afterall supposed to uphold the law, and freeing slaves would be against the law there, hence why Qui-Gon had to free Anakin thru the race, and not just disappear him
[B]Good movie except for Anakin's turn to the dark-side. his motives for doing so were stupid and with no sense. [/B][/QUOTE]
I was going to mention that. That was truly the weakest part of the movie. It was just so easy for him to make the jump. Even though he was disgruntled over how he was treated he never really seems THAT upset about it. He even goes as far as blowing Palpatine's cover to the Jedi council and then for the stupidest reason just basically says, you know what screw it, I'm going with the bad guys anyway. I expectied it him to slowly be tempted into the darkside but that was just too easy.
At the beginning when Anikin had Dookoo, Palpatine told him to kill him because he was too dangerous, Anikin KNEW it was against the Jedi way, and felt remorse for doing that act.
Then he learns that the Jedi themselves do not hold to the ideals they claim to, by asking him to spy on Palpatine.
And then, the last blow, was when Palpatine was supposed to be arrested, but, "Because he is too dangerous" Windu was going to kill him.
It wasn't just that he was upset at how he was being treated, it was that his faith in the Jedi order was crushed, the only person that really stayed the same was Palpatine, who had always treated Anikin kindly, even after Anikin turned him in. Once he gave over to the dark side, it totally consumed him.
And yes, Padme was a big concern as well, but, as you'll note, it was a secondary concern, as he DID turn Palpatine in, even though he assumed he would be kept alive.
It wasn't so much as being drawn to the dark side, as being totally disallusioned to the light side.
[B]I think you guys missed some major points:
At the beginning when Anikin had Dookoo, Palpatine told him to kill him because he was too dangerous, Anikin KNEW it was against the Jedi way, and felt remorse for doing that act.
Then he learns that the Jedi themselves do not hold to the ideals they claim to, by asking him to spy on Palpatine.
And then, the last blow, was when Palpatine was supposed to be arrested, but, "Because he is too dangerous" Windu was going to kill him.
It wasn't just that he was upset at how he was being treated, it was that his faith in the Jedi order was crushed, the only person that really stayed the same was Palpatine, who had always treated Anikin kindly, even after Anikin turned him in. Once he gave over to the dark side, it totally consumed him.
And yes, Padme was a big concern as well, but, as you'll note, it was a secondary concern, as he DID turn Palpatine in, even though he assumed he would be kept alive.
It wasn't so much as being drawn to the dark side, as being totally disallusioned to the light side. [/B][/QUOTE]
I understand those points which is why I mention he was pretty pissed about his treatment. While that was shattering his faith, it still seemed like he still appeared sane enough to not have been so easily consumed so violently and suddenly the way he was. At the very least it was just too early. The jump from loosing his faith in the Jedi to becoming a complete monster, particularly when killing the younglins just felt too sudden and unnatural.
[B]I understand those points which is why I mention he was pretty pissed about his treatment. While that was shattering his faith, it still seemed like he still appeared sane enough to not have been so easily consumed so violently and suddenly the way he was. At the very least it was just too early. The jump from loosing his faith in the Jedi to becoming a complete monster, particularly when killing the younglins just felt too sudden and unnatural. [/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly the point... there may've been enough reasons for him to turn, but the acting was probably that bad so we didn't feel like he actually cared so much about it.
the Jedi will take over the republic, Palp's story about Plaugis, when Anakin finds out Palp is the Sith lord, and ESPECIALLY the love for Padme - he seems very apathetic to all these points therefore it wasn't convincing.
if the emotions acting were much better then so would've the plot and the whole turning thing.
I really didn't feel that Padme and Anakin loved each other it felt like they're reading a dialogue from a backcamera in a very unproffesional way.
Or something.
[B]Or something. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree completely:p
[B]Pardon me if this has already been mentioned, but I feel that the lack of proper displayed motivation in mr. skywalker is simply due to a lack of proper development of Palpatine and his relationship with Ani. It was very clear to me that in the last movie, he had gained a very large amount of trust in him and his ways (which directly lead into Episode III). With all sorts of conflicting information floating around, Anakin ends up turning to the one person he feels he can truly trust for information, and gets mislead into believing he is being truly betrayed by his friends, and that they are indeed just plain using him for his abilities as well as holding him back out of pure spite. And with everything going on, Palpatine is one of the few truly static, predictable figures, a sort of "voice of reason" amongst chaos (or at least that's how he makes himself out to be). Because of this, because of the fact that he's consistently proven right regardless of the fact that he is causing much of the stuff to actually happen (indirectly or otherwise) is beside the fact. The important part is that he told Anakin the truth when it was needed most, and the trust forming between them was simply not elaborated on enough to make a strong enough impact. It just sort of happened.
Or something. [/B][/QUOTE]One of the themes that they really missed out on was the father-son relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin, and Palpatine and Anakin. They could've cut out that 60% of Episode II that didn't advance the plot at all to make room for it. :)
Personally, I think that Anakin's fall made perfect sense, although the movie didn't do a very good job of getting the message across.
[B]Personally, I think that Anakin's fall made perfect sense, although the movie didn't do a very good job of getting the message across. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's sort of what I was getting at, but in a very convoluted way.
the "i'm standing on my balcony innocently combing my hair while we tell each other how much we love the other" scene :indysick:
[B]worse scene:
the "i'm standing on my balcony innocently combing my hair while we tell each other how much we love the other" scene :indysick: [/B][/QUOTE]
Definately!
:/
George will leave that scene in Ep III, but yank the ones about the Jedi Fighter Hyper Rings in orbit around Coruscant in Ep II...
:rolleyes:
Although not sold too well with the actor, those tough choices in life that are made with quick passionate emotions are rarely good ones.
His fall is innevitable due to dissolutionment and confusion about the differences between Sith and Jedi.
It comes down to "absolute power corrupts absolutely".
;)
Maybe with some of Anakins jump might be more belivable. I can accept turning on Mace at that critical moment (barely) but going off to kill younglings. No way. George should have thrown in a couple shots in ep II or ep II of some memory of the other younglings treating Anakin like dirt or something. Anakin is soooo concerned about his kid and yet goes off to kill other kids with impunity. I can't make the leap. I need more justification.
I loved the part where Palpatines' old master is Anakin father (via Meticlorine manipulation). Now we need to redo episode five and six. Darth also tell Threepio "I am your father." Threepio replies, "Oh my." In epVI the Emperor bust out with the fact that is sort of like Darth Vader's older brother and therefore Luke's Uncle. Good Han only a second cousin or Leia couldn't marry him. :p
PSII verison game.
Anakin fights palpatine & loses Obi wan is forced to retreat.
The Emperor revives him as Darth Vader & tells him that Obi Wan abandoned him & the jedi have betrayed him.
Along with that his wife is dead...
Memorable scenes: Padme looking out over the coruscant sunset, right before Anakin's betrayal. The last sunset of the Old Republic. Then there's Yoda waltzing into the senate chamber and casually force-pushing the guards out of the way. That one had the audience in stitches.
I gotta say I don't ever want to play cards with Palpatine, that man's one HELL of a gambler. If he's miscalculated with Anakin, I'm positive Mace would have kicked his butt from here to Tatooine. No contingency plans, no last-minute escapes. Also telling Vader the truth about Padme's death was another dangerous risk. Vader might have turned on the Emperor right there, enraged that he'd betrayed his friends for nothing. An easy half-truth "Obi-wan killed her" would have been safer.
The one major dissapointment here was Padme. I know she can't very well be on a battlefield kicking ass and all with kids on the way, but come on. Apart from her one memorable line "So this is how liberty dies. In thunderous applause", she didn't do much of anything. It would have been nice if she came close to speaking out against the emperor, but her advisors remind her that Naboo would end up under blockade all over again, and she reluctantly assents. She lost the will to live and left her children behind? What an ignoble way to die.
Wow this turned in to a lengthier rant than I thought.
[quote]101 INT. CORUSCANT-SENATE OFFICE BUILDING-MAIN HALLWAY-DAY
They enter the main hallway of the Senate Office Building. They pass SEVERAL SENATORS, including REPRESENTATIVE JAR JAR BINKS from Naboo.
JAR JAR: Helloo Annie. Good en to see yousa . . .
The Gungan waves to Anakin.
ANAKIN: Hi, Jar Jar.
JAR JAR: Oopsin da Chancellor!! So sorry, Your Highness, sir.
Anakin turns back to the Chancellor.
PALPATINE: There are rumors in the Senate about Master Kenobi. Many believe he is not fit for this assignment.
ANAKIN: Not fit? Why would anyone think that?
PALPATINE: They say his mind has become fogged by the influence of a certain female Senator.
ANAKIN: That's ridiculous. Who?!?
PALPATINE: (slyly) No one knows who she is ... only that she is a Senator.
ANAKIN: That's impossible. I would know.
PALPATINE: Sometimes the closest are the ones who cannot see.
ANAKIN becomes worried.
PALPATINE: (continuing) Idle Senate gossip is rarely true and never accurate. I'm sure your Master will do fine. [/quote]
Ah, that old bastard. Helps put Anakin's rank paranoia when he asks PadmŽ if Obi-Wan dropped by earlier in context, though.
[B]Anakin may have [i]thought[/i] Obi-Wan was having an affair with his wife, but we know that's wrong. Witness this cut scene (complete with Jar-Jar cameo).
Ah, that old bastard. Helps put Anakin's rank paranoia when he asks PadmŽ if Obi-Wan dropped by earlier in context, though. [/B][/QUOTE]
I finally saw it, I was waiting for it to come to our local theatre, which was the same theatre that i saw Star Wars in in 1977.
overall i liked it, the pacing sucked, it felt like lucas just kept remembering things he had to fit in, and it made the film very choppy,
I didn't like Darth Vader's dance of woe at the news of padme's death, ugh, that was awful awful awful.
The special, special, special, special, special edition.
Artoo takes over the galaxy and becomes Emporer.
[B]The ultimate solution
The special, special, special, special, special edition.
Artoo takes over the galaxy and becomes Emporer. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's Episode 9! Who told?
Bob.
On your front doorstep, he's Matt.
*ducks*