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Watching TNG, got some Q's...
Vorlon Ambassador Kosh
Vorlonforce Officer
in Zocalo v2.0
Ok, so a few months back I reported that I wanted to watch through the ST I haven't seen (TOS, TNG, DS9, movies) and that's what I've been doing whenever I get the chance.
Atm, I've seen movies I-VI and TNG eps to season 3, ep 10 (The Defector, man what an episode). Oh yeah, skipped TOS, will take too long if I don't.
Now watching several eps a day, sometimes when you're dozing off late at night, leads to the problem of not soaking up everything said and done on the show so here it comes for the ST-gurus here :D
Note: Some things may be very obvious but I'm good at missing obvious things :P
1) Ok, the bloody Neutral Zone, is it allowed to cross over or not, and where is it located (between which races' space)? Sometimes it feels they can cross it but not go into the neighbouring race's space, and sometimes it feels like that's a violation of the non-agression treaty between the Feds and the Roms.
2) Which are the common ship classes of the Romulans and Klingons (like the Warbird, the Bird Of Prey etc.)?
3) Who developed the cloaking devices first and how did the other race get it (Romulans-Klingons)?
That's it for now, I'm sure I'll be back later when I've watched through another season or so, appreciate all speculations, facts etc :)
Atm, I've seen movies I-VI and TNG eps to season 3, ep 10 (The Defector, man what an episode). Oh yeah, skipped TOS, will take too long if I don't.
Now watching several eps a day, sometimes when you're dozing off late at night, leads to the problem of not soaking up everything said and done on the show so here it comes for the ST-gurus here :D
Note: Some things may be very obvious but I'm good at missing obvious things :P
1) Ok, the bloody Neutral Zone, is it allowed to cross over or not, and where is it located (between which races' space)? Sometimes it feels they can cross it but not go into the neighbouring race's space, and sometimes it feels like that's a violation of the non-agression treaty between the Feds and the Roms.
2) Which are the common ship classes of the Romulans and Klingons (like the Warbird, the Bird Of Prey etc.)?
3) Who developed the cloaking devices first and how did the other race get it (Romulans-Klingons)?
That's it for now, I'm sure I'll be back later when I've watched through another season or so, appreciate all speculations, facts etc :)
Comments
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh [/i]
[B]1) Ok, the bloody Neutral Zone, is it allowed to cross over or not, and where is it located (between which races' space)? Sometimes it feels they can cross it but not go into the neighbouring race's space, and sometimes it feels like that's a violation of the non-agression treaty between the Feds and the Roms.[/b][/quote]
Yes and no. Civilian can cross. Military isn't supposed to unless authorized by both sides. Doesn't mean they don't.
There are two neutral zones: The Romulan Neutral Zone and the Klingon Neutral Zone. Both of these are between Federation space and the respective enemies.
[quote][b]
2) Which are the common ship classes of the Romulans and Klingons (like the Warbird, the Bird Of Prey etc.)?[/b][/quote]
D'dardex (might have spelled that wrong, it means Executioner in Romulan) is the Romulan Warbird.
Klingon I can't recall their names, though the bird of prey is the K'Tinga I think. There are 2 ship types seen in TNG - the bird of prey and a larger, deadlier design. In DS9 there is also the flagship (also can't recall the name).
[quote][b]
3) Who developed the cloaking devices first and how did the other race get it (Romulans-Klingons)?[/b][/quote]
Romulans. Klingons aquired it in a TOS episode - go watch TOS if you want to see how.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Random Chaos [/i]
[B]
Romulans. Klingons aquired it in a TOS episode - go watch TOS if you want to see how. [/B][/QUOTE]
wow...I did not know that...Guess I missed that one!
And I thought this was a thread about Q... :(
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh [/i]
[B]
1) Ok, the bloody Neutral Zone, is it allowed to cross over or not, and where is it located (between which races' space)? Sometimes it feels they can cross it but not go into the neighbouring race's space, and sometimes it feels like that's a violation of the non-agression treaty between the Feds and the Roms.[/quote][/b]
Nothing to add to my esteemed colleague's answer, except that the Klingon Neutral Zone was dismantled after the peace treaty in Star Trek VI, so it isn't around in any of the later series (and isn't mentioned in TOS. It only came up in the movies.)
[quote][b]2) Which are the common ship classes of the Romulans and Klingons (like the Warbird, the Bird Of Prey etc.)?[/quote][/b]
In the TNG era, the Romulans only had one big ship, the [url=http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/mechanics/warbird-model.jpg]double-hulled, hook-nosed warbird[/url]. A couple of different shuttles and [url=http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/mechanics/romscout-screen.jpg]scouts[/url] appeared in TNG and DS9, but they didn't get a second large-scale ship design until the [url=http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/schematics/valdore-screen.jpg]new cruisers[/url] in the tenth movie, Nemesis, which are smaller, but faster than the TNG warbirds.
The Klingons had a bunch of ship designs (compared to the Romulans), ranging from the old [url=http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/d7ktinga1.htm]K'tinga Battlecruiser[/url] and [url=http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/bop1.htm]Bird of Prey[/url] to the newer [url=http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/mechanics/vorcha-model2.jpg]Vor'cha battlecruiser[/url] (which, as a point of interest, turned from silver to green when it was remade as a CGI model for DS9) and the flagship of the DS9 era, the [url=http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/mechanics/voodieh-beauty.jpg]Negh'var[/url] (which had a similar color-change).
[b][quote]3) Who developed the cloaking devices first and how did the other race get it (Romulans-Klingons)?[/b][/quote]
The Romulans invented the cloak sometime before their first appearance in the TOS episode "Balance of Terror" (don't ask how far before, because it's kind of controversial). The Klingons were first seen using it in Star Trek III, with no explanation (originally, the klingon captain had stolen a romulan ship when the script was first being written. The plot point was dropped, but the name, "bird of prey", and the cloaking device, remained).
However there is a bit of an out: In one TOS episode, "The [i]Enterprise[/i] Incident," the Romulans are shown using Klingon designs, possibly as part of some sort of alliance (actually because the model of the Romulan ship had been lost and they needed new special effects shots, so they used the klingon ship model and threw in a line saying that Romulans were using Klingon ships, reasons unknown). Generally accepted fanon holds that the Romulans and Klingons formed an alliance during the TOS era, and the Klingons gave some of their battlecruisers and advanced warp drive engines to the Romulans in exchange for the design of the cloaking device, but that was never explicitly stated in any episode.
By the way, I'm curious. When you watched the first Star Trek movie, did you see the original version, the extended version, or the director's cut?
If not, then it might have been mentioned in that TNG episode with the Federation phase-cloaking device or in one of the klingon high-council rebellion episodes, but I can't recall all that was said in them and I don't have them on tape.
Only movie I've ever seen where I felt insulted by every single member of the production.
Don't forget the Klingon K'Vort large Bird-of-Prey design and its smaller brother, the B'Rel. These have been theorized to be Romulan designs and are among the coolest looking Trek ships.
[B]Skip Nemesis. Just skip it entirely. Pretend it did not happen, it was pure drek.[/quote][/b]
I almost second this, but I have to say the space battle scenes did [i]look[/i] cool, even while sucking.
[quote][b]Only movie I've ever seen where I felt insulted by every single member of the production.[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't think the TNG actors or the set people insulted me, but I sure feel insulted by the writers and the director.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by David of Mac [/i]
[B]
The Romulans invented the cloak sometime before their first appearance in the TOS episode "Balance of Terror" (don't ask how far before, because it's kind of controversial). The Klingons were first seen using it in Star Trek III, with no explanation (originally, the klingon captain had stolen a romulan ship when the script was first being written. The plot point was dropped, but the name, "bird of prey", and the cloaking device, remained). [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, I'm pretty sure the Klingons had a cloaking device before ST III. If i remember correctly, we see the Klingon ships in the ST I opening decloaking. I would think that they might have had cloaking technology in the series too, though that's just a feeling, i can't point to a specific episode.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Random Chaos [/i]
[B]D'dardex (might have spelled that wrong, it means Executioner in Romulan) is the Romulan Warbird.[/B][/QUOTE]
D'deridex. I dont know if its an official name though..
Cheers for the answers, made some things clearer.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by David of Mac [/i]
[B]By the way, I'm curious. When you watched the first Star Trek movie, did you see the original version, the extended version, or the director's cut? [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, since I last saw it on TV approx 7 years ago I'm guessing it's the original version. Are there many differences?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh [/i]
[B]Cheers for the answers, made some things clearer.
Well, since I last saw it on TV approx 7 years ago I'm guessing it's the original version. Are there many differences? [/B][/QUOTE]
not necessarily. it could have been the "extended" version. (It's basically the original version with some additional footage, but bad quality. It was actually made to fit better into TV Timeslots back in the 80's).
The Director's Cut is a bit different, especially since it has updated effects. The whole V'Ger "spaceship" effects are updated, you see much more of it, and the new scenes have been polished and effects added so they work with the rest of the movie. (also, like in the SE of the Star Wars movies, they added more depths to existing scenes by adding CG-extensions.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by David of Mac [/i]
[B]
Nothing to add to my esteemed colleague's answer, except that the Klingon Neutral Zone was dismantled after the peace treaty in Star Trek VI, so it isn't around in any of the later series (and isn't mentioned in TOS. It only came up in the movies.)
[/B][/QUOTE]
The Klingon Neutral Zone was mentioned in at least one episode of TNG from the first season, "Heart of Glory".
Well, the original questions have been pretty much covered, at least I can't add anything but i do want to make a couple of quick comments
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RubberEagle [/i]
[B]Actually, I'm pretty sure the Klingons had a cloaking device before ST III. If i remember correctly, we see the Klingon ships in the ST I opening decloaking. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure they do not decloak at the beginning, unless it was added in the director's cut. I 've only seen it once.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AnlaShok [/i]
[B]Don't forget the Klingon K'Vort large Bird-of-Prey design and its smaller brother, the B'Rel. These have been theorized to be Romulan designs and are among the coolest looking Trek ships.[/B][/QUOTE]
Absolutely the coolest ships in trek, except maybe the E and Voyager.
Didn't much care for the series but thought the ship was pretty cool.
Hello Soton. You live where I live it seems (same city). <!-- purple -->
--RC
Don't forget the Klingon K'Vort large Bird-of-Prey design and its smaller brother, the B'Rel. These have been theorized to be Romulan designs and are among the coolest looking Trek ships. [/B][/QUOTE]
Watch the TNG episode: Yesterdays Enterprise for some Bird-of-Prey fight sequences.Thats the best TNG episode for me.
maxdamage.
"Eat any good <!-- green -->books lately?" :D
[B]Actually, I think he's right, the <!-- green -->Klingon ships DO decloak at the beginning of ST:III. [/B][/QUOTE]
RubberEagle was talking about Klingon ships decloaking at the beginning of TMP. Which they don't.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Akrovah [/i]
[B]
I'm pretty sure they do not decloak at the beginning, unless it was added in the director's cut. I 've only seen it once.[/B][/QUOTE]
Nope, they don't decloak even in the DC... funny, I had the full sequence in my head. though there isn't even anything remotely similar in this or any other movie...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Akrovah [/i]
[B]Absolutely the coolest ships in trek, except maybe the E and Voyager.
Didn't much care for the series but thought the ship was pretty cool. [/B][/QUOTE]
The Voyager? cool? Paleese! A pregnant Aardvark has more grace than the Voyager...
my favorite trek ship is definately the Defiant.
[URL=http://hem.bredband.net/fabnas/Pics/romulan-dderidex.jpg]D'Deridex[/URL]
[B]There is something about the Defiant I love. Its little, powerfull and nimble. Just the way a combat ship should be.
my favorite trek ship is definately the Defiant. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ah, How could I have forgoten the Defiant? It is probably the coolest trek ship overall, but I think it falls a little short on asthetic style.
And with Voyager, it has pretty much the same hull shape as the E, but I liked the folding engines. Very impractical and uterly useless in a real world setting, but neat to look at.
The Akira class is pretty mean looking too.
[URL]http://www.shiporama.org/akira.htm[/URL]
As it turns out, the design allows the ship to get around Roddenberry's ship design rules and have an unusual design. The specific rules it breaks are:
[i]"Thou shalt not have warp engines which lack line-of-sight to each other"[/i]
and
[i]"Thou shalt not have bussard collectors (aka, the red glowy things on the warp engines) that are more than 50% blocked by the saucer section."[/i]
This way, when the engines are down, the second rule is followed at the expense of the first, but when they're up, the reverse is true.
As for favorite ship.... the [i]Enterprise[/i] Refit, with the E-E as a close second.
Triple pod ships seem to be one of those grey areas of legitimate operation. People can get awya with saying they "Reduce load" by switching coils on and off, but it's just somewhat silly to think about it that way.
hmm, I LOVE the E-E and the Excellcior classes...