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Cloans...
Reading about the announcement, the one set for the National Academy of Sciences on Thursday. Likely 200 women be impregnated with cloned embryos, planned for November, likely on a boat in international waters…
Now that got me thinking, did be have any cloning? Not even the shadows or vorlons… Does JMS have an opinion on it?
Now that got me thinking, did be have any cloning? Not even the shadows or vorlons… Does JMS have an opinion on it?
Comments
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[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
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Yep, I don't think cloning was mentioned, but what the Vorlons did to teeps in Lyta's "[i] In Bed With Byron [/i]" -flashback had to have something to do with cloning.
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Life is full of surprises. The ones reserved for me usually come wearing brass knuckles.
[b][i]In Bed With Byron [/i][/b][/quote]
That sounds like the title of a cooking show.
[This message has been edited by David of Mac (edited 08-05-2001).]
[b]SPOILER WARNING, SEASON 5
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Yep, I don't think cloning was mentioned, but what the Vorlons did to teeps in Lyta's "[i] In Bed With Byron [/i]" -flashback had to have something to do with cloning.
[/b][/quote]
That wasn't cloning, it was genetic engineering, otherwise all Teeps would look alike. or have common genetic traits that would have been picked up, It would also make them succeptabel to a genetic plague.
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..And so it Begins
[b] succeptabel
[/b][/quote]
What the hell does that mean?
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"Are you a god fearing man, senator? It's such an strange phrase. I've always though of god as a teacher... as a bringer of light, wisdom and understanding. You see, i think what you really are afraid of is me. Me and my kind, the Brotherhood of Mutants. Oh, it's not so suprising really, mankind has always feared what it doesnt understand. Well, dont fear god senator, and certainly dont fear me... not anymore."
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[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Genetic engineering, cloning... whatever. In any case, we are talking about tampering with human genes and natural evolution. The step to cloning is not far.
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Life is full of surprises. The ones reserved for me usually come wearing brass knuckles.
If we also assume that the human race continues to stay alive and kicking for the next few billion years, wouldn't the whole cloning embargo stop mankind's natural evolution that has got us this far, and actually cause later offspring to degenerate due to that lack of fresh genetic material?
Maybe not exactly degenerate, but in any case stop the level of human evolution to the stage where it is now or at least slow it down dramatically?
--Assuming we don't start to grow extra limbs and brain mass artificially, of course.
Soon to be author of: [b][i]Why We Didn't Reach The Vorlons[/i][/b] [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
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Life is full of surprises. The ones reserved for me usually come wearing brass knuckles.
[b] What the hell does that mean?
[/b][/quote]
It means that people who live in glass houses shouldnt live with a Zarg....
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..And so it Begins
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possibly futile, but very human.
[b]I just thought of something: Let's say that cloning becomes a common practice, and in the future every born child has been pre-engineered from the currently existing genomes. (A BIG longshot, but still)
If we also assume that the human race continues to stay alive and kicking for the next few billion years, wouldn't the whole cloning embargo stop mankind's natural evolution that has got us this far, and actually cause later offspring to degenerate due to that lack of fresh genetic material?
Maybe not exactly degenerate, but in any case stop the level of human evolution to the stage where it is now or at least slow it down dramatically?
--Assuming we don't start to grow extra limbs and brain mass artificially, of course.
Soon to be author of: [b][i]Why We Didn't Reach The Vorlons[/i][/b] [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
[/B][/quote]
True. This is a very far shot (as you stated) but if it happened it would mean the death of the human race, but not in the way you describe. If we are all made from a selective pile of genes then we are all succeptable to the same stuff. All you need is one disease that would normally kill .000047 percent of the population (because of their genes) but now instead kills 47% (give or take depending on how big the drawing pool of genes is). What I think will happen to us (humans) is bleak. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img] I think we will finally cure everything that Mother Nature can throw at us, for a time. Then, through the years, our immune system weakens to the point where some highly contagious disease (think of the flu, only 4000% more contagious) will kill everyone. This is kind of like AIDS, only induced by ourselves.
EDIT: Spelling errors
[This message has been edited by rhett (edited 08-05-2001).]
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[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Never did. The people that did dolly the sheep NEVER called it cloning. All they did was take a fertilized embryo and inject new dna into it, the same as grafting an orange tree branch on to an apple tree. The ferilized ovum would have became a sheep anyway, what they did is alter it genetically to become similar to the original. Dolly IS NOT genetically identical to the original... Never was, never will be. Similar, yes, but no more so than a twin. They use this same tech to grow "human" shaped ears on mice (no joke). This COULD work, because mice and humans are almost biochemically identical. They use them in medical experiments not because they are cheap, but because they react to the same toxins and medicines as humans.
To clone, you have to duplicate the original cell, in a sense creating a new cell that retains the makeup of the original. Science can't even create an apple seed cell, much less build a living animal cell.
So the next time you hear that they "cloned" a sheep, tell them the truth. The press used the term "clone" because they know it is familiar to the public (and they arn't scientists), but it isn't cloning.
This US ban on human cloning, is taking about FUTURE techology, duplication of humans... BUT, it also sets ethical limits on injecting human dna into animal cells or ovum, (remember they injected sheep dna into a fertilized ovum to make Dolly). It is wrong to try to create a human / animal hybrid, and they dont want human ovum, with it's own unique DNA injected with someone elses! Imagine, Biggles as example before he(as a fertilized egg) split and started growing in to a man, gets injected with Homer DNA, so that you end up with a Biggles/Homer adult, closer to Homer than a Biggles. You have to sacrifice a fertilized human Ovum to do this, meaning that that unique person ain't gonna grow up, since you destroyed his DNA mapping and replaced it with a foreign map!
With real cloning, you simply make a copy that can grow and live. You don't need a fertilized ovum to "kick start" things.
example (no this isn't racist, just the only example I can think of):
If you took a white baby, and injected it with the DNA coding that made Martin Luther King a black man, you will end up with a black baby, but it isn't a clone of the great man. Normally, this baby would have grown up to be white. You see, you hijacked the DNA map.
It is like saying "I am going to cteate an apple! so get me an apple, and I will make an apple out of it."
This Dolly process requires a living fertilized egg. Hardly cloning, now is it?
Cloning is FAR outside human ability, and no we arn't anywhere close to it.
Genetic manipulation --> thats where we are at. That is amazing in itself, but it ain't cloning...
Research this, but go to a source other than the internet, which is full of incorrect info on the topic. Try "science" the official magazine of the american association for the advancement of science. You have to join to get it, though. Tough without the degree... This is where the story was originally posted in the first place, and no they didn't say cloning.
science lesson 2.
My reason telling you all this is that most B5 fans are really smart, and I want to help keep them that way. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by silencergroup (edited 08-06-2001).]
[b]Reading about the announcement, the one set for the National Academy of Sciences on Thursday. Likely 200 women be impregnated with cloned embryos, planned for November, likely on a boat in international waters…
[/b][/quote]
Like I said, those embryos would have had to be living human and fertilized that if left alone would grow up into people, but is now injected with someone elses dna. thats it. It aint cloning when you steal someone elses chance at growing up unaltered.
[b]What is really sick (and a bit off topic) is that chimpanzee and human is 99.999999% the same.[/b][/quote]
I'll bring your complaint up to God next time I see Him. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I mean think about it,pretty much much every single air breathing animal out there has lungs,heart,liver,brain,muscles,nervous system,stomach,kidneys,etc,that are built and work the same way ours do...
[b]silencer: They did clone a sheep. A clone is a copy of another animal. (I am not trying to insult you, in any way!) They extracted DNA of one sheep and placed it into a sheep egg. Hence a clone. Cloning isn't "growing" some one inside a tube. Artifical Uterus and creating DNA is much farther off then human cloning. WHat is really sick (and a bit off topic) is that chimpanzee and human is 99.999999% the same. I am just waiting for someone to try and cross breed.[/b][/quote]
1) Sorry, you are not quite right. You can't clone something when science has no idea how to. Officially Dolly was a product of "nuclear transfer", not cloning.
2) Chimps and humans are as far off biochemically as humans and frogs, and as we have just discussed, if you don't use biochemical compatible cells, it aint gonna happen. DNA doesn't really play into it, since it is the instruction set...
3)"Cloning isn't "growing" some one inside a tube." Ya, that's what I am saying. What they did was reimplant the embryo after they were done with the "tube" part of the experiment, so what you say confirms that dolly is not a clone.
Dolly would have been a sheep even without the genetic manipulations. All they are doing is changing the genetic "flavor" of the ungrown sheep to be similar to the original, but not a "copy", since dolly isn't a copy, or a clone, just a genetically forced close relative. Cloning is a popular urban myth, and unless you understand the science, which most don't, they just use the term clone. Just like saying imac's are "fembots"... it aint the right term...
I compliment your ideas, and appreciate your feedback though! But really, guys, do the research if your wondering, but there are no clones at all, and won't be until they can leave out the fertilized egg.
Maybe the Vorlons could do it, but in B5 I believe they just manipulated the genome by adding to human dna the coding that made telepaths.
My 2 cents.
[This message has been edited by silencergroup (edited 08-07-2001).]
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[b]Commander[/b] socrates
flightleader, [i]Erinyes[/i]
The Gray Hand of Fate
AnlaShok Blackops
"Do [b]NOT[/b] interfere."
During the discussion in the episode, she talked about two other tags that could possibly be used in a DNA structure but have never been found to be present in any creature on earth.
Is this true, or based on a possibility in the very least?
Just curious... The thought of someone messing around with unknowns like that is a tad spooky...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Anyway, back to the point of your post...
The scary thing is that corporations could easily mess around with things they don't know about, then release something into the world (either purposefully or by accident), and we wouldn't know anything about it until things started going wrong. Like people dying.
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[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
"
I'm not a genetics expert in any way, but could you clarify what you mean by biochemical similarity?
It seems to me that a human/chimp cross could be as likely as the common horse/donkey cross -resulting in a mule.
Marc
[quote]I'll bring your complaint up to GOd next time I see HIm.[/quote]
Being the same isn't the problem, the cross breeding is! It is amazing how our genetics is so similar with every other living thing. At the cellular level we all do the same thing. (Just like superfly said! I need to learn to read everything!)
[quote]2) Chimps and humans are as far off...[/quote]
[megabite's voice] Whatever are you talking about?[/megabite's voice] The more similar DNA is, the more proteins are the same. (FYI, for those who don't know, DNA is just the blueprint for making protein.) Besides, what do you think a mule is?
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possibly futile, but very human.
Star Wars Ep II:Attack of the Clones.
[img]http://www.darkhorizons.com/news10/sw2l.jpg[/img]
[This message has been edited by In Between (edited 08-07-2001).]
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[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras