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Open Cooperation between mods?
Sanfam
I like clocks.
Biggles and I have casually discussed this in the past, but now I'm starting to see a genuine motivation for it. We've observed that many mods have had to go through a long and risky period of early development where they have to build create their own models, maps, etc. Basically re-create the ships and other models native to the B5 universe for themselves. Considering the sheer number of mods here, this results in a whole lot of delays and potential problems.
Now consider this. What if existing mods could be convinced to open their models to public use in such a way that credit problems could be avoided while still allowing for derivitive works to exist? It sounds almost like a GNU for models, and in my opinion, it would not be a difficult task to achieve.
I'm seriously wondering what you guys would think about this, and what kind of infrastructure would be needed to support the system. (We'd probably need jambo :D) I was thinking that we could integrate this system with the wiki, so that models could be submitted and maintained with ease (perhaps with some code hacks to prevent anyone but the author or mod team from writing to it).
Think about it. If you wanted to create a mod, you could do it with absolute ease! Just downoad the models from the site and revise them for your specific use (Crediting the original author(s), of course).
Comments?
Now consider this. What if existing mods could be convinced to open their models to public use in such a way that credit problems could be avoided while still allowing for derivitive works to exist? It sounds almost like a GNU for models, and in my opinion, it would not be a difficult task to achieve.
I'm seriously wondering what you guys would think about this, and what kind of infrastructure would be needed to support the system. (We'd probably need jambo :D) I was thinking that we could integrate this system with the wiki, so that models could be submitted and maintained with ease (perhaps with some code hacks to prevent anyone but the author or mod team from writing to it).
Think about it. If you wanted to create a mod, you could do it with absolute ease! Just downoad the models from the site and revise them for your specific use (Crediting the original author(s), of course).
Comments?
Comments
"that place is this place"
[url]http://forums.firstones.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6344[/url]
Some mod teams were asked, if they are interested and there was some postive feedback but the project never was realized.
I think, it is a good idea.
Falcon
I wanted to start something similar a year or two ago, but due to real life issues it never left the planning stages. (that's what Falcon was mentioning above)
The sharing could even go as far as coordinated storylines, witnessing events from Mod A in mod B, having "guest appearances" of characters or ships, weaving one big tapestry instead of many small ones...
As for models and textures, the great thing is that we have so many different games that are/can be modded. You have 3d strategy games like homeworld of ST: Armada, you have Space-Sims ranging from "older games" like Freespace to current generation games. With a shared model database with different LODs the models that are used for Strategy as detailed levels could be used as medium LODs in FS and as low LODs in current generations etc..
Really the only thing that can't be shared is programmed code.
If you want (I don't know how many ideas you allready have for this "B5 Mod Central") I could write the stuff we came up with together and post it... I don't think anyone who was involved back then would object...
Now for making each ship "compatible" for each kind of mod, that will take alot of cordinating. For example X-wing Alliance, I have to stick to the .dxf format due to using Acad2k(only good modeling app I got that I can work with), and the only availible utilities that were created for the game. I can export to .3ds, some utilites were made, but even then the models do have their limitations and below expectations that other games would require.
My models right now are below my newfound expectations, so I really couldn't release much unless someone really wanted some of my lower quality models.
As long as the moder said they were using my models or modified one of mine, I wouldn't mind as long as somewhere in a txt or website it said it was being used as such(an agreement I made with people when I first started my project when they submitted a model to me).
It's a very good Idea, just alot of resources and time will be required to start something like this up.
There should be some sort of submiting standard too for textures and mesh info that can be easy to convert from.
Back when we were working on this in the german forum, we imagined it that way that each mod-team still had one or two guys who were responsible for converting the models and textures in the required format for the game. (Using programs like Deep Exploration you can convert from and topretty much every 3d-format, so the original format of the model wouldn't be that important. Of course redoing UVW mapping would sometimes be necessary... But if the conversions would be put online too, with time the workload would shrink for every team)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by croxis [/i]
[B]There should be some sort of submiting standard too for textures and mesh info that can be easy to convert from. [/B][/QUOTE]
Basically the best would be a zip for the model, a zip for the texture, a small 5 view of the model, and small samples of the textures, in jpg...
[B]The reason why the filesize is so large is because dxf format is very, very large. Also the image format of the textures is also important. Bitmaps are going ot be a bit larger than jepgs.
There should be some sort of submiting standard too for textures and mesh info that can be easy to convert from. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, we would have to convince devs of the apps we mod to use standard formats that are easy to convert to :)
Anyway. A couple things that need to be considered when looking into doing this:
- Most games need fairly low-poly objects.
- Most modelers like high-poly stuff for renders
- A lot of games need more then 1 poly level mesh depending on distance.
- Some games can accept higher detail textures then others.
It would be nice to design every mesh such that they have 4 poly levels: High, Medium, Low, and Minimal (for really far views) with textures generally near max for all (textures are easy to reduce in complexity unlike models). And make sure that we release this stuff for the modeler community in addition to the mod community! ;) purple
Just my 2 cents :)
--RC
[B]
- Most games need fairly low-poly objects.
- Most modelers like high-poly stuff for renders
[/B][/QUOTE]
That really depends on the definition of what's low-poly and what's high-poly for a game..
I've been able to run 4000 poly models (fighters!) in Starlancer 2-3 years ago (and with multiple ships in that range, not just one, on screen), and FreeLancer handles Fighters up to 10.000 polys well... (all depending on your hardware of course)
those are pretty high, if you consider that the StarLancer ships had about 500 polys...
I'm thinking that maybe we could have five or six different variations on poly count to download, starting off at Render-Quality LOD and reducing all the way to 10-100 poly temp/Low LOD models.
As for file formats, if we could perhaps figure out a way to manage multiple basic formats of the different LODs, I think we'd be set.
Also, as mentioned above, perhaps if we could knock down some sort of system with which we could make mod timelines and plots consistent. The wiki may be most useful for this, as mods could simply update a timeline page with their own information and verify it against the canon B5 history.
;)
[B]So, are we there yet? :D [/B][/QUOTE]
:angryv: We have always been there :angryv:
when can also start and share the sound effects.. if blacksheep don't mind because he worked a very long time on all the effects. don't know if he want to share them.
btw whats about a list with all the voiceactors for cooperation?
[B]Well, I've been thinking of organizing a proper discussion, but it's really hard to contact some of the mod folks. I mean, incredibly hard. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
What about an open letter to check out what they are thinking about the whole idea?
oh and perhaps it should be not wrong to have an extra or private fòrum for it were the dev's from the different mod teams can discuss the whole thing??
at least i can give the guy's from TBP and ifh a hint to this project. i'm in close contact to ifh and still a member of TBP with Access to their private forum so i can ask there what they are thinking about all this.... so if you have something i can post there sanfam.. please let me know:)
but a open letter would be better i think.
so when can we start?;)
edit: in my opinion it would be much better when we have a page or central forum and not just talking about this and then nothing happend. when we have a page for this all we need is the "yes we do it" from the other teams ;)
we could also start an open discussion about it in irc and invite the folks from the mod teams
However, I've moved this thread there, anyway, so you probably don't need that link.
B5 Warlock(about 9250 faces)
EA Shuttle (about 7789 faces)
Narn Var'Nic ship ( 4528 faces)
EA Explorer Cortez(14800 faces and texs made by me) also a
B5 Heavy Balistic missile at 504 faces.
My warlock uses custom texs and most of them are from person X who I have permission to use them as it comes from his Warlock model for use in HW2.My Var'Nic texs have to be re-done by me but they are on hold for the moment.
maxdamage.