Randy Said:
____________________________
You may be right. But without someone inside, or without someone, or people, dedicating themselves to some detective
work, it's impossible to say. I certainly don't know.
I've fantasized about telling someone high up at the new Sierra that they could save face, make themselves heroes, and
make themselves some money by dusting off the IP and finishing it up, now that those with misinformed objections are
gone. But I always end up by realizing that most likely no one there gives a rat's ass.
On the other, other hand, I could be too cynical to see the situation clearly.
___________________________
OK - Question: - Would WB even *LET* them do this? - Wouldn't they have to convince the WB Weasles that:
a) They were sorry about f*cking up last time.
b) They promise to finish it this time.
c) They can find some talent that could finish it off.
Of these - I see c) as being the biggest stumbling block. OTOH if they look at their IP as being a sunk cost and don't saddle the new game with it - it might actually have a chance of being made and making a profit (a real profit, not an accounting profit - which it could *never* make)(kinda like JMS getting a % of net profit from b5 - something - even though B5 has made money hand over fist for WB - that will never happen.)
[quote]Originally posted by JackN:
[b]Now... Don't take the above the wrong way either! I'm not saying I have the "Demo", just that I know what would happen.
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
JackN HAS THE DEMO!!!!!!!!!
Man your starfuries - i think its time for some hit and run [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
---
Seriously though, I dont think that now is the time to try and get hold of the IP. Wait a while then get in touch with Sierra, tell them that 2/2.5 years after the project was cancelled we STILL have a large fan base waiting for, and working towards the relase of the game.
They may realise that the game may make money, and that it wont cost TOO much to release the game as its alreay about 70% complete. You can live in hope.
My understanding is that WB has discontinued licensing any B5 products.
[i]Maybe [/i] they will begin licensing again [i]if[/i] LOTR does well, turns into a series, and the series does well.
Would WB ever let Sierra do anything with a B5 license again?
LMAOROF!
(Clears throat) Oh - excuse me.
I suppose it's not impossible if someone where to make the case that all of the screw-ups are gone and this someone was trying to give them a bunch of money and this someone already had distribution set up and if WB happened to feel like it at the time.
Not to be a naysayer, but you should know what you’re talking about.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 07-26-2001).]
I can promise you that they will NEVER get the babylon 5 license again, which means they will never be able to do anything with the game. If they gave it to someone else, it would be bad as a competitor would be making money.
Edit: Hah! I must have typed this right when Randy pressed "Submit Now" [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Sanfam (edited 07-26-2001).]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
And Jack, you have first hand knowledge of my ambitions. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[quote]Originally posted by Fubar:
[b] JackN HAS THE DEMO!!!!!!!!!
Man your starfuries - i think its time for some hit and run [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
---
Seriously though, I dont think that now is the time to try and get hold of the IP. Wait a while then get in touch with Sierra, tell them that 2/2.5 years after the project was cancelled we STILL have a large fan base waiting for, and working towards the relase of the game.
They may realise that the game may make money, and that it wont cost TOO much to release the game as its alreay about 70% complete. You can live in hope.[/b][/quote]
But what if it's not a diversion?
/me designs a plan to search the planet for the demo
Ok, I'll take this room, everyone else, take a few laps around the planet [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I knew one of the devs was smart enough to grab a copy before leaving Sierra [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img] Way to go Jack!!! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/tongue.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
He didn't say that. Don't put words in his mouth. Especially about something like that.
Jack: Check your ICQ history. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[quote]Originally posted by Randy:
[b]On the other, other hand, I could be too cynical to see the situation clearly. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/tongue.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Or you could be far enough on the inside during the process to see the situation realistically. Plus, there comes a time where insisting "we can do it, if we just tried one more time" crosses the line dividing obsession and something that could frighten me...and not in a good way [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
I try to keep my mind open to all possibilities, John. I like to think that nothing is impossible. Things have changed a lot at Sierra - so who knows? With enough money and with a legitimate, good business practices approach, WB probably would bend. I know that JMS would like for the game to be completed because of final footage we shot. And with world-wide distribution, and marketing to non-core gamers, the project may well still be a profitable one. All I know is that I personally need to move on as regards trying to get the game finished.
But if, by some means I don't see, the project is reborn, and if it is the same game that we designed, then of course I would be interested in helping with the process of finishing it.
IMHO:
1. form a legitimate business
2. get an agreement from Sierra that okays the use of any “recoverable IP”
3. seek funding, and secure distribution – which may be the same thing
4. show WB the money and the business plan, including a distribution deal
5. finish the game
In that order. If all of that could be achieved – quickly – maybe it’s still possible. But I see no other way than this difficult, step-by-step process.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
I thought there were 3 steps... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
At the time, 1 was not an issue, and 2 was part of 4, right?
It still is possible, but it's just so damn hard to do this stuff now. The more time that passes, the harder it gets, too. Who knows, by next year, we could have ten or twenty steps [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Yeah I know, just a general warning to all. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
1. WB won't license B5 to anyone now. The did last minute calls to those that had licenses and informed them they wouldn't be renewing their licenses. When they shut off profitable licenses, why would anyone think they would issue a new one?
2. Sierra won't release the IP. Although anything is possible, to get this done you would need to "pry their cold dead fingers off it".
3. Even if someone got #1 and #2 along with distribution and funding, without the original dev team (most, if not all, have moved on) It would take a great deal of time to bring others up to speed on what they have done without starting from scratch. I find this to be a near impossibility. As John Walker once said. "I would love to see someone try to figure out the AI code"
Without the original DEV team, the IP would be next to useless. The major exceptions would be the models and the film footage. If the film footage could be used in a new game at all without completely understanding the story line from the start.
------------------
Dedicated to all the people who predicted that the Babylon Project would fail in its mission. Faith Manages.
G'Quon wrote, 'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'
[This message has been edited by Havok (edited 08-01-2001).]
The video sequences are meaningless without the story elements that are embedded in the missions and come to the player by way of email, communiqué, news items, and briefings. In other words, without the rest of the game, the video is worthless, except for archival purposes.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 08-01-2001).]
------------------
The best Hope is Future and the future made us stronger.
The fight for the game is now full with heavy flames.
So fängt es also an...
BoardMember at [url="http://www.paraworlds.com"]http://www.paraworlds.com[/url]
Hey, don't look down on Warner Brothers. They seem to have treated the B5 license very well.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Time for what?
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Not time for that. Yet.
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[quote]Originally posted by samuelk:
[b]Judging by the amount of time you guys have labored over this monumental task, I'm surprised there aren't 12 steps.
Comments
____________________________
You may be right. But without someone inside, or without someone, or people, dedicating themselves to some detective
work, it's impossible to say. I certainly don't know.
I've fantasized about telling someone high up at the new Sierra that they could save face, make themselves heroes, and
make themselves some money by dusting off the IP and finishing it up, now that those with misinformed objections are
gone. But I always end up by realizing that most likely no one there gives a rat's ass.
On the other, other hand, I could be too cynical to see the situation clearly.
___________________________
OK - Question: - Would WB even *LET* them do this? - Wouldn't they have to convince the WB Weasles that:
a) They were sorry about f*cking up last time.
b) They promise to finish it this time.
c) They can find some talent that could finish it off.
Of these - I see c) as being the biggest stumbling block. OTOH if they look at their IP as being a sunk cost and don't saddle the new game with it - it might actually have a chance of being made and making a profit (a real profit, not an accounting profit - which it could *never* make)(kinda like JMS getting a % of net profit from b5 - something - even though B5 has made money hand over fist for WB - that will never happen.)
[b]Now... Don't take the above the wrong way either! I'm not saying I have the "Demo", just that I know what would happen.
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
JackN HAS THE DEMO!!!!!!!!!
Man your starfuries - i think its time for some hit and run [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
---
Seriously though, I dont think that now is the time to try and get hold of the IP. Wait a while then get in touch with Sierra, tell them that 2/2.5 years after the project was cancelled we STILL have a large fan base waiting for, and working towards the relase of the game.
They may realise that the game may make money, and that it wont cost TOO much to release the game as its alreay about 70% complete. You can live in hope.
[i]Maybe [/i] they will begin licensing again [i]if[/i] LOTR does well, turns into a series, and the series does well.
Would WB ever let Sierra do anything with a B5 license again?
LMAOROF!
(Clears throat) Oh - excuse me.
I suppose it's not impossible if someone where to make the case that all of the screw-ups are gone and this someone was trying to give them a bunch of money and this someone already had distribution set up and if WB happened to feel like it at the time.
Not to be a naysayer, but you should know what you’re talking about.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 07-26-2001).]
Edit: Hah! I must have typed this right when Randy pressed "Submit Now" [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Sanfam (edited 07-26-2001).]
Hmmmphhh!
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
As for a Rat's Ass... I prefer to throw the prverbial "Vorlon's Ass" coments around when I'm animated for some reason...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b] JackN HAS THE DEMO!!!!!!!!!
Man your starfuries - i think its time for some hit and run [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
---
Seriously though, I dont think that now is the time to try and get hold of the IP. Wait a while then get in touch with Sierra, tell them that 2/2.5 years after the project was cancelled we STILL have a large fan base waiting for, and working towards the relase of the game.
They may realise that the game may make money, and that it wont cost TOO much to release the game as its alreay about 70% complete. You can live in hope.[/b][/quote]
Tell me where it is so I cna play with it...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
But what if it's not a diversion?
/me designs a plan to search the planet for the demo
Ok, I'll take this room, everyone else, take a few laps around the planet [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Jack: Check your ICQ history. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b]On the other, other hand, I could be too cynical to see the situation clearly. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/tongue.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Or you could be far enough on the inside during the process to see the situation realistically. Plus, there comes a time where insisting "we can do it, if we just tried one more time" crosses the line dividing obsession and something that could frighten me...and not in a good way [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
But if, by some means I don't see, the project is reborn, and if it is the same game that we designed, then of course I would be interested in helping with the process of finishing it.
IMHO:
1. form a legitimate business
2. get an agreement from Sierra that okays the use of any “recoverable IP”
3. seek funding, and secure distribution – which may be the same thing
4. show WB the money and the business plan, including a distribution deal
5. finish the game
In that order. If all of that could be achieved – quickly – maybe it’s still possible. But I see no other way than this difficult, step-by-step process.
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
This is now.
It still is possible, but it's just so damn hard to do this stuff now. The more time that passes, the harder it gets, too. Who knows, by next year, we could have ten or twenty steps [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
[b]He didn't say that. Don't put words in his mouth. Especially about something like that.[/b][/quote]
it was a joke Biggles [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/tongue.gif[/img]
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
(little alcoholic joke there)
1. WB won't license B5 to anyone now. The did last minute calls to those that had licenses and informed them they wouldn't be renewing their licenses. When they shut off profitable licenses, why would anyone think they would issue a new one?
2. Sierra won't release the IP. Although anything is possible, to get this done you would need to "pry their cold dead fingers off it".
3. Even if someone got #1 and #2 along with distribution and funding, without the original dev team (most, if not all, have moved on) It would take a great deal of time to bring others up to speed on what they have done without starting from scratch. I find this to be a near impossibility. As John Walker once said. "I would love to see someone try to figure out the AI code"
Without the original DEV team, the IP would be next to useless. The major exceptions would be the models and the film footage. If the film footage could be used in a new game at all without completely understanding the story line from the start.
------------------
Dedicated to all the people who predicted that the Babylon Project would fail in its mission. Faith Manages.
G'Quon wrote, 'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'
[This message has been edited by Havok (edited 08-01-2001).]
The video sequences are meaningless without the story elements that are embedded in the missions and come to the player by way of email, communiqué, news items, and briefings. In other words, without the rest of the game, the video is worthless, except for archival purposes.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 08-01-2001).]
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]
cu
------------------
The best Hope is Future and the future made us stronger.
The fight for the game is now full with heavy flames.
So fängt es also an...
BoardMember at [url="http://www.paraworlds.com"]http://www.paraworlds.com[/url]
1) Seek and Destroy Sierra
2) Seek and Destroy WB
3) "Salvage" IP and B5 Licence
Once those steps have been completed, we are free to produce as many B5 games as we want
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
------------------
[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b]Judging by the amount of time you guys have labored over this monumental task, I'm surprised there aren't 12 steps.
(little alcoholic joke there)[/b][/quote]
I don't get it.