[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by C_Mon [/i]
[B]And I'm god damn sick of everyone yelling at each other, can't we all just live with what we got and care less what our neighbours have. [/B][/QUOTE]
I am an American. I do not even own a car. I don't even know how to drive. I use public transportation for everything. I'm 21 years old and I am proud that we have the choices we can make. The West is wasteful. Arrogance from Europe thinking everything is America's fault in wasting material is pathetic.
You know what? One day, I am going to go out and purchase a 1976 Cadillac Fleedwood Brougham 500.
Within its total 233" length, you could probably fit a pair of Hondas. In its trunk, Geo Metro. Under the hood is the largest production engine made: a 500ci V8 pumping out just a bit more than enough power to get this yacht--no, god damned cruise ship of a car moving. All this to carry four people.
And if I ever do own one? I'd make it clear that my car consumes a gallon of gas every four and a half miles (eight highway).
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Aetius [/i]
[B]I am an American. I do not even own a car. I don't even know how to drive. I use public transportation for everything. I'm 21 years old and I am proud that we have the choices we can make. The West is wasteful. Arrogance from Europe thinking everything is America's fault in wasting material is pathetic. [/B][/QUOTE]
My bull Shit metre went off.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
The same way the board's one does every time you make a post? ;)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Aetius [/i]
[B]Arrogance from Europe thinking everything is America's fault in wasting material is pathetic. [/B][/QUOTE]
As you see here, it's not just europeans who are good at ignorant bashing of the US.
And hell, I see plenty of trucks and large-consumption cars here in Mexico, noone has mentioned that. What about Canada?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]The same way the board's one does every time you make a post? ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah... The same way it does when Exile, Refa and warleader posts aswell
Its not just the US that is wastful, people are wastful in canada to;)
Edit: I have learned to keep my mouth shut about my Veiws on the USA/Capitalism and other shit.... no scense in saying anything is its going to piss off people, even when you have a good point.
no really, I'm 21 without a license. I have lived in cities my entire life so I've never needed to drive. your bull shit meter is offensive captain simmons. I don't need to prove to you anything.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Aetius [/i]
[B]no really, I'm 21 without a license. I have lived in cities my entire life so I've never needed to drive. your bull shit meter is offensive captain simmons. I don't need to prove to you anything. [/B][/QUOTE]
I wouldn't even care what Simmonds says....to much useless comes out of his mouth.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Captain,Simmonds [/i]
[B]Its not just the US that is wastful, people are wastful in canada to;)[/B][/QUOTE]
Oil: [url]http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=111&contentId=2004193[/url]
[quote]I wouldn't even care what Simmonds says....to much useless comes out of his mouth.[/quote]
Thats right I dont realy give a rats ass what I say now anyway
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Aetius [/i]
[B]no really, I'm 21 without a license. I have lived in cities my entire life so I've never needed to drive. your bull shit meter is offensive captain simmons. I don't need to prove to you anything. [/B][/QUOTE]
I was refering to this statement [quote]The West is wasteful. Arrogance from Europe thinking everything is America's fault in wasting material is pathetic.[/quote]
Im with certain other people, Id love to see cars pulling trailers over the passes in the rockies, hell, let alone "smaller" mountain ranges in the cascades, Sierra Navadas and other spur mountin ranges where pass levels are only about 1800 meters above sea level and the roads up to them have some obnoxiously steep grades, shit, the road just to my house is an insane grade, and we just live in foot hills, towing with a car around here is insane.
Then again every other year we have to bring in gravel to repair the driveway, so we stress out our poor F-250 with the 6.9 L diesel :P then again it halls a full yard of gravel, up those grades. Id like to see you do that with a car :P
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]You know what? One day, I am going to go out and purchase a 1976 Cadillac Fleedwood Brougham 500.
Within its total 233" length, you could probably fit a pair of Hondas. In its trunk, Geo Metro. Under the hood is the largest production engine made: a 500ci V8 pumping out just a bit more than enough power to get this yacht--no, god damned cruise ship of a car moving. All this to carry four people.
And if I ever do own one? I'd make it clear that my car consumes a gallon of gas every four and a half miles (eight highway). [/B][/QUOTE]
It's your money. Just do us all a favor and actually use some of that wonderful excess. There's nothing more irritating than a lack of understanding that one uses the right tool for the right job.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]Id like to see you do that with a car :P [/B][/QUOTE]
Hell, I'd like to see quite a few people do that in an SUV. Can someone explain to me why city-dwelling people need a paramilitary, all terrain vehicle to get to and from work on well paved roads? Beyond an overarching desire to not notice if their behemoth of a vehicle accidentally crushes small animals, pedestrians, or cars, I can't really see a reason.
I believe that's what most people are complaining about when they say they're against SUVs. It's not the mountain-climbing lumberjacks and construction workers who actually need a truck's (and make no mistake, that's what an SUV is, no matter how much it's dressed up for the suburbanite market) capabilities, but the soccer moms who get them so they can loom over people on the road and get some sense of power in their frantic, pathetic lives.
Truly, the only reason that I (and any rational person) might resent them is that they are unnecessary, and like any vehicle, can be a menace when used improperly. I'd be interested to know how many people who own these trucks actually need them, and how many just don't like having money in their savings accounts.
[url=http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/suv/]If you know someone who wants to buy an SUV, and you suspect they're a yuppie trend-follower and don't actually need for drive through the Mississippi River or haul tons of construction materials or crush innocent people with impunity, have a look at this site. No, I don't own stock in them.[/url]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Yep, that's pretty much why I dislike most SUVs you see on the roads. They're driven by people who don't have any need for them and they're grossly inefficient (and often downright dangerous) for the job they're being made to do, which isn't the job the concept of a heavy duty vehicle is meant for.
On a more serious note, this is why I drive a 1987 Volvo 740 Wagon. it's "only" got a 2.3L I4, but it's no wimp when it comes to trailer towing or simple cargo capacity. The base engine and factory hitch are rated at 3400lbs of tow weight, which I've seen no issues with. I made a 390 mile trip from Long Island to upstate New York pulling over 2500lbs of weight split between the trunk and a 5x8 U-Haul trailer. With that load, it was still not too much on my brakes. The car would take 30-40% longer to stop completely, but that's not exactly unexpected. And as long as I stayed out of overdrive and occasionally dropped into third, the car handled the Pocono Mountains with relative ease. Hell, it could have easily carried 200 hundred pounds more, even in the steeper regions. The only trouble I could even think of was mostly due to my attempting to tow that weight without an automatic. Starting on hills was a bit tricky, but that wasn't an issue once I got out of the metro NY/NJ area.
Maybe my car in as exception, but I don't see why towing is used as an excuse to purchase an SUV. I honestly can't think of anyone who has ever towed more than 2000 lbs, if even *half* that, with their Yukon or Expedition, and even then, it's been for far less than 100 miles.
So yeah. now if I could only solve that vibration...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by David of Mac [/i]
[B]
Hell, I'd like to see quite a few people do that in an SUV. Can someone explain to me why city-dwelling people need a paramilitary, all terrain vehicle to get to and from work on well paved roads? Beyond an overarching desire to not notice if their behemoth of a vehicle accidentally crushes small animals, pedestrians, or cars, I can't really see a reason
Truly, the only reason that I (and any rational person) might resent them is that they are unnecessary, and like any vehicle, can be a menace when used improperly. I'd be interested to know how many people who own these trucks actually need them, and how many just don't like having money in their savings accounts.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Ive got to admit, I dislike SUV's myself, there are damn few of them that can be used in a serious off road environment.
I think they are lame and stupid.
I do want a Hummer though, but thats because I need something I can easily convert to having a ring mount :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vertigo1 [/i]
[B]Since when has he ever said anything useful or contributive in any way? [/B][/QUOTE]
Nor really alot, but that's what I mean. You shouldn't get worked up by what Simmonds says.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]On a more serious note, this is why I drive a 1987 Volvo 740 Wagon. it's "only" got a 2.3L I4, but it's no wimp when it comes to trailer towing or simple cargo capacity. The base engine and factory hitch are rated at 3400lbs of tow weight, which I've seen no issues with. I made a 390 mile trip from Long Island to upstate New York pulling over 2500lbs of weight split between the trunk and a 5x8 U-Haul trailer. With that load, it was still not too much on my brakes. The car would take 30-40% longer to stop completely, but that's not exactly unexpected. And as long as I stayed out of overdrive and occasionally dropped into third, the car handled the Pocono Mountains with relative ease. Hell, it could have easily carried 200 hundred pounds more, even in the steeper regions. The only trouble I could even think of was mostly due to my attempting to tow that weight without an automatic. Starting on hills was a bit tricky, but that wasn't an issue once I got out of the metro NY/NJ area.
Maybe my car in as exception, but I don't see why towing is used as an excuse to purchase an SUV. I honestly can't think of anyone who has ever towed more than 2000 lbs, if even *half* that, with their Yukon or Expedition, and even then, it's been for far less than 100 miles.
So yeah. now if I could only solve that vibration... [/B][/QUOTE]
you down tow with an SUV, you tow with a TRUCK damnit!
and secondly your mountains are small, deal with it. they are about the size of the coast range out here, which we view as hills :P
come on the highest point in New York
is just over 5000 feet , thats not a real mountain!
of course croxis and I live in vacinity of several mountains that hit the 10,000 foot mark :D
I gotta agree with ya, Tyvar. About the only advantage to owning an SUV is that you don't have to worry about covering/protecting your load (most pickup owners can solve that problem just by getting a camper shell for a few hundred $ more). Otherwise, you're spending an extra $20,000+ for a useless "status symbol".:rolleyes:
And yes, you DO need a truck to tow with if you travel over roads with steep grades (especially if you're pulling a loaded trailer that weighs at least as much as the vehicle you're using); no car I've ever heard of has the powertrain components necessary to let one pull a load over 2% (or steeper) grades without a breakdown (some station wagons built in the '70s could, but those usually had light truck engines, transmissions, etc.). I'd just [I]love[/I] to see someone who thinks otherwise try to pull my dad's pontoon boat eastward over Wolf Creek Pass (10,850 ft or a little over 3300m) in [U]any[/U] car; you'd be lucky to get past the switchback before something broke (or overheated; my dad's seen many vehicles do both over the years).
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
I don't think I've ever seen an SUV towing something here.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by An ex-Squid [/i]
[B]SUV=Stupid Urban Vehicle. 'nuff said.:)
And yes, you DO need a truck to tow with if you travel over roads with steep grades (especially if you're pulling a loaded trailer that weighs at least as much as the vehicle you're using); no car I've ever heard of has the powertrain components necessary to let one pull a load over 2% (or steeper) grades without a breakdown (some station wagons built in the '70s could, but those usually had light truck engines, transmissions, etc.). I'd just [I]love[/I] to see someone who thinks otherwise try to pull my dad's pontoon boat eastward over Wolf Creek Pass (10,850 ft or a little over 3300m) in [U]any[/U] car; you'd be lucky to get past the switchback before something broke (or overheated; my dad's seen many vehicles do both over the years). [/B][/QUOTE]
like I was half joking with Sanfam, the passes around here are at the same altitude level as the higest point in New York :D and 2% grades? psht, 5% to 7% are more like typical :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by An ex-Squid [/i]
[B]And yes, you DO need a truck to tow with if you travel over roads with steep grades (especially if you're pulling a loaded trailer that weighs at least as much as the vehicle you're using); no car I've ever heard of has the powertrain components necessary to let one pull a load over 2% (or steeper) grades without a breakdown (some station wagons built in the '70s could, but those usually had light truck engines, transmissions, etc.). I'd just [I]love[/I] to see someone who thinks otherwise try to pull my dad's pontoon boat eastward over Wolf Creek Pass (10,850 ft or a little over 3300m) in [U]any[/U] car; you'd be lucky to get past the switchback before something broke (or overheated; my dad's seen many vehicles do both over the years). [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, that's a perfect example of where a truck is to be used. Indeed, a non-v8 car would never be able to make that without massive problems. Hell, when I encountered a 4.75% grade, I had to shift into second to keep the engine safe.
In the sort of situation you're talking about, having a vehicle rated at those conditions is the only way to go, but for all intents and purposes, that is not something 95% of of America has even *thought* of doing. It just makes me sad seeing my neighbor with a 6.0L V8 in his suv which he probably hasn't even noticed much, outside of a quick burst of power for getting onto highways.
people generally buy SUV's for the perception that they are safer, that they feel safer driving em because they are high up. Whether its true or not doesn't really matter to what people feel. Its also gotten to the point that so many BIG cars are on the road now that one wants an SUV so they feel like they have a chance in a collision
Comments
[B]And I'm god damn sick of everyone yelling at each other, can't we all just live with what we got and care less what our neighbours have. [/B][/QUOTE]
Aparently some people can not.
Within its total 233" length, you could probably fit a pair of Hondas. In its trunk, Geo Metro. Under the hood is the largest production engine made: a 500ci V8 pumping out just a bit more than enough power to get this yacht--no, god damned cruise ship of a car moving. All this to carry four people.
And if I ever do own one? I'd make it clear that my car consumes a gallon of gas every four and a half miles (eight highway).
[B]I am an American. I do not even own a car. I don't even know how to drive. I use public transportation for everything. I'm 21 years old and I am proud that we have the choices we can make. The West is wasteful. Arrogance from Europe thinking everything is America's fault in wasting material is pathetic. [/B][/QUOTE]
My bull Shit metre went off.
[B]Arrogance from Europe thinking everything is America's fault in wasting material is pathetic. [/B][/QUOTE]
As you see here, it's not just europeans who are good at ignorant bashing of the US.
And hell, I see plenty of trucks and large-consumption cars here in Mexico, noone has mentioned that. What about Canada?
Oh wait, right. The US is the "great evil."
:rolleyes:
[B]The same way the board's one does every time you make a post? ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah... The same way it does when Exile, Refa and warleader posts aswell
Its not just the US that is wastful, people are wastful in canada to;)
Edit: I have learned to keep my mouth shut about my Veiws on the USA/Capitalism and other shit.... no scense in saying anything is its going to piss off people, even when you have a good point.
[B]no really, I'm 21 without a license. I have lived in cities my entire life so I've never needed to drive. your bull shit meter is offensive captain simmons. I don't need to prove to you anything. [/B][/QUOTE]
I wouldn't even care what Simmonds says....to much useless comes out of his mouth.
[B]Its not just the US that is wastful, people are wastful in canada to;)[/B][/QUOTE]
Oil: [url]http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=111&contentId=2004193[/url]
Natural gas: [url]http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=112&contentId=2006651[/url]
Coal: [url]http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=113&contentId=2000804[/url] (only by continent)
Thats right I dont realy give a rats ass what I say now anyway
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Aetius [/i]
[B]no really, I'm 21 without a license. I have lived in cities my entire life so I've never needed to drive. your bull shit meter is offensive captain simmons. I don't need to prove to you anything. [/B][/QUOTE]
I was refering to this statement [quote]The West is wasteful. Arrogance from Europe thinking everything is America's fault in wasting material is pathetic.[/quote]
Oh and I love the USA.... USA Über Alles
[B]Oil: [url]http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=111&contentId=2004193[/url]
Natural gas: [url]http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=112&contentId=2006651[/url]
Coal: [url]http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=113&contentId=2000804[/url] (only by continent) [/B][/QUOTE]
see its not just the US.... Its canada to.
Then again every other year we have to bring in gravel to repair the driveway, so we stress out our poor F-250 with the 6.9 L diesel :P then again it halls a full yard of gravel, up those grades. Id like to see you do that with a car :P
[B]You know what? One day, I am going to go out and purchase a 1976 Cadillac Fleedwood Brougham 500.
Within its total 233" length, you could probably fit a pair of Hondas. In its trunk, Geo Metro. Under the hood is the largest production engine made: a 500ci V8 pumping out just a bit more than enough power to get this yacht--no, god damned cruise ship of a car moving. All this to carry four people.
And if I ever do own one? I'd make it clear that my car consumes a gallon of gas every four and a half miles (eight highway). [/B][/QUOTE]
It's your money. Just do us all a favor and actually use some of that wonderful excess. There's nothing more irritating than a lack of understanding that one uses the right tool for the right job.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]Id like to see you do that with a car :P [/B][/QUOTE]
Hell, I'd like to see quite a few people do that in an SUV. Can someone explain to me why city-dwelling people need a paramilitary, all terrain vehicle to get to and from work on well paved roads? Beyond an overarching desire to not notice if their behemoth of a vehicle accidentally crushes small animals, pedestrians, or cars, I can't really see a reason.
I believe that's what most people are complaining about when they say they're against SUVs. It's not the mountain-climbing lumberjacks and construction workers who actually need a truck's (and make no mistake, that's what an SUV is, no matter how much it's dressed up for the suburbanite market) capabilities, but the soccer moms who get them so they can loom over people on the road and get some sense of power in their frantic, pathetic lives.
Truly, the only reason that I (and any rational person) might resent them is that they are unnecessary, and like any vehicle, can be a menace when used improperly. I'd be interested to know how many people who own these trucks actually need them, and how many just don't like having money in their savings accounts.
[url=http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/suv/]If you know someone who wants to buy an SUV, and you suspect they're a yuppie trend-follower and don't actually need for drive through the Mississippi River or haul tons of construction materials or crush innocent people with impunity, have a look at this site. No, I don't own stock in them.[/url]
[B]I did'nt mean everone did that, He said it was mainly around Trailer Parks. [/B][/QUOTE]
Trailers tend to need towing by large vehicles, being rather large
themselves :)
[B]I wouldn't even care what Simmonds says....to much useless comes out of his mouth. [/B][/QUOTE]
Since when has he ever said anything useful or contributive in any way?
Maybe my car in as exception, but I don't see why towing is used as an excuse to purchase an SUV. I honestly can't think of anyone who has ever towed more than 2000 lbs, if even *half* that, with their Yukon or Expedition, and even then, it's been for far less than 100 miles.
So yeah. now if I could only solve that vibration...
[B]
Hell, I'd like to see quite a few people do that in an SUV. Can someone explain to me why city-dwelling people need a paramilitary, all terrain vehicle to get to and from work on well paved roads? Beyond an overarching desire to not notice if their behemoth of a vehicle accidentally crushes small animals, pedestrians, or cars, I can't really see a reason
Truly, the only reason that I (and any rational person) might resent them is that they are unnecessary, and like any vehicle, can be a menace when used improperly. I'd be interested to know how many people who own these trucks actually need them, and how many just don't like having money in their savings accounts.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Ive got to admit, I dislike SUV's myself, there are damn few of them that can be used in a serious off road environment.
I think they are lame and stupid.
I do want a Hummer though, but thats because I need something I can easily convert to having a ring mount :D
[B]Since when has he ever said anything useful or contributive in any way? [/B][/QUOTE]
Never
[B]Since when has he ever said anything useful or contributive in any way? [/B][/QUOTE]
Nor really alot, but that's what I mean. You shouldn't get worked up by what Simmonds says.
[B]On a more serious note, this is why I drive a 1987 Volvo 740 Wagon. it's "only" got a 2.3L I4, but it's no wimp when it comes to trailer towing or simple cargo capacity. The base engine and factory hitch are rated at 3400lbs of tow weight, which I've seen no issues with. I made a 390 mile trip from Long Island to upstate New York pulling over 2500lbs of weight split between the trunk and a 5x8 U-Haul trailer. With that load, it was still not too much on my brakes. The car would take 30-40% longer to stop completely, but that's not exactly unexpected. And as long as I stayed out of overdrive and occasionally dropped into third, the car handled the Pocono Mountains with relative ease. Hell, it could have easily carried 200 hundred pounds more, even in the steeper regions. The only trouble I could even think of was mostly due to my attempting to tow that weight without an automatic. Starting on hills was a bit tricky, but that wasn't an issue once I got out of the metro NY/NJ area.
Maybe my car in as exception, but I don't see why towing is used as an excuse to purchase an SUV. I honestly can't think of anyone who has ever towed more than 2000 lbs, if even *half* that, with their Yukon or Expedition, and even then, it's been for far less than 100 miles.
So yeah. now if I could only solve that vibration... [/B][/QUOTE]
you down tow with an SUV, you tow with a TRUCK damnit!
and secondly your mountains are small, deal with it. they are about the size of the coast range out here, which we view as hills :P
come on the highest point in New York
is just over 5000 feet , thats not a real mountain!
of course croxis and I live in vacinity of several mountains that hit the 10,000 foot mark :D
I gotta agree with ya, Tyvar. About the only advantage to owning an SUV is that you don't have to worry about covering/protecting your load (most pickup owners can solve that problem just by getting a camper shell for a few hundred $ more). Otherwise, you're spending an extra $20,000+ for a useless "status symbol".:rolleyes:
And yes, you DO need a truck to tow with if you travel over roads with steep grades (especially if you're pulling a loaded trailer that weighs at least as much as the vehicle you're using); no car I've ever heard of has the powertrain components necessary to let one pull a load over 2% (or steeper) grades without a breakdown (some station wagons built in the '70s could, but those usually had light truck engines, transmissions, etc.). I'd just [I]love[/I] to see someone who thinks otherwise try to pull my dad's pontoon boat eastward over Wolf Creek Pass (10,850 ft or a little over 3300m) in [U]any[/U] car; you'd be lucky to get past the switchback before something broke (or overheated; my dad's seen many vehicles do both over the years).
[B]SUV=Stupid Urban Vehicle. 'nuff said.:)
And yes, you DO need a truck to tow with if you travel over roads with steep grades (especially if you're pulling a loaded trailer that weighs at least as much as the vehicle you're using); no car I've ever heard of has the powertrain components necessary to let one pull a load over 2% (or steeper) grades without a breakdown (some station wagons built in the '70s could, but those usually had light truck engines, transmissions, etc.). I'd just [I]love[/I] to see someone who thinks otherwise try to pull my dad's pontoon boat eastward over Wolf Creek Pass (10,850 ft or a little over 3300m) in [U]any[/U] car; you'd be lucky to get past the switchback before something broke (or overheated; my dad's seen many vehicles do both over the years). [/B][/QUOTE]
like I was half joking with Sanfam, the passes around here are at the same altitude level as the higest point in New York :D and 2% grades? psht, 5% to 7% are more like typical :D
[B]And yes, you DO need a truck to tow with if you travel over roads with steep grades (especially if you're pulling a loaded trailer that weighs at least as much as the vehicle you're using); no car I've ever heard of has the powertrain components necessary to let one pull a load over 2% (or steeper) grades without a breakdown (some station wagons built in the '70s could, but those usually had light truck engines, transmissions, etc.). I'd just [I]love[/I] to see someone who thinks otherwise try to pull my dad's pontoon boat eastward over Wolf Creek Pass (10,850 ft or a little over 3300m) in [U]any[/U] car; you'd be lucky to get past the switchback before something broke (or overheated; my dad's seen many vehicles do both over the years). [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, that's a perfect example of where a truck is to be used. Indeed, a non-v8 car would never be able to make that without massive problems. Hell, when I encountered a 4.75% grade, I had to shift into second to keep the engine safe.
In the sort of situation you're talking about, having a vehicle rated at those conditions is the only way to go, but for all intents and purposes, that is not something 95% of of America has even *thought* of doing. It just makes me sad seeing my neighbor with a 6.0L V8 in his suv which he probably hasn't even noticed much, outside of a quick burst of power for getting onto highways.
SUVs are just another example of the "keeping up with the Jones" syndrome; "if the neighbor has one, I've gotta have one".