standardized test like the SAT I can fully understand, it's a test universally accepted by colleges over the US, which allowed them to see where the student is.
but the yearly FCAT or ISAT (The Illinois version of the FCAT) are just hideious.
[quote] (From the blog site)
WASHINGTON (AP) - Almost 1.1 million students were home-schooled last year, their numbers pushed higher by parents frustrated over school conditions and wanting to include morality and religion with the English and math.[/quote]
1.1 million? What, in one state?! LOL. That number is WAYYYY low.
In 1991 the Wall Street Journal reported that there were over 1 million homeschoolers.
the Washington Post's artical stated accuretly that the growth rate is over 20% a year for homeschoolers.
soo, theres a couple reasons that number is off.
Thats the number of homeschoolers that are registered through the county. Most, based on what I've seen from conversations with the county school board superintendent, and from personal experience, are not registered through the county, they work under umbrella schools (Thus meaning the kids gets a high school diploma)
then of course, there are the die hards that homeschool via their constitutional right....
I dunno what the real number is, but it's WELL over 1.1 million.
[quote]
All of these are things parents should be concerned about when it comes to their children. But heaven knows we can't have a "balanced" report on homeschooling without a hysterical critic who insists that all homeschooled kids are kept locked in closets until their 18th birthday:
That sense of anxiety - fueled by terrorism warnings, high-profile school shootings and a desire to keep children out of harm's way - probably has helped home schooling grow, said Ted Feinberg, assistant executive director of the National Association of School Psychologists...Feinberg said, parents must consider whether their children will emerge from home schooling with limited exposure to other children and various cultures...
"At some point, children are going to have to interact with the rest of the world," he said. "If they haven't had the opportunity to build their emotional muscles so they have that capacity to interact, how effective are they going to be outside their cloistered environment?"
Can we please, once and for all, stop with the myth that homeschooled kids never leave the house, never interact socially with other kids their age, and never learn anything about "other cultures"? We all know that's being tossed in here as a sop to the cult of diversity; given that most families are not diverse in ethnicity or SES, no wonder the growing popularity of homeschooling gives the PC educrat types fits.
As Michelle Malkin points out, it's frighteningly easy to compile a list of "invaluable, emotional muscle-building experiences" to use as an argument for why kids shouldn't be allowed near public schools. It's ludicrous, in the age of the Internet, to argue that kids who are educated at home are somehow "cloistered" away from society.
[/quote]
I like that one. :) Heh...apparently, every media source compleatly ignores little things called "Home School Groups" which means all the area homeschools schedual get togethers..the kids play, the parents share ideas...they go on feild trips at group rates, etc...
I almost never post in here, or anywhere else for that matter, but I think this subject needs my input. I feel that A2597 needs to rethink his "homeschooling is better" frame of mind. While typos do happen, his absolute misspelling of words that we learn in the public school system indicates that maybe his views are not completely correct.
LOL. I've been waiting for someone to comment on that. :)
Just because I can't spell doesn't mean I'm not smart. ;) I don't need to post my educational record here, but I know I fare better then the kids from the local high schools. (Not all of course! There are some really really smart people that make me feel like I'm still in third grade...LOL, but on average, I'm the guy everyone else goes to for help. In every subject. And I make straight A's in English, from even the hardest eanglish professors).
I just have a bad habit of totally letting spelling go on the wayside when posting online. Spelling meaning proofreading. And if I ever learned to type properly, I might actually spell better. :) hehe
I should say that the Ontario School System is prity fucked up... Mostly Thanks to Mike the Knife and the Conservative party.... The ADD thing happens here too, Mostly becuase the teachers are to fucking lazy to teach the class, and Ignore the kids who need the fucking help and consintrate on the kids who are doing fine on their own....
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]1.1 million? What, in one state?! LOL. That number is WAYYYY low. [/B][/QUOTE]
In one [i]state?![/i] There are only sixty million kids in the country. Considering that home-schooling isn't exactly a traditional staple of our culture, I would think 2% is plenty. What sort of number would you think is more accurate, if I may ask?
If you hate standardized testing, A2597, you're supporting the wrong guy for President.
Shrub changed the school system in Texas to put ABSOLUTE value on the TAAS test, which is likely even nastier than the Florida one. Teachers are glad when the testing is done for the year ("At last I can teach some science"-actual quote) because NOTHING else matters but the testing scores.
Now, maybe it would be different if shrub and his party would stop trying to dismantle the Deparment of Education and make all teaching controlled on a state level. Which would mean that the incredible disparities between Mississippi and Illinois would be insurmountable. Pulling money out of the system instead of trying to make real repairs and reforms might make things better, hmm? Possibly funding the "No Child Left Behind" act could make improve the situation?
Homeschooling may work for some people, but it is not a panacea for all the problems in our country.
I'm going to guess you were raised in the suburbs, my numerically named fellow B5 fan. Rural and inner city areas would be terrible environments for home schooling for many different reasons that I shall not begin to post here.
Back to the original topic on this thread....
Haven't you guys ever seen Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments? He'll stop people on the street, showing them pictures of famous or influential world leaders. When asked to identify the pictures, most people have no idea who they are.
There seems to be a very strange attitude here. Most people in the United States have very little idea about the rest of the world. We are so insulated and so resource-wealthy that the rest of the world has little impact on the average US citizen. This is further exacerbated by the very limited coverage of global events the media here reports.
"3 US Marines killed in Iraq today." Very fleeting mention of casualties of any other nations, unless it's the body count rung up by our soldiers in the fighting.
"Hundreds killed in terrorist blast, inluding 6 americans." Concentrate on the americans, giving names and such, demonstrating to the citizen sheep here that people of other nations are quite unimportant.
It's a terrible attitude, brought on by geographical isolation and a certain amount of greed.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]Fear...of...what exactly?
"MOMMY MOMMY NOOO!!! I beat op Johnny last week and the Principal Spanked me! I don't wanna gooo!"
If the kid behaves, theres nothing to worry about. Note I mentioned [i]properly[/i] spanked. meaning They did something that deserved it, kid was told what they did wrong, spanked, told again what they did wrong, and not to do it again, and sent on their way. [/B][/QUOTE]
I guess I'm speaking from my own experience. When I was a wee tyke in school I was afraid of getting in trouble. If physical pain had been a possiblility, I know I would have been terrified.
And on a side note, thanks A# for clearing up that you meant properly spanked as in correctly spanked instead of thoroughly spanked. I thought you meant the latter when I read your argument.
Seperate from personal experience I'll see if I can come up with a few arguments (or more flesh out what I said before...):
I guess my strongest is that if it works on the kid, if they do respect authority [i]because[/i] they were spanked, what kind of lesson is that for a kid? They might not actually think about it that way, but the association would be made subconciously at least. If you want someone to respect you, you hurt them till they do. If Junior beat up Johnny the other week, and got "beat up" (ok! not beat up, spanked. "Beat up" is necesary for the symmetry of the sentence ;)) by the Principle the next while being told that beating people is bad...That's one confussed Junior.
Another concern would be rampant sexual assault charges. Not all parents agree with their own kids getting spanked, and would be quite happy to sue the school if their sweetie pie came home with a sore bottom. No matter how much he/she deserved it. It would get into a leagal mess I don't want to imagine much...Would the spankings be supervised by a witness? Would there be a "Standard spank" that all principals would have to learn? What about repeat offenders, harder spankings?
And about the spelling thing, I honestly didn't even notice any mistakes in A#'s writings. And if I did, I wouldn't use an ad hominem attack in a discussion. It's much more interesting to attack and carte parry with words. And hey, if A# wasn't defending (and rather well) the other side of the discussion, it wouldn't be much a discussion would it :p
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Phi [/i]
[B]The Canadian equivalent: [URL=http://home.comcast.net/~wwwstephen/americans/]Talking To Americans[/URL]
This was CBC's most popular "documentary" for quite a while. Watch a clip or two, Rick Mercer is hilarious :D
What you said about all principals being taught how to spank brings to mind a good story...kinda funny. :)
My dad was a teacher. His first day there, after classes were over, the principle took him to his office, where the kids that misbehaved were lined up, and taught him how to properly spank a kid. So you get that nice loud THWACK! And sharp pain, that subsides after about 5 minutes. Dad said he felt sorry for this first kid, because The Principal Spanked him once, then dad tried, and failed, so the principle showed him again, and dad tried again...and well..apparently this lasted a few rounds. :)
Heh, bad part about typing is it's really hard to add accents and punctuation...but apparently the kids in the high school would tell eachother to
"Beware that Mr. (Name excluded for privacy reasons)! He hit's like lightning!"
But, the kids also respected him, not out of fear of punishment, just, they knew he was boss, but also that he was fair. You wouldn't get in trouble unless you deserved it.
Make sure you watch the one about states vs. provinces. I want to shake the hand of that little kid at the end :D
And poor kid in the story ;)
-Φ
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]But, the kids also respected him, not out of fear of punishment, just, they knew he was boss, but also that he was fair. You wouldn't get in trouble unless you deserved it. [/B][/QUOTE]
And that's exactly the problem with the system. Not all teachers are fair, especially not in the eyes of all students. Same goes for any punishment system.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AnlaShok [/i]
If you hate standardized testing, A2597, you're supporting the wrong guy for President.
[b]possibly, but ya know, It's always the lesser of two evils, and I just don't like Kerry at all...[/b]
Shrub changed the school system in Texas to put ABSOLUTE value on the TAAS test, which is likely even nastier than the Florida one. Teachers are glad when the testing is done for the year ("At last I can teach some science"-actual quote) because NOTHING else matters but the testing scores.
[b]If the teacher got to actually teach something, it beats most of Florida. ;) Seriously, test scores are THE MOST IMPORTENT THING here as well. [/b]
Now, maybe it would be different if shrub and his party would stop trying to dismantle the Deparment of Education and make all teaching controlled on a state level. Which would mean that the incredible disparities between Mississippi and Illinois would be insurmountable. Pulling money out of the system instead of trying to make real repairs and reforms might make things better, hmm? Possibly funding the "No Child Left Behind" act could make improve the situation?
[b]I don't really care for NCLB. [/b]
Homeschooling may work for some people, but it is not a panacea for all the problems in our country.
[b]Nope, just alot of em. :D ;)[/b]
I'm going to guess you were raised in the suburbs, my numerically named fellow B5 fan. Rural and inner city areas would be terrible environments for home schooling for many different reasons that I shall not begin to post here.
[b]part of my life. City. last 9 years, lets just say the nearest sidewalk is 3 miles away, in a town with three redlight.[/b]
Back to the original topic on this thread....
Haven't you guys ever seen Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments? He'll stop people on the street, showing them pictures of famous or influential world leaders. When asked to identify the pictures, most people have no idea who they are.
[b]Last one I say, they couldn't identify Dick Cheny or Colin Powel...LOL[/b]
There seems to be a very strange attitude here. Most people in the United States have very little idea about the rest of the world. We are so insulated and so resource-wealthy that the rest of the world has little impact on the average US citizen. This is further exacerbated by the very limited coverage of global events the media here reports.
[b]Fully agree[/b]
"3 US Marines killed in Iraq today." Very fleeting mention of casualties of any other nations, unless it's the body count rung up by our soldiers in the fighting.
"Hundreds killed in terrorist blast, inluding 6 americans." Concentrate on the americans, giving names and such, demonstrating to the citizen sheep here that people of other nations are quite unimportant.
[b]again, I fully agree. it's sickening.[/b]
It's a terrible attitude, brought on by geographical isolation and a certain amount of greed.
I'd like that situation to change.
[b]and since this happens so rarely, I'll say it again. I agree
[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]And that's exactly the problem with the system. Not all teachers are fair, especially not in the eyes of all students. Same goes for any punishment system. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]And that's exactly the problem with the system. Not all teachers are fair, especially not in the eyes of all students. Same goes for any punishment system. [/B][/QUOTE]
Considering the politically correct grading system I see at certain local public high schools, I firmly believe that's a big part of the problem. Stop coddling kids. If they don't demonstrate a functional understanding of the material, fail them. Period.
Why assign high school kids summer reading assignments if the mental giants they have for teachers won't test them on the material? It's a waste.
That said, you can still get a hell of a lot of good out of schools as a child if you actually go into the situation wanting to learn.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]What you said about all principals being taught how to spank brings to mind a good story...kinda funny. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
IMO, that's far from funny. Of course, I don't believe in assaulting kids like that in order to make a point. Again IMO, all it does is teach the kids to fear adults and that violence is okay.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JohnD [/i]
[B]IMO, that's far from funny. Of course, I don't believe in assaulting kids like that in order to make a point. Again IMO, all it does is teach the kids to fear adults and that violence is okay. [/B][/QUOTE]
I was spanked...I don't fear my parents. (Healthy respect, but I think all kids should have that)
I know kids that were spanked with a belt, and they turned out fine.
spanking a kid doesn't teach them violence is OK, unless you beat them for no reason. Thus why I stated you have to tell them what they did wrong before and after the spanking. THAT sends the correct message.
and did I mention spanking is to be reserved for only the worse offences? (Well...worse being subjective. I mean, spanking a kid that just shot a fellow student is WAYYYY to weak. but it's also far to much for say, failing to do your homeword....
I have to point out that spanking your children is illegal in Sweden, and people manage to raise children here too...
Spanking children is for me like kicking dogs etc. There are many more effective ways to raise children, a bad consciense is in many ways far more effective. My parents are experts on that one..
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Messiah [/i]
[B]Spanking children is for me like kicking dogs etc. There are many more effective ways to raise children, a bad consciense is in many ways far more effective. My parents are experts on that one.. [/B][/QUOTE]
Amen. There are five words that are more effective on me when used by my parents than any spanking.
I think a good parent should be able to raise a child to respect them enough that "I'm very dissapointed in you" would be sufficient, but also that spanking is acceptable. My own parents have learned that the former doesn't work, because I don't respect them enough to care. Thankfully, I'm a bit old for the latter. :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]No child would give a shit about a parent being dissapointed in them unless they already had a healthy respect for their parents.
and since most kids don't...
man, I wish I could see how your kids turn out.
"Lil' Timmy sets fire to the cat, breaks into the beer and pawns off Dad's sterio"
"I'm very dissapointed in you!"
"Yea, sure dad, whatever" *Walk out of house*
You HONESTLY think saying that to a kid will do ANYTHING? [/B][/QUOTE]
That would work if the Timmy had been raised better. Also, Timmy should have know that setting fire on the cat and stuff isn't nice and would make his parents dissapointed and because of that not do it at all.
Since I don't want to repeat "IMO" 101 times in this reply, everything I say is my opinion.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]I was spanked...I don't fear my parents. (Healthy respect, but I think all kids should have that)[/B][/QUOTE]
NOW you don't. You didn't fear being spanked? You didn't avoid doing bad things as a child because you feared the punishment?
Why spank someone other than to put the fear into that child that if they do the same thing again, they will receive a painful punishment? Parents who spank kids to punish them aren't teaching those children to do what's right because it's right. They aren't being taught to avoid doing bad things because those things are bad and wrong. Spanking simply teaches them to avoid doing bad things in order to avoid a painful punishment.
When parents use that approach, they aren't teaching their kids to do good and avoid doing bad. They're simply teaching them that pain awaits them when they do bad. The parents are teaching the child to fear doing bad, not that doing bad is the morally incorrect choice and so, to be avoided. Those are two different lessons.
[QUOTE][B]I know kids that were spanked with a belt, and they turned out fine.[/B][/QUOTE]
But you don't know if they turned out fine BECAUSE OF being spanked or DESPITE being spanked (emphasis is placed on those words for a reason). There is no way to know, since the spanking had already been applied in the past.
[QUOTE][B]spanking a kid doesn't teach them violence is OK, unless you beat them for no reason. Thus why I stated you have to tell them what they did wrong before and after the spanking. THAT sends the correct message.[/B][/QUOTE]
Of course it teaches kids that violence is okay. Parents who spank are using violence and the physical pain/discomfort resulting from that violence as a negative reinforcement to curb their child's bad behavior. Are the parents right or wrong in using that violence (and yes, spanking is violence) towards that goal?
Even if spanking is used for applications in which you think it's appropriate, if the application of violence as a negative reinforcement is right/correct, then the parents ARE teaching the child that violence is right and correct. After all, they are applying pain/discomfort via violence in a means they consider to be right/correct.
If the application of violence as a negative reinforcement is incorrect, then the parents are teaching the child that violence is wrong and incorrect, but still a tactic they can and/or should use in life.
[QUOTE][B]and did I mention spanking is to be reserved for only the worse offences? (Well...worse being subjective. I mean, spanking a kid that just shot a fellow student is WAYYYY to weak. but it's also far to much for say, failing to do your homeword.... [/B][/QUOTE]
The bad behavior for which spanking is reserved as a punishment really doesn't matter, as the lesson of the utility of violence as a response to disagreement or disagreeable behavior is still being taught.
Comments
but the yearly FCAT or ISAT (The Illinois version of the FCAT) are just hideious.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Almost 1.1 million students were home-schooled last year, their numbers pushed higher by parents frustrated over school conditions and wanting to include morality and religion with the English and math.[/quote]
1.1 million? What, in one state?! LOL. That number is WAYYYY low.
In 1991 the Wall Street Journal reported that there were over 1 million homeschoolers.
the Washington Post's artical stated accuretly that the growth rate is over 20% a year for homeschoolers.
soo, theres a couple reasons that number is off.
Thats the number of homeschoolers that are registered through the county. Most, based on what I've seen from conversations with the county school board superintendent, and from personal experience, are not registered through the county, they work under umbrella schools (Thus meaning the kids gets a high school diploma)
then of course, there are the die hards that homeschool via their constitutional right....
I dunno what the real number is, but it's WELL over 1.1 million.
[quote]
All of these are things parents should be concerned about when it comes to their children. But heaven knows we can't have a "balanced" report on homeschooling without a hysterical critic who insists that all homeschooled kids are kept locked in closets until their 18th birthday:
That sense of anxiety - fueled by terrorism warnings, high-profile school shootings and a desire to keep children out of harm's way - probably has helped home schooling grow, said Ted Feinberg, assistant executive director of the National Association of School Psychologists...Feinberg said, parents must consider whether their children will emerge from home schooling with limited exposure to other children and various cultures...
"At some point, children are going to have to interact with the rest of the world," he said. "If they haven't had the opportunity to build their emotional muscles so they have that capacity to interact, how effective are they going to be outside their cloistered environment?"
Can we please, once and for all, stop with the myth that homeschooled kids never leave the house, never interact socially with other kids their age, and never learn anything about "other cultures"? We all know that's being tossed in here as a sop to the cult of diversity; given that most families are not diverse in ethnicity or SES, no wonder the growing popularity of homeschooling gives the PC educrat types fits.
As Michelle Malkin points out, it's frighteningly easy to compile a list of "invaluable, emotional muscle-building experiences" to use as an argument for why kids shouldn't be allowed near public schools. It's ludicrous, in the age of the Internet, to argue that kids who are educated at home are somehow "cloistered" away from society.
[/quote]
I like that one. :) Heh...apparently, every media source compleatly ignores little things called "Home School Groups" which means all the area homeschools schedual get togethers..the kids play, the parents share ideas...they go on feild trips at group rates, etc...
Just because I can't spell doesn't mean I'm not smart. ;) I don't need to post my educational record here, but I know I fare better then the kids from the local high schools. (Not all of course! There are some really really smart people that make me feel like I'm still in third grade...LOL, but on average, I'm the guy everyone else goes to for help. In every subject. And I make straight A's in English, from even the hardest eanglish professors).
I just have a bad habit of totally letting spelling go on the wayside when posting online. Spelling meaning proofreading. And if I ever learned to type properly, I might actually spell better. :) hehe
Not everyone is good with words, regardless of intelligence. The same can be said about numbers too.
People's brains work differently, they think differently.
I know that maths is not my subject of choice but I don't believe that makes me an idiot.
Worf
[B]1.1 million? What, in one state?! LOL. That number is WAYYYY low. [/B][/QUOTE]
In one [i]state?![/i] There are only sixty million kids in the country. Considering that home-schooling isn't exactly a traditional staple of our culture, I would think 2% is plenty. What sort of number would you think is more accurate, if I may ask?
Shrub changed the school system in Texas to put ABSOLUTE value on the TAAS test, which is likely even nastier than the Florida one. Teachers are glad when the testing is done for the year ("At last I can teach some science"-actual quote) because NOTHING else matters but the testing scores.
Now, maybe it would be different if shrub and his party would stop trying to dismantle the Deparment of Education and make all teaching controlled on a state level. Which would mean that the incredible disparities between Mississippi and Illinois would be insurmountable. Pulling money out of the system instead of trying to make real repairs and reforms might make things better, hmm? Possibly funding the "No Child Left Behind" act could make improve the situation?
Homeschooling may work for some people, but it is not a panacea for all the problems in our country.
I'm going to guess you were raised in the suburbs, my numerically named fellow B5 fan. Rural and inner city areas would be terrible environments for home schooling for many different reasons that I shall not begin to post here.
Back to the original topic on this thread....
Haven't you guys ever seen Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments? He'll stop people on the street, showing them pictures of famous or influential world leaders. When asked to identify the pictures, most people have no idea who they are.
There seems to be a very strange attitude here. Most people in the United States have very little idea about the rest of the world. We are so insulated and so resource-wealthy that the rest of the world has little impact on the average US citizen. This is further exacerbated by the very limited coverage of global events the media here reports.
"3 US Marines killed in Iraq today." Very fleeting mention of casualties of any other nations, unless it's the body count rung up by our soldiers in the fighting.
"Hundreds killed in terrorist blast, inluding 6 americans." Concentrate on the americans, giving names and such, demonstrating to the citizen sheep here that people of other nations are quite unimportant.
It's a terrible attitude, brought on by geographical isolation and a certain amount of greed.
I'd like that situation to change.
[B]Fear...of...what exactly?
"MOMMY MOMMY NOOO!!! I beat op Johnny last week and the Principal Spanked me! I don't wanna gooo!"
If the kid behaves, theres nothing to worry about. Note I mentioned [i]properly[/i] spanked. meaning They did something that deserved it, kid was told what they did wrong, spanked, told again what they did wrong, and not to do it again, and sent on their way. [/B][/QUOTE]
I guess I'm speaking from my own experience. When I was a wee tyke in school I was afraid of getting in trouble. If physical pain had been a possiblility, I know I would have been terrified.
And on a side note, thanks A# for clearing up that you meant properly spanked as in correctly spanked instead of thoroughly spanked. I thought you meant the latter when I read your argument.
Seperate from personal experience I'll see if I can come up with a few arguments (or more flesh out what I said before...):
I guess my strongest is that if it works on the kid, if they do respect authority [i]because[/i] they were spanked, what kind of lesson is that for a kid? They might not actually think about it that way, but the association would be made subconciously at least. If you want someone to respect you, you hurt them till they do. If Junior beat up Johnny the other week, and got "beat up" (ok! not beat up, spanked. "Beat up" is necesary for the symmetry of the sentence ;)) by the Principle the next while being told that beating people is bad...That's one confussed Junior.
Another concern would be rampant sexual assault charges. Not all parents agree with their own kids getting spanked, and would be quite happy to sue the school if their sweetie pie came home with a sore bottom. No matter how much he/she deserved it. It would get into a leagal mess I don't want to imagine much...Would the spankings be supervised by a witness? Would there be a "Standard spank" that all principals would have to learn? What about repeat offenders, harder spankings?
And about the spelling thing, I honestly didn't even notice any mistakes in A#'s writings. And if I did, I wouldn't use an ad hominem attack in a discussion. It's much more interesting to attack and carte parry with words. And hey, if A# wasn't defending (and rather well) the other side of the discussion, it wouldn't be much a discussion would it :p
-Φ
[B]The Canadian equivalent: [URL=http://home.comcast.net/~wwwstephen/americans/]Talking To Americans[/URL]
This was CBC's most popular "documentary" for quite a while. Watch a clip or two, Rick Mercer is hilarious :D
-Φ [/B][/QUOTE]
Roy D. Mercer is better. :D
My dad was a teacher. His first day there, after classes were over, the principle took him to his office, where the kids that misbehaved were lined up, and taught him how to properly spank a kid. So you get that nice loud THWACK! And sharp pain, that subsides after about 5 minutes. Dad said he felt sorry for this first kid, because The Principal Spanked him once, then dad tried, and failed, so the principle showed him again, and dad tried again...and well..apparently this lasted a few rounds. :)
Heh, bad part about typing is it's really hard to add accents and punctuation...but apparently the kids in the high school would tell eachother to
"Beware that Mr. (Name excluded for privacy reasons)! He hit's like lightning!"
But, the kids also respected him, not out of fear of punishment, just, they knew he was boss, but also that he was fair. You wouldn't get in trouble unless you deserved it.
TALKING TO AMERICANS IS HILARIOUS!! :D
*cough*Bergis*/cough*
And poor kid in the story ;)
-Φ
[B]But, the kids also respected him, not out of fear of punishment, just, they knew he was boss, but also that he was fair. You wouldn't get in trouble unless you deserved it. [/B][/QUOTE]
And that's exactly the problem with the system. Not all teachers are fair, especially not in the eyes of all students. Same goes for any punishment system.
If you hate standardized testing, A2597, you're supporting the wrong guy for President.
[b]possibly, but ya know, It's always the lesser of two evils, and I just don't like Kerry at all...[/b]
Shrub changed the school system in Texas to put ABSOLUTE value on the TAAS test, which is likely even nastier than the Florida one. Teachers are glad when the testing is done for the year ("At last I can teach some science"-actual quote) because NOTHING else matters but the testing scores.
[b]If the teacher got to actually teach something, it beats most of Florida. ;) Seriously, test scores are THE MOST IMPORTENT THING here as well. [/b]
Now, maybe it would be different if shrub and his party would stop trying to dismantle the Deparment of Education and make all teaching controlled on a state level. Which would mean that the incredible disparities between Mississippi and Illinois would be insurmountable. Pulling money out of the system instead of trying to make real repairs and reforms might make things better, hmm? Possibly funding the "No Child Left Behind" act could make improve the situation?
[b]I don't really care for NCLB. [/b]
Homeschooling may work for some people, but it is not a panacea for all the problems in our country.
[b]Nope, just alot of em. :D ;)[/b]
I'm going to guess you were raised in the suburbs, my numerically named fellow B5 fan. Rural and inner city areas would be terrible environments for home schooling for many different reasons that I shall not begin to post here.
[b]part of my life. City. last 9 years, lets just say the nearest sidewalk is 3 miles away, in a town with three redlight.[/b]
Back to the original topic on this thread....
Haven't you guys ever seen Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments? He'll stop people on the street, showing them pictures of famous or influential world leaders. When asked to identify the pictures, most people have no idea who they are.
[b]Last one I say, they couldn't identify Dick Cheny or Colin Powel...LOL[/b]
There seems to be a very strange attitude here. Most people in the United States have very little idea about the rest of the world. We are so insulated and so resource-wealthy that the rest of the world has little impact on the average US citizen. This is further exacerbated by the very limited coverage of global events the media here reports.
[b]Fully agree[/b]
"3 US Marines killed in Iraq today." Very fleeting mention of casualties of any other nations, unless it's the body count rung up by our soldiers in the fighting.
"Hundreds killed in terrorist blast, inluding 6 americans." Concentrate on the americans, giving names and such, demonstrating to the citizen sheep here that people of other nations are quite unimportant.
[b]again, I fully agree. it's sickening.[/b]
It's a terrible attitude, brought on by geographical isolation and a certain amount of greed.
I'd like that situation to change.
[b]and since this happens so rarely, I'll say it again. I agree
[/B][/QUOTE]
[B]And that's exactly the problem with the system. Not all teachers are fair, especially not in the eyes of all students. Same goes for any punishment system. [/B][/QUOTE]
for those that don't see it as fair...
*Grabs cattle prod*
:D ;) :eek:
I"M KIDDING PEOPLE...sheesh....
[B]And that's exactly the problem with the system. Not all teachers are fair, especially not in the eyes of all students. Same goes for any punishment system. [/B][/QUOTE]
Considering the politically correct grading system I see at certain local public high schools, I firmly believe that's a big part of the problem. Stop coddling kids. If they don't demonstrate a functional understanding of the material, fail them. Period.
Why assign high school kids summer reading assignments if the mental giants they have for teachers won't test them on the material? It's a waste.
That said, you can still get a hell of a lot of good out of schools as a child if you actually go into the situation wanting to learn.
[B]What you said about all principals being taught how to spank brings to mind a good story...kinda funny. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
IMO, that's far from funny. Of course, I don't believe in assaulting kids like that in order to make a point. Again IMO, all it does is teach the kids to fear adults and that violence is okay.
[B]Most people in the United States have very little idea about the rest of the world.[/B][/QUOTE]
I haven't met most of the American population, so won't make that claim :)
[B]IMO, that's far from funny. Of course, I don't believe in assaulting kids like that in order to make a point. Again IMO, all it does is teach the kids to fear adults and that violence is okay. [/B][/QUOTE]
I was spanked...I don't fear my parents. (Healthy respect, but I think all kids should have that)
I know kids that were spanked with a belt, and they turned out fine.
spanking a kid doesn't teach them violence is OK, unless you beat them for no reason. Thus why I stated you have to tell them what they did wrong before and after the spanking. THAT sends the correct message.
and did I mention spanking is to be reserved for only the worse offences? (Well...worse being subjective. I mean, spanking a kid that just shot a fellow student is WAYYYY to weak. but it's also far to much for say, failing to do your homeword....
Spanking children is for me like kicking dogs etc. There are many more effective ways to raise children, a bad consciense is in many ways far more effective. My parents are experts on that one..
[B]Spanking children is for me like kicking dogs etc. There are many more effective ways to raise children, a bad consciense is in many ways far more effective. My parents are experts on that one.. [/B][/QUOTE]
Amen. There are five words that are more effective on me when used by my parents than any spanking.
"I'm very disappointed in you."
and since most kids don't...
man, I wish I could see how your kids turn out.
"Lil' Timmy sets fire to the cat, breaks into the beer and pawns off Dad's sterio"
"I'm very dissapointed in you!"
"Yea, sure dad, whatever" *Walk out of house*
You HONESTLY think saying that to a kid will do ANYTHING?
I for one dont respect anyone who would spank their children.
IMO if a parent can't get respect out of his/her children without spanking there's really something wrong with the parent.
And also, it shouldn't be the schools job to learn the kid to respect teachers or adults, that's what parents are for.
[B]No child would give a shit about a parent being dissapointed in them unless they already had a healthy respect for their parents.
and since most kids don't...
man, I wish I could see how your kids turn out.
"Lil' Timmy sets fire to the cat, breaks into the beer and pawns off Dad's sterio"
"I'm very dissapointed in you!"
"Yea, sure dad, whatever" *Walk out of house*
You HONESTLY think saying that to a kid will do ANYTHING? [/B][/QUOTE]
That would work if the Timmy had been raised better. Also, Timmy should have know that setting fire on the cat and stuff isn't nice and would make his parents dissapointed and because of that not do it at all.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]I was spanked...I don't fear my parents. (Healthy respect, but I think all kids should have that)[/B][/QUOTE]
NOW you don't. You didn't fear being spanked? You didn't avoid doing bad things as a child because you feared the punishment?
Why spank someone other than to put the fear into that child that if they do the same thing again, they will receive a painful punishment? Parents who spank kids to punish them aren't teaching those children to do what's right because it's right. They aren't being taught to avoid doing bad things because those things are bad and wrong. Spanking simply teaches them to avoid doing bad things in order to avoid a painful punishment.
When parents use that approach, they aren't teaching their kids to do good and avoid doing bad. They're simply teaching them that pain awaits them when they do bad. The parents are teaching the child to fear doing bad, not that doing bad is the morally incorrect choice and so, to be avoided. Those are two different lessons.
[QUOTE][B]I know kids that were spanked with a belt, and they turned out fine.[/B][/QUOTE]
But you don't know if they turned out fine BECAUSE OF being spanked or DESPITE being spanked (emphasis is placed on those words for a reason). There is no way to know, since the spanking had already been applied in the past.
[QUOTE][B]spanking a kid doesn't teach them violence is OK, unless you beat them for no reason. Thus why I stated you have to tell them what they did wrong before and after the spanking. THAT sends the correct message.[/B][/QUOTE]
Of course it teaches kids that violence is okay. Parents who spank are using violence and the physical pain/discomfort resulting from that violence as a negative reinforcement to curb their child's bad behavior. Are the parents right or wrong in using that violence (and yes, spanking is violence) towards that goal?
Even if spanking is used for applications in which you think it's appropriate, if the application of violence as a negative reinforcement is right/correct, then the parents ARE teaching the child that violence is right and correct. After all, they are applying pain/discomfort via violence in a means they consider to be right/correct.
If the application of violence as a negative reinforcement is incorrect, then the parents are teaching the child that violence is wrong and incorrect, but still a tactic they can and/or should use in life.
[QUOTE][B]and did I mention spanking is to be reserved for only the worse offences? (Well...worse being subjective. I mean, spanking a kid that just shot a fellow student is WAYYYY to weak. but it's also far to much for say, failing to do your homeword.... [/B][/QUOTE]
The bad behavior for which spanking is reserved as a punishment really doesn't matter, as the lesson of the utility of violence as a response to disagreement or disagreeable behavior is still being taught.