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Buda5/SW Multiplayer? ... possible with input from MajorTom
Roi Danton
Moderator
There is be an upcoming cooperation with the I-War 2 Mulitplayer Guru MajorTom (What Rocks, Epic Online), who is working on a StarWars Mulitplayer mod.
I think for many people it would be nice to fly against each other with Babylon5 ships (like it is requested in our public forum).
About more detailed information we have to speak still but I think thats a good way to get realized a Buda5 (and StarWars) Mulitplayer although our time is limited.
STILL MODELLERS FOR STARWARS MODELS ARE NEEDED! :)
[url=http://ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=377192]Link to the thread in the I-War 2 forum.[/url]
I think for many people it would be nice to fly against each other with Babylon5 ships (like it is requested in our public forum).
About more detailed information we have to speak still but I think thats a good way to get realized a Buda5 (and StarWars) Mulitplayer although our time is limited.
STILL MODELLERS FOR STARWARS MODELS ARE NEEDED! :)
[url=http://ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=377192]Link to the thread in the I-War 2 forum.[/url]
Comments
I don't see any serious issues that would stop a Buda5 mp mod.
The models are very well done. and show in the MP game just as well as in SP (even the jumpgate). Redoing the ship .ini files to a multiplayer compatable "Prefitted" version is just a matter of work (I Think...)
All the ships I've looked at to date seem to be based on prefitted anyhow. The weapon nulls seem to be specified at the actual weapon position and not as hardpoints that require subsims to fill a gap. Is that always the case?
Balancing ship weapons and speed is key to MP mods. The more ships and the more weapons involved the more work, and there are a lot of B5 ships ;)
How can we find out if there is really enough interest in a Buda5 MP mod to credit doing the work?
One of which should probably be a "utility" type 2 ship for playing the engineer roll.
For the player base,:
we could use standard B5 stations (they only need dockports and a couple of realistically placed weapon nulls).
Or, as an alternative 2 large carrier type ships that would be placed as stationary objects on the map.
The work would be to set up the ship and weapon ini files and structure them together with the other supporting files (avatars, lws ect.) in a seperate mod folder, made specially for the MP game.
We can use the basic mod structure like in the EpicOnline and What_rocks mod, so I would guess maybe 6-8 hrs per ship to copy files and put them in a, for the MP game useable, structure.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MajorTom [/i]
[B]yes, definatly, we could just start out with just 4 or 5 ships for the player to select from.[/b][/quote]We should begin with fighters.
[u]Fighters:[/u][list][*]EA StarFury[*]EA Thunderbolt[*]EA Black Omega StarFury[*]Centauri Sentri[*]Drakh Fighter[*]Narn Frazi[*]Narn Gorith (Bomber)[*]Minbari Flyer[*]Raider Fighter[*](Shadow Figher)[*](Vorlon Fighter)[/list]The Minbari Nial have problems with his beams, they don't shoot.
[u]Utility ship:[/u]
7Tango7
[u]Player base:[/u]
Babylon5 Station? I think, it has no dockports and also no weapon nulls. But that shouldn't be the problem when the modeller lurks here still. :)
The alternative would be the EA Explorer ship but it hasn't released officially yet and it hasn't any weapon nulls, too.
[u]Questions to the ships file structure:[/u]
For Buda5 it would be good to leave the Ship Pack like it is and just make a new Ship INI Pack, so the ones who already have Buda5 don't have to download a complete new shippack (~170MB). That goal is reachable when we just update ini and lws files.
So in EO and WhatRocks some lws files are in the separate mulitplayer folder you mentioned ([i]sims\multiplayer[/i]), so you don't put the lws files in the avatars folder.
First question: Why you did this? Just due to a better overview? I mean there are no equal files in the avatars folder so you could have put the lws files in the avatars folder, too.
Second questions: The updated lws files you need mainly for the turrets?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Roi Danton [/i]
[B] We should begin with fighters.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Thats fine
[QUOTE]
[u]Player base:[/u]
Babylon5 Station? I think, it has no dockports and also no weapon nulls. But that shouldn't be the problem when the modeller lurks here still. :)
The alternative would be the EA Explorer ship but it hasn't released officially yet and it hasn't any weapon nulls, too.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I said weapon nulls but it only needs 1!
A station can only have one AI turret and one point defense turret (in Multiplayer). It will need 2 or 3 dockports because the players dock there to repair and re-arm ammo weapons.
[u]Questions to the ships file structure:[/u]
[QUOTE]
For Buda5 it would be good to leave the Ship Pack like it is and just make a new Ship INI Pack, so the ones who already have Buda5 don't have to download a complete new shippack (~170MB). That goal is reachable when we just update ini and lws files.
[/QUOTE]
this may or may not work , because the server app cannot read the mods folder. the whole MP part has to be self contained in a folder whose name (say we call it "B5_mp_mod") is set in the search_paths in flux.ini.
It would be necessary for the player to extract his ShipPack to the "B5_mp_mod") folder. Which could be a source of many errors?
[QUOTE]
So in EO and WhatRocks some lws files are in the separate mulitplayer folder you mentioned ([i]sims\multiplayer[/i]), so you don't put the lws files in the avatars folder.
First question: Why you did this? Just due to a better overview? I mean there are no equal files in the avatars folder so you could have put the lws files in the avatars folder, too.
Second questions: The updated lws files you need mainly for the turrets? [/QUOTE]
There was no real reason for this, except they were easier to access during development. Yes we could put them in the avatars folder. (actually they should have been, but I never got around to doing it)
The updated .lws files are for better dockport alignment and in some cases for size scaling. On the casino station, they're changed to allow for customized iluminated billboard images and text. Turrets are placed per ini file on a convient null (where avaliable)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MajorTom [/i]
[B]this may or may not work , because the server app cannot read the mods folder. the whole MP part has to be self contained in a folder whose name (say we call it "B5_mp_mod") is set in the search_paths in flux.ini.
It would be necessary for the player to extract his ShipPack to the "B5_mp_mod") folder. Which could be a source of many errors?[/b][/quote]Well, that [i]could[/i] be a source of many errors due to the unknown component "the player" who has to do this ;) .
Nevertheless, it also depends on the ships we include. If we're using just these fighters it is okay when we include their files directly in the Mod Paket.
So under these circumstances I suggest to include the ships in the Mod Pack.
Furthermore the StarWars models will also need many MB's so heeding the design and troubleshooting aspects it's better to include ALL used ship in the Mod Pack.
If its size will be 100MB or 200MB doesn't matter so much.
Maybe additional ships could be supported in updates later (if requested).
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MajorTom [/i]
[B]A station can only have one AI turret and one point defense turret (in Multiplayer). It will need 2 or 3 dockports because the players dock there to repair and re-arm ammo weapons.[/B][/QUOTE]This morning I wrote to Logic, the modeller of the Bab5 station, hoping that he have time to manage it. There are some design probs due to the multiple dockports but they should be resolvable.
[u]Progress question:[/u]
How far is the progress with the general SW MP scripts? (if you have time for writing: what major problems exists (if) and what features or "must-code" isn't implemented yet?)
Or do you just wait for our station?
So when the testing of the ships and the "fitting" (appropriate english word?) of their ini files can be started approximately?
On the SW mod progress, we've added several features:
1) "real" Bombs for the B-Wing:
You drop one by pressing a key. It is propelled at the currently selected target by AI, then after 5 secs. the AI is turned off and the bomb continues in a straight line at the speed the bomber had when he launched it.
That, way it actually takes skill for a bomber pilot to hit his target ;)
2) We've added a Engineer bot ship that works like in Freespace2.
You can call it by pressing a key. It will come to your ship and dock with you to re-arm and repair your ship.
This function is limited: it is only avaliable if there are less than 4 players on the map, Because you would normally have, or should have, a player in the engineer roll if there are more than 4 players. The bot engineer is not capable of deploying sentry turrets (mini Gunstars) like a player engineer can.
3) we've also added a function the limits the players loadout when he re-spawns after death. It reads the players loadout at the time of death and gives him exactly the amount of missiles/ammo he had when he died.
That puts a stop to getting killed on purpose just so you get full magazines again.
Those functions are all tried and tested now!
4) We also have a turret mockup working for the Falcon. when you press the keybind to switch to your turret, your weapons are activated and you get a different cockpit. when you press the keybind again you're back in the standard EOC cockpit.
We would like to change the player angle of view when he's in the turret but this doesn't seem possible?
Besides that we have one other problem:
Have you ever found a way to address the dll functions directly? (like for example icDirector.ExternalCamera) or to "press" a key for the player?
That would solve an issue with the X-Wing animation which is annoying:
If you don't "look" at your wings they don't animate even though you have set the animation channel per pog. This means you can actuate the wings, hear the sounds and get the speed decrease but, they don't actually move until you use F3 for an external view of your ship.
The issue is: you may use F3 several seconds or even minutes after you have actuated the wings. It is odd to see them start to move then.
To fix this, we wanted to use iDirector and switch to an external view when the wings activate. The problem is, switching to iDirector will stop the ship dead in it's tracks! So, when the external view is over after 3 secs. the ship is stopped and you have to re-apply throttle (and may get shot in the meantime)
If you use F3 your ship is not stopped, so I tried intercepting the F3 keybind. That works, but you have to switch back to the hud with F1 manually. If I set a timer and use iDirector to switch back to the hud, the ship is stopped again.
I would need to access that function directly. (icDirector.ExternalCamera) and the function icDirector.InternalCamera, but can't figure out how. Any ideas?
[B]Whats the problem with dockport nulls? Are there no docking arms or docking surfaces on the model?[/b][/quote]In Babylon5 ships docking "inside" cap ships/stations. So on the Buda5 models is just an entrance to the docking bay, but no docking bay itself modelled (it would be inside the ship). So either there will be a docking bay (but thats not good for gameplay -> long time for docking (if its possible at all) and a lot of work for the modeller) or docking ports outside the station near the entrance to the docking bay. Thats not quite "B5-like" but better for gameplay and easier to realize.
[QUOTE][B]We would like to change the player angle of view when he's in the turret but this doesn't seem possible?[/b][/quote]I don't think so b/c the settings are read out from the flux.ini in the section [icInternalCamera].
(we tested it with other settings some time ago b/c we wanted to get a better visual feeling -> disadvantage: quality and precision of controlling of the ship decreases)
[u]S-Foil-Problem[/u]:
We never tried to press a key for the player nor to adress the dll functions directly.
So I don't have a solution like you requested but maybe a hint:
Have you tried to enable AI for the player ship during iDirector?
[i]hship iCutsceneUtilities.EnablePlayerAutopilot();[/i]
I don't tested it for myself but after you read out the actually speed and direction of the player ship you could hand over these settings on the Player AI ship during the iDirector cutscene (see iCutsceneUtilities for more).
Well I don't know if the Player Autopilot works in Multiplayer.
Maybe you don't need the Autopilot and can set the velocity also without an AI control?
[code]// get the Speed
float Sim.Speed( hsim sim );
// better with:
float Object.VectorPropertyX( hobject o,
string property ); //same for y,z
// set Speed
void Sim.SetVelocityLocalToSim( hsim sim, //Set the speed relatively to ships direction
float x,
float y,
float z );[/code]It's not a smart way but perhaps it works.
If you are outside of the bay, the docking autopilot may find the bay, but more often than not it just circles the ship.
This may be dependent on the actual ship/collision hull design. A ship with a wide, open docking bay on the side would probably be better than the SD with it's long triangular form and the box shaped docking bay on the bottom.
Maybe we could put the dockports inside one of the B5 ships!
Roi, Thanks for the ideas on the SFoil issue, I've already tried reading and resetting the velocity like you suggested, but at the end of the external scene, where you have to call iDirector.End(); it always stops the ship dead! Even though I set the velocity after calling iDirector.End();
It's easy to get into the external view without stopping the ship, by intercepting the F3 keybind. Once there, if you press F1 manually to get back to the cockpit, that also works without stopping the ship
All I need is to find a way to get from F3 back to the cockpit view, via pog, without calling iDirector.Beginn (); and iDirector.End ();
But, that seems impossible :mad:
[B]Maybe we could put the dockports inside one of the B5 ships![/b][/quote]That would be really cool, but for this we need the help of modellers to add a docking bay to the station first. I still get no answer to my request, continue trying to get in contact with him.