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Was B5 compromised?
When reading though the fact-file on the lurkers guide site, I came across this quote:
[JMS]
[QUOTE] I'm being very careful not to let B5 turn into a *franchise*. It's a
story, created in X-parts, for television. This thing will turn into an
industry over my dead body. The most that the framework will permit is a
2-hour TV movie that caps year 5. That's it.
[/QUOTE]
Ok... So B5 from the get-go had some problems mainly the TV studio's. When they replaced the lead at the end of series one they basically completely fucked the entire B5 concept.
I want to ask, imagine what it COULD have been if that change wasn't made. A 5 Year epic where at the end (of the 5 years..) the lead though the entire series goes back in time and starts this again. If you read these early Docs he does kind of hint at this (JMS).
You can really see B5 collapsing in series 5 because it had no more story line, not the main one anyway... they created this sketchy "First Year of alliance" bit that never really worked, the only good thing in Series 5 was the ending (good ending).
As I see it this was the ORIGINAL concept:
- 'The beginning'
- Sinclair goes to B5
- Everyone Gets friendly
- B4 first one...
- Narn / Centauri story...
- Coming up to the shadow war
- Shadow war
- Earth War
- Travels back in time
And with more relevant content to the actual overall story thrown in.
Also this guy infected the entire population of earth just to make the series a franchise, talk about stepping on your own feet. As a small side note: Legend of the rangers is the dumbest show ever made with "I live for the one I die...." being said every second line of the script :rolleyes: and Crusade had promise (it really did!!) but they killed it too early. I think they went a little to mystic for the general public with the first few shows, they should have kept the first 20~ episodes simple (look at the current series of enterprise to see what I mean, the current story is almost identical to Crusade).
[JMS]
[QUOTE] I'm being very careful not to let B5 turn into a *franchise*. It's a
story, created in X-parts, for television. This thing will turn into an
industry over my dead body. The most that the framework will permit is a
2-hour TV movie that caps year 5. That's it.
[/QUOTE]
Ok... So B5 from the get-go had some problems mainly the TV studio's. When they replaced the lead at the end of series one they basically completely fucked the entire B5 concept.
I want to ask, imagine what it COULD have been if that change wasn't made. A 5 Year epic where at the end (of the 5 years..) the lead though the entire series goes back in time and starts this again. If you read these early Docs he does kind of hint at this (JMS).
You can really see B5 collapsing in series 5 because it had no more story line, not the main one anyway... they created this sketchy "First Year of alliance" bit that never really worked, the only good thing in Series 5 was the ending (good ending).
As I see it this was the ORIGINAL concept:
- 'The beginning'
- Sinclair goes to B5
- Everyone Gets friendly
- B4 first one...
- Narn / Centauri story...
- Coming up to the shadow war
- Shadow war
- Earth War
- Travels back in time
And with more relevant content to the actual overall story thrown in.
Also this guy infected the entire population of earth just to make the series a franchise, talk about stepping on your own feet. As a small side note: Legend of the rangers is the dumbest show ever made with "I live for the one I die...." being said every second line of the script :rolleyes: and Crusade had promise (it really did!!) but they killed it too early. I think they went a little to mystic for the general public with the first few shows, they should have kept the first 20~ episodes simple (look at the current series of enterprise to see what I mean, the current story is almost identical to Crusade).
Comments
I don't really see how the entire concept was "fucked" just because Sinclair was replaced with Sheriden as leader of B5. I don't see it at all.
I don't think you quite understand the difference between a franchise and what jms does with B5. A franchise is something like ST, where a whole bunch of writers write their little ideal ST stories, which then get made into episodes and strung together loosely. B5 is completely controlled by jms, he has an entire galactic history worked out. Everything has a place.
[B]don't be to strong against the newcomer, he doesn't know better, he is, after all, one of the younger races. [/B][/QUOTE]
i wanna say that! when do i get to say that?:D :p
i agree it worked out fine in the end, but ive always wondered how B5 would have turned out had O'Hare stayed, at least as u say croxis abit into season 2, tho i wouldnt have minded having him show up a few more times than just 'War Without End'
[B]B5's story was weak in season 5 because jms did not know when writing season 4 if he would get season 5, so he had to squeeze two seasons into one. I actually think the first year of the alliance thing worked quite well.
[/B][/QUOTE]
i think if Sinclair had stayed, the series would have been canceled after season 2, I don't think that he could have pulled off the same series with him as the lead.
The only complaint i have about B5 is really that they had to basically finish the series in season 4, since htey didn't know that there would be a season 5, if they knew that, then i think that season 4 would have been the end of the shadow war, and season 5 would have been a full season dedicated to the war on Clark.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Entil'Zha [/i]
[B]The only complaint i have about B5 is really that they had to basically finish the series in season 4, since htey didn't know that there would be a season 5, if they knew that, then i think that season 4 would have been the end of the shadow war, and season 5 would have been a full season dedicated to the war on Clark. [/B][/QUOTE]
That was the original plan, and it would have been pretty cool.
[B]don't be to strong against the newcomer, he doesn't know better, he is, after all, one of the younger races. [/B][/QUOTE]
Just because he's new to this forum doesn't mean he's new to B5. There's no need to condescend.
[B]Aye, that it is. :)
That was the original plan, and it would have been pretty cool. [/B][/QUOTE]
I know, it would have been awesome, i think the Shadow War would have been pretty close to the way it turned out anyway, but a full season dedicated to the war with earth, oh it would have been Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good.
I mean i LOVE season 4, but as good as it was, if they din't have to rush to get the whole story in. it could have been even better.
I think the story turned out better when Sinclair left. It made room for the story to evolve and for us to find out that he was the great Valen. I don't think this would've happend if he'd stayed. And I personally preferred Sheridons (Bruces) acting for one thing. I found O' Hare abit wooden.
[B]You guys must admit, it was pretty crappy how they had that massive build up to the half-shadow half earthforce ships and then the entire battle was over with one fleet of white stars (one word?) and in one episode. [/B][/QUOTE]
No, not really. Firstly, the whitestars were designed to fight shadow ships, so they should do quite well against earth ships using the same tech. Secondly, there were a lot of whitestars. Finally, I don't really think there was that much of a "huge" build up to the ambush. All they really said was that it was some advanced destroyers being led by Clark loyalists (so they wouldn't surrender at all). No doubt if the Earth civil war had been in the 5th season, the battle would have gone on a bit longer, but I think it turned out fine just the way it is.
Interesting views in the discussion, even if it is a bit pointless itself ;) - no pun intended.
It's just that the course of history can be changed - in the here and now. Which is exactly what happened.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MartianDust [/i]
[B]I found O' Hare abit wooden. [/B][/QUOTE]
I understand what you mean. Still I found him to be a good actor for the role. I always wanted to know why he seemed so "otherworldly". Funny, that with the changes in storyline, that answer was given (if you don't get the feeling during the show, then read "To Dream in the City of Sorrows", that'll change it).
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Language of Hope [/i]
[B]
I understand what you mean. Still I found him to be a good actor for the role. I always wanted to know why he seemed so "otherworldly". Funny, that with the changes in storyline, that answer was given (if you don't get the feeling during the show, then read "To Dream in the City of Sorrows", that'll change it). [/B][/QUOTE]
His acting was better when he was Valen somehow. I not heard of this book though title does sound familiar!
To allay a popular myth: Season 4 wasn't compressed as much as people here seem to think it was. In particular, the Shadow war ended exactly where it was going to end anyway; JMS didn't start accounting for the possible lack of a season 5 until closer to midway into the season. Even then, it wasn't so much a matter of taking all the events that would have occurred in season 5 and trying to squish them into season 4; it was more a matter of not laying the groundwork for all the different season 5 plotlines, which then freed him to focus more on the EA civil war story.
I imagine the Minbari civil war would have had considerable more focus if he knew for sure that there was going to be a season 5, but that's probably where most of the story compression occurs.
[quote][i]Originally posted by [url="http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/084.html"]jms[/url][/i]
[b]I don't usually comment on this, but...if I had known *with absolute certainty* that there would be a season 5, then season 4 would have ended with 418, "Intersections in Real Time." So you only pull 4 episodes forward, really. You'll understand when you see it.[/b][/quote]
As the above post says, Season 4 would have ended with Intersection in Real Time and there would have been another 3 ongoing-battle episodes that would have been between Racing Mars and the Face of the Enemy. Season 5 would then have roughly been - Between the Darkness and Light, Endgame, Rising Star, The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari, The Paragon of Animals, A View from the Gallery, In the Kingdom of the Blind and Phoenix Rising, reducing the telepath arc to 2 or 3 episodes.
And you probably know this, but Marcus would have stayed if JMS had known that Claudia was going to leave.
So it looks like everything was still there, but the War made shorter and the Telepath arc made longer.
On another note, listening to the DVD commentary for the start of Seaosn 2, JMS gives the impression that Sinclair wasn't going to be in it anyway, as he felt that to give him the story that was going to happen to Sheridan was just too much to give Sinclair on top of his current Story.
Hope you fin this useful.
Cheers.
[B]I could have handled 2 to 3 episodes of Byron much better. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
Spoiler: Yeah, but somehow I really felt happy when he died.:)
[B] Spoiler: Yeah, but somehow I really felt happy when he died.:) [/B][/QUOTE]
Didn't we all? :D
[B]I agree a little less Byron goes a long way. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
I met him at a con once, he was a very quiet guy.
Rewatching S5 and am enjoying more this time round.