[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Bekenn [/i]
[B]...Except that I seem to recall JMS saying somewhere that the great machine was built in the last thousand years. I'll have to see if I can dig up the quote later, when I have more time. [/B][/QUOTE]
[quote]<Was the Great Machine built by a member race of the First
Ones?>
Could be.
jms[/quote]
[quote] Philip Hornsey <74053.2101@compuserve.com> asks:
> Are Varn's People First Ones (I *believe* you said they were
> not)? Was the Great Machine built by a race of First Ones or by
> Varn's People? Is the Great Machine capable of seeing *everywhere*
> or can it be blocked (by say the Shadows or Vorlon)?
No, Varn's people aren't first ones...and the machine can be
blocked.
jms[/quote]
[quote] (blocked) asks:
> Was he referring to Lyta's contact with the "eye" above Z'hadum?
> Was the "eye" a part of the Shadow's consiousness?
> If not, will we ever find out what it was?
> Although I have some reservations about both the Shadows and
> Vorlons suddenly reverting into whiney, frightened 3-year olds
> (You're not going to leave us all alone are you?
You may not find out who built the Great Machine in the series,
but that will be one of the features of one of the planned TNT movies.
And there will be more on the Valen/Sinclair transformation as well.
jms[/quote]
Well... now, [i]that[/i] one's interesting. Given the date of the message (Feb 9, 1997), it looks like he's talking about a dropped Thirdspace plot thread there, which kinda implies two possibilities:
1) It was built by Vorlons
2) It was built by the Thirdspace aliens
All in all, I think it makes the most sense to treat this as further evidence for my Vorlon theory, as we simply don't know much about the Thirdspace folks, except to say that they're old, powerful, and (most relevant to this discussion) not from around these parts.
i remember from B5 season 3, Ep 16 War Without End (the two parter) when the captain and his crew go back to still B4, Delen tells Sheriden that the great machine has been there for 500 years. might want to check me if im wrong but im sure she says this, so the first ones theory could be wrong. plus the shadow's would'nt build it after there defeat so i have to agree with the vorlon guess in preparing for the next war.
also just had a brain wave, the great machine could be vorlon/minbari design. why? well sinclair know's who will be controlling the great machine when it comes to aid the war the vorlons have the tech and minbari have to operate the machine. just a thought
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Panic_Attack [/i]
[B]also just had a brain wave, the great machine could be vorlon/minbari design. why? well sinclair know's who will be controlling the great machine when it comes to aid the war the vorlons have the tech and minbari have to operate the machine. just a thought [/B][/QUOTE]
nah, sorry i dont buy that. if thats true, then why have a race of caretaker aliens looking after the place?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ShadowDancer [/i]
[B]nah, sorry i dont buy that. if thats true, then why have a race of caretaker aliens looking after the place? [/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed. If the Minbari had been involved, then there would be no reason for Delenn to be unaware of the great machine's existence in season 1.
but it might have been created by valen with the help of the vorlons and kept in secret, otherwise everyone would be fighting over it. valen would know that they would find it so does'nt need to tell everyone about it
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
point. but i still dont agree with u:p i mean, why not just leave another letter for delenn?
well i dunno... :confused: if your going to find out anyway might not need to tell them, whats the point in knowing your future when its gonna happen anyway
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by ShadowDancer [/i]
[B]point. but i still dont agree with u:p i mean, why not just leave another letter for delenn? [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, this information was probably in the letter we saw her get in WWE.
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Panic_Attack [/i]
[B]well i dunno... :confused: if your going to find out anyway might not need to tell them, whats the point in knowing your future when its gonna happen anyway [/B][/QUOTE]
because then they would have been able to avoid the fight with the aliens and therefore not have to kill them which i think Valen would have prefered
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Panic_Attack [/i]
[B]:p [/B][/QUOTE]
you just like arguing!;)
RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
The problem was, that the rest of the minbari (including the grey council) had lost the faith in valen's prophecies. So if there was a letter that claimed to be by valen, that said the humans were important, no one would have believed that (except Dukhat, Delenn and a few others, but not enough), but the trilumiari reaction to sinclair sold the idea to the majority of the grey council.
If there had been a letter, then there wouldn't have been an Earth-Minbari war, thus no testing of sinclair.
Actually, Valen wanted to warn Dukhat and Delenn about the war, but the Vorlons prevented him, because he would create a huge paradox, as Babylon 4 would likely never be built.
RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by David of Mac [/i]
[B]..., as Babylon 4 would likely never be built. [/B][/QUOTE]
or any babylonstation, for that matter
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RubberEagle [/i]
[B]The problem was, that the rest of the minbari (including the grey council) had lost the faith in valen's prophecies. So if there was a letter that claimed to be by valen, that said the humans were important, no one would have believed that (except Dukhat, Delenn and a few others, but not enough), but the trilumiari reaction to sinclair sold the idea to the majority of the grey council.
If there had been a letter, then there wouldn't have been an Earth-Minbari war, thus no testing of sinclair. [/B][/QUOTE]
true, but thats assuming that the letter was delivered before the war
Comments
[B]...Except that I seem to recall JMS saying somewhere that the great machine was built in the last thousand years. I'll have to see if I can dig up the quote later, when I have more time. [/B][/QUOTE]
till then im still right! :P
[quote]<Was the Great Machine built by a member race of the First
Ones?>
Could be.
jms[/quote]
[quote] Philip Hornsey <74053.2101@compuserve.com> asks:
> Are Varn's People First Ones (I *believe* you said they were
> not)? Was the Great Machine built by a race of First Ones or by
> Varn's People? Is the Great Machine capable of seeing *everywhere*
> or can it be blocked (by say the Shadows or Vorlon)?
No, Varn's people aren't first ones...and the machine can be
blocked.
jms[/quote]
[quote] (blocked) asks:
> Was he referring to Lyta's contact with the "eye" above Z'hadum?
> Was the "eye" a part of the Shadow's consiousness?
> If not, will we ever find out what it was?
> Although I have some reservations about both the Shadows and
> Vorlons suddenly reverting into whiney, frightened 3-year olds
> (You're not going to leave us all alone are you?
You may not find out who built the Great Machine in the series,
but that will be one of the features of one of the planned TNT movies.
And there will be more on the Valen/Sinclair transformation as well.
jms[/quote]
Well... now, [i]that[/i] one's interesting. Given the date of the message (Feb 9, 1997), it looks like he's talking about a dropped Thirdspace plot thread there, which kinda implies two possibilities:
1) It was built by Vorlons
2) It was built by the Thirdspace aliens
All in all, I think it makes the most sense to treat this as further evidence for my Vorlon theory, as we simply don't know much about the Thirdspace folks, except to say that they're old, powerful, and (most relevant to this discussion) not from around these parts.
That's all I could find on a casual search.
i remember from B5 season 3, Ep 16 War Without End (the two parter) when the captain and his crew go back to still B4, Delen tells Sheriden that the great machine has been there for 500 years. might want to check me if im wrong but im sure she says this, so the first ones theory could be wrong. plus the shadow's would'nt build it after there defeat so i have to agree with the vorlon guess in preparing for the next war.
[B]also just had a brain wave, the great machine could be vorlon/minbari design. why? well sinclair know's who will be controlling the great machine when it comes to aid the war the vorlons have the tech and minbari have to operate the machine. just a thought [/B][/QUOTE]
nah, sorry i dont buy that. if thats true, then why have a race of caretaker aliens looking after the place?
[B]nah, sorry i dont buy that. if thats true, then why have a race of caretaker aliens looking after the place? [/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed. If the Minbari had been involved, then there would be no reason for Delenn to be unaware of the great machine's existence in season 1.
[B]test [/B][/QUOTE]
[i]Seems[/i] to work. There is no indication of what Sanfam [i]really[/i] wanted to do here.
[B]point. but i still dont agree with u:p i mean, why not just leave another letter for delenn? [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, this information was probably in the letter we saw her get in WWE.
[B]well i dunno... :confused: if your going to find out anyway might not need to tell them, whats the point in knowing your future when its gonna happen anyway [/B][/QUOTE]
because then they would have been able to avoid the fight with the aliens and therefore not have to kill them which i think Valen would have prefered
[B]:p [/B][/QUOTE]
you just like arguing!;)
If there had been a letter, then there wouldn't have been an Earth-Minbari war, thus no testing of sinclair.
[B]..., as Babylon 4 would likely never be built. [/B][/QUOTE]
or any babylonstation, for that matter
[B]The problem was, that the rest of the minbari (including the grey council) had lost the faith in valen's prophecies. So if there was a letter that claimed to be by valen, that said the humans were important, no one would have believed that (except Dukhat, Delenn and a few others, but not enough), but the trilumiari reaction to sinclair sold the idea to the majority of the grey council.
If there had been a letter, then there wouldn't have been an Earth-Minbari war, thus no testing of sinclair. [/B][/QUOTE]
true, but thats assuming that the letter was delivered before the war