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I have to rant. GRR !
![Matt [Psionic]](http://firstones.net/forums/uploads/images/ships/neafuryomga.jpg)
Matt [Psionic]
Ranger
in Zocalo v2.0
Disclaimer: Contents eventually relate to 9/11, should probably offend some people.
Of all the sick, twisted, things to do... now, I'm pretty open minded about or freedoms, and that part of me says these guys can do what they want, and they can -- fine. They still should get smacked upside the head for it. We tried to save a game once, want to destroy one? GRR!
I know, none of the above will make sense until you read this:
[url]http://www.kinematic.org/911.html[/url]
Fortunately, there have been no updates in the last 4 months. Maybe someone shot them.
Of all the sick, twisted, things to do... now, I'm pretty open minded about or freedoms, and that part of me says these guys can do what they want, and they can -- fine. They still should get smacked upside the head for it. We tried to save a game once, want to destroy one? GRR!
I know, none of the above will make sense until you read this:
[url]http://www.kinematic.org/911.html[/url]
Fortunately, there have been no updates in the last 4 months. Maybe someone shot them.
Comments
I'm not sure what to think about this myself. It could be a tribute, or perhaps something more analytical than for entertainment. I'm curious how this'll work into the description regarding the media's influence.
mod for UT2k3.
The community HATED the idea anyway, there is very little support for this mod.
Regards,
Morden
[B]Personally, I hope the media doesn't get their hands on this story. They will twist it into a way of showing how evil and bad video games are, especially violent ones. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, the liberal media's fantastic at doing that, isn't it? ;)
Being an Airsofter our sport's always having to deal with moral panics about replica weaponry such as scaremongering, exagerration and downright lies in the press. Video games have had it worse though, and I can see your concern about how this game could just become fodder for more anti-video game hysteria. :(
Regards,
Morden
Reminds a bit the game Porrasturvat - Stair Dismount:
[url]http://taat.fi/taat/porrasturvat/[/url]
Well the name says it all
[B]it may sell, it may not. u don't have a right to judge them. if they wanna paint naked children on picures of the towers burning, tha'ts their perogative, u may not like it, i may not like it, but that's their freedom. [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey, I'm no liberal, or PC loony, I think that people should be able to do what they want in the confines of the law and human decency, and yes, the people who are making this game have the right to do so.
HOWEVER, I still think it is in bad taste. As a member of a society that in the majority would condemn this game, I feel I conversely, have the right to judge it, as with any other deviant act.
Regards,
Morden
[B]what's the problem here? people can have whatever opinions they want and express them any way they want. america is a capatalistic society, and they're capatalizing on a wel publicized event. [i]<snip>[/i] if someone wants to make money off of it... well that's their decision. it may sell, it may not. u don't have a right to judge them.[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, we [i]do[/i] have a right to judge them. That's part of what freedom of speech is all about: making judgments, and expressing them, secure in the knowledge that what you say cannot be used as a legal basis for imprisonment or fines.
Now, you're absolutely right in that this is a capitalistic society, and that they do indeed have the right to produce this game -- their freedom of speech -- and make money off of it.
But freedom of speech does not imply any guarantee of esteem or even of being heard (which is why, for instance, we can have things like the "do-not-call" list... companies have a right to advertize, but they don't have a right to force you to pay attention). All of which basically just means that we [i]can[/i] pass judgment, and whine, and complain, and even put pressure on the company to stop making the game -- but they are under no obligation to listen to us.
[B]Looks cool. Can't wait to play it :D
Reminds a bit the game Porrasturvat - Stair Dismount:
[url]http://taat.fi/taat/porrasturvat/[/url]
Well the name says it all [/B][/QUOTE]
What a nice game! :D
[B]But freedom of speech does not imply any guarantee of esteem or even of being heard (which is why, for instance, we can have things like the "do-not-call" list... companies have a right to advertize, but they don't have a right to force you to pay attention). All of which basically just means that we [i]can[/i] pass judgment, and whine, and complain, and even put pressure on the company to stop making the game -- but they are under no obligation to listen to us. [/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly.
Human society and the morals and values we share depend on a "collective conscience", ie. all of us generally feeling the same way about certain issues. (This includes the September 11th 2001 terrorist attacks.)
Because most of us don't agree with it, we have the right to pass judgement on it like with anything society doesn't feel is "right".
(Oh yeah, I studied Sociology at college when I was away.) ;)
Regards,
Morden
[B]Looks cool. Can't wait to play it :D
Reminds a bit the game Porrasturvat - Stair Dismount:
[url]http://taat.fi/taat/porrasturvat/[/url]
Well the name says it all [/B][/QUOTE]
you know, there was a UT2k3 mod of that as well...Lots of fun, especially since after you pushed them, they then fell down a pit with alot of beams for added points. :)
oh, and first person view ROCKED in that mod.
Why do people still make a big deal out of 9/11 after 2 year
I think we can keep this discussion on a civil level, but there will be many opportunities for a quick zinger or cut-down. Let's all listen to the better angels of our nature, so to speak.
That said, LogicSequence, you're logic faills in that you are assuming that "your beleifs are no more better or true or right than any one elses" is a fact. That is your opinion, not a fact. By your own logic, it is no more valid than the other extreme "My beliefs are infinitely better than everyone elses".
As a society, we have established in laws and customs those beliefs which we deem "to be self-evident". To be a productive member of the society, you must respect these beliefs, even if you don't believe them to be entirely true. Western culture has added the concept that there should be protection those who don't subscribe to the same beliefs, as well as a means to change those beliefs through public discourse. This is never quick or painless, but it is possible (e.g., the issue of slavery in American history). The idea here is "You and I may never determine which belief is the true belief, nor will we ever be able to coerce the other into a single believe. We will at times be required to agree to disagree, and agree not to kill each other over our differences"
I guess everyone has to begin with a set of assumptions and opinions; just keep this in mind when criticizing others for not matching up to your ideals.
[B]and what u consider a "deviant" act other's might not. everything is relative. u can have an opinion on anything, but have not the right to judge anyone. u can dislike them or whatever, but i feel no person has any right to judge another. life is a set of actions and reactions. all this moral high ground conservative bull shit is just that BULL SHIT. get into the 21st century. u're values are your values fine, but recognize they're not everyones and u can't force them on others. even if your beleifs are the majority that's no difference. your beleifs are no more better or true or right than any one elses. just b/c "christian" values are the majority in the US doesn't mean they are deemed "right" or "better" than any other values. and that's what's wrong with the current gov... trying to make these christian values the standard and have special treatment. that's not right. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes a lot of deviance is relative, [b]minor[/b] deviance. Other, more significant acts of deviance such as rape and murder are [i]universally[/i] condemned by society.
Your view that we "don't have the right to judge anybody" is clearly post-modernist in sociological terms.
But what about people who's acts anger or violate society such as murderers or terrorists? If you stuck by the "no right to judge anybody" stance, these people would go unpunished. The law [b]works[/b] on a series of judgements, and it holds our society together. If people saw that because we couldn't judge eachother, these people could get away with their acts, society would break down.
If you want it in simple terms, society functions because we DO have a collective moral high-ground on a number of majority issues. Yes, people have different INDIVIDUAL beliefs, but in the wider scope of society, they don't matter. It's the larger beliefs governing physical life and death that we ALL share that are important.
Judging someone is [i]not[/i] limited to conservatism or any one other socio-political point of view.
Everyone judges everybody else, and that's a fact of life. Marxists judge capitalism as cruel and unfair, and a lot of liberals judge political correctness as something to be encouraged. I judge both schools of thought as being idiotic, but that's just my point of view.
I am [i]not[/i] a practising Christian, and I reject organized religion. I have my opinions on the matter, but I don't want to voice them here. (That's better done in a pub after a few pints.) However, I accept that most of the morals and values we hold dear today DO originate from religious teachings such as those in the Bible.
LogicSequence, please look at what I'm trying to say, and like bobo said, keep the language civil.
Regards,
Morden
[B]Hmmmmm..... I just came up with a Rant...
Why do people still make a big deal out of 9/11 after 2 year [/B][/QUOTE]
seriously. I mean its a tragedy & all but damn its over. People on matrix forum whine about the trade centers being in the movie idiots forgot either what year the matrix came out or what year the trade centers came down. & what the hell its a movie. thats my rant.
[B]People on matrix forum whine about the trade centers being in the movie idiots forgot either what year the matrix came out or what year the trade centers came down. & what the hell its a movie. thats my rant. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree, that's why I hate political correctness, it just does my head in. People take some issues too far, and that's a good example of it.
We should measure our responses to events how WE feel they should be, not have them decided by people who think they know best like those on the Matrix Forums.
Regards,
Morden
Jake
Political correctness is one of the most annoying things about the modern world.
All and all, I'm proud of you guys, this has been a good discussion without undue flaming. Except the part about 'christian' beliefs... I'm an agnostic, don't lump me in just because I agree with some of their morals. Morality != Religion.
[B]Political correctness is one of the most annoying things about the modern world. [/B][/QUOTE]
We get plenty of the so called "do-gooders" over here in Britain.
A classic example is of when a liberal Headteacher at a primary school took hot-cross buns (a traditional Easter food) of the dinner menu at Easter, for fear their Christian context may "offend" the half-dozen Muslim children at the school.
Now, if this ignorent moron actually knew anything about Islam, they'd know that Jesus is acknowledged as a prophet of Allah in the Koran, and is considered a holy figure.
The result of the Headteacher's actions was ironically, an offended Muslim community who didn't apreciate being treated with "kid-gloves". ;)
Regards,
Morden