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Christians disturbs me...
Mundane
Elite Ranger
in Zocalo v2.0
Just watched a documentary "Dawkins - The Root of all Evil"
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Root_of_All_Evil%3F[/url]
Recommended.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Root_of_All_Evil%3F[/url]
Recommended.
Comments
First, in the absence of a god-based dogma, quite likely other dogma's would have formed (something that has happened time and time again). Dawkins seems to be arguing against a deity-based religion, but the problem has little to due with a deity and more to due with humanities willingness to accept certain "truths" without question.
Second, I would also argue that in many cases, early religous dogmas were often responsible for the sustainment and growth of humanity, not the restrainment as Dawkins implies. Looking back at the rules and structure formed by many of the early religous texts, and you will find many laws that are design to protect individuals and/or the community.
Jake
And the american Ted Haggard is just plain scary.
...or more importantly humanities willingness to misinterpret, manipulate, and use selective application of real truths.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mundane [/i]
[B]Well, yes, he says that there was a place for religion in earlier times. But I agree with him that today there is no reason to use religion to explain stuff instead of using science. [/B][/QUOTE]
I would argue that there is indeed a place for properly interpreted faith in the world we live in.
The bible I know is a far cry from what is practiced here and there. Hypocracy abounds, and the "wolves in sheep's clothing" are everywhere...
;)
These are examples of bad humans, not bad religion IMHO.
What bugs you about Christains exactly? The whole of Christianity is belife that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sins, and that through Him we have eternal life in heaven.
We also are commanded to love others, not just our friends, but our enemies as well. And to obey both the laws of God and the Laws of our government.
Soo...what about us disturbs you exactly? (Barring of course, the loonies such as those stated above that mearly say they are Christains, but quite obviously don't practice it at all)
back in my home town of ellon, there is a reverend who i consider to be one of the best examples of all that is good about humanity. if all people/religion was as good as he is, then the world would be a better place beyond measure.
I was shocked. When atheists had said things like "Religion was for explaining why the sun went down and has no place in a modern, rational world," and ignored me when I described the solace my philosophical and religious convictions gave me, I assumed it was just invective and an unwillingness to participate in a sincere exchange ideas (because, really, it is much more fun just to yell at each other). Until I read that suggestion, it hadn't occurred to me that there might've been an actual fundamental difference in ways of thinking between a relaxed, reasonable religious guy like me, and a relaxed, reasonable atheistic person. I thought they just had different answers to the same questions, not that they didn't have such questions at all.
But, really, that idea is so stupid and ignorant that it could only have come from someone who sincerely believed that the only purpose, the only origin of religion was that people decided there was a big invisible man in the sky because [i]someone[/i] had to be there, lifting up the sun in the morning and pulling it down at night.
So what we have here is a failure of communication. I don't know how to resolve it, myself. I have no doubt that if I even made an attempt to explain something so personal to Mr. Dawkins (for instance), he would just dismiss it as Voo Doo nonsense, the ravings of yet another poor deluded squishy machine that can't accept the mechanics of its own nature.
EDIT: Newsweek, not TIME. I can never remember which has what articles. Same with Popular Science and Popular Mechanics.
[B]Let's just wipe out human race and let the cockroaches solve it. [/B][/QUOTE]
well we'll probably end up wiping ourselves out eventually....
The problems I have with religion have become fairly clear to me recently. It is not the religion itself, but those who are insecure in their faith. When a member of a belief system does not fully adopt it, or simply feels that perhaps they might have made the wrong decision, chosen the wrong faith (perhaps just not having enough faith in said faith :p), they end up turning to others to reinforce their world view. If said others do not support and/or agree to it, they feel compelled to convert them, to "enlighten" them to their own beliefs system, to rationalize it in exactly the ways I described above as simply not being possible.
And no-one wants to admit they made the wrong choice, nor are some able to even conceive of it if they're born and raised to some particular belief.
I'm not going into politics, but I I don't think Anarchy is a system that'll ever work in world politics... but it's something that's desperately needed in worldwide religion.
Think about it, how many wars and disputes would cease if every single human being could publicly admit to their "sworn enemy", comrades or disbelievers, that they might have it wrong themselves? Ahh... utopia, always fun to play around with ideas that'll never happen.
But you know who has never questioned me? The pastor of this church. Hell, he gladly accepted it and moved on. I was prepared for a fight, equipped to defend myself against the proverbial sand being kicked in my proverbial face...but...nothing. He simply accepted it and moved on. Simple.
;)
"Christians" are called to witness about what their faith has done for them, not to go out into the world and save anyone's soul. They don't have that authority or power anyway, that is for Christ to do in the Christian faith.
Sounds like that pastor is practicing it correctly.
I look at my situation here now after a year of living in this Baptist Fundimentalist region, and after spending so many years in the liberal religious environment of California...
Although there are differences in the types of failures and faults in the people I come across, there are many similarities to the reasons why.
It comes down to the human individual. Interpretation, motivation, and action...
Here, we have preachers who brow beat people in public conversation about TV and Television programming being evil, while when you visit their home, they have one hidining in a closed entertainment center.
When approached about it, they state it is used for the viewing of religious media.
Ok, so why do you assume everyone else isn't?
Hypocracy comes in many forms...
The one I abhor the most is the use of "Christianity" as Social status to fit in.
I consider myself a fundimentalist Christian, because I believe in the set of claims about Jesus being the Christ. I also believe that Science and Faith (of any kind, not just Christian) can co-exist and compliment each other.
Needless to say I am not accepted too closely in circles, but I think it's more about me being in control of my own thoughts and belief system that scare the hell out of them...
:D
Am I perfect? Hell no... Am I Christ like? Not as much as I would like to be...
I have a murderous heart that I am constantly comming to terms with (I'd never follow through obviously, but the natural man is still there in my life).
But then being a TRUE Christian is not about being perfect, it is about trying to be like Christ, even though I'll never attain it without his help.
What did Jesus do in his walk? He put down the cruelty of the established religious leaders of his time, he looked for the good in people, he sought to relieve them of the bonds of guilt, he ate, slept, and talked with those considered outcasts by everyone else, and in the Christian faith is believed to have paid a price for all of our faults that we could never pay.
How many so called Christians practice that?
"You will know them by their fruits..." is a very real and relevant verse in this discussion.
I imagine that the media twists on terms fries the beans of many Islamic believers as it does Christian believers...
And like A2597 says... there are extremists/fanatics/radicals on all sides and faiths, in Science, in religion, and most definately in politics.
I really am just fed up with the willie-nilly claim that most "Christians" (in the USA anyway) hold to.
Look at what they do, not at what they say...
;)
Well, the child molester was, as was the guy who was most likely a rapist. The murderer was just plain cracked, he's permantly loged in a high security mental health ward.
On the other hand Ive also met people whos belief in "science" was also dogmatic. In that I mean their particular science, or the results they perticularly choose to believe, and they basicly ignored any counter evidence, or the weakness of their data.
I still think emotion and how we feel about things plays a larger point in what people believe then anybody wants to admit.
I imagine a fair number of rapist, murderers, etc are Aetheist, not because being an aetheist makes them that way, but because they do not want to think that they will be held accountable for their actions once they die.
If they belived in God, then most people would also belive in heaven and hell...and knowing that one would be much more wary of commiting such acts. But if you don't belive in God, and all you have is the here and now and when we die, thats it...then it doesn't seem so bad.
[B]Zealots of any stripe disturb me. [/B][/QUOTE]
As they should...
;)
[B]"Never trust philosophers..." [/B][/QUOTE]
Though, talk long enough and it will be revealed that neither you nor anything else actually exists, so it's all moot anyway. :p
[B]Exactly! Therefor I can smack all of you with a frying pan and it wont matter! [/B][/QUOTE]
because....matter doesn't exist?
I had a Poli Sci prof specilizing in law say that relativists in her class should prove their point by jumping out the window...
We were on the third floor of Lincoln Hall, north side of the building, overlooking the park blocks, That would be quite a drop wouldnt it? :D
[B]Bingo. I want to meet one of those people who believe everything is a figment of their imagination, bitch slap them, and tell them they must have very little control over their imagination ^.^ [/B][/QUOTE]
lol, thats a good one.
[B]I had a Poli Sci prof specilizing in law say that relativists in her class should prove their point by jumping out the window...
We were on the third floor of Lincoln Hall, north side of the building, overlooking the park blocks, That would be quite a drop wouldnt it? :D [/B][/QUOTE]Considering there's propably nothing critical/valuable inside hat racks that drop might not be enough.
[B]Sanfam I do think you may have hit the nail more on the head than previous attempts. THe insecurity issues is the exact same thing that comes up with sexuality (and I am not just talking about orientation). Those who have doubts or fear will lash out with vilolence or make a very large display of their fath/sexuality. [/B][/QUOTE] I defineatly fall under croxis' logic here! ONWARD NAKED.
[url]http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2006/01/more_evil.html[/url]
Take a look at that one...
Christophobe ?
Good point Crox.
makes bloody good sense