[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh [/i]
[B](Spoiler inside)Hmm, I must have missed something, how does Gaius know there are twelve models when he asks her about the final five? [/B][/QUOTE]
No need to spoiler that really :) Way back in the miniseries. When Six confeses she's a cylon, she says to him "there are 12 cylon models, I'm number six."
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Arethusa [/i]
[B] Spoiler: No, the hybrid, like the raiders, centurions, etc is not one of the twelve. They're something else, it seems, but presumably "human" like the seven so far.
The base ships aren't so bad in the corridors, but I agree they're quite terrible in the command area. Hopefully we'll soon see the end of that with the projection stuff.
Overall, this was a lot stronger than Collaborators. Hopefully they'll keep this up. So far, this season has completely restored my faith in the show after the mess that came towards the end of season 2 (seriously, the person who wrote Black Market should be fucked to death). [/B][/QUOTE]
Spoiler: yeah I agree the corridors arent that bad. I thought the concept of the corridors being repetitive and unhuman like was quite brilliant, only a michine could really navigate through them. Do they need so much light though? I mean, I think the cylons could invent a better light bulb instead of having hundred of little small ones. The cylon CIC though was a little bit underwhelming visually. It really looked like it came right out of an old science fiction show with all the lights and leds. The sets seemed a little rushed and had a slight hint of cheese which they usually do pretty good job of avoiding.
And yes, this season looks like its going to be really strong throughout. Mostly because I think they realized not hashing out and developing an arc really let the show start going off course. Seems RDM and DE finally have a solid idea of where the story is going this time. You can tell in season two, the first half was really closing of all of season one. Once all that was resolved they sort of ran out of ideas and went into auto magic mode with no clear goal.
Spoiler: Well, maybe the FX budget was focused more on the CG than the sets...
It could also be a joint projection to confuse/subdue Baltar and his knowledge of the operations of the base star/cylons while he is aboard.
It was interesting how the male cylon had an odd look on his face when he passed Six and Baltar in the corridor when Six was projecting the forest path rather than the metal corridor.
I also found it interesting that Six didn't mention the alien object in the infected Base Star.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JackN [/i]
[B] Spoiler:
I also found it interesting that Six didn't mention the alien object in the infected Base Star. [/B][/QUOTE]
Spoiler: He's alive by a thread. Letting out that he was hiding something would have certainly tipped the scales against him. For all her change of attitude she still doesn't want him dead
[Spoiler]Regarding the unseen Cylon models I wonder if they are the real power/direction behind the Cylon race? I've been thinking about this and think it may go right back to the beginning.
Humans made Cylons. Cylons rebelled and we had the first Cylon War. Now I assume that the old Centurions were based on earlier designs and did the tasks they were assigned by humans. So if these models were self aware and formed part of the rebellion then something must have changed later on for the Centurions to become what they are now... simple foot soldiers who can be reprogrammed by any of the skin jobs. So that makes me wonder if there is a core group of original Cylons behind the scenes. There was that comment by 6 in the pilot (think it was then) where she said the old Centurions were obsolete, i.e. the models we are familiar with from the original series. But were all of them made obsolete? Perhaps in the early days of the rebellion and the war there were higher ranking Cylons who ran the show, much like the skin jobs run the show now. But maybe there is little left over from the old days especially when they moved to organic designs.
But then if the unseen 5 are human cylons after all then that blows it out of the water. Maybe its something the spin off series will reveal when ever that gets going.
Anyway maybe I've been thinking about it too much :D [/Spoiler]
Spoiler: Well then there is the comment in this last one made by the negro skin job who said it was innevitable that they would face a virus threat when taking on the human form.
Something that's been nagging me for a while is the constant need to follow the humans. Sure they said that the humans might return one day to erradicate the cylons from the colonies, and that was a threat they had to try and squelch, but this almost seems a religious thing now. They get further and further from the colonies which are still occupied, but yet they are following Galactica and the humans, with reincarnation ships in tow etc...
Speaking of religion, now that the "child of two races" is in cylon hands, and Baltar is dwelling among Cylons, there also seems to be a breaking down of faith with the different models too.
Notice the one skin job snapping at the other concerning God when they were all arguing at the control center, saying that he hardly ever spoke his name or something to that effect.
An identity crisis seems to be building in the cylon ranks, as well as struggles for power even in the midst of voting, and I don't just mean the difference between skin jobs and the hybrids running the base stars.
Very interesting development. I still think Baltar may be a prototype cylon if not a model. There may be only one Baltar, but he may be cylon still.
I'd really like to know more about his history prior to Caprica/Six etc
[Spoiler]Interesting thoughts JackN. It is looking more and more likely that Baltar is/was some kind of prototype model. If he was one of the first he may have been a flawed creation and was unsuitable to be used as a proper Cylon skin job. Adding Six into his head may have been done as a means to control him and guide him along the path, the one "God" had chosen for him. I still think he is a Cylon, mainly because I still believe he died when the shock wave hit his house by the lake. But if they did put Six in his head and he can project her, then the others would see her, since they can see the projections of others.
You are right the harmony that seemed to exist before among the 7 is certainly breaking. Perhaps the other 5 are back on the Cylon homeworld? Its possible there was disagreement over whether to chase the human fleet or stay and rebuild the colonies. Perhaps the 5 have remained on the Cylon homeworld. And why do they need to find Earth? Why do they believe that Earth should become their new home? Maybe they feel that if they find earth God will save them or something.
Interesting that the beacon they found had some sort of bioweapon (assuming thats what it was). Its obvously something left behind by the 13th colony as a marker for their journey. It looks like it was also left as a booby trap. But how could they have something which could infect cylons?
So it will be interesting to see if the Cylons really fracture. If they continue on their current path it could lead to civil war. Brings them another step closer to being human.
[/Spoiler]
but what was up with the nuee sharon yoga scene? It served no purpose whatsoever other then to maybe appeal to adolecents...
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Falcon1 [/i]
[B]Yup she's properly in the club now. All forgotten like nothing happened before. It will probably come back to haunt them. [/B][/QUOTE]
Spoiler: like when someone lets slip that adama lied to her about the baby
Spoiler: On the subject of athena. Does't anyone realize she's a liability for the very reason she's a cylon, regardless of how loyal she is. WHAT IF SHE DIES! If she happens to die in range of a ressurection ship she'll reincarnate and I'm sure the cylons won't be too happy about her. They would love to squeeze her for a little info. They've got to keep her away from sensitive material such as knowing the way to earth.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]overall a good ep...
but what was up with the nuee sharon yoga scene? It served no purpose whatsoever other then to maybe appeal to adolecents... [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep, but I don't mind :D That was more of a reference to the season one basestar where they show them all naked. Cylons supposedly didn't necessarily wear clothes on board the ship. That could have been a problem for scenes actually inside the ship this time so they dressed most of them up.
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
more importantly they need to keep her away from the cookies!
on a more serious note, Spoiler: maybe this has been answered before but would the others be able to tell straight away it was athena?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]Yep, but I don't mind :D That was more of a reference to the season one basestar where they show them all naked. Cylons supposedly didn't necessarily wear clothes on board the ship. That could have been a problem for scenes actually inside the ship this time so they dressed most of them up. [/B][/QUOTE]
Who's making all these designer cylon clothes? Do we just not talk about the other five Southeast Asian sweatshop cylons because we don't want to think about where our garments were made? Cylons really [i]are[/i] heartless machines.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]Yep, but I don't mind :D That was more of a reference to the season one basestar where they show them all naked. Cylons supposedly didn't necessarily wear clothes on board the ship. That could have been a problem for scenes actually inside the ship this time so they dressed most of them up. [/B][/QUOTE]
I got the idea that that Sharon might've been newly minted, judging by how she was so totally oblivious to everything. It'd also explain why Six was so disgusted with Baltar acting like a child when they walked in on her; It'd be like someone making a big deal about averting their eyes from an unclothed baby.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sinclair [/i]
[B]Most likely that will happen when Baltar comes back in Galactica and shouts Spoiler: "Dude, where is my car!" [/B][/QUOTE]
What if this is all a figment of Baltars fractured mind...
Seriously though, Baltar as a prototype skin job could explain a few things, and possibly he is a source of a different kind of infection on the cylons IE: a viral AI that spilled into the original Cylons.
Why did the Six on Caprica cater to his needs so much and "protect" him from the blast, etc ... If Baltar is a protoype, there may be only one of him, or a very select number of copies, and/or no ressurection capabilities. He may be the perfect mole for the cylons, a skin job who identifies so much with the humans as to pass as one.
Then there was that comment about all of them coming from the same genetic source... You have hybrids running the BaseStars, is Baltar a different kind of hyrbid, mostly Baltar with a bit of Six in as a complex watchdog routine? Or was she a side effect or an infection into Baltar as a survival method after the blast wave?
I'm also trying to cope with the massive identity crisis all these copies must be coming up against.
I mean, an expanding network, not just in distance across physical space, but in quantity of copies (nodes). And with all these dying and ressurecting the demands on whatever kind of database of experiences is being compiled must be getting daunting.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Arethusa [/i]
[B]Who's making all these designer cylon clothes? Do we just not talk about the other five Southeast Asian sweatshop cylons because we don't want to think about where our garments were made? Cylons really [i]are[/i] heartless machines. [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey, when stomping down on others and trying to assert your total and undisputed universal domination, one has to look their best. And in the case of Sharon that might mean not wearing anything at all :P
Spoiler: Well there is also that circular time theme going on here too...
Remember SanFam's (or was it A2597's) reference to the music (latin lyric's ?) about how this has all happened and will happen again or something to that effect.
It got me thinking about the infecting virus on the object they found floating at the coordinates the base star jumped too.
If time is circular in this universe, just on a cycle that is sooo long that no one can remember much except through myth and ancient writing, the origins of this virus could very well be military in nature, and designed specifically for the cylons, even though this iteration of cylons has never encountered it before, nore have any record of it's existence.
I would just hope that they wouldn't go hog wild with time loop shtuff like they did with ST TNG... ;)
Are you saying JackN that the Galactica can't use the gravity wells of the pulsars to jump back in time and nail the Cylons with the entire Colonial Fleet? :p
Man that would be something, wave after wave of Battlestars bounding 7 kinds of crap into Cylon Basestars :cool:
[Spoiler]I don't think they would use the idea that Baltar is just imagining the whole thing. That would be a very weak storyline. His mind is indeed broken but now that they've touched on the projection stuff its clear he has some of their abilities. It is interesting that before Baltar turned into the most hated person in the fleet, he was considered almost a legend for his genius. I wonder in some way if they were grooming him to be a leader. Ok he became that as the President but I wonder if its all part of a training plan to bring him closer to being a leader of the Cylons. With all the infighting now he is the only one with an outside perspective, especially with 6 dropping hints all the time. Hmm I probably talking a load of crap here :)
Regarding the Identity Crisis, I wonder how they decide who is the decision making group on the Basestars. Obviously the 7 that were on New Caprica were making decisions etc. Some I assume that they were the "first" 7 with all the copies coming from them, and that all copies take orders from the first 7. Its just that I've been wondering how they delegate tasks to other basestars when another bunch of 7 are onboard. One thing is clear, individuality is starting to emerge and that will play havoc with the almost hive mind mentality they have demonstrated to date.
Hmm they have certainly turned this season into more of a mind job that previous seasons. I think this is good as it shows they are putting more depth into the writing.[/Spoiler]
I don't think Baltar will ever prove to be a cylon or anything like that. I think with him being a genius he was probably chosen as a model for the cylons to base their organic form on. If your going to take the form of your maker why not base it on one of their most evolved specimens? This has likely made him susceptible to some cylon technology such as projection. Its likely their minds work on similar ways or cylon DNA is based on samples they stole from Baltar long ago. They need to show the cylon UFO's abducting him in ther middle of the night. Its clear there is a deeper connection between them (or Six can just be full of shit) but if they mak him a cylon I'm pesonally gong to go and kick Ron Moore's ass out the other side for making me waste my time watching such a cop out.
Spoiler: Two things I noticed about the episode. The first thing, the artifact the Cylons found reminded me of the cargo container in Homeworld: Cataclysm with the Beast infection.
Second, Athena is going to have a problem if she boards the infected basestar, although she seemed to recognise the danger so maybe she won't.
Comments
[B](Spoiler inside)Hmm, I must have missed something, how does Gaius know there are twelve models when he asks her about the final five? [/B][/QUOTE]
No need to spoiler that really :) Way back in the miniseries. When Six confeses she's a cylon, she says to him "there are 12 cylon models, I'm number six."
[B] Spoiler: No, the hybrid, like the raiders, centurions, etc is not one of the twelve. They're something else, it seems, but presumably "human" like the seven so far.
The base ships aren't so bad in the corridors, but I agree they're quite terrible in the command area. Hopefully we'll soon see the end of that with the projection stuff.
Overall, this was a lot stronger than Collaborators. Hopefully they'll keep this up. So far, this season has completely restored my faith in the show after the mess that came towards the end of season 2 (seriously, the person who wrote Black Market should be fucked to death). [/B][/QUOTE]
Spoiler: yeah I agree the corridors arent that bad. I thought the concept of the corridors being repetitive and unhuman like was quite brilliant, only a michine could really navigate through them. Do they need so much light though? I mean, I think the cylons could invent a better light bulb instead of having hundred of little small ones. The cylon CIC though was a little bit underwhelming visually. It really looked like it came right out of an old science fiction show with all the lights and leds. The sets seemed a little rushed and had a slight hint of cheese which they usually do pretty good job of avoiding.
And yes, this season looks like its going to be really strong throughout. Mostly because I think they realized not hashing out and developing an arc really let the show start going off course. Seems RDM and DE finally have a solid idea of where the story is going this time. You can tell in season two, the first half was really closing of all of season one. Once all that was resolved they sort of ran out of ideas and went into auto magic mode with no clear goal.
It could also be a joint projection to confuse/subdue Baltar and his knowledge of the operations of the base star/cylons while he is aboard.
It was interesting how the male cylon had an odd look on his face when he passed Six and Baltar in the corridor when Six was projecting the forest path rather than the metal corridor.
I also found it interesting that Six didn't mention the alien object in the infected Base Star.
[B] Spoiler:
I also found it interesting that Six didn't mention the alien object in the infected Base Star. [/B][/QUOTE]
Spoiler: He's alive by a thread. Letting out that he was hiding something would have certainly tipped the scales against him. For all her change of attitude she still doesn't want him dead
Humans made Cylons. Cylons rebelled and we had the first Cylon War. Now I assume that the old Centurions were based on earlier designs and did the tasks they were assigned by humans. So if these models were self aware and formed part of the rebellion then something must have changed later on for the Centurions to become what they are now... simple foot soldiers who can be reprogrammed by any of the skin jobs. So that makes me wonder if there is a core group of original Cylons behind the scenes. There was that comment by 6 in the pilot (think it was then) where she said the old Centurions were obsolete, i.e. the models we are familiar with from the original series. But were all of them made obsolete? Perhaps in the early days of the rebellion and the war there were higher ranking Cylons who ran the show, much like the skin jobs run the show now. But maybe there is little left over from the old days especially when they moved to organic designs.
But then if the unseen 5 are human cylons after all then that blows it out of the water. Maybe its something the spin off series will reveal when ever that gets going.
Anyway maybe I've been thinking about it too much :D [/Spoiler]
Something that's been nagging me for a while is the constant need to follow the humans. Sure they said that the humans might return one day to erradicate the cylons from the colonies, and that was a threat they had to try and squelch, but this almost seems a religious thing now. They get further and further from the colonies which are still occupied, but yet they are following Galactica and the humans, with reincarnation ships in tow etc...
Speaking of religion, now that the "child of two races" is in cylon hands, and Baltar is dwelling among Cylons, there also seems to be a breaking down of faith with the different models too.
Notice the one skin job snapping at the other concerning God when they were all arguing at the control center, saying that he hardly ever spoke his name or something to that effect.
An identity crisis seems to be building in the cylon ranks, as well as struggles for power even in the midst of voting, and I don't just mean the difference between skin jobs and the hybrids running the base stars.
Very interesting development. I still think Baltar may be a prototype cylon if not a model. There may be only one Baltar, but he may be cylon still.
I'd really like to know more about his history prior to Caprica/Six etc
[edit]
Man, [i]negro[/i] cylon?
You are right the harmony that seemed to exist before among the 7 is certainly breaking. Perhaps the other 5 are back on the Cylon homeworld? Its possible there was disagreement over whether to chase the human fleet or stay and rebuild the colonies. Perhaps the 5 have remained on the Cylon homeworld. And why do they need to find Earth? Why do they believe that Earth should become their new home? Maybe they feel that if they find earth God will save them or something.
Interesting that the beacon they found had some sort of bioweapon (assuming thats what it was). Its obvously something left behind by the 13th colony as a marker for their journey. It looks like it was also left as a booby trap. But how could they have something which could infect cylons?
So it will be interesting to see if the Cylons really fracture. If they continue on their current path it could lead to civil war. Brings them another step closer to being human.
[/Spoiler]
[B]I can't believe no one mentioned Spoiler: Athena yet... :D [/B][/QUOTE]
Yup she's properly in the club now. All forgotten like nothing happened before. It will probably come back to haunt them.
but what was up with the nuee sharon yoga scene? It served no purpose whatsoever other then to maybe appeal to adolecents...
[B]Yup she's properly in the club now. All forgotten like nothing happened before. It will probably come back to haunt them. [/B][/QUOTE]
Spoiler: like when someone lets slip that adama lied to her about the baby
[B]overall a good ep...
but what was up with the nuee sharon yoga scene? It served no purpose whatsoever other then to maybe appeal to adolecents... [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep, but I don't mind :D That was more of a reference to the season one basestar where they show them all naked. Cylons supposedly didn't necessarily wear clothes on board the ship. That could have been a problem for scenes actually inside the ship this time so they dressed most of them up.
on a more serious note, Spoiler: maybe this has been answered before but would the others be able to tell straight away it was athena?
[B]Yep, but I don't mind :D That was more of a reference to the season one basestar where they show them all naked. Cylons supposedly didn't necessarily wear clothes on board the ship. That could have been a problem for scenes actually inside the ship this time so they dressed most of them up. [/B][/QUOTE]
Who's making all these designer cylon clothes? Do we just not talk about the other five Southeast Asian sweatshop cylons because we don't want to think about where our garments were made? Cylons really [i]are[/i] heartless machines.
[B]more importantly they need to keep her away from the cookies!
on a more serious note, Spoiler: maybe this has been answered before but would the others be able to tell straight away it was athena? [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes because on New Caprica she was recognised by Zena Warrior Cylon woman.
[B] Spoiler: like when someone lets slip that adama lied to her about the baby [/B][/QUOTE]
Most likely that will happen when Baltar comes back in Galactica and shouts Spoiler: "Dude, where is my car!"
[B]Yep, but I don't mind :D That was more of a reference to the season one basestar where they show them all naked. Cylons supposedly didn't necessarily wear clothes on board the ship. That could have been a problem for scenes actually inside the ship this time so they dressed most of them up. [/B][/QUOTE]
I got the idea that that Sharon might've been newly minted, judging by how she was so totally oblivious to everything. It'd also explain why Six was so disgusted with Baltar acting like a child when they walked in on her; It'd be like someone making a big deal about averting their eyes from an unclothed baby.
[B]Most likely that will happen when Baltar comes back in Galactica and shouts Spoiler: "Dude, where is my car!" [/B][/QUOTE]
:D I busted out laughing, why is that so funny
What if this is all a figment of Baltars fractured mind...
Seriously though, Baltar as a prototype skin job could explain a few things, and possibly he is a source of a different kind of infection on the cylons IE: a viral AI that spilled into the original Cylons.
Why did the Six on Caprica cater to his needs so much and "protect" him from the blast, etc ... If Baltar is a protoype, there may be only one of him, or a very select number of copies, and/or no ressurection capabilities. He may be the perfect mole for the cylons, a skin job who identifies so much with the humans as to pass as one.
Then there was that comment about all of them coming from the same genetic source... You have hybrids running the BaseStars, is Baltar a different kind of hyrbid, mostly Baltar with a bit of Six in as a complex watchdog routine? Or was she a side effect or an infection into Baltar as a survival method after the blast wave?
I'm also trying to cope with the massive identity crisis all these copies must be coming up against.
I mean, an expanding network, not just in distance across physical space, but in quantity of copies (nodes). And with all these dying and ressurecting the demands on whatever kind of database of experiences is being compiled must be getting daunting.
[B] Spoiler: What if this is all a figment of Baltars fractured mind...
[/B][/QUOTE]
man, that is so Spoiler: St. Elsewhere, and I would be so disappointed.
[B]Who's making all these designer cylon clothes? Do we just not talk about the other five Southeast Asian sweatshop cylons because we don't want to think about where our garments were made? Cylons really [i]are[/i] heartless machines. [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey, when stomping down on others and trying to assert your total and undisputed universal domination, one has to look their best. And in the case of Sharon that might mean not wearing anything at all :P
Remember SanFam's (or was it A2597's) reference to the music (latin lyric's ?) about how this has all happened and will happen again or something to that effect.
It got me thinking about the infecting virus on the object they found floating at the coordinates the base star jumped too.
If time is circular in this universe, just on a cycle that is sooo long that no one can remember much except through myth and ancient writing, the origins of this virus could very well be military in nature, and designed specifically for the cylons, even though this iteration of cylons has never encountered it before, nore have any record of it's existence.
I would just hope that they wouldn't go hog wild with time loop shtuff like they did with ST TNG... ;)
Man that would be something, wave after wave of Battlestars bounding 7 kinds of crap into Cylon Basestars :cool:
[Spoiler]I don't think they would use the idea that Baltar is just imagining the whole thing. That would be a very weak storyline. His mind is indeed broken but now that they've touched on the projection stuff its clear he has some of their abilities. It is interesting that before Baltar turned into the most hated person in the fleet, he was considered almost a legend for his genius. I wonder in some way if they were grooming him to be a leader. Ok he became that as the President but I wonder if its all part of a training plan to bring him closer to being a leader of the Cylons. With all the infighting now he is the only one with an outside perspective, especially with 6 dropping hints all the time. Hmm I probably talking a load of crap here :)
Regarding the Identity Crisis, I wonder how they decide who is the decision making group on the Basestars. Obviously the 7 that were on New Caprica were making decisions etc. Some I assume that they were the "first" 7 with all the copies coming from them, and that all copies take orders from the first 7. Its just that I've been wondering how they delegate tasks to other basestars when another bunch of 7 are onboard. One thing is clear, individuality is starting to emerge and that will play havoc with the almost hive mind mentality they have demonstrated to date.
Hmm they have certainly turned this season into more of a mind job that previous seasons. I think this is good as it shows they are putting more depth into the writing.[/Spoiler]
Second, Athena is going to have a problem if she boards the infected basestar, although she seemed to recognise the danger so maybe she won't.
Worf
Baltar is God? (for the Cylons anyway)
Was that where they were heading with this?