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Christianism
Freejack
Jake the Not-so-Wise
in Zocalo v2.0
There is an essay in this weeks Time that does the best job I have seen correctly defining the religious right in the US: as Christianists. I argee with the author's view that the religous right does not represent a majority of Christians in this country.
Good read: [url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1191826,00.html[/url]
Jake
Good read: [url]http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1191826,00.html[/url]
Jake
Comments
(AKA, I agree the article is true, but I'm not happy with it)
;)
A#, I'm a bit confused about your remarks, while you agree with the remarks, are you not happy the most Christians do not what to see a melding of politics and religion or are you unhappy that some people do?
Croxis, I think the position of the article is the same regardless of denomination or even religion (see the comment about Muslim and Islamist).
Jake
basically, the line about
[quote]socially liberal on issues like contraception, gay rights, women's equality and a multi-faith society.[/quote]
Now, we are commanded to love everyone, I don't really have a problem with that. Yet to often I've seen Christains fully condone such actions.
For instance, churches embracing gays into their congregation is a GOOD thing, but then saying they are doing nothing wrong, or that gay marraige is OK is not, and I see that happen now adays...
contraception, no problem with it myself, so long as it is a preventative measure, morning after pills, IMHO, are too late.
Womens Equality?!? Ok, only issue I see there is allowing women as pastors, etc. AFAIK Christains are very very very much in favor of womens rights.
Basically, I get upset when people start changing religion to conform to society. Totally ignoring what God has said, or done about things.
and then there was this:
[quote]And there are those who simply believe that, by definition, God is unknowable to our limited, fallible human minds and souls.[/quote]
If you don't know god, well, sorry, you aren't really a Christain. To claim that there is no way to know God would undermine the whole personal relationship WITH God that Christains enjoy.
Do we know why God does certain things? No. Not always.
Do we know the real opinion of God on an instance like Terri Schiavo? No, not really...I can only give personal opinion.
Contraceptives? Well...again, personal opinion.
Role of Women? Absolutly we know that. Look how Jesus treated women, very much with respect and dignity...as equals. So, yes we do
Gays? Absolutly we know. Soddom and Gamorra anyone? That said, we are also told to Love them. (Love the sinner, not the sin, never had a problem with that. Even had a Gay room mate last year.We didn't see eye to eye on numerous things...mainly because he was a party person and I'm well...not. But no problems)
frankly, that entire article pisses me off.
[B]frankly, that entire article pisses me off. [/B][/QUOTE]
Why?
[B][guess]Because the author does some what make a claim of what Chritianity could be like, which doesn't not match A# interpritation, despite the fact A# said anyone who believe Jeasus died on a cross for everyone's sins is a Christian[/guess] [/B][/QUOTE]
And follows bibilical teaching...
One sentance eh?
He alludes in this article that Christains should be pushover libral junkies, forgoing all biblical teaching in favor of worldy views that are in direct contradiction to the word of God; in effect, making it a non-religion by having it's followers mitigate which parts of the Bible are to be followed, thereby negating it as "The Word of God" and undermining the religion as a whole.
[quote]There are very orthodox believers who nonetheless respect the freedom and conscience of others as part of their core understanding of what being a Christian is. They have no problem living next to an atheist or a gay couple or a single mother or people whose views on the meaning of life are utterly alien to them--and respecting their neighbors' choices. That doesn't threaten their faith. Sometimes the contrast helps them understand their own faith better.[/quote]
Gongrats, A#, you make me sad.
[B]Actually, I was under the impression that the article said nothing of the sort. Rather, that Christians should concern themselves less with the world around them and more with their own betterment. [/B][/QUOTE]
I don't think the author intends to be less interested in the world around them, but not bring religious dogma in the political arrena (not that members of a goverment can't be religious, but to use their religious teachings as one rubric, not the end all be all). Although that is probably my own views moreso than the author's.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B](First off I define Christain as ANYONE that belives that Christ died on the cross for our sins, and try to follow bibilical teaching)[/quote][/b]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B](If you don't know god, well, sorry, you aren't really a Christain. To claim that there is no way to know God would undermine the whole personal relationship WITH God that Christains enjoy. [/B][/QUOTE]
Those two sentences tell quite diferent pictures..
If you go back to Jesus's teaching, he himself peached a message that was very apolitical. One of the more important points of his minististry to Jews of the day, was that they had let the Hebrew laws become their religion as opposed to a tool to become nearer to God. Their actions on the outside displayed an obidience, but their hearts were two worried about status and politics. I see many of those who lead the Christianists today acting much the same way, so concerned with the laws, and our adherience to it, they forget about the relationship.
Jake
[B]If you go back to Jesus's teaching, he himself peached a message that was very apolitical.[/B][/QUOTE]
Whoah, ok, I have to completely disagree on this. Politics is more than laws and elections. Jesus may or may not have been manythings, but he was most certainly political. His preaching led rather inexorably towards a fairly extreme sort of anarchocommunism. Neither the Jews nor the Romans particularly liked their established power questioned. And his message was certainly political enough to get his ass killed.
[B]Whoah, ok, I have to completely disagree on this. Politics is more than laws and elections. Jesus may or may not have been manythings, but he was most certainly political. His preaching led rather inexorably towards a fairly extreme sort of anarchocommunism. Neither the Jews nor the Romans particularly liked their established power questioned. And his message was certainly political enough to get his ass killed. [/B][/QUOTE]
But the lack of politics in his teaching was the very thing that threatened the establishment, especially that of the Jewish priests/leaders. His basic message was that these laws and traditions and religious trappings will not make you happy, it is what's in your heart. I do not believe that Jesus advocated the overthrow of the power structure, I believe his message was that this power structure is not the path to God.
Jake
CHOOSE
It worrys me how certain Christians in the US are doing their utmost to align with the current party in power and exercise their views through them. Smells very much like what the Catholic Church used to be good at, especially in Ireland. They had such a firm grip on government that no one dare challenge them. Of course thats all changed now.
With these extreme Christians they really need to take a step back imo and take a long hard look at themselves. I'm Catholic and have no desire to convert the world to the ways of the Catholic Church. I don't take the moral high ground just because I'm "Christian" and those around me are not. It really annoys me that certain people who simply label themselves as "Christian" have this arrogant air about themselves and that all those around them have to be converted. And if you don't accept their views you are some how inferior. That so winds me up!! Thats not Christianisim its Elitism!! We should be allowed to belive what we want and no state should be dominated by any religion. Yes religion does have a role in government but not as a means to excercise the views of the few on the many.
Anyway I liked that article.
[B]But the lack of politics in his teaching was the very thing that threatened the establishment, especially that of the Jewish priests/leaders. His basic message was that these laws and traditions and religious trappings will not make you happy, it is what's in your heart. I do not believe that Jesus advocated the overthrow of the power structure, I believe his message was that this power structure is not the path to God.[/B][/QUOTE]
My point is really that that is still an inevitably political message.
Moreover, he [i]did[/i] advocate overthrowing at least some of the power structure. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, but kick these fucking investment banking yuppies out of my temple, etc.