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Wow I never felt so angry!
Reaver4k
Trainee in training
in Zocalo v2.0
I dunno I feel so much hate for this world, it feels really good. I really hate religion and I want to see every religous person in the world to be shot in the back of the head or put in gulags to prove god wont save them.
I am sick of them, of them all. Trying to bann fiction books like Harry Potter and The Da Vinci Code and before we know it they will be trying to ban everything that they think is unchristian..... I am sick of them running around blowing them selves up in the name of god! Why does'nt somone just kill them all? I am also sick of them brainwashing little kids as well taking away there freewill.
I am sick of them, of them all. Trying to bann fiction books like Harry Potter and The Da Vinci Code and before we know it they will be trying to ban everything that they think is unchristian..... I am sick of them running around blowing them selves up in the name of god! Why does'nt somone just kill them all? I am also sick of them brainwashing little kids as well taking away there freewill.
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Comments
I dunno I feel so much hate for this world, it feels really good. I really hate religion and I want to see every religous person in the world to be shot in the back of the head or put in gulags to prove god wont save them.
[b]Every religious person? OK then. Lets see what the world is like with no moral authority. The number of people donating their time and money decimated, and all in the name of "Let see if God will stop THIS!" Thanks for that intelligent question, guess that means you want to kill me now eh?[/b]
I am sick of them, of them all. Trying to bann fiction books like Harry Potter and The Da Vinci Code and before we know it they will be trying to ban everything that they think is unchristian..... I am sick of them running around blowing them selves up in the name of god! Why does'nt somone just kill them all? I am also sick of them brainwashing little kids as well taking away there freewill.
[b]Where to start...all of them eh? Again, that includes me, I can understand you may not like me, I'm cool with that, but really, I'd bet you know alot of religious people and just don't know it.
Then you go on to describe some of the things the radical christian groups attempt that most Christains don't agree with, then lump the Chrisians together with the islamic extreamist. Oh, and you forgot to capitalize God in that sentance.
Here is a thought, why not actually meet some of the good Christians that are out there so you can have a clue as to whom you are wanting to kill off. It sounds as though you have had a run in with someone who was on their high horse IMO, but oh well...what do I know, I'm just a Christian with a target painted on his head.
[/B]
Im not religious, but that doesnt mean Im a heartless bastard.
Oh, and another thing...
it's OK to say you want to personally shoot several billion people, but not to say that without Christian and religious influances the world would be more immoral?
Thank you for re-affirming my faith in humanity.
Go [Deleted - no flaming].
Gosh, I do feel safe, though, knowin' Jesus is watching out for me, keepin' society orderly-like. Because no one's ever killed in his name. Or committed genocide in his name. Or fought countless wars in the Middle East in his name. Or burned black churches in the night in his name. Or protected delicious freedom by eradicating civil liberties in his name. No way. The Church has always been kind and benelovent and just.
Do you even know what the words you use mean? Moral by whose standards? If you define morality in Christian terms, no shit, the world that is not Christian is by definition immoral. Kind of rigging the game, here, aren't you.
[edit]
Telling him to fuck straw men is not a flame. It is a legitimate criticism of his inability or unwillingness to avoid logical falacies in his argument with a swear thrown in. This is uncalled for and inappropriate moderation.
Is Reaver going a little overboard?? Well yeah, my wife is Catholic, but I dont hold it against her.
Religion as a whole throughout the ages has been and created some of the most immoral people we have ever seen. The Crusades, the Inquisiton (what a show :D ) Islamic Jihad, its all killing in the name of God. Regardless of whos god, its still god.
Christianity is a great concept but so long as god allows it to be run by man, especially currupt men of power, its will never be a moral place.
Even now you have Catholic priests raping alter boys and conspiring to hide the truth about it. Yeah I want the guy who talks to god for me to be someone who regularly molests small boys.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
Every religious person? OK then. Lets see what the world is like with no moral authority.[/B] [/B][/QUOTE]
Why would religious people somehow be the moral authority?
It was the episode where the human race had gone extinct for several reasons and partially due to the uprising of our servants, the cyborgs. Two of the most dedicated servants followed their original programming to the letter and after the last human had died out, they recreated the next Adam and Eve in secrecy from the rest of the cyborg society. After this came out, they as well as A & E were hunted down since live huma s were the only ones that could disable the power networks that ran the robots.
Anyhoo, at one point there was this scene where a cyborg search patrol hunted down Adam from his whereabouts, some small cabin or some such, littered with antiques, furniture and books. One of the hunters came across a copy of The Bible. He picked it up, scanned the name of the book from the cover, looked at it quickly, simply stated [i]"Human propaganda."[/i] with a hollow voice and proceeded to throw the book over his shoulder and continued the search for Adam.
And that's what it all comes down to. It is propaganda. A book with a story and a moral to it, based on real characters. You get an idea how you should live and the knowledge of the penalty you get for not doing so. The Bible is a book meant for the wise. Not the smart, not the preachers, but for the wise. It's like alcohol. With moderation, it only makes your life more pleasant, gives you new ideas from time to time and generally, you can have a good time with it. And just as well as with alcohol, too much only makes your life a bitch and creates problems both for you and everyone around you. Get too enveloped in it, and soon you realise that you have no friends, only your 'Religion' to carry you through. Be it Booze or the Bible.
As far as important books go, not one was published by God without the editors of Man, so you don't get the real picture of a religion from a book. Ever. All of it is in you, and what parts and actions you decide to spark to life or elevate from a written codex is up to you, and you alone answer for your choices.
If I'd be Jesus, I'd make a Secong Coming. Only to come down to earth in blue faded jeans and a leather jacket to drop off an unedited version of the Bible (with of course all the texts deemed apocryphic at the time of release) to an independent publisher. Then vanish into thin air to be debated whether or not I really was the J himself. :)
Unfortunately, we don't get second chances. And what our fathers fucked up for us, we can't retrieve. And we'd probably have done the same, so all we can do is to make the best of what we've got and live with it.
Every religion has a codex of moral values that make it possible to live in a civilized society, which should be adopted mostly as such since they're simply based on compassion. The rest is a matter of Faith and meant only for you and your higher being.
Anyone who tries to convert someone through cencorship or regulation tied to a faith, is only trying to use you. They think they got a hang of something that they really don't have a clue about. They're absolutely sure that their view is right and even if it isn't... hey, we're so numbered, we can't ALL be wrong, can we? ;)
All we can do is to continue what we've done so far. Keep the faith to ourselves and adopt the compassion from the books if we can't get in anywhere else. If we get flamed by zealots, we listen to their opinions, tell them why we think they're wrong and after that ignore them. And if they try to take away something that we believe in, flat out fight.
Simple as that. A bullet in the backside of the zealot is always tempting, but hardly ever the good choice. You get one down and twenty others knock on your door.
[B]Nothing like a Reaver post to make me sympathize with Christianity. [/B][/QUOTE]
Hear Hear.
I've said it before, but I'll say again that I'm an atheist. However, as DarthCaligula succinctly pointed out, that doesn't necessarily mean you take an active opposition to religion. I'm not anti-theistic in that respect. I respect religion; I just don't adhere to one.
[B]pardon, but without the church, the world would be far, FAR more immoral than it is now. It's already getting pretty damn immoral. [/B][/QUOTE]
Pardon me, but i think all the people burned at the stake for herasy and witchcraft might take exception to that. All that was, was a grab to preserve the church's power by diverting the mass's attention from their own immorality and lust for power. Add to that religious meddling in everything from science to sex these days......:mad:
what was it? judge not lest you be judged? what gives the church (or any religion for that matter) a monopoly of morality?
Arethusa: well put! rock on!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SpiritOne [/i]
[B]Is Reaver going a little overboard?? Well yeah, my wife is Catholic, but I dont hold it against her.[B][/QUOTE]
I didnt hold it against my ex either until she tried to convert me and get me to marry her so we could have sex. unlike Morden i am anti-theistic. I believe the world would be a much better place without religion. thats not to say i hate them or anything, but that is my informed opinion. and no i dont hold it against others, some of my good friends are religious, some of them very much so.
[b]Reaver:[/b] You're way overboard. 98% of the world believes in some religion. That doesn't make them all fanatics.
[b]A2597:[/b] You're also way overboard, the opposite way. Exactly how has relgion been a moral compass in the past, and why is it needed to exist for their to continue to be a moral compass? Sure, it has helped direct society at times, but that direction hasn't always been positive.
Think of all the scientists during the dark ages. Think of the inquisition. Think of all the people killing in the Middle East in the name of their relgion (yes, 3 major religions, including Christianity, or do you forget Lebenon?). Think of the Crusades. Think of the kamakazi bombers of WWII who believed their Emporer was God. Think of everything Arethusa said (after his flame finished). Think of the corruption that has been seen in the past of the church in Europe. Think about WHY Christmas exists - it's a pagen holiday that was adopted in order to woo the natives of England when the church expanded there, and just happened to fall near the date of the death of Christ, so they associated the two. Same thing with most of the other major holidays.
This isn't an example of a moral compass. This is an example of "we have power and we are going to use it no matter what is moral." In the end, morality exists in spite of the influence of religion. The ideas underlying relgion are a basis of morality, but the way in which socieities practice those relgions aren't. Also, think how outdated your relgion's morality is: do you think the world hasn't advanced in the moral debate since the fall of Babylon? That's the approximate era when most of the moral basis of all western (Christan, Islamic, and Jewish) religions books were written.
[b]Arethusa:[/b] Excellent point after the flame. Flame = bad = not needed = detracts from your argument.
--RC
First control of society and killing another for their beliefs are far from the sole providence of religion, second, morality is far from the sole domain of religion.
A#s post from a week or so ago may be on to something. The problem is that apparently we cannont be reasonable about the discussions anymore. The only way a debate is of benefit to anyone is if the arguements are presented with clear, constructive statements of position support by reasonable evidence. This excludes cussing, threats, and name calling.
Now folks, lets cut this flame-baiting out on both sides. Reasonable people can have reasonable debates about [i]any[/i] topic. A reasonable person is not easily offended and makes efforts to avoid attacking opposing person themselves, only their arguements.
Jake
How old is he again?
And how come he's so fucking depressed about?
He doesnt look all that fucked up to me, not like what I looked like and what I look like still.
He doesnt have a bunch of giant worms crawling on his arms and chest.
I've not seen him having titties the size of my fist.
Hell, I could doubt him having the same kind of fuck up after fuck up happen to him as to me.
Mind you, I do sort of miss having all those scars on me. The jigsaw ones.
He just needs to grab himself by the balls and get on with it. Life kicks you in the ass? So what. Face it and knee it into balls and smash its face on the floor and do the curb-jaw mix.
[B]Arethusa: Excellent point after the flame. Flame = bad = not needed = detracts from your argument.[/B][/QUOTE]
I disagree. Telling him to "go fuck some straw men" may be somewhat aggressive, but it tends to get more attention than politely calling someone on straw manning, which nothing short of obnoxious behavior in [i]any[/i] debate.
[B]I don't understand why you bother taking reaver's posts so seriously. He's an attention-seeking teen who obviously doesn't know anything about how the world actually works. His posts are equal to flamebait. [/B][/QUOTE]
Eh, your probably right, I'm just feeding the fire. But I am a bit dissappointed about the direction the tone has taken. We are a smaller group that we used to be, and that should mean that we function better as a group , but the opposite looks to be true.
Jake
I have to say, I'm very disappointed. Why some of you feel the need to be so rude is beyond me. You can make legitimate criticisms of someone else's argument if you like, but flaming someone, even under the cover of making a counter-argument, has no place at FirstOnes.com. I suggest you all go and read the [url=http://forums.firstones.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7233]rules[/url], paying particular attention to #2.