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Time to get busy
shadow boxer
The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
in Babylon 5
Ok Firstones, listen up.
The chief rabble rouser has the floor.... me !
We have a problem.
FO is slowing dying a death of attrition. Sanfam, our long suffering leader by default is getting ready to assault College and become a 'real' student it seems, which leaves him with little time. He may well be leaving us much like Drazi did.
That leaves very little holding this place together, this side of the Modsquads anyways.
Sanfam has also been our philanthrophic benefactor, coughing up ONE HUNDRED BUCKS A MONTH to keep Firstones alive. Striker has also been a fantastic landlord not hitting us with the full 'rent' all the time, rather going into debt for us.
We cannot continue as we are.
We need some form of income and we need to get offically organised.
I hate kowtowing to the world of money as much as the rest of you. I would love Firstones to really remain just a loose association of very like minded souls, but... Firstones as an enitity 'has to eat'. To handle money we have to be a registered organisation.
Sanfam came to me and told me I was an ideas man, someone to stir the rank and file and try and get something going. I'm very happy to do so, but as I said to him,
"I aint doin SHIT till I have the support of basically all and sundry."
From there I'm confident I can breathe some new life into FO, give it back its vibrancy, purpose and power.
I will do everything in my power to make FO the place to be for Sci-fi fans in general. It's possible. I know that for a fact.
What I have to have first up is a US citizen who can legally register Firstones as a non profit organisation. We have to have that legal infrastructure to make what I have in mind work. This "Firstones" association will be essentially a very close affiliate, a 'post box' with which we can interact with banks and institutions which require this kind of thing.
This individual, whomever they are must be one of the concientious, level headed practical secretary type, male or female, it matters not.
I have no idea of the legal requirements for a non profit org are in the states is but it MUST be secured somehow if FO is to process an income which... we absolutely must have to survive.
~~~~~
part 2 - making enough to live on as an organisation.
The best way to do so is to produce changing content which every B5 and Sci fi fan can relate to and enjoy.
Firstones are talented people, inordinately skilled in some cases, we have some absolutely priceless human resources which we could use to make FO prosper and grow.
How do we do that ?
We publish a Webcomic, three times a week. We write a five year story Arc in the vein of the great maker and keep people coming back... time and time again. We generate traffic which gives us more muscle for banner ads ( tastefully applied ). We whore all the terrific talent we have to make some truly new and powerful B5 content.
Remember that even George Lucas is now scared of fanboy work in his Universe, its THAT good. He shut down an Australian fan based movie on account of it doing too well.
I doubt that we will get quite that big, but it just goes to show a dedicated bunch of fans can make miracles. Look at Star Trek !
Who knows, through interaction with Warner Bros, Firstones may garner enough respect to be instumental in resurecting B5 and perhaps ITF as well. Who knows, if we aim high and pour in the blood sweat and tears we may just yet do magickal things.
That's the long view.
Back to the here and now.
I've been given free rein to try and whup some arses into this project.. so whip I will.. along with 'putting in' myself.
The Web comic crew :
One director : me ( and if you want the job, by all means take it )
One writer : volunteers please, someone to work with me on building a rocking storyline.
Three CGI Artists : volunteers please
These people build the,, renders of ships and scenes.
Three Character artists : volunteers please
these people do the character art, the bits where CGI will not be able to sufficently deliver, we cannot expect the CGI guys to spend ages trying to build effective face and character studies. Good old fashioned linework and colour will suffice if we find the artists we need.
Two 'Key grips' : volunteers please
Gophers, shite kickers, resource gatherers, personal assistants etc etc etc, these people will be instrumental to sucsess, without these people... I quit.
One Lore Keeper : volunteer please
One must keep within the lines drawn by the great maker, we need someone who knows B5 canon backwards and can be relied on to answer emails whenever about what size underwear G'kar wears in episode 3445274 etc etc etc etc. We have to do this very professionally or we dont do it at all.
~~~
I plan to have a month of 'free to air' access to the webcomic, the first job of the greater FO community will be to make sure there is a huge crowd on 'opening night' so to speak. After the first month or perhaps two, the comic moves into 'paydirt territory'. We charge for our hard work, a nominal fee to have access to the continuing story. I was thinking in the vicinity of two bucks a month. Thats only fifty paid subscribers and we have covered our most basic need, survival as an entity.
We will of course have to talk sweetly to Warner Bros and make sure we have our ducks in a row with them when we go public with the comic.
Of course the webcomic is linked directly back to Firstones, a good way of securing new members. With the comic taking care of our fiscal needs we can continue to be the cool web community we have always been.
thoughts, input, volunteers please !
and spread the word 'over the border' in Mod land please.
Lets do it !
The chief rabble rouser has the floor.... me !
We have a problem.
FO is slowing dying a death of attrition. Sanfam, our long suffering leader by default is getting ready to assault College and become a 'real' student it seems, which leaves him with little time. He may well be leaving us much like Drazi did.
That leaves very little holding this place together, this side of the Modsquads anyways.
Sanfam has also been our philanthrophic benefactor, coughing up ONE HUNDRED BUCKS A MONTH to keep Firstones alive. Striker has also been a fantastic landlord not hitting us with the full 'rent' all the time, rather going into debt for us.
We cannot continue as we are.
We need some form of income and we need to get offically organised.
I hate kowtowing to the world of money as much as the rest of you. I would love Firstones to really remain just a loose association of very like minded souls, but... Firstones as an enitity 'has to eat'. To handle money we have to be a registered organisation.
Sanfam came to me and told me I was an ideas man, someone to stir the rank and file and try and get something going. I'm very happy to do so, but as I said to him,
"I aint doin SHIT till I have the support of basically all and sundry."
From there I'm confident I can breathe some new life into FO, give it back its vibrancy, purpose and power.
I will do everything in my power to make FO the place to be for Sci-fi fans in general. It's possible. I know that for a fact.
What I have to have first up is a US citizen who can legally register Firstones as a non profit organisation. We have to have that legal infrastructure to make what I have in mind work. This "Firstones" association will be essentially a very close affiliate, a 'post box' with which we can interact with banks and institutions which require this kind of thing.
This individual, whomever they are must be one of the concientious, level headed practical secretary type, male or female, it matters not.
I have no idea of the legal requirements for a non profit org are in the states is but it MUST be secured somehow if FO is to process an income which... we absolutely must have to survive.
~~~~~
part 2 - making enough to live on as an organisation.
The best way to do so is to produce changing content which every B5 and Sci fi fan can relate to and enjoy.
Firstones are talented people, inordinately skilled in some cases, we have some absolutely priceless human resources which we could use to make FO prosper and grow.
How do we do that ?
We publish a Webcomic, three times a week. We write a five year story Arc in the vein of the great maker and keep people coming back... time and time again. We generate traffic which gives us more muscle for banner ads ( tastefully applied ). We whore all the terrific talent we have to make some truly new and powerful B5 content.
Remember that even George Lucas is now scared of fanboy work in his Universe, its THAT good. He shut down an Australian fan based movie on account of it doing too well.
I doubt that we will get quite that big, but it just goes to show a dedicated bunch of fans can make miracles. Look at Star Trek !
Who knows, through interaction with Warner Bros, Firstones may garner enough respect to be instumental in resurecting B5 and perhaps ITF as well. Who knows, if we aim high and pour in the blood sweat and tears we may just yet do magickal things.
That's the long view.
Back to the here and now.
I've been given free rein to try and whup some arses into this project.. so whip I will.. along with 'putting in' myself.
The Web comic crew :
One director : me ( and if you want the job, by all means take it )
One writer : volunteers please, someone to work with me on building a rocking storyline.
Three CGI Artists : volunteers please
These people build the,, renders of ships and scenes.
Three Character artists : volunteers please
these people do the character art, the bits where CGI will not be able to sufficently deliver, we cannot expect the CGI guys to spend ages trying to build effective face and character studies. Good old fashioned linework and colour will suffice if we find the artists we need.
Two 'Key grips' : volunteers please
Gophers, shite kickers, resource gatherers, personal assistants etc etc etc, these people will be instrumental to sucsess, without these people... I quit.
One Lore Keeper : volunteer please
One must keep within the lines drawn by the great maker, we need someone who knows B5 canon backwards and can be relied on to answer emails whenever about what size underwear G'kar wears in episode 3445274 etc etc etc etc. We have to do this very professionally or we dont do it at all.
~~~
I plan to have a month of 'free to air' access to the webcomic, the first job of the greater FO community will be to make sure there is a huge crowd on 'opening night' so to speak. After the first month or perhaps two, the comic moves into 'paydirt territory'. We charge for our hard work, a nominal fee to have access to the continuing story. I was thinking in the vicinity of two bucks a month. Thats only fifty paid subscribers and we have covered our most basic need, survival as an entity.
We will of course have to talk sweetly to Warner Bros and make sure we have our ducks in a row with them when we go public with the comic.
Of course the webcomic is linked directly back to Firstones, a good way of securing new members. With the comic taking care of our fiscal needs we can continue to be the cool web community we have always been.
thoughts, input, volunteers please !
and spread the word 'over the border' in Mod land please.
Lets do it !
Comments
There are huge numbers of fans out there, running web projects - as testified to by the mods - it would be very easy to bring them online with something like this, with a good degree of solid hosting... take a nominal donation from them, nothing too steep, and you're already a good way towards covering your costs.
It's a bit more complicated than that, but if you want a hand building up, give me a shout [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Speak up buddy!
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
On what irc-server is this channel you call #firstones? I'd really like to visit... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
This is not a subliminal message. Keep walking. Thank you for not noticing.
I think most people, in the uk anyway, wouldnt mind it at say 10pm, 11 or even 12am GMT.. just a thought..
Mind you, there's one question still nagging me - would Firstones really be open to such change?
Also possibly charge a small fee to those of us who use FO for mod hosting etc....
...hell why not charge individuals a small fee, i dunno £5 a month for a bit of space and a pop/imap email addy?
I'm sure a lot of us here would go for it, I mean how many people would need to take up such an offer to pay for the site? 20 - 30 people plus adverts?
CnlPepper - Suggesting a future...
------------------
[b]HW:B5TC Dev. Team Member and B5TC Board Moderator.[/b]
[url="http://www.geocities.com/cnlpepperplanet"]CnlPepper's B5 Mod Resources[/url]
Im not too sure about charging the mod's though? Maybe ask for them to donate money, but not force. Was it Drazi who said he didnt like asking people for money to support the site? Anyway, adverts wont be a bad idea really, we get a lot out of the site and the community, its time to show our support!
At the moment they seem to be very "to the side", almost an afterthought of firstones..
Use the excellent work being done by these mods to promote firstones and babylon 5.
I think the Firstones team needs to expand aswell, Sanfam, Sam, Biggles seem to be the only people working on the site!
The other problem is most of the mods use existing games. I doubt that the publishers of those games would appreciate us making money from their products.
Worf
------------------
Captain Gideon: I thought you said you dont hold a grudge?
Galen: I dont, I have no surviving enemies...at all
Ave Primo-Populi (Hail the Firstones)
It was the mods paying for hosting which was the question.
As most people have said, the mods are a crucial aspect.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
granted I havent fleshed out the comics bones yet but still...
you fellas/lasses could show a little more interest or offer some suggestions
I'm NOT going to carry this on my own.
~~~
I only do ICQ, I've had too many problems with IRC clients
82585148
~~~
I agree that the Mods are a huge part of Firstones, I also know they are a tad cliquey and chockers with Uber Nerds. While I have no problem with either of those things, its not conducive to the more main stream Firstones and more importantly the 'fair weather' Firstones and Sci fi fans in general.
We need to hook into that market, so we can survive and perhaps even thrive.
That means using some form of web content that 'everyone' can relate to, not just the Norberts with big computers.. (so to speak, no offence).
A webcomic in other words.
We could make a tidy little sum if we did it right, which may fund all sorts of non profit ideas... keeping B5 alive... but I simply cant do it alone.
I'm confident I could get a web comic page to storyboard level every three days, then hand it on to the CGI guys for thier two cents, and finally to the character and detail artists to finish it, then its a simple template 'paste in' for the web.
I'm envisaging a serious storyline, effectively a new offshoot story set in the B5 Universe.
Probably a 12 panel page with a 'alternative' comic feel, Dark Horse sort of thing. I know there are some way cool 'cartoon' filters for 3Dsmax etc which would make it very easy for the CGI boys, and allow the character guys to easily match/blend the character work intothe panels along side them.
If you've read the Star Wars Dark horse comics you'll know what I mean, if not... go have a look.
I may even rope one of my comic artist mates in to do the character stuff... BUT... he wont lift a pen without solid backing.... we need the CGI guys....
Hell.... the Vorlons themselves could perhaps pitch in, where " I have to eat/sleep/live." doesnt get in the way.
The odd ghost write ? The odd ghost mesh ?
C'mon folks... no-one likes a pissed off Shadow Boxer right ?
I get all ranty remember....
and you dont want to see me when I'm ranty...
The e-mail/webspace solution would have been ideal - but now it's being put down for time... well, unless the people either make the time, or install people [i]with the time[/i], then you have a problem.
It's a simple system, and one that's proven to make money - at least enough to cover the server costs, which in turn gives FO the time to change itself to meet new demands.
The comic would work well as part of a more widespread site - it would need such as a platform to take off.
I would suggest something akin to an online magazine - you can update the major articles as they become older, and add a news script for small items that are in constant revision.
There's enough material to make this work - there are the mods, and other B5 communities, to pull news in from; and, once you start actively showing an interest in them, they'll start showing an interest in you [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
The current mod system needs some revision - FO has missed a massive load of chances, simply due to mismanagement; which, at one time, broke off the better part of the main modding community hosted by FO. They would be a fantastic basis to build from, but it needs a rethink.
I could get the site management scripts, for a small fee (they [i]don't[/i] come free; at least not the half decent ones - I could dig up some old ones if cost is an issue), so something like I suggested could get off the ground. Quick re-design, content up... easy [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
I mean, there's a hell of a lot this site [i]could[/i] be doing - a more officialised newsletter, merchandising, expanded hosting, community development - I'm sure, given some time, we could easily work out some sponsorship...
... the question being time - are the current staff in any way prepared to make major alterations?
And whilst we're asking question regarding money, why no PayPal? That would been a more obvious, interim, solution to any costing concerns [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Time, again?
If it's time, let more people work on it...
I can also do some "post production" work on frames (adding special effects -- beam weapons, explosions, and things that would otherwise be very timeconsuming to render).
[This message has been edited by samuelk (edited 07-01-2002).]
[b]What's the [i]exact[/i] cost on a monthly basis?
And whilst we're asking question regarding money, why no PayPal? That would been a more obvious, interim, solution to any costing concerns [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Time, again?
If it's time, let more people work on it...[/b][/quote]
The firstones Donation Contest.
MAY GOD BE WITH US!!!!!!!!!! FOR THE MISSION IS TO IMPORTANT TO FAIL!!!!!!!! WE MUST FIGHT TILL THE END!!!!!!!! AT ALL COSTS!!!!!!!!!FOR VICTORY!!!!!!!!! FOR JUSTICE!!!!!!!!! FOR THE GAGLAXY!!!!!!!! FOR THAT MATTER FOR ALL OF THE GAGLAXY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
You should merge the mod and main forums. Traffic may increase a bit. (you may be competing directly with TGU after all).
And i think its time to redesign the main page and merge ALL the ITF stuff into a single link on the side.
*hint* look at the top. :P:P
Anyhow, I haven't been collecting from Sanfam for the last 3 months. However, our company can't keep abosrbing the cost of the bandwidth, etc. anymore. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img] So, help is needed!
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Chase
Web Hosting Provider for FirstOnes.com
http://www.radiusco.com/
[b]There is a donation link via Paypal. I guess Sanfam needs to advertise it more. =)
*hint* look at the top. :P:P
Anyhow, I haven't been collecting from Sanfam for the last 3 months. However, our company can't keep abosrbing the cost of the bandwidth, etc. anymore. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img] So, help is needed!
[/b][/quote]
Thanks for what you have done already...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Just thought I'd say that since I hadn't heard it elsewhere...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
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[url="http://www.thehungersite.com"]I will extol thee, my God, O king; and I will bless thy name for ever and ever." -Psalms 145:1[/url]
[url="http://www.firstones.com"]Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope... The death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender." -G'Kar, Z'ha'Dum[/url]
[url="http://www.members.tripod.com/mtusa"]Untitled 04-29-01[/url] [url="http://www.firstones.com"]Respect my Firstone status.[/url]
[b]What exactly should a key grip or director be expected to be responsible for?
[/b][/quote]
For a Webcomic I have no idea.
In a film the Key Grip is the person in charge of the grip laborers. Also personally responsible for making sure that all of the grip equipment is accounted for - light stands, portable light grids, specialized gadgets for hanging lights on location where there's not really a place to hang a light, reflectors, scrims and their (often huge) frames, dolly track, etc. This person is also responsible for making sure that everything done under him (or her I suppose, though I’ve never met a female key grip) is done safely. If any equipment is lost or left behind, guess whose salary the replacement cost comes out of. Sometimes there's one for construction and one who works for the Gaffer, or "Juicer", or electrician. On small films there'd be just one.
The director is responsible for interpreting the script, adding a "vision" (look, sound, mood) to it, casting, knowing the script and characters intimately, having ideas going into rehearsals or production for subtext and actor movement and actor business and camera movement and framing and lenses – though camera stuff would be worked out with the camera expert – the Director of Photography – they’d better have a great relationship. Lots of people may get creative input (and smart directors will appreciate creative input), but the director has the final say. The set is not a democracy.
Though in this case its 'metaphorical' in nature.. instead of playing with actual lights on the set... the Key grip nags "X" about getting "Z" done so "Y" can get on with his job.
Perhaps Data Wrangler is better... but in the end its almost the same job... keeping everyone, including the Director in line and keeping all thier collective shit together...
these people are priceless... I'm sure Randy will agree.. its all very well to have some of the best creative brains in the buisness but you will get nowhere without 'backroom boys/girls' to keep the boilers and oilers fed...
I'll do a little food chain graphic which will explain how I see the comic team looking.
Lets just call a spade a spade...
'Chief shit kicker' will do....
As far as the position of Director goes... yup Randy has it in one.. someone has to have the power of veto or we end up with in-desicision by commitee...
As far as doing rejuventation work on this site... it aint busted... I aint fixin it.
The comic will be effectively a single page thing.... zero bullshit, with links back to the community that creates it, no varnished PR.
It also serves alot more than just revenue raising, which is our immediate problem... the other goals I have for it are much longer term...
One - we raise an income
Two - we create an opportunity for everyone at Firstones an opportunity to have some input in a community project, the comic itself. From the smallest word of mouth advertising to writing an 'episode' for the comic, doing some CGI, inventing a new ship class...whatever, in itself the project helps us stay strong.
I am aiming for this to be so slick and pro that with some words in the great makers ear... it becomes Canon. Lets face it LOTR didnt seem to re-ignite the fire... and it may be some time before anything offical appears... so, us keeping the faith lends us some creedence.
Three - we become a lot more than a fanboy squad. If we produce this webcomic to the standard I am envisaging we will have a very good standing with WB and the great maker himself. With this kind of 'whallop' all sorts of good things can happen... like games. When you build relationships with the big wheels you have half a chance to get them to turn in a direction you would like them to go.
For those of you who think we don't have the technical and creative talent to do it...
stand aside while those of us with faith prove you wrong.
thats how it goes...
the principile document to communicate with all these people is the standardised digital template based storyboard...
the Director and writer drop in the copy/text... and then scratch in some very rough positional drawings of character and ship placements and who is doing what panel ( character or CGI)
the Wrangler now looks at it... proofs the copy and ships the storyboard onto the Artists, and keeps both sections in the loop esp. if they have to do some work where they crossover.
The CGI and Character artists do thier magick. It then goes back up the food chain to the Director/Writers for final proofing and tweaking... then back down again though the Wrangler to the Webmaster for upload and publishing.
Now you can see how crucial the Wrangler is. that person is responsible for the integrity of the whole schmeer... this person also has all the files centrally located for the team.. anyone of the team can ask for and get what they need from him/her, because everyone else sends thier input through them.
This means the whole thing remains cohesive. Of course there will be times where a little direct communication between some of the others is apropriate but... in the long run, having a good Wrangler as a 'choke point' for information means everyone stays on track and in the loop.
Finding the people, developing a working relationship and 'maintaining the rage' will be a challenge but certainly not impossible.
So folks... I need people for those slots above, and remember being volunteers there will be room for some people to be 'tag team' players... filling in when someone is off 'earning a living' or other unimportant things ( [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img] ).
I have one point five CGI artists, (thanks Sam and Reaper), one Writer ( thanks Alwrich, though the more the merrier, upto a point ) and the rest is abysmally open...
Right now I need a Loremaster pronto !
And of course this project is nothing without a Wrangler...
C'mon.... lets go... !