[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sinclair [/i]
[B]You all make the assumption, that Cylons want to take that fleet out, and wants them to die... Maybe its something totally different, like leading way to earth.. Maybe there is something that they can not overcome.
If Cylons would want to take BSG down, they sure would do it easily. If there are Cylons on board, why arent they active? Why they are just travelling with them, its hard to think they travel just because they want BSG to be destroyed..
[/B][/QUOTE]
[b]Spoilers below. no need for a spoiler tag anymore, I think.[/b]
I have a question:
Did my friends and I see a totally different episode than everyone else? All three of us came out hating 2.09. We felt the directing was weak at times and the writing was even worse.
There were so many cliched scenarios, so many underdeveloped or just plain *random* moments. No lead-in and no lead-out. Things just happened abruptly and seemed to have no real motivation. Many moments felt uncaringly tossed in for the sake of provoking an emotional response in the audience, and the cast was feeling almost out of character on a regular basis.
The passage of time was completely unclear, too. And the "challenge" of building this new fighter was completely undermined by having it constructed in thirty minutes of TV-time. Not only that, but it's really fast *and* extremely stealthy.
On top of this, Sharon was able to directly interface with a [b]fibre optic cable[/b]?! Seriously, what's with that?
even worse, the entire "Cylon Assault" was trivialized by the forced introduction and automatic victory. Of course, I'm ignoring the fact that Galactica only has (had?) 40 vipers and 23 qualified pilots...far less than the massive force of both old and new (estimated to be in the high nineties and low hundreds) that we saw. Right. So they really must have had a jump in recruitment since the last episode...and found a couple hundred spare fighters in a closet somewhere.
The whole damned thing just frustrated me and my friends, and yet it seems to be one of the single "best" episodes as ranked on forum response and ratings from various sources. I don't get it. Cliched scenarios and hackneyed writing outright ruined it for me.
I'm hoping this isn't a bad omen. I'm really looking forward to Pegasus.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by sinclair [/i]
[B]You all make the assumption, that Cylons want to take that fleet out, and wants them to die... Maybe its something totally different, like leading way to earth.. Maybe there is something that they can not overcome.
If Cylons would want to take BSG down, they sure would do it easily. If there are Cylons on board, why arent they active? Why they are just travelling with them, its hard to think they travel just because they want BSG to be destroyed..
No, there is something more going on...
Some spoilers ahead for last episode, 2x9 if I remember correctly.
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Thank god the president is going to die soon, hopefully they do it quick... She is the worst person on board Galactica, I wonder does anybody really like her? I mean, she doesnt know sh*t about anything, a religious lunatic, just go already... If she happens to survive, my hope for better BSG is gone.. Same goes for Starbuck, but there is no threat on sight atm... Maybe I can live with him around, but the president.. seesh...
Seems that BSG is going for right direction, getting better and better. [/B][/QUOTE]
There is clearly a bigger plan that involves not destroying Galactica or the fleet... yet. They clearly have the force to do so but I don't think its necessarily just that easy. The fleet is always prepared to jump at the first sign of trouble. The thing is a lot of the attacks have been specifically aimed at neutralizing or destroying Galactica. Its starting to look like there are different plans among the cylons tthemselves or some of them are not let in on the greater plans. Something that Sharon has hinted at a few times. From the viewers point of view its really lame that they are just being allowed to survive and all those incredible victories against the cylons are just part of the plan. It really takes a lot out of the excitement and is downright lame so I'd like to believe thats not the case. Except for the S1 end where the basestar was obviously allowed to be destroyed, or was it...
As for the President and a lot of the other unliked characters. I think the show would suck if they let Roslin die. She's annoying as hell but thats precisely why she's there. She's supposed to be a lousy crackhead politician. Thats precisely why I like them, because they are unikable. Everybody wants their cute perfect Picards, Sheridans, original Starbuck, etc. I don't think there's any BSG character with any real redeemable qualities. Apollo is a mutineer, Baltar is a traitor, Starbuck doesn't understand the concept of chain of command, Adama lets too much slide and uses Tigh to do and take the heat for the dirty work, Roslin is a politician and a crackhead, and Tigh is a drunk and overall dislikable guy. They are real.
I think thats precisely why I dig Tigh's character so much. There is nothing to like about him but when you look at his record he's usually the one making the right decisions, saving the ship numerous times and finding the fleet again.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]There is clearly a bigger plan that involves not destroying Galactica or the fleet... yet. They clearly have the force to do so but I don't think its necessarily just that easy. The fleet is always prepared to jump at the first sign of trouble. The thing is a lot of the attacks have been specifically aimed at neutralizing or destroying Galactica. Its starting to look like there are different plans among the cylons tthemselves or some of them are not let in on the greater plans. Something that Sharon has hinted at a few times. From the viewers point of view its really lame that they are just being allowed to survive and all those incredible victories against the cylons are just part of the plan. It really takes a lot out of the excitement and is downright lame so I'd like to believe thats not the case. Except for the S1 end where the basestar was obviously allowed to be destroyed, or was it...[/B][/QUOTE]
While I'm sure there is some "greater plan," it all comes off as both weak and inconsistent. It degrades the Cylons as a viable threat and reduces/removes dramatic tension. In this particular case, it's just plain irritating and annoying. We seem to have little to no idea of what the cylons are *actually* doing.
Also, see my post above (posted roughly one minute before yours) on my gripes with how stuff was treated.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B][b]Spoilers below. no need for a spoiler tag anymore, I think.[/b]
I have a question:
Did my friends and I see a totally different episode than everyone else? All three of us came out hating 2.09. We felt the directing was weak at times and the writing was even worse.
There were so many cliched scenarios, so many underdeveloped or just plain *random* moments. No lead-in and no lead-out. Things just happened abruptly and seemed to have no real motivation. Many moments felt uncaringly tossed in for the sake of provoking an emotional response in the audience, and the cast was feeling almost out of character on a regular basis.
The passage of time was completely unclear, too. And the "challenge" of building this new fighter was completely undermined by having it constructed in thirty minutes of TV-time. Not only that, but it's really fast *and* extremely stealthy.
On top of this, Sharon was able to directly interface with a [b]fibre optic cable[/b]?! Seriously, what's with that?
The whole damned thing just frustrated me and my friends, and yet it seems to be one of the single "best" episodes as ranked on forum response and ratings from various sources. I don't get it. Cliched scenarios and hackneyed writing outright ruined it for me.
I'm hoping this isn't a bad omen. I'm really looking forward to Pegasus. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree this episode was not one of the best. It looks like it was thrown there for the feel good factor more than anything.
The Sharon fiber optic thing was way too Star Trek for me. I kept expecting Data to come out at any point. The ending was kind of sweet because of the payback but I'm with you that it was a bit cliched and easy how they got there.
The ship building I'm still not quite sure what to make of it. At the very least it was just too fast. From a practical standpoint I would say its not totally impossible. I mean stuff like complex components would be hard to build but if you're salvaging scrap parts from a whole bunch of ships its not impossible. All you really have to do is build a frame to attach the stuff to and repair the rest. Shape is of no real significance in space. All we know so far is the ship is stealthy due to the skin. It did look like Starbuck was having a bit of trouble keeping it under control at first. If its completely superior to the viper than might be too big a stretch.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]While I'm sure there is some "greater plan," it all comes off as both weak and inconsistent. It degrades the Cylons as a viable threat and reduces/removes dramatic tension. In this particular case, it's just plain irritating and annoying. We seem to have little to no idea of what the cylons are *actually* doing.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm holding out hope that the "master plan" is actually something very interesting and there's a lot more than we're being let in on so far. I'd like to think RDM also knows it would be totally weak to make the whole thing so simply lame. If we use B5 as a guide, halfway through the second season its impossible to even come close to having any idea of just how much was going to happen later on.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
The passage of time was completely unclear, too. And the "challenge" of building this new fighter was completely undermined by having it constructed in thirty minutes of TV-time. Not only that, but it's really fast *and* extremely stealthy.[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, I would say it was, indeed, [i]only[/i] that. The thing can't turn as well as a Viper, and I think they mentioned that the hull wasn't as strong as a metal ship's is. I'm also under the impression that it has no guns. With armor and armament like that, it better be fast and stealthy. Of course, it's a recon ship and not a fighter, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
As for the TV time, it seems BSG has switched from the old "one day per epsidoe" time frame to something more TVish, covering weeks at a time in these last two episodes. Hopefully, they'll go back to the old scale soon, or poor Roslin will die before the end of the next episode. If they do, though, she can last for another season and a half.
RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]
The Sharon fiber optic thing was way too Star Trek for me. I kept expecting Data to come out at any point. The ending was kind of sweet because of the payback but I'm with you that it was a bit cliched and easy how they got there. [/B][/QUOTE]
The fibre optic "port" in her hand is actually a big plot-hole, if you ask me.
Something like that MUST show up on an X-Ray or something similar, so it should have come up on any more throrough medical exam of Adama-shooting-Boomer...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RubberEagle [/i]
[B]The fibre optic "port" in her hand is actually a big plot-hole, if you ask me.
Something like that MUST show up on an X-Ray or something similar, so it should have come up on any more throrough medical exam of Adama-shooting-Boomer... [/B][/QUOTE]
Lets not forget the glowing backbone :D Has no one ever had sex doggy style with a Cylon to notice this? Its the original Cylon detector! :D Baltar was bangin' Six for two years. Didn't they ever try other positions? :P Besides, fiber optic is so yesterday. Sharon is fully Wi-Fi enabled. Why not use that? At least its in the plot already.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RubberEagle [/i]
[B]The fibre optic "port" in her hand is actually a big plot-hole, if you ask me.
Something like that MUST show up on an X-Ray or something similar, so it should have come up on any more throrough medical exam of Adama-shooting-Boomer... [/B][/QUOTE]
It pointed the way to a resolution for a plot hole for me, actually. Consider that they Cylons have superior strength, glowing spines, and telepathic powers. At the very least, one could see if a person was a Cylon just by checking for abnormally dense muscles.
But, somehow, despite these physiological changes which should be obvious, the only way to identify a Cylon is how their cells react to radiation.
But this last event was what tipped it for me; The Cylons can alter their physiology. Not enough to turn into a monster or anything, but they can switch on their superhuman abilities like a light, rearrangeing their synthetic cells to give them greater strength or lung capacity.
Or, perhaps, bioluminescence.
Remember, no matter how much you dress her up in flesh and bone, Boomer still has a mind like a computer. All she would need to do is to grow a small photoreceptor in her wrist, along with a little of that healthy Cylon glow, and she could get a job as a DSL router. Once she doesn't need them anymore, they just dissolve away like the other Cylon enhancements, leaving her an apparently normal human being.
I mean, it makes sense. Why would a mechanical race make their newest iteration incapable of interfacing with the older versions?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WORF [/i]
[B]I don't think Galactica has WiFi though.
[/B][/QUOTE]
And it won't, by the gods, until Bill Adama is dead and has been buried for at least three days. Cylons can hack into wireless networks, don't you know.
Also, does anybody here know of a good forum that RDM regulars? I am too freakin' curious regarding his take of 'Phoenix,' right to the point of blatantly asking of it :p
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]I'm holding out hope that the "master plan" is actually something very interesting and there's a lot more than we're being let in on so far. I'd like to think RDM also knows it would be totally weak to make the whole thing so simply lame. If we use B5 as a guide, halfway through the second season its impossible to even come close to having any idea of just how much was going to happen later on. [/B][/QUOTE]
The only problem here is that while there may indeed be a master plan, all it takes is one horrible episode (like that last one) to throw a wrench into the plot and bring it to a screeching halt. It's happened before, and it could happen again. Worse, these types of episodes can rarely be ignored, often due to the simple fact that they forcibly try to achieve so much in a very short period of time. Doing so causes the episode in question to become critical to the rest of the plot, especially in arc-based shows. Were it not for the fighter being built, I'd say we could completely ignore this whole episode and be perfectly safe. Also, what the hell is it with these two writers and the virus? They really like it.
As far as I can tell (through reading forums, blogs, and listening to podcasts), the show is running more-or-less on "automagic" mode, with minimal long-term arc planning, letting stories pan out however they feel. This makes me worry that such a problem could exist here, and spell much pain in an attempt to recover from this piss-poor introduction of new plot threads.
I'm still amazed at how many people truly loved this episode...ranking it up there with "Hand of God" and "Kobol's Last Gleaming."
I'm kinda digging how the humanoid Cylons see themselves though. Remember, during Home II Sharon said "They don't see us as people" or something. And the way the season has dropped subtle lines like "Can you love a machine?". It reminds me of, eek, Star Trek, but in a good way - Recall the thing with holograms rights, and how "real" they actually are? I'm getting a kind of tragic feeling from the show in regards to humanoid cylons. Sure, they are evil. So are humans from time to time. The question is how it'll all end up.... Personally I think they'll all end up quite dead, but at the same time being regarded as "people" instead of "just machines"?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]
I'm still amazed at how many people truly loved this episode...ranking it up there with "Hand of God" and "Kobol's Last Gleaming."
[/B][/QUOTE]
IMO, after the episode "2x5 The Farm" everything is better.. Worst ep in BSG, and I wonder the same thing about that.. How come it has so high rankings?
About that *new* ship they made, I thought it would be cool to see it after couple eps when its finished.. but wtf, they built it in the same episode? ... But I let it go as a TV-moment, perhaps it is so desperately needed in next episode.. Still, I gave the episode 8/10. In [url]www.geos.tv[/url]
I think the biggest problem with this episode is currently a lot of the plot lines developed since S1 all have been mostly tied up earlier in S2. Everything is in limbo now waiting for something to happen. The Xena episode was the first real breather episode which kinda stands alone without having to be too linked to the plot. This was another one, and IMO the first truly weak episode of the series. The Farm came off as a bit cheesy with the people tied up to the machines. RDM commented that he really wished he would not have played that scene like that at all. The episode itself wasn't all that bad.
JMS once commented there were certain episodes in B5 he wishes he could quietly nudge of a pier and forget they existed. Most notably Gray 17 is Missing. I have a feeling this episode might be one of those Gray 17's :D
The Pegasus episodes should bring things back to life. The show needs new plot twists and thats sure to give it what it needs. Cain being an Admiral is sure to make a good mess of things now that the fleet is as united as ever. The only thing I know I won't like is it will end in a cliffhanger and we'll have to wait to next year when the season continues. :mad:
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]Also, does anybody here know of a good forum that RDM regulars? I am too freakin' curious regarding his take of 'Phoenix,' right to the point of blatantly asking of it :p [/B][/QUOTE]
Your best shot is probably the BSG Blog thread in the scifi.com boards. He usually answers a lot of questions like that in his blog whenever he decides to update it.
We do realise now that they have the super fighter, the wars over. All chief has to do is build a few more in his spare time and bam, lots of fracked toasters! ;) Certainly was a weak episode imo, started ok but then went a bit flop. Hope they bounce back from this one.
On the discussion of the remaining Cylons on board, has anybody considered the possibility that Baltar is a Cylon himself? I mean if you think about it, they could have replaced the original Baltar 2 years ago, right when he started seeing tastey blonde girl. One thing that has bugged me since the pilot was the way Baltar survived the blast near his home. Now to me no one walks away with a few cuts after that shockwave. Sure Cylon girl shielded him a bit, but I'm pretty sure both of them got killed. We never did see what happened afterwards... all we did see was Baltar running through the fields with other survivors. So I reckon Baltar is a Cylon, one who doesn't realise he is one and they are using him as the perfect mole. Everyone on board knows he's weird, and because of that they ignore him. And now he is Vice-President. Seems perfect to try and attempt putting a human Cylon as head of state. My 2 cents anyway.
Btw such a relief to have the full themes back. I like the new opener for Atlantis, very swish.
I rewatched the episode on monday and noticed a few things. The issue of the new fighter is addressed in David Eicks video blog. The idea was that Tyroll would try to build a new Viper equivalent but realizes that would be impossible. Instead they just end up coming with a complete new breed. Its not very manuverable, it has no guns, but its fast. And thanks to Helo, its now stealth. They have now a high speed recon vehicle which just happens to be black long and and fast called the Blackbird. Didn't see that one comming :rolleyes:
One new what the fuck moment I noticed was when the large Viper force was heading towards the cylons. Did anyone notice they had dozens if not as many Mark VII's as Mark II's in the air, err space? I thought it was established that pretty much all the Mark VII's on galactica were wiped out in the initial strike except for Apollo's which was in Galactica as he escorted Colonial 1 in Adama's original Mark II.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Falcon1 [/i]
[B]Btw such a relief to have the full themes back. I like the new opener for Atlantis, very swish. [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]I rewatched the episode on monday and noticed a few things. The issue of the new fighter is addressed in David Eicks video blog. The idea was that Tyroll would try to build a new Viper equivalent but realizes that would be impossible. Instead they just end up coming with a complete new breed. Its not very manuverable, it has no guns, but its fast. And thanks to Helo, its now stealth. They have now a high speed recon vehicle which just happens to be black long and and fast called the Blackbird. Didn't see that one comming :rolleyes:
One new what the fuck moment I noticed was when the large Viper force was heading towards the cylons. Did anyone notice they had dozens if not as many Mark VII's as Mark II's in the air, err space? I thought it was established that pretty much all the Mark VII's on galactica were wiped out in the initial strike except for Apollo's which was in Galactica as he escorted Colonial 1 in Adama's original Mark II. [/B][/QUOTE]
The first part was still badly executed. It'd be nice if they *told* us about that first part in the episode, perhaps. I felt like i was being short-handed the entire run anyway.
As for the second part, I sort of implied that in my message above. or maybe not. I probably didn't, but yeah...
Either they're accidentially using CGI from what's intended to be *far* later in the run, or the CGI folks were *also* in on the drunken writing party.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Falcon1 [/i]
[B]We do realise now that they have the super fighter, the wars over. All chief has to do is build a few more in his spare time and bam, lots of fracked toasters! ;)[/quote][/b]
It'd be a fun episode to see a bunch of ships without guns lay waste to the Cylon menace. ;)
[b][quote]On the discussion of the remaining Cylons on board, has anybody considered the possibility that Baltar is a Cylon himself? I mean if you think about it, they could have replaced the original Baltar 2 years ago, right when he started seeing tastey blonde girl. One thing that has bugged me since the pilot was the way Baltar survived the blast near his home. Now to me no one walks away with a few cuts after that shockwave. Sure Cylon girl shielded him a bit, but I'm pretty sure both of them got killed. We never did see what happened afterwards... all we did see was Baltar running through the fields with other survivors. So I reckon Baltar is a Cylon, one who doesn't realise he is one and they are using him as the perfect mole. Everyone on board knows he's weird, and because of that they ignore him. And now he is Vice-President. Seems perfect to try and attempt putting a human Cylon as head of state. My 2 cents anyway. [/quote][/b]
Actually, I heard a variant theory, that Baltar was given a duplicate Cylon body after the attacks. The key evidence is that he probably couldn't have survived a nuclear shockwave, he was wearing different clothes when he was with the other survivors trying to hitch a ride with Boomer, and that he can see Six without an obvious chip. There's also the fun little bit that Baltar would probably never think to test himself with the Cylon detector.
An intriguing possibility.
[quote]
[b]Btw such a relief to have the full themes back. I like the new opener for Atlantis, very swish. [/B][/QUOTE]
For him who asked, the full themes won't be airing in the US until the new episodes in January. The Atlantis theme has already debuted in Canada, but I don't believe anyone has seen the new SG-1 theme yet.
And the Atlantis one is really cool. Lots of great transitions. There's a cool one where they make it look like the Daedalus is jumping in over the picture, and another where a pair of lights on a spire of Atlantis become a Wraith's eyes.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]I thought it was established that pretty much all the Mark VII's on galactica were wiped out in the initial strike except for Apollo's which was in Galactica as he escorted Colonial 1 in Adama's original Mark II. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure there were more Mark VII's that survived. I can't find any specific references, aside from the fact that in the miniseries Gaeta mentioned taking Baltar's compromised Command Navigation Program out of the "newer Vipers," and since it was a plot point that the Mark II's were so old they couldn't even have the CNP installed, I'm guessing he was referring to multiple Mark VII's.
There were still most definitely too many ships in that shot, though.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by David of Mac [/i]
[B][/b]
I'm pretty sure there were more Mark VII's that survived. I can't find any specific references, aside from the fact that in the miniseries Gaeta mentioned taking Baltar's compromised Command Navigation Program out of the "newer Vipers," and since it was a plot point that the Mark II's were so old they couldn't even have the CNP installed, I'm guessing he was referring to multiple Mark VII's.
There were still most definitely too many ships in that shot, though. [/B][/QUOTE]
It could be a plot point but I'm sure more than any thing it was just a CGI screw up. If the screw up wasn't on this episode then it was earlier. The Episode in question would be Hand of God. Anybody remember them stating ALL fighters were on the board? There wasn't a single Mark VII to be seen. Furthermore why would they take on such an important attack with the Mark II's when they have so many Mark VII's available. I know this more than anything probably has to do with the time it takes to do the CGI scenes and coordination between the writers but they should be more carefull about those details in the future. I honestly thought that many Mark VII's were the prelude to making contact with Pegasus fighters.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]I honestly thought that many Mark VII's were the prelude to making contact with Pegasus fighters. [/B][/QUOTE]
That thought had crossed my mind, but sort of in a "The future is the past" (or some equally confusing crap) way. I'm really wondering if maybe they just didn't have the time to render a proper shot for the *current* situation, and instead settled for a higher volume future shot which would likely be of higher priority, anyway? It's pushing it a bit, but maybe these were meant to be used, in part, with the Pegasus stuff? There's no other logical thought process to support it. Nothing at all.
Thinking about it the number of Vipers themselves are not wrong. In one of the episodes Apollo mentions they had something like 39 working vipers left but only 20 something active pilots. The mark VII's are supposed to be very difficult to fly for inexperienced pilots which might explain why they are not used as often. RDM mentioned they are keeping accurate count on how many they have available and destroyed. Nevertheless the Mark VII count was still of which does lead me to believe as you say they just used footage from a future scene.
It just hit me what this episode really needed. If they were ever to get Dirk Benedict to do a guest appearance this should have been it. He should have played a big role in the Blackbird's construction. When it was done he would say "I love it when a plan comes together". Bonus points to whoever can figure that one out :D
Even the Mk II's were *FAR* above the count they should have been. 37-39 vipers stocked, assuming there were ten or so nuggets to bring the capacity to 30-ish does not produce almost 70. I seriously need to get my hands on that episode for an accurate count. Off-hand, though, it was just too damned high. Especially with the Mk Vii's ;)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]Even the Mk II's were *FAR* above the count they should have been. 37-39 vipers stocked, assuming there were ten or so nuggets to bring the capacity to 30-ish does not produce almost 70. I seriously need to get my hands on that episode for an accurate count. Off-hand, though, it was just too damned high. Especially with the Mk Vii's ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Somebody did already. Seems the concensus is there were 42 ships on screen. A bit off by 5 or 6 but nearly half were Mark VII's which doesn't make any sense.
And yes that was from the A-Team. This episode reminded me of that. Remember how they would always build some contraption at the end of the episode? :D Seeing them build that ship was like watching the A-Team again :P
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]Somebody did already. Seems the concensus is there were 42 ships on screen. A bit off by 5 or 6 but nearly half were Mark VII's which doesn't make any sense.
And yes that was from the A-Team. This episode reminded me of that. Remember how they would always build some contraption at the end of the episode? :D Seeing them build that ship was like watching the A-Team again :P [/B][/QUOTE]
BA can build a tank, APC, or anything else with wheels and armor from anything. He's the Macgyver of assault vehicles.
Comments
[B]You all make the assumption, that Cylons want to take that fleet out, and wants them to die... Maybe its something totally different, like leading way to earth.. Maybe there is something that they can not overcome.
If Cylons would want to take BSG down, they sure would do it easily. If there are Cylons on board, why arent they active? Why they are just travelling with them, its hard to think they travel just because they want BSG to be destroyed..
[/B][/QUOTE]
I didnt :)
I have a question:
Did my friends and I see a totally different episode than everyone else? All three of us came out hating 2.09. We felt the directing was weak at times and the writing was even worse.
There were so many cliched scenarios, so many underdeveloped or just plain *random* moments. No lead-in and no lead-out. Things just happened abruptly and seemed to have no real motivation. Many moments felt uncaringly tossed in for the sake of provoking an emotional response in the audience, and the cast was feeling almost out of character on a regular basis.
The passage of time was completely unclear, too. And the "challenge" of building this new fighter was completely undermined by having it constructed in thirty minutes of TV-time. Not only that, but it's really fast *and* extremely stealthy.
On top of this, Sharon was able to directly interface with a [b]fibre optic cable[/b]?! Seriously, what's with that?
even worse, the entire "Cylon Assault" was trivialized by the forced introduction and automatic victory. Of course, I'm ignoring the fact that Galactica only has (had?) 40 vipers and 23 qualified pilots...far less than the massive force of both old and new (estimated to be in the high nineties and low hundreds) that we saw. Right. So they really must have had a jump in recruitment since the last episode...and found a couple hundred spare fighters in a closet somewhere.
The whole damned thing just frustrated me and my friends, and yet it seems to be one of the single "best" episodes as ranked on forum response and ratings from various sources. I don't get it. Cliched scenarios and hackneyed writing outright ruined it for me.
I'm hoping this isn't a bad omen. I'm really looking forward to Pegasus.
[B]You all make the assumption, that Cylons want to take that fleet out, and wants them to die... Maybe its something totally different, like leading way to earth.. Maybe there is something that they can not overcome.
If Cylons would want to take BSG down, they sure would do it easily. If there are Cylons on board, why arent they active? Why they are just travelling with them, its hard to think they travel just because they want BSG to be destroyed..
No, there is something more going on...
Some spoilers ahead for last episode, 2x9 if I remember correctly.
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Thank god the president is going to die soon, hopefully they do it quick... She is the worst person on board Galactica, I wonder does anybody really like her? I mean, she doesnt know sh*t about anything, a religious lunatic, just go already... If she happens to survive, my hope for better BSG is gone.. Same goes for Starbuck, but there is no threat on sight atm... Maybe I can live with him around, but the president.. seesh...
Seems that BSG is going for right direction, getting better and better. [/B][/QUOTE]
There is clearly a bigger plan that involves not destroying Galactica or the fleet... yet. They clearly have the force to do so but I don't think its necessarily just that easy. The fleet is always prepared to jump at the first sign of trouble. The thing is a lot of the attacks have been specifically aimed at neutralizing or destroying Galactica. Its starting to look like there are different plans among the cylons tthemselves or some of them are not let in on the greater plans. Something that Sharon has hinted at a few times. From the viewers point of view its really lame that they are just being allowed to survive and all those incredible victories against the cylons are just part of the plan. It really takes a lot out of the excitement and is downright lame so I'd like to believe thats not the case. Except for the S1 end where the basestar was obviously allowed to be destroyed, or was it...
As for the President and a lot of the other unliked characters. I think the show would suck if they let Roslin die. She's annoying as hell but thats precisely why she's there. She's supposed to be a lousy crackhead politician. Thats precisely why I like them, because they are unikable. Everybody wants their cute perfect Picards, Sheridans, original Starbuck, etc. I don't think there's any BSG character with any real redeemable qualities. Apollo is a mutineer, Baltar is a traitor, Starbuck doesn't understand the concept of chain of command, Adama lets too much slide and uses Tigh to do and take the heat for the dirty work, Roslin is a politician and a crackhead, and Tigh is a drunk and overall dislikable guy. They are real.
I think thats precisely why I dig Tigh's character so much. There is nothing to like about him but when you look at his record he's usually the one making the right decisions, saving the ship numerous times and finding the fleet again.
[B]There is clearly a bigger plan that involves not destroying Galactica or the fleet... yet. They clearly have the force to do so but I don't think its necessarily just that easy. The fleet is always prepared to jump at the first sign of trouble. The thing is a lot of the attacks have been specifically aimed at neutralizing or destroying Galactica. Its starting to look like there are different plans among the cylons tthemselves or some of them are not let in on the greater plans. Something that Sharon has hinted at a few times. From the viewers point of view its really lame that they are just being allowed to survive and all those incredible victories against the cylons are just part of the plan. It really takes a lot out of the excitement and is downright lame so I'd like to believe thats not the case. Except for the S1 end where the basestar was obviously allowed to be destroyed, or was it...[/B][/QUOTE]
While I'm sure there is some "greater plan," it all comes off as both weak and inconsistent. It degrades the Cylons as a viable threat and reduces/removes dramatic tension. In this particular case, it's just plain irritating and annoying. We seem to have little to no idea of what the cylons are *actually* doing.
Also, see my post above (posted roughly one minute before yours) on my gripes with how stuff was treated.
[B][b]Spoilers below. no need for a spoiler tag anymore, I think.[/b]
I have a question:
Did my friends and I see a totally different episode than everyone else? All three of us came out hating 2.09. We felt the directing was weak at times and the writing was even worse.
There were so many cliched scenarios, so many underdeveloped or just plain *random* moments. No lead-in and no lead-out. Things just happened abruptly and seemed to have no real motivation. Many moments felt uncaringly tossed in for the sake of provoking an emotional response in the audience, and the cast was feeling almost out of character on a regular basis.
The passage of time was completely unclear, too. And the "challenge" of building this new fighter was completely undermined by having it constructed in thirty minutes of TV-time. Not only that, but it's really fast *and* extremely stealthy.
On top of this, Sharon was able to directly interface with a [b]fibre optic cable[/b]?! Seriously, what's with that?
The whole damned thing just frustrated me and my friends, and yet it seems to be one of the single "best" episodes as ranked on forum response and ratings from various sources. I don't get it. Cliched scenarios and hackneyed writing outright ruined it for me.
I'm hoping this isn't a bad omen. I'm really looking forward to Pegasus. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree this episode was not one of the best. It looks like it was thrown there for the feel good factor more than anything.
The Sharon fiber optic thing was way too Star Trek for me. I kept expecting Data to come out at any point. The ending was kind of sweet because of the payback but I'm with you that it was a bit cliched and easy how they got there.
The ship building I'm still not quite sure what to make of it. At the very least it was just too fast. From a practical standpoint I would say its not totally impossible. I mean stuff like complex components would be hard to build but if you're salvaging scrap parts from a whole bunch of ships its not impossible. All you really have to do is build a frame to attach the stuff to and repair the rest. Shape is of no real significance in space. All we know so far is the ship is stealthy due to the skin. It did look like Starbuck was having a bit of trouble keeping it under control at first. If its completely superior to the viper than might be too big a stretch.
[B]While I'm sure there is some "greater plan," it all comes off as both weak and inconsistent. It degrades the Cylons as a viable threat and reduces/removes dramatic tension. In this particular case, it's just plain irritating and annoying. We seem to have little to no idea of what the cylons are *actually* doing.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm holding out hope that the "master plan" is actually something very interesting and there's a lot more than we're being let in on so far. I'd like to think RDM also knows it would be totally weak to make the whole thing so simply lame. If we use B5 as a guide, halfway through the second season its impossible to even come close to having any idea of just how much was going to happen later on.
The passage of time was completely unclear, too. And the "challenge" of building this new fighter was completely undermined by having it constructed in thirty minutes of TV-time. Not only that, but it's really fast *and* extremely stealthy.[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, I would say it was, indeed, [i]only[/i] that. The thing can't turn as well as a Viper, and I think they mentioned that the hull wasn't as strong as a metal ship's is. I'm also under the impression that it has no guns. With armor and armament like that, it better be fast and stealthy. Of course, it's a recon ship and not a fighter, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
As for the TV time, it seems BSG has switched from the old "one day per epsidoe" time frame to something more TVish, covering weeks at a time in these last two episodes. Hopefully, they'll go back to the old scale soon, or poor Roslin will die before the end of the next episode. If they do, though, she can last for another season and a half.
[B]
The Sharon fiber optic thing was way too Star Trek for me. I kept expecting Data to come out at any point. The ending was kind of sweet because of the payback but I'm with you that it was a bit cliched and easy how they got there. [/B][/QUOTE]
The fibre optic "port" in her hand is actually a big plot-hole, if you ask me.
Something like that MUST show up on an X-Ray or something similar, so it should have come up on any more throrough medical exam of Adama-shooting-Boomer...
[B]The fibre optic "port" in her hand is actually a big plot-hole, if you ask me.
Something like that MUST show up on an X-Ray or something similar, so it should have come up on any more throrough medical exam of Adama-shooting-Boomer... [/B][/QUOTE]
Lets not forget the glowing backbone :D Has no one ever had sex doggy style with a Cylon to notice this? Its the original Cylon detector! :D Baltar was bangin' Six for two years. Didn't they ever try other positions? :P Besides, fiber optic is so yesterday. Sharon is fully Wi-Fi enabled. Why not use that? At least its in the plot already.
Worf
[B]The fibre optic "port" in her hand is actually a big plot-hole, if you ask me.
Something like that MUST show up on an X-Ray or something similar, so it should have come up on any more throrough medical exam of Adama-shooting-Boomer... [/B][/QUOTE]
It pointed the way to a resolution for a plot hole for me, actually. Consider that they Cylons have superior strength, glowing spines, and telepathic powers. At the very least, one could see if a person was a Cylon just by checking for abnormally dense muscles.
But, somehow, despite these physiological changes which should be obvious, the only way to identify a Cylon is how their cells react to radiation.
But this last event was what tipped it for me; The Cylons can alter their physiology. Not enough to turn into a monster or anything, but they can switch on their superhuman abilities like a light, rearrangeing their synthetic cells to give them greater strength or lung capacity.
Or, perhaps, bioluminescence.
Remember, no matter how much you dress her up in flesh and bone, Boomer still has a mind like a computer. All she would need to do is to grow a small photoreceptor in her wrist, along with a little of that healthy Cylon glow, and she could get a job as a DSL router. Once she doesn't need them anymore, they just dissolve away like the other Cylon enhancements, leaving her an apparently normal human being.
I mean, it makes sense. Why would a mechanical race make their newest iteration incapable of interfacing with the older versions?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by WORF [/i]
[B]I don't think Galactica has WiFi though.
[/B][/QUOTE]
And it won't, by the gods, until Bill Adama is dead and has been buried for at least three days. Cylons can hack into wireless networks, don't you know.
[B]I'm holding out hope that the "master plan" is actually something very interesting and there's a lot more than we're being let in on so far. I'd like to think RDM also knows it would be totally weak to make the whole thing so simply lame. If we use B5 as a guide, halfway through the second season its impossible to even come close to having any idea of just how much was going to happen later on. [/B][/QUOTE]
The only problem here is that while there may indeed be a master plan, all it takes is one horrible episode (like that last one) to throw a wrench into the plot and bring it to a screeching halt. It's happened before, and it could happen again. Worse, these types of episodes can rarely be ignored, often due to the simple fact that they forcibly try to achieve so much in a very short period of time. Doing so causes the episode in question to become critical to the rest of the plot, especially in arc-based shows. Were it not for the fighter being built, I'd say we could completely ignore this whole episode and be perfectly safe. Also, what the hell is it with these two writers and the virus? They really like it.
As far as I can tell (through reading forums, blogs, and listening to podcasts), the show is running more-or-less on "automagic" mode, with minimal long-term arc planning, letting stories pan out however they feel. This makes me worry that such a problem could exist here, and spell much pain in an attempt to recover from this piss-poor introduction of new plot threads.
I'm still amazed at how many people truly loved this episode...ranking it up there with "Hand of God" and "Kobol's Last Gleaming."
I'm getting all antsy with 'Pegasus' nearing...
[B]
I'm still amazed at how many people truly loved this episode...ranking it up there with "Hand of God" and "Kobol's Last Gleaming."
[/B][/QUOTE]
IMO, after the episode "2x5 The Farm" everything is better.. Worst ep in BSG, and I wonder the same thing about that.. How come it has so high rankings?
About that *new* ship they made, I thought it would be cool to see it after couple eps when its finished.. but wtf, they built it in the same episode? ... But I let it go as a TV-moment, perhaps it is so desperately needed in next episode.. Still, I gave the episode 8/10. In [url]www.geos.tv[/url]
JMS once commented there were certain episodes in B5 he wishes he could quietly nudge of a pier and forget they existed. Most notably Gray 17 is Missing. I have a feeling this episode might be one of those Gray 17's :D
The Pegasus episodes should bring things back to life. The show needs new plot twists and thats sure to give it what it needs. Cain being an Admiral is sure to make a good mess of things now that the fleet is as united as ever. The only thing I know I won't like is it will end in a cliffhanger and we'll have to wait to next year when the season continues. :mad:
[B]Also, does anybody here know of a good forum that RDM regulars? I am too freakin' curious regarding his take of 'Phoenix,' right to the point of blatantly asking of it :p [/B][/QUOTE]
Your best shot is probably the BSG Blog thread in the scifi.com boards. He usually answers a lot of questions like that in his blog whenever he decides to update it.
On the discussion of the remaining Cylons on board, has anybody considered the possibility that Baltar is a Cylon himself? I mean if you think about it, they could have replaced the original Baltar 2 years ago, right when he started seeing tastey blonde girl. One thing that has bugged me since the pilot was the way Baltar survived the blast near his home. Now to me no one walks away with a few cuts after that shockwave. Sure Cylon girl shielded him a bit, but I'm pretty sure both of them got killed. We never did see what happened afterwards... all we did see was Baltar running through the fields with other survivors. So I reckon Baltar is a Cylon, one who doesn't realise he is one and they are using him as the perfect mole. Everyone on board knows he's weird, and because of that they ignore him. And now he is Vice-President. Seems perfect to try and attempt putting a human Cylon as head of state. My 2 cents anyway.
Btw such a relief to have the full themes back. I like the new opener for Atlantis, very swish.
One new what the fuck moment I noticed was when the large Viper force was heading towards the cylons. Did anyone notice they had dozens if not as many Mark VII's as Mark II's in the air, err space? I thought it was established that pretty much all the Mark VII's on galactica were wiped out in the initial strike except for Apollo's which was in Galactica as he escorted Colonial 1 in Adama's original Mark II.
[B]Btw such a relief to have the full themes back. I like the new opener for Atlantis, very swish. [/B][/QUOTE]
What? When did that happen?
Worf
[B]I rewatched the episode on monday and noticed a few things. The issue of the new fighter is addressed in David Eicks video blog. The idea was that Tyroll would try to build a new Viper equivalent but realizes that would be impossible. Instead they just end up coming with a complete new breed. Its not very manuverable, it has no guns, but its fast. And thanks to Helo, its now stealth. They have now a high speed recon vehicle which just happens to be black long and and fast called the Blackbird. Didn't see that one comming :rolleyes:
One new what the fuck moment I noticed was when the large Viper force was heading towards the cylons. Did anyone notice they had dozens if not as many Mark VII's as Mark II's in the air, err space? I thought it was established that pretty much all the Mark VII's on galactica were wiped out in the initial strike except for Apollo's which was in Galactica as he escorted Colonial 1 in Adama's original Mark II. [/B][/QUOTE]
The first part was still badly executed. It'd be nice if they *told* us about that first part in the episode, perhaps. I felt like i was being short-handed the entire run anyway.
As for the second part, I sort of implied that in my message above. or maybe not. I probably didn't, but yeah...
Either they're accidentially using CGI from what's intended to be *far* later in the run, or the CGI folks were *also* in on the drunken writing party.
[B]We do realise now that they have the super fighter, the wars over. All chief has to do is build a few more in his spare time and bam, lots of fracked toasters! ;)[/quote][/b]
It'd be a fun episode to see a bunch of ships without guns lay waste to the Cylon menace. ;)
[b][quote]On the discussion of the remaining Cylons on board, has anybody considered the possibility that Baltar is a Cylon himself? I mean if you think about it, they could have replaced the original Baltar 2 years ago, right when he started seeing tastey blonde girl. One thing that has bugged me since the pilot was the way Baltar survived the blast near his home. Now to me no one walks away with a few cuts after that shockwave. Sure Cylon girl shielded him a bit, but I'm pretty sure both of them got killed. We never did see what happened afterwards... all we did see was Baltar running through the fields with other survivors. So I reckon Baltar is a Cylon, one who doesn't realise he is one and they are using him as the perfect mole. Everyone on board knows he's weird, and because of that they ignore him. And now he is Vice-President. Seems perfect to try and attempt putting a human Cylon as head of state. My 2 cents anyway. [/quote][/b]
Actually, I heard a variant theory, that Baltar was given a duplicate Cylon body after the attacks. The key evidence is that he probably couldn't have survived a nuclear shockwave, he was wearing different clothes when he was with the other survivors trying to hitch a ride with Boomer, and that he can see Six without an obvious chip. There's also the fun little bit that Baltar would probably never think to test himself with the Cylon detector.
An intriguing possibility.
[quote]
[b]Btw such a relief to have the full themes back. I like the new opener for Atlantis, very swish. [/B][/QUOTE]
For him who asked, the full themes won't be airing in the US until the new episodes in January. The Atlantis theme has already debuted in Canada, but I don't believe anyone has seen the new SG-1 theme yet.
And the Atlantis one is really cool. Lots of great transitions. There's a cool one where they make it look like the Daedalus is jumping in over the picture, and another where a pair of lights on a spire of Atlantis become a Wraith's eyes.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vorlons in my Head [/i]
[B]I thought it was established that pretty much all the Mark VII's on galactica were wiped out in the initial strike except for Apollo's which was in Galactica as he escorted Colonial 1 in Adama's original Mark II. [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure there were more Mark VII's that survived. I can't find any specific references, aside from the fact that in the miniseries Gaeta mentioned taking Baltar's compromised Command Navigation Program out of the "newer Vipers," and since it was a plot point that the Mark II's were so old they couldn't even have the CNP installed, I'm guessing he was referring to multiple Mark VII's.
There were still most definitely too many ships in that shot, though.
[B][/b]
I'm pretty sure there were more Mark VII's that survived. I can't find any specific references, aside from the fact that in the miniseries Gaeta mentioned taking Baltar's compromised Command Navigation Program out of the "newer Vipers," and since it was a plot point that the Mark II's were so old they couldn't even have the CNP installed, I'm guessing he was referring to multiple Mark VII's.
There were still most definitely too many ships in that shot, though. [/B][/QUOTE]
It could be a plot point but I'm sure more than any thing it was just a CGI screw up. If the screw up wasn't on this episode then it was earlier. The Episode in question would be Hand of God. Anybody remember them stating ALL fighters were on the board? There wasn't a single Mark VII to be seen. Furthermore why would they take on such an important attack with the Mark II's when they have so many Mark VII's available. I know this more than anything probably has to do with the time it takes to do the CGI scenes and coordination between the writers but they should be more carefull about those details in the future. I honestly thought that many Mark VII's were the prelude to making contact with Pegasus fighters.
[B]I honestly thought that many Mark VII's were the prelude to making contact with Pegasus fighters. [/B][/QUOTE]
That thought had crossed my mind, but sort of in a "The future is the past" (or some equally confusing crap) way. I'm really wondering if maybe they just didn't have the time to render a proper shot for the *current* situation, and instead settled for a higher volume future shot which would likely be of higher priority, anyway? It's pushing it a bit, but maybe these were meant to be used, in part, with the Pegasus stuff? There's no other logical thought process to support it. Nothing at all.
It just hit me what this episode really needed. If they were ever to get Dirk Benedict to do a guest appearance this should have been it. He should have played a big role in the Blackbird's construction. When it was done he would say "I love it when a plan comes together". Bonus points to whoever can figure that one out :D
A team right?
It would be fitting to kind of a nod to the Ateam because every single episode of the Ateam had a nod to Battlestar Gallactica.
Even more bonus points to whoever can point out that one.
[B]Even the Mk II's were *FAR* above the count they should have been. 37-39 vipers stocked, assuming there were ten or so nuggets to bring the capacity to 30-ish does not produce almost 70. I seriously need to get my hands on that episode for an accurate count. Off-hand, though, it was just too damned high. Especially with the Mk Vii's ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Somebody did already. Seems the concensus is there were 42 ships on screen. A bit off by 5 or 6 but nearly half were Mark VII's which doesn't make any sense.
And yes that was from the A-Team. This episode reminded me of that. Remember how they would always build some contraption at the end of the episode? :D Seeing them build that ship was like watching the A-Team again :P
[B]Somebody did already. Seems the concensus is there were 42 ships on screen. A bit off by 5 or 6 but nearly half were Mark VII's which doesn't make any sense.
And yes that was from the A-Team. This episode reminded me of that. Remember how they would always build some contraption at the end of the episode? :D Seeing them build that ship was like watching the A-Team again :P [/B][/QUOTE]
BA can build a tank, APC, or anything else with wheels and armor from anything. He's the Macgyver of assault vehicles.