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And now Kansas...
Random Chaos
Actually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
in Zocalo v2.0
And now Kansas...
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/04/AR2005050402022.html[/url]
[QUOTE]Teachers, Scientists Vow to Fight Challenge to Evolution
Creationists Seek Curriculum Change; Kan. Education Hearings Open Today
By Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 5, 2005; Page A03
TOPEKA, Kan., May 4 -- Alarmed by proposals to change how evolution is taught, scientists and teachers are mobilizing to fight back, asserting that educational standards are being threatened by what they consider a stealth campaign to return creationism to public schools.[/QUOTE]
See link for full article.
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/04/AR2005050402022.html[/url]
[QUOTE]Teachers, Scientists Vow to Fight Challenge to Evolution
Creationists Seek Curriculum Change; Kan. Education Hearings Open Today
By Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 5, 2005; Page A03
TOPEKA, Kan., May 4 -- Alarmed by proposals to change how evolution is taught, scientists and teachers are mobilizing to fight back, asserting that educational standards are being threatened by what they consider a stealth campaign to return creationism to public schools.[/QUOTE]
See link for full article.
Comments
Jake
Was always sure of why I never went back there. Wonder if my dad still lives there...
Not!
On the topic at hand, why can't both be presented and leave it at that?
Here is the reasoning why:
Under the scientific method taught starting in elementary school everything can be shown through evidence or disproven through evidence. Using this one can show, through evidence, that there are fossile remains far older then any creationist theory, and further, that fossil remains show macroevolutionary traits between different recovered fossils.
Therefore one can prove, fairly simply, that science does not support creationism.
However one can show that science supports the current theory of evolution, though with a few hiccups still. Currently there is no evidence contradicting evolution beyond religious dogma. One of the last issues dealing with challenges to evolution was recently overcome as a post by Biggles indicated.
If someone wants to teach creationism under the scientific method only to prove it wrong, go right ahead! I'd love to see the religious right scream a fit over that! :)
----
However, Creationists say that the science backing evolution and disproving creationism is a farse, nothing more then an illusion.
Therefore in order to teach creationism to their satisfaction a counter philosophy of the world must be taught, that of Plato's "Allegory of the Cave." Basically, that everything may be an illusion of something greater. This also would play into some of what Descartes discusses.
The problem? That is two-fold:
1. This doesn't prove or disprove anything. It basically says that everything you observe is an illusion, therefore nothing may exist beyond you. The only saving grace being Descartes's trust in "God" that allows him to leap from "I think therefore I am" to "Others exist." But this would be virtually impossible to teach in schools due to the connection to religion.
2. Philosophy as a whole is avoided almost as much as theology for teaching in schools. In order to teach this entire doctrine of "illusionary world" the student must be fully immersed in philosophy. I don't think any school district would be willing to teach philosophy just for the sake of teaching creationism.
----
As a side note, if we want to go teach Christian conservative theology as fact in schools, why don't we also go teach Hindu reincarnation as fact and polytheism of Greek and Roman cultures as fact (not as history and mythology, but as a truth still existing this day).
Oh boy, that would get them all riled up! :D
[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7736120/[/url]
You know me, that I have room for both the evolutionary process as laid out by science, as well as the idea that this was all started by an entity.
Maybe it's the difference in my form of creationism...
;)
It just seems to me that science has engaged in just as dogmatic a war of removal of religion from school as the Creationist are at removing evolution.
Science should stick to science and let other topics hold thier own.
:)
They are specifically trying to introduce a non-science topic (creationism) into the teaching of science.
I'm all for "science should stick to science and let other topics hold thier own," but if you go by that meaning then creationism must be in another topic (theology or philosophy). Neither topic is taught in schools currently.
Frankly my objection is to teaching creationism as science. That is what creationists wish to do. If you read the 2nd page of the article you get the real idea about where they are trying to go with it.
[B]Yeah, but I meant more as an introduction to the idea not as fact, and NO, I am not against other faith teachings in school either. My point being let the student decide what they believe based upon the presentation. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's what I was thinking; are American schools really going to introduce say... Islamic, Buddhist, or Hindu theories on creation as well as those of Christianity? The cynic and the realist in me agree in saying no.
Regards,
Morden
[B]That's what I was thinking; are American schools really going to introduce say... Islamic, Buddhist, or Hindu theories on creation as well as those of Christianity? The cynic and the realist in me agree in saying no.
Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE][i][Average American high schooler][/i]: What's Hindu mean?
And in other recent, relevant news:
[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7013405/[/url]
At least not in trems of the media definition of the label anyway.
:)
[B][i][Average American high schooler][/i]: What's Hindu mean? [/B][/QUOTE]
Apu: "Hindu! There [i]are[/i] 750 million of us!"
Regards,
Morden
[B][i][Average American high schooler][/i]: What's Hindu mean? [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats what we are doing in Norway. Not teaching just christian belief but also including all the other beliefsystems.....important for the children to know a little about the various foundations for the religions....
[B]Also, that a world exists beyond your own borders. [/B][/QUOTE]
HERESY!!! BURN HIM!!! :mad:
*Grabs flaming torch*
Regards,
Morden
[B]HERESY!!! BURN HIM!!! :mad:
*Grabs flaming torch*
Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]A Brit telling an American that no world exists beyond his own borders--talk about doublethink. :D
[B]A Brit telling an American that no world exists beyond his own borders--talk about doublethink. :D [/B][/QUOTE]
Hold on, too many double negatives...
Anyway, I was being sarky. ;)
Regards,
Morden
[B]That's why I'm looking at the University of Auckland. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Didn't you say you were going to Boston or some other similarly boring named town?
[B]Apparently, my comment was interpreted as defensive... I was just pointing out the humor inherent in the situation. :p [/B][/QUOTE]
Me too! :p
Ah sod it, let's move on... :D
Regards,
Morden
[B]I don't know where the hell I'm going. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Auckland sounds good. Id like to see New Zealand myself, and alot of other places on the globe too btw..
[B]sorry to say it Exile but nobody does xenophobia/isolationism better than the USA, it one unfortunate and regrettable hallmark of the American collective psyche, everything beyond the American EEZ is effectively just a novel vacation destination.... [/B][/QUOTE]
If that's true, why did I have to sit through two years of Global Studies to learn that your sordid little country exists? (And what a Hindu is Exile)
Ask the dumb kids things and you're bound to get dumb answers. [i]Most[/i] of us passed that exam, but there was still the one kid in my class who wrote "USA" on China when given a map of the world. Get off your frakking high horse. I'm sure that you have some dimbulbs over there too.
And if you don't want to get flamed, don't call my nation's entire citizenry a pack of ignorant xenophobes. You're answering perceived xenophobia with more xenophobia. How constructive. Stop complaining about it on internet forums and do something. Like, be one of those people who protests by lying in the path of a tank in order to stop the evil of the military. All of us are xenophobes; we're not going to listen to you. You're preaching to the choir here.
Public schools should not be a place where religion is forced. I want my childeren to go to school to learn facts. If I wanted them to learn theology and religion I would either send them to sunday school or a religious school altogether.
Thats the freedom of America. Seperation of church and state (state being the public school in this instance). The idea that I wont be persecuted for my religious beliefs or non-beliefs in this scenario.
But those conservative christians want god to be a part of everybodys daily life and I cant for the life of me figure out why. If I was interested in learning their theories, they would see me on sunday.
Do I believe god? I dont know. Im not big on faith and I dont need "god" staring down on me to make me live a good and honest life. I have yet to see anything prove or disprove the existence of a god. Are there gaps in evalution? Yes, there still is a "missing link" that doesnt quite explain the rather large jump from ape to man (the obvious LARGE whole in evalution). However evalution is not a theory, it is a proven fact by which we have fossil records of other species evolving to adapt to their habitat over time. Does it explain everything? No, but neither does religion, so what side do you take?
It all depends on the person. But again, thats the freedom of America. I dont push my beliefs on you and yours, and you dont do it me either.
The Religious Right should be fighting as hard as they can to preserve seperation if Church and State!
What are the fastest growing religions in the world?
Mormonism and Islam.
Right now we have a wall stopping religious law from being made into civil law. If this is breached, what happens when a majority of the population in a townis Shi'ite Muslim? Could Springfield suddenly require women to wear Burkhas? Could Shelbyville suddenly have the Book of Mormon required to be taught in schools?
Damned right they could.
The First Amendment is required to stop ALL religions from becoming official law in our country, it is not singling out Christianity like these idiots want you to believe.
(edited for some typos)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AnlaShok [/i]
[B]The Religious Right should be fighting as hard as they can to preserve seperation if Church and State!
What are the fastest growing religions in the world?
Mormonism and Islam. [/B][/QUOTE]
If there's trouble brewing between religion and the state, it's currently going on in France. Historians amongst us may know that one legacy of the French Revolution and the 1791 Constitution [i]was[/i] the seperation of Church and State in the country. A consequance of this segregation was not permitting religious symbols/clothing to be worn in state schools.
Now, the French Government is being under pressure from Islamic clerics to allow its female adherants to wear headscarves in school. It doesn't seem to matter that this goes against the very cornerstone of French society... :rolleyes:
This is an issue I feel quite strongly about, and I'm with the French Government all the way.
Regards,
Morden