Ah, one of those little questions that will never be answered (but of course I'm gonna try).
I don't think its a question as to [i]could[/i] God, its a question as to [i]would[/i] God. If you believe in an omnipotent creator, its a not a question of could, of course God could create the Universe at, say, its half-way point, but then you have to question why would God. If you believe if God created man in his image, as intelligent, curious beings with free will [i]and[/i] God will not ever deceive man, then, why would the Creator put everything in motion at a point of less than 10,000 years ago (according to a strict interpretation of the bible), but provide an overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary? Yes we may, in our own imperfection, have misinterpreted the data around us, and come to our own conclusions, but we were created intelligent for a reason, to discover the world around us, and in doing so develop a better understanding of our Creator.
A literal interpretation of the Bible brings up another issue that's difficult to overcome, the flexibility of time itself. If we are to believe that indeed the universe was created in 7 days, then who's seven days was it? If time is relative to the speed at which you travel and can be manipulated by such forces as gravity, how can we just arbitrarily assign 7 earth days to creation, when at the start, earth wasn't even there.
The other problem this creates is the question of what timeline does God follow? By assigning any timeline to God, you have assigned a physical presence to a being that has none, and by assigning a physical presence, you now must assign a speed, which would determine the time passage of God relative to our own.
It’s these three arguments alone regardless of the evidence, which prompted me to question a literal interpretation of the bible. It my belief that this strict reading in effect limits our understanding of the power, presence and glory of God to one small, short tome. It is a great injustice to ourselves and our creator to attempt to capture his power in one single book.
This reminds me of one of my favorite scenes from Futurama where Bender "finds" God:
[I]Bender:[/i] So, do you know what I'm gonna do before I do it?
[I]God:[/i] Yes.
[I]Bender:[/i] What if I do something different?
[I]God:[/i] Then I don't know that.
[I]Bender:[/i] Cool cool! I bet a lot of people pray to you huh?
[I]God:[/i] Yes, but there are so many asking so much. After a while you just sorta tune it out.
[I]Bender:[/i] Y'know, I was God once.
[I]God:[/i] Yes I saw. You were doing well until everyone died.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]Quite the Quotemaster, arn't you, E.T? :D[/B][/QUOTE]"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again."
-Andre Gide
Here's page about measuring age of universe from WMAP's homesite.
[url]http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101age.html[/url]
"I just converted out of Christianity because I saw how ironic it was that god created us as flawed creatures and expects us to thank him for saving us from our flaws."
-CrimeAgainst (on the web)
Good point...
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]quick question...
if God created the universe, does it not also stand to reason that he would have made things in a partially decayed state? Thus rendering the results we get through Carbon dating?
just a thought.. [/B][/QUOTE]
Why would he?
Freejack: I actually think that episode of Futurama touches on some very accurate points. My favorite from that episode is "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." I think that's how God would work. God making people dependant on Himself would mean his creations would be less able to grow and learn.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]Why would he?
Freejack: I actually think that episode of Futurama touches on some very accurate points. My favorite from that episode is "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." I think that's how God would work. God making people dependant on Himself would mean his creations would be less able to grow and learn. [/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry, I messed up above saying the Earth was 4 million years old, thanks for the correction.
Here's a link to a very good short story by Asimov [url=http://www.sumware.com/creation.html]How It Happened[/url]. It has some point to this discussion but saying what would be a spoiler.
Now for serious discussion of A# last point (touching a bit on some points already made):
Let's start with some assumptions from Christianity:
God is all-knowing, thus he would have known that by creating radioisotopes humans would be mislead into thinking He created the Earth 4 thousand million years ago, and not 4 thousand years ago as the Bible says.
Obligatory Question: why would God mislead us? Why would he make it so that He appeared to contradict himself?
You could say maybe that it was Satan messing things up and introducing radioisotopes so that dating would mislead us?
Sorry, that's heresy. Only God has the power to create.
The same argument applies to fossils: geology, chemistry, physics, biology, and the bedeviled theory of evolution, tell us that some fossils are millions of years old, and hundreds of millions, even thousands of millions years old.
Why would God plant evidence that would mislead us?
BTW, I find it funny that it is some Christians that bedevil evolution.;)
Here's more to ponder: does the Bible ever say anything about the atomic nature of matter? Where in the Bible does it teach us about the Periodic Table? Does the Bible tell us how to purify Silicon and dope it to make circuits and computers? The Bible is not a book of Chemistry, nor a book of electronics. The Bible doesn't say anything about computers and yet they aren't tools of the devil.
But I wouldn't be surprised if a medieval monk or peasant would say that compouters are works of evil if you were to show them one.
Creationists deny Evolution because it isn't in the Bible...
Are they gonna deny the existence of atoms because the Bible does not tell us of their existence?
The Bible tells us nothing about Newton's laws of motion, nothing about relativity, nothing about atoms and quarks, nothing about what fuels the stars and what they really are, it tells us nothing about the expanse and the expansion of the Universe. The Bible is not a book of Physics.
The Bible doesn't tell us of the animals that Europeans would find after "discovering" America, saying nothing about whether they are kosher or not. The Bible tells us nothing about bacteria and viruses and their role in disease.
Imagine how many lives would have been saved had the Bible warned us about the real nature of disease... but the Bible is not about Biology.
The conquest of America by Europeans brought untold suffering, the enslaving of Africans was anti-Christian, World Wars, the Holocaust... so many human tragedies. An all-knowing God would know that such historical events would happen, but there's no word of it in the Bible. Because the Bible is not really a book of history. And if God were to tell us everything that would happen it would interfere with our free will.
Somewhere in the Bible it says that the value of Pi is 3.0, we know that is just an approximation. Does this make the Bible any less so the word of God (as many, including myself believe)? The Bible tells us nothing about integrals or derivatives, or geometry or mathematical theorems. Because is not a book of Math.
The Bible tells us nothing about Evolution because it isn't about Biology.
The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of wisdom.
Science is about wisdom of the material world, but the Bible is not about material wisdom.
The Bible is a book about spiritual wisdom, not about Science.
As I said above, Christianity assumes an all-knowing God, however we humans can't be all-knowing. Imagine what would have happened had God revealed to Moses along with the Ten Commandments all that we know now about science, including evolution...
I think Moses would have gone crazy, wouldn't have been able to comprehend it all... and wouldn't have found a way to tell the Israelites all of that.
So the way I see it God only revealed spiritual wisdom... because salvation doesn't come from knowledge of the material world.
Salvation doesn't come from knowledge of biology, or of physics, or chemistry or math, much less so from accepting or rejecting evolution...
Salvation comes from Faith. Does all your Faith depends on believing that and all-knowing, all-powerful God will limit himself to do things [i]exactly[/i] as it says in a few words in a book dumbed down for us puny humans to comprehend?
You could never capture the whole wisdom of God in words we humans can comprehend. Why do you limit Him to one boook, written thousand years ago and refuse to think that he may have done things other way but in ways we just couldn't understand when the Bible was written?
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Re: the revealing science of God
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]Here's a link to a very good short story by Asimov [url=http://www.sumware.com/creation.html]How It Happened[/url]. It has some point to this discussion but saying what would be a spoiler.[/B][/QUOTE]
Wow, that is a great essay, I love the insight and the contrast. I too agree, that God reveals himself in much more powerful ways than the bible, and that we couldn't even begin to contain 1/1000 of that power in such a small collection of parchment.
Jake
BTW: Great link, I had to send it to my mother (who's an ordained minister).
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]Here's a link to a very good short story by Asimov [url=http://www.sumware.com/creation.html]How It Happened[/url]. It has some point to this discussion but saying what would be a spoiler.
[/B][/QUOTE]
That funny! :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]
Let's start with some assumptions from Christianity:
God is all-knowing, thus he would have known that by creating radioisotopes humans would be mislead into thinking He created the Earth 4 thousand million years ago, and not 4 thousand years ago as the Bible says.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I have a small problem with generalizing ALL Christians/Creationists as having these assumptions... ;) But I understand that you are refering to the majority of the Westernized Fundamental stand... :)
I'll simply point out that I (and others, like Freejack I'm sure) assume errors are derived by bad interpretation, lack of info, and ego... etc There really are those out there that believe and have an open mind at the same time... :p
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]
You could say maybe that it was Satan messing things up and introducing radioisotopes so that dating would mislead us?
Sorry, that's heresy. Only God has the power to create.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I think we give Satan WAY too much credit for things that happen. It's in our nature to point fingers elsewhere.
I even think that this may be why he is bound up for a Thousand Years at some point in the prophetic future, so that we can't say to God "The Devil made me do it... " :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]
...The Bible doesn't say anything about computers and yet they aren't tools of the devil.
But I wouldn't be surprised if a medieval monk or peasant would say that compouters are works of evil if you were to show them one.
Creationists deny Evolution because it isn't in the Bible...
[/B][/QUOTE]
I have also said this before here in this thread and others in the past. Everything is a tool, that can be used for good, or for evil. Those who don't understand the workings behind it, often are afraid to accept it, and then label it, and forbid others to surpass them because of it.
And... Not all Creationists deny that the process of evolution exists... ;)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of wisdom.
Science is about wisdom of the material world, but the Bible is not about material wisdom.
The Bible is a book about spiritual wisdom, not about Science.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes! :) And other books too...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]As I said above, Christianity assumes an all-knowing God... [/B][/QUOTE]
It amazes me of how, even within the Christian Faith, people can't understand an All-Knowing God is not pre-destiny...
Just because he knows the outcome does not mean it is destined. I believe he exists outside of the limited creation he made. Like the axel of a spoked wheel, he sees all time at the same moment (in eternity if you will), while we tumble along the outer rim of the wheel in a fixed rate. Our time is an instance on the rim, but all times are present for him.
Free will exists and is a major answer to those who would ask why God let certain things happen, because it was our choices along some path that lead to these events. Think of a sea of people who all have free will, making choices every fraction of a second that affects everyone elses choices. In order for God to keep his promise and word, he must allow free will to take its course. Yes he is all powerful and could step in and alter a choice, but then free will no longer applies. If WE however ask him to do something, and he does, it was our choice, and free will still applies.
Like you said in your own way, we tend to try and package God into something we can manage. (Creating God in our image...), instead of taking time to ponder the nature of the realm he exists in...
On a personal level it has taken me years to get to a point where I can even fumble with the ideas of Eternity (no time), infinit dimensions, etc on a level that is manageable in my mind...
:D
I like the analogy of the crystal with many facets. I see a particular truth or nature of God on my side of the crystal, while someone on the opposite side sees another, yet both are real... ;) Multiply this by an infinite number and you get a better idea of God...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JackN [/i]
[B]I like the analogy of the crystal with many facets. I see a particular truth or nature of God on my side of the crystal, while someone on the opposite side sees another, yet both are real... ;) Multiply this by an infinite number and you get a better idea of God...
:) [/B][/QUOTE]
That's good, especially the last line. I like the idea that God is not found in one single truth, but in all the infinite truths that are out there...it a bit like the Foundationists from B5
When people ask what religion I believe in I tell them I'm a Foundational Humanist. They give me an odd look and ask what it is hehe.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
This article makes some very good points (many of which have been made here), including about why it has become such an issue in the US but nowhere else.
[quote] "I have yet to meet a Catholic school teacher who skips evolution," Dr. Scott said.[/quote]
What is interesting, that in the US, I believe a majority of the private "Christian" schools are Catholic. So while evolution [i]is[/i] being taught in a many Christian education institutes, its being avoided in public education. How's that for paradox.
Comments
I don't think its a question as to [i]could[/i] God, its a question as to [i]would[/i] God. If you believe in an omnipotent creator, its a not a question of could, of course God could create the Universe at, say, its half-way point, but then you have to question why would God. If you believe if God created man in his image, as intelligent, curious beings with free will [i]and[/i] God will not ever deceive man, then, why would the Creator put everything in motion at a point of less than 10,000 years ago (according to a strict interpretation of the bible), but provide an overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary? Yes we may, in our own imperfection, have misinterpreted the data around us, and come to our own conclusions, but we were created intelligent for a reason, to discover the world around us, and in doing so develop a better understanding of our Creator.
A literal interpretation of the Bible brings up another issue that's difficult to overcome, the flexibility of time itself. If we are to believe that indeed the universe was created in 7 days, then who's seven days was it? If time is relative to the speed at which you travel and can be manipulated by such forces as gravity, how can we just arbitrarily assign 7 earth days to creation, when at the start, earth wasn't even there.
The other problem this creates is the question of what timeline does God follow? By assigning any timeline to God, you have assigned a physical presence to a being that has none, and by assigning a physical presence, you now must assign a speed, which would determine the time passage of God relative to our own.
It’s these three arguments alone regardless of the evidence, which prompted me to question a literal interpretation of the bible. It my belief that this strict reading in effect limits our understanding of the power, presence and glory of God to one small, short tome. It is a great injustice to ourselves and our creator to attempt to capture his power in one single book.
This reminds me of one of my favorite scenes from Futurama where Bender "finds" God:
[I]Bender:[/i] So, do you know what I'm gonna do before I do it?
[I]God:[/i] Yes.
[I]Bender:[/i] What if I do something different?
[I]God:[/i] Then I don't know that.
[I]Bender:[/i] Cool cool! I bet a lot of people pray to you huh?
[I]God:[/i] Yes, but there are so many asking so much. After a while you just sorta tune it out.
[I]Bender:[/i] Y'know, I was God once.
[I]God:[/i] Yes I saw. You were doing well until everyone died.
Jake
[B]Quite the Quotemaster, arn't you, E.T? :D[/B][/QUOTE]"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again."
-Andre Gide
Here's page about measuring age of universe from WMAP's homesite.
[url]http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101age.html[/url]
"I just converted out of Christianity because I saw how ironic it was that god created us as flawed creatures and expects us to thank him for saving us from our flaws."
-CrimeAgainst (on the web)
Good point...
[B]quick question...
if God created the universe, does it not also stand to reason that he would have made things in a partially decayed state? Thus rendering the results we get through Carbon dating?
just a thought.. [/B][/QUOTE]
Why would he?
Freejack: I actually think that episode of Futurama touches on some very accurate points. My favorite from that episode is "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." I think that's how God would work. God making people dependant on Himself would mean his creations would be less able to grow and learn.
[B]Why would he?
Freejack: I actually think that episode of Futurama touches on some very accurate points. My favorite from that episode is "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." I think that's how God would work. God making people dependant on Himself would mean his creations would be less able to grow and learn. [/B][/QUOTE]
It would also make them more likely to rebel...
Sorry, I messed up above saying the Earth was 4 million years old, thanks for the correction.
Here's a link to a very good short story by Asimov [url=http://www.sumware.com/creation.html]How It Happened[/url]. It has some point to this discussion but saying what would be a spoiler.
Now for serious discussion of A# last point (touching a bit on some points already made):
Let's start with some assumptions from Christianity:
God is all-knowing, thus he would have known that by creating radioisotopes humans would be mislead into thinking He created the Earth 4 thousand million years ago, and not 4 thousand years ago as the Bible says.
Obligatory Question: why would God mislead us? Why would he make it so that He appeared to contradict himself?
You could say maybe that it was Satan messing things up and introducing radioisotopes so that dating would mislead us?
Sorry, that's heresy. Only God has the power to create.
The same argument applies to fossils: geology, chemistry, physics, biology, and the bedeviled theory of evolution, tell us that some fossils are millions of years old, and hundreds of millions, even thousands of millions years old.
Why would God plant evidence that would mislead us?
BTW, I find it funny that it is some Christians that bedevil evolution.;)
Here's more to ponder: does the Bible ever say anything about the atomic nature of matter? Where in the Bible does it teach us about the Periodic Table? Does the Bible tell us how to purify Silicon and dope it to make circuits and computers? The Bible is not a book of Chemistry, nor a book of electronics. The Bible doesn't say anything about computers and yet they aren't tools of the devil.
But I wouldn't be surprised if a medieval monk or peasant would say that compouters are works of evil if you were to show them one.
Creationists deny Evolution because it isn't in the Bible...
Are they gonna deny the existence of atoms because the Bible does not tell us of their existence?
The Bible tells us nothing about Newton's laws of motion, nothing about relativity, nothing about atoms and quarks, nothing about what fuels the stars and what they really are, it tells us nothing about the expanse and the expansion of the Universe. The Bible is not a book of Physics.
The Bible doesn't tell us of the animals that Europeans would find after "discovering" America, saying nothing about whether they are kosher or not. The Bible tells us nothing about bacteria and viruses and their role in disease.
Imagine how many lives would have been saved had the Bible warned us about the real nature of disease... but the Bible is not about Biology.
The conquest of America by Europeans brought untold suffering, the enslaving of Africans was anti-Christian, World Wars, the Holocaust... so many human tragedies. An all-knowing God would know that such historical events would happen, but there's no word of it in the Bible. Because the Bible is not really a book of history. And if God were to tell us everything that would happen it would interfere with our free will.
Somewhere in the Bible it says that the value of Pi is 3.0, we know that is just an approximation. Does this make the Bible any less so the word of God (as many, including myself believe)? The Bible tells us nothing about integrals or derivatives, or geometry or mathematical theorems. Because is not a book of Math.
The Bible tells us nothing about Evolution because it isn't about Biology.
The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of wisdom.
Science is about wisdom of the material world, but the Bible is not about material wisdom.
The Bible is a book about spiritual wisdom, not about Science.
As I said above, Christianity assumes an all-knowing God, however we humans can't be all-knowing. Imagine what would have happened had God revealed to Moses along with the Ten Commandments all that we know now about science, including evolution...
I think Moses would have gone crazy, wouldn't have been able to comprehend it all... and wouldn't have found a way to tell the Israelites all of that.
So the way I see it God only revealed spiritual wisdom... because salvation doesn't come from knowledge of the material world.
Salvation doesn't come from knowledge of biology, or of physics, or chemistry or math, much less so from accepting or rejecting evolution...
Salvation comes from Faith. Does all your Faith depends on believing that and all-knowing, all-powerful God will limit himself to do things [i]exactly[/i] as it says in a few words in a book dumbed down for us puny humans to comprehend?
You could never capture the whole wisdom of God in words we humans can comprehend. Why do you limit Him to one boook, written thousand years ago and refuse to think that he may have done things other way but in ways we just couldn't understand when the Bible was written?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]Here's a link to a very good short story by Asimov [url=http://www.sumware.com/creation.html]How It Happened[/url]. It has some point to this discussion but saying what would be a spoiler.[/B][/QUOTE]
That makes the point so brilliantly. :D
Wow, that is a great essay, I love the insight and the contrast. I too agree, that God reveals himself in much more powerful ways than the bible, and that we couldn't even begin to contain 1/1000 of that power in such a small collection of parchment.
Jake
BTW: Great link, I had to send it to my mother (who's an ordained minister).
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]Here's a link to a very good short story by Asimov [url=http://www.sumware.com/creation.html]How It Happened[/url]. It has some point to this discussion but saying what would be a spoiler.
[/B][/QUOTE]
That funny! :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]
Let's start with some assumptions from Christianity:
God is all-knowing, thus he would have known that by creating radioisotopes humans would be mislead into thinking He created the Earth 4 thousand million years ago, and not 4 thousand years ago as the Bible says.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I have a small problem with generalizing ALL Christians/Creationists as having these assumptions... ;) But I understand that you are refering to the majority of the Westernized Fundamental stand... :)
I'll simply point out that I (and others, like Freejack I'm sure) assume errors are derived by bad interpretation, lack of info, and ego... etc There really are those out there that believe and have an open mind at the same time... :p
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]
You could say maybe that it was Satan messing things up and introducing radioisotopes so that dating would mislead us?
Sorry, that's heresy. Only God has the power to create.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I think we give Satan WAY too much credit for things that happen. It's in our nature to point fingers elsewhere.
I even think that this may be why he is bound up for a Thousand Years at some point in the prophetic future, so that we can't say to God "The Devil made me do it... " :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]
...The Bible doesn't say anything about computers and yet they aren't tools of the devil.
But I wouldn't be surprised if a medieval monk or peasant would say that compouters are works of evil if you were to show them one.
Creationists deny Evolution because it isn't in the Bible...
[/B][/QUOTE]
I have also said this before here in this thread and others in the past. Everything is a tool, that can be used for good, or for evil. Those who don't understand the workings behind it, often are afraid to accept it, and then label it, and forbid others to surpass them because of it.
And... Not all Creationists deny that the process of evolution exists... ;)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of wisdom.
Science is about wisdom of the material world, but the Bible is not about material wisdom.
The Bible is a book about spiritual wisdom, not about Science.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes! :) And other books too...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Capt.Montoya [/i]
[B]As I said above, Christianity assumes an all-knowing God... [/B][/QUOTE]
It amazes me of how, even within the Christian Faith, people can't understand an All-Knowing God is not pre-destiny...
Just because he knows the outcome does not mean it is destined. I believe he exists outside of the limited creation he made. Like the axel of a spoked wheel, he sees all time at the same moment (in eternity if you will), while we tumble along the outer rim of the wheel in a fixed rate. Our time is an instance on the rim, but all times are present for him.
Free will exists and is a major answer to those who would ask why God let certain things happen, because it was our choices along some path that lead to these events. Think of a sea of people who all have free will, making choices every fraction of a second that affects everyone elses choices. In order for God to keep his promise and word, he must allow free will to take its course. Yes he is all powerful and could step in and alter a choice, but then free will no longer applies. If WE however ask him to do something, and he does, it was our choice, and free will still applies.
Like you said in your own way, we tend to try and package God into something we can manage. (Creating God in our image...), instead of taking time to ponder the nature of the realm he exists in...
On a personal level it has taken me years to get to a point where I can even fumble with the ideas of Eternity (no time), infinit dimensions, etc on a level that is manageable in my mind...
:D
I like the analogy of the crystal with many facets. I see a particular truth or nature of God on my side of the crystal, while someone on the opposite side sees another, yet both are real... ;) Multiply this by an infinite number and you get a better idea of God...
:)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JackN [/i]
[B]I like the analogy of the crystal with many facets. I see a particular truth or nature of God on my side of the crystal, while someone on the opposite side sees another, yet both are real... ;) Multiply this by an infinite number and you get a better idea of God...
:) [/B][/QUOTE]
That's good, especially the last line. I like the idea that God is not found in one single truth, but in all the infinite truths that are out there...it a bit like the Foundationists from B5
Jake
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/01/science/01evo.html?ei=5088&en=ed3bc1136dc96806&ex=1265000400&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&adxnnlx=1107267535-6GWNyNMIcRgk4qzFqde2cg[/url]
What is interesting, that in the US, I believe a majority of the private "Christian" schools are Catholic. So while evolution [i]is[/i] being taught in a many Christian education institutes, its being avoided in public education. How's that for paradox.
Jake