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The impact of Impact
JackN
<font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
in Zocalo v2.0
This is a thread to invite discussion not arguement... ;)
Your thoughts on the following?
:)
[QUOTE]
Many people don't realize the impact (pardon the pun) that things on the other side of the Earth have elsewhere.
For example:
Both the Cretaceous-Tertiary (K-T) boundary which ended with the impact at Chixulub,
[url]http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/SIC/impact_cratering/Chicxulub/Chicx_title.html[/url]
the Permian-Triassic (P-T) boundary which is suspected to be a larger impact in on the Northern Shores of Australia in a place called Bedout,
[url]http://beckeraustralia.crustal.ucsb.edu/[/url]
as well as the Pre-Cambrian/Cambrian extinction impact (The hunt is on for this one as well although after so much time and geological change it is hard to find. They have evidence of an Impact site somewhere in the Southern Africa area based upon ejecta found in Australia, New Zealand, Africa etc that matches the time period, but no crater as of yet that dates to that boundary).
The C-T event, it has been found, to coincide with the Deccan Trapps in India, and the P-T event probably also caused the Siberian Trapps as well since they too date to the same geological time period.
The idea of course is like a bullet hitting one side of a ball and pushing out the other side from the shockwave, thus creating an enormous amount of outflow of lava and gases.
The whole extinction thing is like a set of dominoes. The impact triggers fire storms that use up both organic fuel and oxygen for cumbustion, not to mention the molten rock and heated gas from that event, and the volcanic event on the other side of the world adds insult to injury and so the chain of life cannot adapt fast enough and falls prey to extinction.
A good example of the geomechanics is when you look at Mercury. It has an enormous crater on one side, and an comparable bulge on the other side.
Asteroid and Comet impacts such as Chixulub, Yucatan and Bedout, Australia have been calculated to measure in the Magnitude 12 and higher scale, and evidence for Tsunamis from 200 ft to a 1000 ft have been found in various places around the world.
[/QUOTE]
Your thoughts on the following?
:)
[QUOTE]
Many people don't realize the impact (pardon the pun) that things on the other side of the Earth have elsewhere.
For example:
Both the Cretaceous-Tertiary (K-T) boundary which ended with the impact at Chixulub,
[url]http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/SIC/impact_cratering/Chicxulub/Chicx_title.html[/url]
the Permian-Triassic (P-T) boundary which is suspected to be a larger impact in on the Northern Shores of Australia in a place called Bedout,
[url]http://beckeraustralia.crustal.ucsb.edu/[/url]
as well as the Pre-Cambrian/Cambrian extinction impact (The hunt is on for this one as well although after so much time and geological change it is hard to find. They have evidence of an Impact site somewhere in the Southern Africa area based upon ejecta found in Australia, New Zealand, Africa etc that matches the time period, but no crater as of yet that dates to that boundary).
The C-T event, it has been found, to coincide with the Deccan Trapps in India, and the P-T event probably also caused the Siberian Trapps as well since they too date to the same geological time period.
The idea of course is like a bullet hitting one side of a ball and pushing out the other side from the shockwave, thus creating an enormous amount of outflow of lava and gases.
The whole extinction thing is like a set of dominoes. The impact triggers fire storms that use up both organic fuel and oxygen for cumbustion, not to mention the molten rock and heated gas from that event, and the volcanic event on the other side of the world adds insult to injury and so the chain of life cannot adapt fast enough and falls prey to extinction.
A good example of the geomechanics is when you look at Mercury. It has an enormous crater on one side, and an comparable bulge on the other side.
Asteroid and Comet impacts such as Chixulub, Yucatan and Bedout, Australia have been calculated to measure in the Magnitude 12 and higher scale, and evidence for Tsunamis from 200 ft to a 1000 ft have been found in various places around the world.
[/QUOTE]
Comments
I think the concept of an asteroid strike causing mass change is probably quite accurate. That sort of event introduces a huge quantity of energy into Earth's stable system, putting it right out of balance. However, it is hard to say for sure what the effects of such an inbalance are due to having to rely on such data stores as ice field cores and sea bed cores, which are never entirely accurate (ice field cores are more accurate than sea bed ones because they preserve what's in them better) and third-hand evidence such as pollen found in sea bed cores. I think it's fair to say there would be huge climatic change, but the "volcanic eruptions everywhere" bit has always seemed to me to be more speculation than anything else. Even with evidence saying "these volcanos erupted around the same time as this impact" isn't very helpful, because the time scale we're dealing with is huge (we can't say "these volanos all erupted in the same month") and volcanos erupt all the time, geologically speaking.
I'm after any crits and or suggestions, added info, etc.
(Yes, eventually the sources of all this will be posted for credit, so we can avoid the credit/copyright issues in this discussion)
_____
For me, there is very good evidence that the Deccan Trapps and the Siberian Trapps are likely the results of impact sites on the opposite side of the Earth. Not so much that there timing seems to correspond relatively well in geologic terms, but that they are abnormal volcanic events (triggered if you will). We are not talking about a single volcano, or even a super volcano on the scale of Yellowstone or Toba, we are talking about continent sized outflow of basaltic lava (from deep within the Earth). And, if you were to project a line from the impact site through the Earth to the opposite side, they intersect at these volcanic features, after taking into consideration continental drift and the time involved since.
The exitinction process is very likely a chain of events in my opinion as well as others. We often look for one simple answer, but in real life many things are dependant on others. So once the impact hits, the various ecologies and chemical structures of the Earth collapse or are extremely altered. Weather of course becomes impacted by this as well.
Ice cores and Ocean cores say a lot, but I also remember a study of Pre and Post C-T boundary spectroscopic tests of air chemical make up. There was a show on TLC at one time about it.
You might ask how someone can test air chemical make up from ~66 million years and ~64 Million years ago?
Air bubbles trapped in sap (now Amber) from those time periods. What a clever thought that was!
While no one can be precise to the year... It did answer one important thing.
The Oxygen level of Earths atmosphere dropped tremendously on a global scale after the C-T event. More importantly, evidence of massive firestorms (organic carbons) as well as higher Volcanic gases.
I know I was excited years ago when Chixulub was introduced as the likely site and reason of the C-T boundary, but now with other pieces of the puzzle coming together, it just makes a lot of sense...
:)
Large basaltic flows are better indicators of activity caused by something major such as an asteroid strike than standard volcanic eruptions because they are rather uncommon. The Earth's natural processes do not lend themselves well to huge magma flows on that scale just happening, so there needs to have been a very powerful trigger to cause them. Asteroid strikes fit the bill rather nicely. I don't think that things like the Siberian Traps could have formed any other way than massive flows long after the crust had solidified.
I agree that these things are all related in a chain of events. The world/climate is a very complex system and upsetting one part is going to have flow-on effects throughout the rest for a while afterwards.
[URL=http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/13/MNGPRAB3QC1.DTL]Article[/URL]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JackN [/i]
[B]For me, there is very good evidence that the Deccan Trapps and the Siberian Trapps are likely the results of impact sites on the opposite side of the Earth. Not so much that there timing seems to correspond relatively well in geologic terms, but that they are abnormal volcanic events (triggered if you will).[/B][/QUOTE]Taking continental drift into account Deccan area and Chicxulub where pretty exactly on opposite sides of globe at the time.
[quote]The debate continues on whether the Chicxulub impact caused the mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous Period or whether it was one of a sequence of disasters. The Deccan Traps of India are the remnants of a massive upwelling of molten rock from deep within the Earth 65 million years ago. The toxic fumes and dust from the eruption have been put forward as a possible alternative cause of climate change that led to the extinction of the dinosaurs.
A possible link between impacts and volcanism became evident in 1974 when the Mariner 10 spacecraft flew past the innermost planet Mercury. The planet was found to be covered with impact craters like the moon. One giant impact crater on Mercury was particularly interesting. Directly opposite the impact point, on the other side of the planet (called the "antipodal point") was a region of highly disrupted terrain with no evidence of an impact. The shock waves from the impact on one side of Mercury had traveled around the surface and met simultaneously at the antipodal point to create the chaotic features. Similar features have since been detected on several moons of the giant planets.
Astronomer Duncan Steel has suggested that the same occurred with the Chicxulub impact and that the shock waves caused the Deccan Traps. Taking into account millions of years of continental drift, this region would have been at the antipodal point to Mexico at the time of the impact. Although the eruption may have contributed to the suffering, it now seems more likely that the Deccan Traps were just a consequence of the catastrophic initial event, the Chicxulub impact.[/quote][url]http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/asteroid_paine_october.html[/url]
Also there's one in Mars which I would keep as good candidate, in antipodal point of couple thousand km wide Hellas impact basin there's some highland which looks volcanic but has very different look when compared to those giant volcanoes caused by hots pots in Tharsis and Elysium Planitia.
[img]http://www.solarviews.com/browse/mgs/mgstopo2.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/dinosaurs_fry_991118.html[/url]
For those who like shooting earth with different sized objects:
[url]http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/[/url]
[quote]Asteroid and Comet impacts such as Chixulub, Yucatan and Bedout, Australia have been calculated to measure in the Magnitude 12 and higher scale, and evidence for Tsunamis from 200 ft to a 1000 ft have been found in various places around the world.[/quote]
And remember that Richter scale is only about comparing amplitude of waves, not for telling "absolute" power.
And neither is it linear, one magnitude bigger (/increase) quake has 32x energy release.
So compared to Sumatra's quake 12 Richter quake would have about 30 000 times bigger energy release.
[B]Ahh... one of my favorite subjects. :D
[/B][/QUOTE]
One of mine too! :D
...After a year or so the dust settles and sunlight begins to filter through the clouds. The Earth's surface starts warming up. But the elevated carbon dioxide levels created by the fires (and, by chance, vaporization of huge quantities of limestone at the impact site) results in a runway greenhouse effect. Those creatures that managed to survive the deep freeze now have to cope with being cooked...
[/QUOTE]
Wow! I just realized why at some periods in history that tropical plant life was overwelmingly large!
Elevated CO2 and high global temperatures, Likely the oceans were lower and had fed a large persistant humidity!
[B]For those who like shooting earth with different sized objects:
[url]http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/[/url]
[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Your Inputs:
Distance from Impact: 1610.00 km = 999.81 miles
Projectile Diameter: 3218.68 m = 10557.27 ft = 2.00 miles
Projectile Density: 1500 kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 6440.00 km/s = 3999.24 miles/s (Your chosen velocity is higher than the maximum for an object orbiting the sun)
Impact Angle: 45 degrees
Target Density: 1000 kg/m3
Target Type: Liquid Water of depth 60.96 meters, over typical rock.
Energy:
Energy before atmospheric entry: 5.43 x 1026 Joules = 1.30 x 1011MegaTons TNT
**[i]The average interval between impacts of this size is longer than the Earth's age.[/i]
**[i]Such impacts could only occur during the accumulation of the Earth, between 4.5 and 4 billion years ago.[/i]
(** In reality this happens every 50-100 million years according to Earth's geological record)
Major Global Changes:
The Earth is not strongly disturbed by the impact and loses negligible mass.
The impact does not make a noticeable change in the Earth's rotation period or the tilt of its axis.
The impact does not shift the Earth's orbit noticeably.
Crater Dimensions:
The crater opened in the water has a diameter of 453 km = 281 miles
For the crater formed in the seafloor:
Transient Crater Diameter: 274 km = 170 miles
Transient Crater Depth: 96.9 km = 60.1 miles
Final Crater Diameter: 571 km = 355 miles
Final Crater Depth: 2 km = 1.24 miles
The final crater is replaced by a large, circular melt province.
The volume of the target melted or vaporized is 3,210,000 km3 = 771,000 miles3
Melt volume = 1.19 times the crater volume
At this size, the crater forms in its own melt pool.
Thermal Radiation:
Time for maximum radiation: 0.254 seconds after impact
Your position is inside the fireball.
The fireball appears 201 times larger than the sun
Thermal Exposure: 8.29 x 109 Joules/m2
Duration of Irradiation: 2110 seconds
Radiant flux (relative to the sun): 3930
Effects of Thermal Radiation:
Clothing ignites
Much of the body suffers third degree burns
Newspaper ignites
Plywood flames
Deciduous trees ignite
Grass ignites
Seismic Effects:
The major seismic shaking will arrive at approximately 322 seconds.
Richter Scale Magnitude: 12.0 (This is greater than any earthquake in recorded history)
Mercalli Scale Intensity at a distance of 1610 km:
VII. Damage negligible in buildings of good design and construction; slight to moderate in well-built ordinary structures; considerable damage in poorly built or badly designed structures; some chimneys broken.
VIII. Damage slight in specially designed structures; considerable damage in ordinary substantial buildings with partial collapse. Damage great in poorly built structures. Fall of chimneys, factory stacks, columns, monuments, walls. Heavy furniture overturned.
Ejecta:
The ejecta will arrive approximately 662 seconds after the impact.
Average Ejecta Thickness: 12 m = 39.5 ft
Mean Fragment Diameter: 2.58 mm = 0.102 inches
Air Blast:
The air blast will arrive at approximately 4880 seconds.
Peak Overpressure: 9,140,000 Pa = 91.4 bars = 1300 psi
Max wind velocity: 2420 m/s = 5410 mph
Sound Intensity: 139 dB (Dangerously Loud)
Damage Description:
Multistory wall-bearing buildings will collapse.
Wood frame buildings will almost completely collapse.
Multistory steel-framed office-type buildings will suffer extreme frame distortion, incipient collapse.
Highway truss bridges will collapse.
Highway girder bridges will collapse.
Glass windows will shatter.
Cars and trucks will be largely displaced and grossly distorted and will require rebuilding before use.
Up to 90 percent of trees blown down; remainder stripped of branches and leaves.
[/QUOTE]
But apparently, the simulator doesn't want to discuss singularities:
[QUOTE]Projectile Diameter: 0.00 m = 0.00 ft = 0.00 miles
(it approximated the diameter down to zero)
Projectile Density: 99999999999999999999999999999 (and more) kg/m3
Impact Velocity: 300.00 km/s = 186.30 miles/s
Impact Angle: 90 degrees
Target Density: 2500 kg/m3
Target Type: Sedimentary Rock
This projectile is so small that it burns up during atmospheric traverse. [/QUOTE]
The energy released by the event is equivalent to 130,000,000,000 MegaTons of TNT. Take a Thermo-nuclear weapon with a yield of 35 Megatons as a measure (One that would lay waste to many typical cities), That would be like 3,714,285,714 nukes going off at once.
Remember that I am 1000 miles away, and I am still inside the fireball!
The initial radiation (non-residual) from this event would last for over 35 minutes.
The final crater formed by this event would be ~350 miles across!
Just over 5 minutes from impact I would feel the Earthquake from it, and the magnitude would be a 12.0 at 1000 miles away where I am standing!
At just over 11 minutes, the location I'm standing at would be bombarded by molten rock and ash, and pile up to a depth of around 40 ft!
At just over an hour and 20 minutes the airblast would reach my location, with winds at almost 5,500 miles per hour, and at an atmospheric pressure of 1300 psi. The noise level would be almost 140 decibles!
Meanwhile on the opposite side of the Earth from the impact site (antipodal), those who feel safe in riding out the impact would get the sudden effect of ground deformation, volcanic rupture, massive lava and volcanic gas outflow from deep within the interior, as the ground waves from the impact converged on their location hours later!
The weeks and months that follow would see the decline of plant life and ocean plankton as the sun is blocked out by the debri, followed by the extinction of many animals dependant on that plant life. Weather would grow colder as the sunlight could no longer heat the Earth.
Months later when the dust settled for the most part, all the greenhouse gasses procuded by the impact and the volcanic events on the opposite side of the Earth would create a greenhouse condition for years that would increase the CO2 and heat as it was trapped in the Earths atmosphere. Global temperatures would rise and rise. Altering weather yet again...
That's just an amazing vision... all from a 2 mile wide porous rock fragment impacting the Earth...
:eek:
[B]If the winds are at 5500mph, why do they take an hour and 20 minutes to travel 1000 miles? [/B][/QUOTE]
[quote]Max wind velocity: 2420 m/s = 5410 mph[/quote]
I gather that is not a sustained wind gust...
:D
Obviosuly I was using the results of the program for my scenario...
[B]Just over 5 minutes from impact I would feel the Earthquake from it, and the magnitude would be a 12.0 at 1000 miles away where I am standing![/B][/QUOTE]I think it means magnitude of earthquake like in case of normal earthquakes.
Magnitude doesn't change when you increase distance to impact point.
But you better have good sunblock... there might be "some" shadows burned to walls and asphalt.
And thermal exposure depends from distance.
[B]Meanwhile on the opposite side of the Earth from the impact site (antipodal), those who feel safe in riding out the impact would get the sudden effect of ground deformation, volcanic rupture, massive lava and volcanic gas outflow from deep within the interior, as the ground waves from the impact converged on their location hours later![/B][/QUOTE]They don't have to wait that...
[i]People in Brazil feel less vulnerable than most of the world's population. They are on the opposite side of the Earth from the predicted impact point. But one hour after the impact Brazilians notice some brilliant meteors. Then more meteors. Soon the sky gets brighter and hotter from the overwhelming number of meteors. Within a few minutes trees ignite from the fierce radiant heat. Millions of fragments of rock, ejected into space by the blast, are making a fiery return all over the planet.[/i]
[url]http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/astronomy/asteroid_paine_october.html[/url]
anyway, we did all this business about the traps, asteroids and extinction events in lectures last semester. before prof. rigby ever mentioned that there 'could' be a link, i think in my mind id already come to the conclusion that they are related.
to me, it seems highly unlikely that you have a massive impact event, and then have the traps going off at essentially the same time on what was the exact opposite side of the world at that time. i dont believe in coincidences;) everything is realated in one form or another in a closed system, even the size of the earth
Curious... :confused:
[B]What do you guys think about Scalar waves and all the hoopla that has come with it?[/B][/QUOTE]You mean that stuff in Cheniere.org, mostly based on Soviet "experiments"... when whole country was based on biggest lie(s) in the world!
And who currently seems to be more interested in selling his expensive books instead of "perpetual motion machine".