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Downloading television series (like BSG)
Mundane
Elite Ranger
in Zocalo v2.0
[url]http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=284022&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#284022[/url]
What do you think? I am myself downloading it and other shows weekly, since I have no other way of watching them.
taken from a post at:
[url]http://community.spacecast.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009123;p=30[/url]
From what you just said then, your entire argument is therefore predicated on a BELIEF that downloading is the PRIME cause of the current woes:
- Even though the woes started a few years back.
- Even though the downloading numbers seem to be insignificant
- Even though DVD sales are still going stronger than ever
- Even though according to most critics, the average quality of the mainstream product has gone down
- Even though according to several articles and commentary, cracks and seams are starting to show in the venerable Nielsen ratings system
- Even though less people are watching TV these days due to increased competition from general internet use, DVD special features, and the aforementioned drop in quality.
What do you think? I am myself downloading it and other shows weekly, since I have no other way of watching them.
taken from a post at:
[url]http://community.spacecast.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009123;p=30[/url]
From what you just said then, your entire argument is therefore predicated on a BELIEF that downloading is the PRIME cause of the current woes:
- Even though the woes started a few years back.
- Even though the downloading numbers seem to be insignificant
- Even though DVD sales are still going stronger than ever
- Even though according to most critics, the average quality of the mainstream product has gone down
- Even though according to several articles and commentary, cracks and seams are starting to show in the venerable Nielsen ratings system
- Even though less people are watching TV these days due to increased competition from general internet use, DVD special features, and the aforementioned drop in quality.
Comments
Over here, it takes at least 2 years (with some exceptions) for a new Season to be shown in TV. And then its dubbed in german, and IMHO the quality of the dubbs is pretty bad. So the only "legal" way i can watch a show without cringin with every word is to wait for the DVDs, which will take an additional 1-10 years, IF they come out at all.
So the only way I can watch the shows i like is to download them from the internet.
I'm not in the US, so the US Advertisers don't loose a buck because I download it.
IMHO the TV Production companies (you know, WB, Fox..) and/or the Networks missed a great opportunity to cash in from around the world.
The could have made download streams (or whatever) for their shows with international advertisers (McDonalds, for example, comes to my mind) during the ad-break. Make the stream available at the same time the show is shown on TV, and you have the COMBINED Audience of the US-TV viewers and the International Web-Viewers...
Studio executives like to live in this little bubble and think its still 1956, and that only a small select few world travelers dont realize that television shows dont get shown everywhere at the same time.
Well, its damn near 2005 and good portion of the world is connected to the internet, and if your going to do something stupid, its going to be on the internet in a matter of moments.
For example: If you tape yourself using a mop handle like its a freaking light sabre, 3 billion will download it and laugh at you. Or if you release a highly anticipated television show in a European market 4 months before you do it in the states, people like me are going to hop online and download it and watch it.
Especially when those guys that record it, are giving me a high quality download with no comercial interuption. Its like making your own dvd set for free. And all the studio execs did was air it on a broadcast station 5k miles away from where I live.
Release a new show at or at least near the same time. I could have waited if they premiered it on sky One on a Monday and I was getting it that Friday. If your not going to do that, make it available for legit streaming download. It worked for the music industry, kind of.
Also Mundane has a good point. I think some company that makes a world-wide TV satelite network that requires all affiliates to broadcast worldwide shows (rather then regionally specific) might be a neat idea :).
To your point, the same thing can be said about music and other digital medias. If large studios, labels, etc had jumped on the internet bandwagon much earilier on than they have, I think a lot of the file sharing issues would be a mute point...
Jake
It is not illegal to record a tv show on a VCR.
It is not illegal to give a recorded tv show via a vcr to another person.
So why is it illegal to distribute a tv show online? :confused:
Is this becuase they don't "make money" from 2nd hand viewing? Well...you could say the same about 2nd hand books from used book stores. Here is what one author that I read (Stackpole) has to say about used books:
(posted on his website: [url]http://www.stormwolf.com/essays/msused.htm[/url] )
[quote]
Used bookstores are everywhere and serve a vital function in society -- they make books available at a reasonable price and are often the only source for out of print paperbacks. I have bought and do buy books from used bookstores, especially when the books are out of print and not available elsewhere.
Readers should be aware, however, that authors do not get paid for books sold in used bookstores. Our royalties are figured on sales by our publishers to bookstores, but used bookstores do not buy from the publishers. We get no credit for those sales because there is no accounting system for them.
Before you dismiss this as a rant by a greedy author, rightfully pointing out that if not for used bookstores many readers wouldn't take a chance on an author they've never read before, bear with me for a moment. Because the publishers have no way to track used bookstore sales, they don't have an accurate picture of the popularity of their authors. It could be that a book purchased from a used bookstore makes its way through 4-5 readers, and each of them decides they like this author. That's great, but his publisher has no way of knowing that.
Readers, in the current retailing system, really are patrons of the arts. If you find an author you like, by all means, buy a copy of his current or next book from a new book retailer. By doing that you show the retailers and his publisher that they have a reason to continue to sell and publish his books respectively. It's the only way you can let the publishers and retailers know you want to see more of this author's work. (Cards and letters to the publisher would be nice, sure, but the accountants tend to consider only dollars and cents.)
And concerning the greed factor, please understand that most authors make between 6-10% of the cover price of the books. In the case of books written in a series owned by someone else, the percentage can be decidedly lower. In other words, a $5 book produces 30 cents in income for the author. At that rate the author loses money on the postage for replying to a fan letter! With the average SF/Fantasy novel selling fewer than 20,000 copies, we're talking an income of $7,000 for what probably was a year's worth of work. Kinda dismal, really.
Yes, patronize used bookstores for the books you can't get elsewhere. If you find an author you like, support her by buying her books *NEW* and guarantee you'll get more from them in the future.
[/quote]
So how are TV shows any different?
[B]The problem with the system as TV execs see it is that the internet is empowering people to be able to watch what they want, when they want rather than when the TV station feels they should watch it. People will pay to do that if they are given the choice, but at the moment they are not. The old concept of scheduled TV is not going to last much longer. [/B][/QUOTE]Down with big media! Viva la revolucion!
Ummm. I dont watch TV.
[B]You know...I have been thinking.
It is not illegal to record a tv show on a VCR.
It is not illegal to give a recorded tv show via a vcr to another person.
So why is it illegal to distribute a tv show online? :confused: [/B][/QUOTE]
The argument is that VCR copies are analog copies and so degrade over time and with each successive dub. What you see zipping around the net is digital copies, which don't degrade and are infinitely duplicatable, as well as far easier to get hold of (it takes a while to post a video tape around the world, but not very long to transmit a video file). Thus proliferation of copies becomes far greater. This is a valid argument, although not really for the sort of complete and utter control media companies want.
[B]The argument is that VCR copies are analog copies and so degrade over time and with each successive dub. What you see zipping around the net is digital copies, which don't degrade and are infinitely duplicatable, as well as far easier to get hold of (it takes a while to post a video tape around the world, but not very long to transmit a video file). Thus proliferation of copies becomes far greater. This is a valid argument, although not really for the sort of complete and utter control media companies want. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, it was valid, until DVD-Recorders.... If I record a Show with my DVD-Rcorder, then the copy doesn't degrade, no matter how often i copy it..
[B]DVD recorder = digital copies. Exactly the sort of thing I was talking about, and why the US now has that broadcast flag law, which comes into effect next year. [/B][/QUOTE]
Then I misunderstood you. I thought you were only talking about capturing it on pc.
[B]You know...I have been thinking.
It is not illegal to record a tv show on a VCR.
It is not illegal to give a recorded tv show via a vcr to another person.
So why is it illegal to distribute a tv show online? :confused:
Is this becuase they don't "make money" from 2nd hand viewing? Well...you could say the same about 2nd hand books from used book stores. Here is what one author that I read (Stackpole) has to say about used books:
(posted on his website: [url]http://www.stormwolf.com/essays/msused.htm[/url] )
So how are TV shows any different? [/B][/QUOTE]
Well....I have bought Dark Angel, Farscape and Babylon 5 on DVD, by buying the DVDs you show your support.
The problem comes when you make a copy of your copy, and give that to someone. Now, both you [i]and[/i] your friend can screen the show for other people and make copies, and by this point the vast majority of the people watching aren't paying for it anymore by watching commercials, and furthermore, their numbers can't be measured. Essentially, minus the cost of the video tape, they're getting something for nothing, and viewing this entertainment constitutes piracy.
Given that commercials are how we pay for what we watch, and are the reason we don't pay money to receive over-the-air broadcasts, I can understand the broadcasters' point of view. If people don't watch commercials, and advertisers become aware of that fact, then the price of advertising time goes down, broadcasters don't make their money, and budgets for television shows get cut. New shows don't get made, particularly if they are expensive, as science-fiction tends to be, and quality television gets sacrificed for cheap sensationalist crap.
Personally, I'd rather pay directly for my television shows than not pay and be advertised at, which is one reason I just don't watch much TV anymore, but that's me. I try to make up for it by purchasing DVDs of shows I like. The problem with this approach, however, is that DVD sales cannot factor in to the survival of a show, particularly a young one. DVDs usually only become available after entire seasons are completed, at which point the fate of the show, live or die, has already been decided by the ratings.
I think there are a couple of solutions to this whole thing, and both involve getting rid of television, or at least scaling back its importance significantly.
1) Direct-to-DVD releases. I would love to see "television" shows released to DVD either at the same time as they start airing on television, or even before or in lieu of airing them on television. Imagine purchasing television shows in sets of six episodes, where the sales on those first six episodes determine whether or not the next six will be made. This requires a huge leap of faith on the part of the studio, as it's quite a risk to put so much money into show development and production without any kind of guaranteed viewership whatsoever, but the advantage here is that viewers pay directly for the content they're receiving, and the studios are not beholden to network execs for content or funding.
2) Internet releases. Release episodic content online, either with commercials embedded, or on a pay-per-episode basis, using an encrypted streaming video format. This has pretty much the same benefits as option 1, but the cost to the consumer would probably be considerably cheaper, and pirates would be less likely to bother making copies of streaming content than they would with DVDs. The downside is that the quality would probably not be as good as on a DVD, and viewers would have to be connected in order to watch.
I would love to see both of those options implemented, in tandem. My own choice would be to release the pilot episode of any new series online for free with no commercial interruptions, as advertising for the rest of the series in all formats.
[URL=http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17251]Click[/URL]
Worf
Worf
JMS has also made another [URL=http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17252]post[/URL] (he talks about vcr use this time too).
Worf
[B]I would have thought that the cast, crew, writers etc would get a percentage of the dvd sales.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, they do.. about 0.01 Cent per box, as i understand it... (no, not that bad, but the conditions were negotiated in the early eighties, when no one thought home-video would be a big hit)
[B]I would have thought that the cast, crew, writers etc would get a percentage of the dvd sales.[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, but that's not the whole issue.
Let's say I'm downloading the BSG eps as they come out in London. I don't have cable, and now that I have the only show on cable I'm really interested in seeing, I don't [i]get[/i] cable, and I don't watch the show (with the commercials) when it comes out here. If I get chosen by Nielsen to monitor my TV viewership, that's a rating that BSG [i]does not get[/i]. BSG's ratings are therefore lower than they would otherwise be, and the difference might be enough for Sci-Fi to cancel the show because it is too expensive to produce and doesn't bring eyes to advertisements. Instead of four or five seasons, we get one, or maybe even just half a season.
What's better for the actors and writers and directors? Residuals and profits from DVD sales and reruns of five seasons, or residuals and profits of DVD sales from a half-season? My downloading an episode and not watching it on TV can make that difference, and if it does, then I've stolen much more than just an episode. I've stolen their careers.
Apparently they know that people downloading the series is a problem and are trying to attract new viewers.
[URL=http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=7627]Click[/URL]
Worf