RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
Re: I really need to buy myself a GameCube/Metroid Prime bundle
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MT [/i]
[B]If it's out on all platforms, I'll go with the PC version simply becasue if I buy a new PC, I can still play my older games (usually). Nintendo 64 games, however, only run on a Nintendo 64. GameCubes don't run N64 games, etc.
[/B][/QUOTE]
However, the next Nintendo console is supposed to be backwards compatible..
That would be a nice change, and a smart one too now that they are on a disc finally. I think it's kind of hard to make a cartidge based system backwards compatible, due to pin configuration and such, though nintendo did do that with GBA.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
That's because with the GB->GBA, the cartridge itself didn't change much. The interface to the cartridge is essentially the same, the difference is a bigger rom inside.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]I've yet to see a Console game that looked better then a PC game.
[/B][/QUOTE]
With the possible exception of Doom3 and Half life, no other game on the PC has normal and bump/UV mapping.
Halo and Halo2 have this out of the box.
Re: Sound: Xbox had Full dolby support; remember that it is, basically, an nforce2/geForce chipset with a 733 mhz P3 at the center. nForce2 had some of the best audio out there. 2/3/4/5.1, etc.
Now, the resolution is lower, for certain, on the xbox, as the monitor is a TV, [i]but[/i] with HD & widescreen support, dayum, that Halo2 looks fine.....especially as it and the game cost a fraction of what my PC did, hell, what my 6800 did...
And those Halo2 maps are freaking huge.
Add to that the fact that you actually see the advantage of having UMA on the xbox--levels load fast, as opposed to the sloth-like nature of AGP/PCI/PCIx where everything has to go from disk->RAM->bus->VidCard.
Damn, I miss how fast Quake1 and Half-Life 1 loaded maps...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]...so, yes, I can use graphics as an excuse. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Seeing as a GeForce 3 can't even run Doom3 or Half-Life 2, I'd say that the Xbox is holding it's own with age, A#, especially when given the fact that the GF3 was the "state of the Art" part the Year the Xbox was released ;)
As for good looking, see my comments on UV and Bump mapping...I don't mean alpha channels that pseudo bump-map, but actual use of the UV data set as shadow stencils that react to light source placement. There's a power generator room in Halo2 that was just startling, and after I noticed why, I just stood there to watch the UV effects put through their paces. To be honest, I'm not even sure that D3 or HL2 use UV maps like this. I'd have to go back and look.
On another note: I bought my 2nd and 3rd xbox games over the weekend...Ghost Recon 2 (I'm a GR addict), and Battlestar Galactica out of the bargain bin :)
Re: I really need to buy myself a GameCube/Metroid Prime bundle
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MT [/i]
[B]If it's out on all platforms, I'll go with the PC version simply becasue if I buy a new PC, I can still play my older games (usually). Nintendo 64 games, however, only run on a Nintendo 64. GameCubes don't run N64 games, etc.[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh, if that were only true....try running something that was written for 3-4 revisions back of DirectX sometime...you'll see what I mean. And DOS games? For-get it.
*glances back at Sam-n-Max, The Dig, Noctropolis, and Bioforge, all sitting on the shelf behind him*
As to this whole PC vs Console thing: I never really subscribed to it; nor do I subscribe to the notion that "consoles are making PC games dumb." I think it's the opposite; I think that PCs are making the new console games smarter. They have to, or people won't buy them. I bough the xbox to play Halo2, not the other way around ;)
Now, the current Xbox *does* have a limitation: it can't multithread, which is why the discussion of porting ITF to the xbox was mainly one of academia after Dan and I talked about it way back when.
However, based on what I've read recently about the PS3, and given the CPU that the Xbox Next will be running (IBM PowerPC), I'd suspect that conversation might go differently if we had it today.
(Vorlon Trivia # 47: ITF was multithreaded out of the gate--in fact, it required it. Had we made it, it would have been the first multithreaded PC game to market).
-R.
RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rick [/i]
[B]
On another note: I bought my 2nd and 3rd xbox games over the weekend...Ghost Recon 2 (I'm a GR addict), and Battlestar Galactica out of the bargain bin :)[/B][/QUOTE]
IMHO BSG has the best flight model i've ever seen.. it's fast, its fun... there's nothing as gratifying as doing a 180 and shooting that missile thats heading for you...
Though the mission design isn't that good. Basically the technical side is good to great, but the rest is sometimes not so good...
(one thing that really bugs me are the fighter models. Yes, the game wasn't originally meant to be a prequel to the new galactica, but if there was enough time to do the FMVs with the new viper model, there must have been enough time to make a new in game model..)
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Re: Re: I really need to buy myself a GameCube/Metroid Prime bundle
While I don't think the XBox is as technically advanced as the PS2 and Gamecube (I'm an engineer, I can't help but think about technical things like the inner workings of their chipsets), I agree with everything Rick said about its capabilities. Considering how many generations behind current PC hardware it is, it does a spectacular job. When the next generation consoles come around, I think the new XBox will have technically advanced significantly in the correct direction for what it's supposed to be doing. I cannot wait to see what the PS3 and XBox Next can do.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rick [/i]
[B]I bough the xbox to play Halo2, not the other way around ;)[/B][/QUOTE]
This is basically the same reason I bought my PS2 and my GBA. I subscribe to the "get the tools you need for the job" theory of buying hardware rather than the "get jobs to suit the tools you've bought" theory. :)
And I bought the Gamecube to play those great titles from nintendo with mario, zelda etc.
The gamecube might not be as powerfull as my computer, but it still pulls some nice grafics (like Metroid Prime and Soul Calibur 2) and it's as big as the PSU for my computer.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by the_exile [/i]
[B]And when you buy a new console you can hollow it out and use it as a lunchbox! [/B][/QUOTE]
I'll actually install the DVD remote and the media link and turn it into a media server...or do the linux hack.
I'd say the PS2 vs xbox is a hard call, though, biggles...the graphics and sound in H2 are amazingly good. I'm not sure that I've seen a PS2 title at that level yet.
But, you have to admit, the new slim PS2 sure is easy on hte eyes from an aesthetics standpoint...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RubberEagle [/i]
[B]IMHO BSG has the best flight model i've ever seen.. it's fast, its fun... there's nothing as gratifying as doing a 180 and shooting that missile thats heading for you...
Though the mission design isn't that good. Basically the technical side is good to great, but the rest is sometimes not so good...
(one thing that really bugs me are the fighter models. Yes, the game wasn't originally meant to be a prequel to the new galactica, but if there was enough time to do the FMVs with the new viper model, there must have been enough time to make a new in game model..) [/B][/QUOTE]
That was the main reason I picked it up. At one point Dan and I had a rather long thread about flight control with consoler controller...IMO, our idea for a layout was better...of course ours was mainly inertia-based ;)
I want to revise this one a little, or, rather, add to it.
[quote]I think it's the opposite; I think that PCs are making the new console games smarter. [/quote]
I also think that the more powerful consoles are forcing smarter, more streamlined game designs. Take KOTR, for example. Very little is lost in translation, regardless of platform.
-R.
RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rick [/i]
[B]That was the main reason I picked it up. At one point Dan and I had a rather long thread about flight control with consoler controller...IMO, our idea for a layout was better...of course ours was mainly inertia-based ;)
-R. [/B][/QUOTE]
Here's a fun excercise: Get (or make) yourself a xbox-usb cable and connect your xbox-controller to the PC. Then try playing IFH with it.
I actually did that, and it worked surprisingly well (of course there aren't enough buttons on the controller, and it's not as precise as a joystick, but imho it's much easier to use the vector-thrusters with the second stick :)
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rick [/i]
[B]I'd say the PS2 vs xbox is a hard call, though, biggles...[/b][/quote]
In terms of capabilities, I agree. I also agree in terms of games. However, I don't agree from the technical design point of view, I think the PS2 is way ahead of the XBox there. The beauty of this, though, is that the technical design is irrelevant when considering when a console's worth. I can admire the brilliance of the design of the Emotion Engine all I want, but it's really irrelevant. :) As I keep saying, it all comes down to the games you want to play. For me, that is console RPGs mainly and the PS2 is where you find those.
[quote][b]the graphics and sound in H2 are amazingly good. I'm not sure that I've seen a PS2 title at that level yet.[/b][/quote]
Having played both Halo 2 and Xenosaga 2 (yes I know I keep dragging that game up, but like H2 it is the peak of the console's achievement graphics-wise), I have to say I think X2 beats H2 for sheer gorgeousness of graphics, but H2 wins for environments. Also, I would always go with the Xbox sound over the PS2 sound as it has a more advanced sound chipset.
[quote][b]But, you have to admit, the new slim PS2 sure is easy on hte eyes from an aesthetics standpoint...[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh fuck yeah. It fits in perfectly with my recently discovered sense of "small and quiet and pretty to look at" that I suspect is going to heavily influence my next computer upgrade.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]... my recently discovered sense of "small and quiet and pretty to look at" ... [/B][/QUOTE]
Did you pick this up in Japan, perhaps? ;)
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
No, but I think being in Japan certainly magnified it permanantly. :D
Comments
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MT [/i]
[B]If it's out on all platforms, I'll go with the PC version simply becasue if I buy a new PC, I can still play my older games (usually). Nintendo 64 games, however, only run on a Nintendo 64. GameCubes don't run N64 games, etc.
[/B][/QUOTE]
However, the next Nintendo console is supposed to be backwards compatible..
[B]I've yet to see a Console game that looked better then a PC game.
[/B][/QUOTE]
With the possible exception of Doom3 and Half life, no other game on the PC has normal and bump/UV mapping.
Halo and Halo2 have this out of the box.
Re: Sound: Xbox had Full dolby support; remember that it is, basically, an nforce2/geForce chipset with a 733 mhz P3 at the center. nForce2 had some of the best audio out there. 2/3/4/5.1, etc.
Now, the resolution is lower, for certain, on the xbox, as the monitor is a TV, [i]but[/i] with HD & widescreen support, dayum, that Halo2 looks fine.....especially as it and the game cost a fraction of what my PC did, hell, what my 6800 did...
And those Halo2 maps are freaking huge.
Add to that the fact that you actually see the advantage of having UMA on the xbox--levels load fast, as opposed to the sloth-like nature of AGP/PCI/PCIx where everything has to go from disk->RAM->bus->VidCard.
Damn, I miss how fast Quake1 and Half-Life 1 loaded maps...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]...so, yes, I can use graphics as an excuse. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Seeing as a GeForce 3 can't even run Doom3 or Half-Life 2, I'd say that the Xbox is holding it's own with age, A#, especially when given the fact that the GF3 was the "state of the Art" part the Year the Xbox was released ;)
As for good looking, see my comments on UV and Bump mapping...I don't mean alpha channels that pseudo bump-map, but actual use of the UV data set as shadow stencils that react to light source placement. There's a power generator room in Halo2 that was just startling, and after I noticed why, I just stood there to watch the UV effects put through their paces. To be honest, I'm not even sure that D3 or HL2 use UV maps like this. I'd have to go back and look.
On another note: I bought my 2nd and 3rd xbox games over the weekend...Ghost Recon 2 (I'm a GR addict), and Battlestar Galactica out of the bargain bin :)
-R.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MT [/i]
[B]If it's out on all platforms, I'll go with the PC version simply becasue if I buy a new PC, I can still play my older games (usually). Nintendo 64 games, however, only run on a Nintendo 64. GameCubes don't run N64 games, etc.[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh, if that were only true....try running something that was written for 3-4 revisions back of DirectX sometime...you'll see what I mean. And DOS games? For-get it.
*glances back at Sam-n-Max, The Dig, Noctropolis, and Bioforge, all sitting on the shelf behind him*
As to this whole PC vs Console thing: I never really subscribed to it; nor do I subscribe to the notion that "consoles are making PC games dumb." I think it's the opposite; I think that PCs are making the new console games smarter. They have to, or people won't buy them. I bough the xbox to play Halo2, not the other way around ;)
Now, the current Xbox *does* have a limitation: it can't multithread, which is why the discussion of porting ITF to the xbox was mainly one of academia after Dan and I talked about it way back when.
However, based on what I've read recently about the PS3, and given the CPU that the Xbox Next will be running (IBM PowerPC), I'd suspect that conversation might go differently if we had it today.
(Vorlon Trivia # 47: ITF was multithreaded out of the gate--in fact, it required it. Had we made it, it would have been the first multithreaded PC game to market).
-R.
[B]
On another note: I bought my 2nd and 3rd xbox games over the weekend...Ghost Recon 2 (I'm a GR addict), and Battlestar Galactica out of the bargain bin :)[/B][/QUOTE]
IMHO BSG has the best flight model i've ever seen.. it's fast, its fun... there's nothing as gratifying as doing a 180 and shooting that missile thats heading for you...
Though the mission design isn't that good. Basically the technical side is good to great, but the rest is sometimes not so good...
(one thing that really bugs me are the fighter models. Yes, the game wasn't originally meant to be a prequel to the new galactica, but if there was enough time to do the FMVs with the new viper model, there must have been enough time to make a new in game model..)
While I don't think the XBox is as technically advanced as the PS2 and Gamecube (I'm an engineer, I can't help but think about technical things like the inner workings of their chipsets), I agree with everything Rick said about its capabilities. Considering how many generations behind current PC hardware it is, it does a spectacular job. When the next generation consoles come around, I think the new XBox will have technically advanced significantly in the correct direction for what it's supposed to be doing. I cannot wait to see what the PS3 and XBox Next can do.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rick [/i]
[B]I bough the xbox to play Halo2, not the other way around ;)[/B][/QUOTE]
This is basically the same reason I bought my PS2 and my GBA. I subscribe to the "get the tools you need for the job" theory of buying hardware rather than the "get jobs to suit the tools you've bought" theory. :)
The gamecube might not be as powerfull as my computer, but it still pulls some nice grafics (like Metroid Prime and Soul Calibur 2) and it's as big as the PSU for my computer.
[B]And when you buy a new console you can hollow it out and use it as a lunchbox! [/B][/QUOTE]
I'll actually install the DVD remote and the media link and turn it into a media server...or do the linux hack.
I'd say the PS2 vs xbox is a hard call, though, biggles...the graphics and sound in H2 are amazingly good. I'm not sure that I've seen a PS2 title at that level yet.
But, you have to admit, the new slim PS2 sure is easy on hte eyes from an aesthetics standpoint...
-R.
[B]IMHO BSG has the best flight model i've ever seen.. it's fast, its fun... there's nothing as gratifying as doing a 180 and shooting that missile thats heading for you...
Though the mission design isn't that good. Basically the technical side is good to great, but the rest is sometimes not so good...
(one thing that really bugs me are the fighter models. Yes, the game wasn't originally meant to be a prequel to the new galactica, but if there was enough time to do the FMVs with the new viper model, there must have been enough time to make a new in game model..) [/B][/QUOTE]
That was the main reason I picked it up. At one point Dan and I had a rather long thread about flight control with consoler controller...IMO, our idea for a layout was better...of course ours was mainly inertia-based ;)
-R.
[quote]I think it's the opposite; I think that PCs are making the new console games smarter. [/quote]
I also think that the more powerful consoles are forcing smarter, more streamlined game designs. Take KOTR, for example. Very little is lost in translation, regardless of platform.
-R.
[B]That was the main reason I picked it up. At one point Dan and I had a rather long thread about flight control with consoler controller...IMO, our idea for a layout was better...of course ours was mainly inertia-based ;)
-R. [/B][/QUOTE]
Here's a fun excercise: Get (or make) yourself a xbox-usb cable and connect your xbox-controller to the PC. Then try playing IFH with it.
I actually did that, and it worked surprisingly well (of course there aren't enough buttons on the controller, and it's not as precise as a joystick, but imho it's much easier to use the vector-thrusters with the second stick :)
[B]I'd say the PS2 vs xbox is a hard call, though, biggles...[/b][/quote]
In terms of capabilities, I agree. I also agree in terms of games. However, I don't agree from the technical design point of view, I think the PS2 is way ahead of the XBox there. The beauty of this, though, is that the technical design is irrelevant when considering when a console's worth. I can admire the brilliance of the design of the Emotion Engine all I want, but it's really irrelevant. :) As I keep saying, it all comes down to the games you want to play. For me, that is console RPGs mainly and the PS2 is where you find those.
[quote][b]the graphics and sound in H2 are amazingly good. I'm not sure that I've seen a PS2 title at that level yet.[/b][/quote]
Having played both Halo 2 and Xenosaga 2 (yes I know I keep dragging that game up, but like H2 it is the peak of the console's achievement graphics-wise), I have to say I think X2 beats H2 for sheer gorgeousness of graphics, but H2 wins for environments. Also, I would always go with the Xbox sound over the PS2 sound as it has a more advanced sound chipset.
[quote][b]But, you have to admit, the new slim PS2 sure is easy on hte eyes from an aesthetics standpoint...[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh fuck yeah. It fits in perfectly with my recently discovered sense of "small and quiet and pretty to look at" that I suspect is going to heavily influence my next computer upgrade.
[B]... my recently discovered sense of "small and quiet and pretty to look at" ... [/B][/QUOTE]
Did you pick this up in Japan, perhaps? ;)