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Political Intimidation?
Random Chaos
Actually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
in Zocalo v2.0
WTF are they planning?
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3956129.stm[/url]
[QUOTE]A secret document obtained from inside Bush campaign headquarters in Florida suggests a plan - possibly in violation of US law - to disrupt voting in the state's African-American voting districts, a BBC Newsnight investigation reveals.[/QUOTE]
Note: Read the full article - don't just comment on the headline quote I grabbed.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3956129.stm[/url]
[QUOTE]A secret document obtained from inside Bush campaign headquarters in Florida suggests a plan - possibly in violation of US law - to disrupt voting in the state's African-American voting districts, a BBC Newsnight investigation reveals.[/QUOTE]
Note: Read the full article - don't just comment on the headline quote I grabbed.
Comments
That said, I'd be willing to bet that in the end, there is no more real fraud than in any other presidential election, its just because of the tight race, any inconsistencies, no matter how insignificant, will receive attention.
In other states they are checking to see how many of the registered voters are still breathing. In parts of IL and OH thats a problem.
Of course as for democratic voter intimidation how about this story?
[url]http://www.local6.com/politics/3785861/detail.html[/url]
funny how that got ignored.
Now I do think it was quite stupid to do...but thats not the reason you brought it up :)
[B]I agree with Biggles. Voter intimidation means they intimidate the voter. This was at a party headquarters so it was dealing with party officials...not voter intimidation.
Now I do think it was quite stupid to do...but thats not the reason you brought it up :) [/B][/QUOTE]
It doesnt have a chilling effect? are you kidding? this action sent a message to republican voters in orlando that vocally supporting Bush could earn reprisals. And if that isnt intimidation I dont know what is.
Not to sound confrontation, but I believe you have gotten caught up in playing semantical games.
And Orlando isnt the only place this has happened.
Honestly party HQ's for both sides are getting trashed, but the majority of incidents seem to involve republican HQ's.
Some of this stuff (if not all of it) is pretty tame compared to the shenanigans that were commonplace (or at least were not unusual) a hundred or more years ago (at least we don't have folks getting the "concrete galoshes" treatment these days; that certainly [I]would[/I] qualify as intimidation:eek: ).
[B]In many states, the republican party is generating lists of people registered to vote then checking to see how many of them are actually legally eligible to vote, in florida they are looking at challenging the votes of convicted felons and non citizens (both of whom are barred from voting under florida law)
In other states they are checking to see how many of the registered voters are still breathing. In parts of IL and OH thats a problem.
Of course as for democratic voter intimidation how about this story?
[url]http://www.local6.com/politics/3785861/detail.html[/url]
funny how that got ignored. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's not voter intimidation. That's a bunch of citizens doing something stupid.
The first article is about possible political plans to disrupt voting. BIG difference.
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ei=5087&en=750be71a2287c9d9&ex=1101441600&rd=hcmcp?p=048CcT048Cea4LXaX012000mEtANEqqV&nl=ep&pagewanted=print&position=[/url]
It starts out with:
[quote]"Bruce Bartlett, a domestic policy adviser to Ronald Reagan and a treasury official for the first President Bush, told me recently that ''if Bush wins, there will be a civil war in the Republican Party starting on Nov. 3.'' The nature of that conflict, as Bartlett sees it? Essentially, the same as the one raging across much of the world: a battle between modernists and fundamentalists, pragmatists and true believers, reason and religion."[/quote]
And goes on from there for about 14 printed pages. I haven't read the whole thing - got to sit down to read it - maybe this weekend.
--RC
[B]That's not voter intimidation. That's a bunch of citizens doing something stupid.
The first article is about possible political plans to disrupt voting. BIG difference. [/B][/QUOTE]
First of all challenging the votes of those who are ineligible to vote isnt "distrupting voting" its fighting vote fraud and attempts to steal the election.
Secondly the AFL-ICO has its hands over similar events like those in Orlando at several other locations.
[B]Yawn... nuthin' new here folks. This kind of stuff has been going on here in the U.S. almost from the very beginning. There's hardly a political party here that hasn't tried some way of getting a leg up on the "competition" (or tried to find some pi**-poor excuse for not being able to field candidates that were worth a damn, much less halfway palatable to the voters).
Some of this stuff (if not all of it) is pretty tame compared to the shenanigans that were commonplace (or at least were not unusual) a hundred or more years ago (at least we don't have folks getting the "concrete galoshes" treatment these days; that certainly [I]would[/I] qualify as intimidation:eek: ). [/B][/QUOTE]
Id hate to agree with ex-squid, but he's got a point, this is really mild compared to the stuff that happend prior to the turn of the 20th century. Elections used to be determined by which side cheated the best that year :D
And nobody has gotten killed in a duel recently, so I think were still making progress :D
[B] And nobody has gotten killed in a duel recently, so I think were still making progress :D [/B][/QUOTE]
Not if you ask Zell Miller. ;)
[B]I think he was talking about the progress bit ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
Yep. For those not in the know, after Zell Miller's somewhat... [i]enthusiastic[/i] speech at the Republican Convention, he was interviewed by the fellow from [i]Meet the Press[/i] whose name escapes me at the moment. The interviewer asked Miller to clarify several of his more... [i]colorful[/i] comments, including that John Kerry wanted to arm American soldiers with "spitballs". Miller replied with scorn that he was using a metaphor, and became increasing agitated, culminating in telling the interviewer that he wished duels were still legal, presumably so he could shoot up someone's press-meeting ass.
My grandfather bacame like this near then end, when his small strokes and Alzheimer's were affecting him. I wonder if Zell Miller is retiring for some undisclosed medical reasons?
[B]
Of course as for democratic voter intimidation how about this story?
[url]http://www.local6.com/politics/3785861/detail.html[/url]
funny how that got ignored. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ignored? That's made national news; it certianly has not been ignored.
Besides, the republican plan is to challenge people in minority districts just to impede the process and make voters wait, hoping they'll give up on the long lines and also not bother with the red tape required to overcome a challenge.
Nasty business, that.
How about this little gem:
"If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election." - Republican state legislator John Pappageorge
[URL=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6242175/]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6242175/[/URL]
Can you get any more blatant?
Taken shamelessly from Washington Post White House Breifing ([url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/[/url])
[QUOTE]Ad Watch
Howard Kurtz writes in The Washington Post that "the Bush campaign acknowledged using computer editing to produce a better shot of a military crowd shown in what was to be the president's closing ad Wednesday. The admission came after the liberal blog Daily Kos reported that some faces in the crowd appeared several times. . . .
"Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt defended the doctored ad, said the 2002 photo of a crowd in Fort Drum, N.Y., was electronically altered because part of it was blocked by the president's podium. He dismissed as 'ridiculous' suggestions that it was wrong for the campaign to change the picture of an actual event to improve the shot, noting that 'real soldiers' were involved. But Bush campaign manager Ken Mehlman later told CNN that 'we're correcting the editing error' to substitute the unaltered photo."
Here's the blog post that started it all. Scroll down to see the original photo.[/QUOTE]
People are not going to be allowed to vote if they are not citizens, and then they are not going to be allowed to vote twice. If its a state where felons are not allowed to vote, then they wont be allowed to vote. And the DEAD definatly are not going to be allowed to vote!
Its funny how the problem areas with this situation are almost always in the cities and democratic strongholds.
The laws are going to be used, if you have a problem with that, well TOUGH.
[B]Zell Miller was positively salivating when describing weapons. He's out of control and seems to be getting violent.
My grandfather bacame like this near then end, when his small strokes and Alzheimer's were affecting him. I wonder if Zell Miller is retiring for some undisclosed medical reasons? [/B][/QUOTE]
Anlashok, thats complete BS. And you know it, are you having fun demonizing all who disagree with your positions? statements like that show your at the same level as those your critizing.
As far as the voter intimidation in Ohio goes, here's good news:
[URL=http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/01/ohio.challengers/index.html]http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/01/ohio.challengers/index.html[/URL]
Also, Rush Limbaugh has accused the referees of makinf bad penalty calls to cause the Redsknis to lose to help Kerry. now THAT is bullshit!
No link because doing a Google search for the terms required leads to all the stories about Limbaugh's racist comments a couple years back.
yes he's getting older and crankier, but he's not THAT old he's only 72.
2. Its bad news, the republicans are not "intimidating" anyone, there has been alot of work to identify certain people who are either registered illegally, or have multiple registrations.. And the democratic party is tacitly condoning this fruad because its being commited by its members and allies.
And I bet it will be overturned, although probably not in time to matter.
and lastly as for the rush limbaugh thing have you ever heard of hyperbole?
Now I agree that there is voting fraud. I disagree that it is only from Democrats. Why is the GOP not challenging in precincts that aren't inner city primarily minority areas?
The largest illegal double voting occurs from the following:
- Absentee voting and local voting in 2 different states
This generally effects only two groups of people:
- College students
- Wealthy
So why aren't the Republicans checking up on those two groups? They don't exactly support Republicans (though the wealthy are fairly well split between the two parties). So why target inner city areas in battleground only states in only primarily democratic districts.
If you want to stop voting fraud you can't target any location - especially using ethnic, political, and economic profiling.
Secondly challenging at the polls is legal in many states, and thats why they are doing it there, they CANT CHALLENGE in any other venue, its not a tort, and violations of these laws are at the disgression of the local country DA to prosecute, and guess what, they dont want to, gee I wonder why?
[B]If the Republicans have problems with some registrants, why wait until the people are at the polls?[/B][/QUOTE]
Because until then, they're not voters? ;)
[B]The largest illegal double voting occurs from the following:
- Absentee voting and local voting in 2 different states
This generally effects only two groups of people:
- College students
- Wealthy
[/B][/QUOTE]
What's your source on that bit of information?