Issues with your account? Bug us in the Discord!
New idea! Why do you LIKE a politician?
Random Chaos
Actually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
in Zocalo v2.0
The question here is: What do you LIKE about the 2 political canidates.
Now...a few ground rules:
1. There are two types of posts allowed:
..A: Opinions LIKING a canidate
..B: Factual counters to previous opinions
2. Factual counters need to cite source evidence (you don't need to link to it...but you can say things like XYZ Report).
The idea is to make a non-biased non-attack based thread of what a canidate offers and what commonly accepted things they offer they really don't offer.
I ask the admins to help keep this on topic.
--RC
Now...a few ground rules:
1. There are two types of posts allowed:
..A: Opinions LIKING a canidate
..B: Factual counters to previous opinions
2. Factual counters need to cite source evidence (you don't need to link to it...but you can say things like XYZ Report).
The idea is to make a non-biased non-attack based thread of what a canidate offers and what commonly accepted things they offer they really don't offer.
I ask the admins to help keep this on topic.
--RC
Comments
If anyone posts an attack or other statement that I feel is not proper, I will simply delete it. If a post is topical enough, it will stay. I'd like to see this thread stay on topic. However, if you feel the need to discuss, open up a new topic about it.
Other qualities I like about Bush: I believe he is a man of deep conviction, who firmly believes what he is doing is right whether or not you agree. Too often we say we want a leader who has conviction, but reward the leaders who tell us what we want to hear.
Kerry: I believe Kerry is the brighter of the two candidates, and has much more experience at skills that are important for a president, such as negotiation and reconciliation.
A twist: People who I would want to see as presidential candidates:
Republican:
Sen. John McCain <- I think he’s one of the most balanced and intelligent senators today
Sen. Elizabeth Dole <- I just like history as head of the Red Cross, and would make a great first woman pres.
Gov. George Pataki <- Serious rumors about a run in 2008, like what I’ve seen so far
Rudy Giuliani <- Anyone who can run New York can surely be president
Sen. Jim Talent <- Too junior a senator to run, but one of the most straight forward politicians I’ve ever heard.
Democrat:
Sen. Joe Lieberman <- along with McCain, one of the more balanced, thinking senators around
Rep. Dick Gebhardt <- Just cause he’s from Missouri
[B]Sen. Joe Lieberman <- along with McCain, one of the more balanced, thinking senators around[/B][/QUOTE]Also rabidly opposed to exposing children to anything more violent/suggestive than a math textbook.
Bush: He's a religious bigot, but I do believe that we've done more good than harm in Iraq.
Kerry: Supports stem-cell research, not a complete heterosexual bigot.
[B]If Bush got shot & was sent to the hospital he would be like [I]"I hope your all heterosexuals."[/I] :indywink: [/B][/QUOTE]
LOL... What happens if he ends up dead?
[quote]Bush: He's a religious bigot, but I do believe that we've done more good than harm in Iraq.
[/quote]
Ummm How so Exile, The rebels are getting worse, and the movment is spreading according to Indenpant Journalist who was on Global 2 - 3 weeks ago, He said that the Iraqi Police are turning a blind eye to the Rebels?? and thats good?
[B]Ummm How so Exile, The rebels are getting worse, and the movment is spreading according to Indenpant Journalist who was on Global 2 - 3 weeks ago, He said that the Iraqi Police are turning a blind eye to the Rebels?? and thats good? [/B][/QUOTE]Remember that Hussein guy? He was worse.
[B]Ummm How so Exile, The rebels are getting worse, and the movment is spreading according to Indenpant Journalist who was on Global 2 - 3 weeks ago, He said that the Iraqi Police are turning a blind eye to the Rebels?? and thats good? [/B][/QUOTE]Remember that Hussein guy? He was worse. We can make a big fuss about every single American soldier who dies serving his country and democracy, but in the end, we did the right thing in ending a dictatorship.
George W. Bush (R): His diligence is commendable. No matter what is said or done, he does not give up once he is moving towards a goal (By goal, I mean a personal goal, not necessarily implied or stated).
John Kerry: Certainly an intelligent man and an excellent speaker. He knows his material well, and can handle a tough situation with an ease that few can ever hope to.
John McCain (R): This man is perhaps my favorite politician out there. He's open, he's honest, he's straight forward. He knows how to deal with people and situations. A billiant individual with an incredible moral foundation and a clear goal to better this nation. (Off Topic: I would die to have this man as President. He is everything we want in a politician, with some to spare)
Howard Dean (D): Dean is one of the few truly active politicians out there. He's always pushing for increases in freedoms, and I love him for that. His views may not always mesh up with mine, but he is a very intelligent, well spoken man who has a true love for politics. His decisions are all thoughtful and well-planned, and his actions typically well executed.
[B]Remember that Hussein guy? He was worse. [/B][/QUOTE] I can understand why he was so fucking bad, Look at the people he had to deal with.
(I'll just assume Simmonds posts aren't destined to survive, and stop replying to them...)
I like Dino Rossi because he is better looking than Gregoire for starts, and the fact he would probably come to the convention I help run ;p
>.>
-Quigoni
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by the_exile [/i]
[B]In Kerry's defense, his reputation for flip-flopping comes--in large part--from being a part of the legislative branch. In the Senate, everyone has their own agenda, and in order to get your own across, sometimes it is necessary to make deals with people whose agendas you don't necessarily completely agree with. "Support my bill and I'll support yours" type situations. Or, at least, that's how my Economics teacher explained it to me. :p
(I'll just assume Simmonds posts aren't destined to survive, and stop replying to them...) [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually that is partly where the flip-flopping allegations come from, but not the reason.
The legislative branch has to deal with senators developing really stupid admendments that get put through onto legislation as well as important admendments that get tagged onto legislation that will never pass. If a senator put a reasonable tax cut admendment as part of a bill that would also make it illegal to drink until you wer 45 years old, Bush counts this as 1 vote of Kerry's against lowering taxes. Same thing with flip flopping - you have to look not at what he voted by why he voted - and in those terms he is very consistant and disiplined.
Also you have to look at the view of America at the time he voted. For instance, Bush saying that Kerry voted to lower intelligence spending...well...almost all of congress voted for that bill. It was immediately after the collapse of the USSR and the US government didn't feel the need to spend so heavily in intelligence now that the cold war had ended. Similar things can be said about many other arguments. The situation changes.
Someone who adapts to new facts and ideas is someone who thinks about the "why" and the "how" things should be done. Kerry quite clearly is willing to adapt - and becuase of this Bush labels him a "flip flopper." It is this ability to adapt is part of why I like him. (I also feel it is unjust to label something good with a word that evokes bad feelings.)
--RC
P.S. - I don't feel that being strong in convictions to the point of being non-maliable when the facts and environment change makes a good leader. You have to adapt of some enemy who adapts will roll over you and your country.
Now the one vote that burns me about kerry, is the fact that he voted against giving the aid our troops needed. Now either way you look at it, even if you are opposed to the Iraq war- is it fair to our troops to vote against a bill that gives them aid? I dont agree with voting against the right bill, just to make a statement. Please correct me if there is something I missed with that arguement.
I have to agree iwth the pro- McCain people here- I think he would make an awesome president, and I think he is the kind of man we need for the job (just read what Sanfam said). Possiblity in 2008??