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Reshaping the Middle East?
Biggles
<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
in Zocalo v2.0
[url]http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/Swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5229801[/url]
[quote]U.S. President George W. Bush has declared Iraq and Afghanistan to be on the road to democracy and
stability and has said they will become models for reshaping the entire Middle East.[/quote]
Why does the entire Middle East need to be reshaped? Yes, I know that some of the countries there arn't exactly the best at human rights, but it's clear that the current US administration and Bush feel that everyone must do things their way.
[quote]U.S. President George W. Bush has declared Iraq and Afghanistan to be on the road to democracy and
stability and has said they will become models for reshaping the entire Middle East.[/quote]
Why does the entire Middle East need to be reshaped? Yes, I know that some of the countries there arn't exactly the best at human rights, but it's clear that the current US administration and Bush feel that everyone must do things their way.
Comments
Afghanistan is also far from stable. In the last week and a half the President of Afghanistan had an attempted assasination, and so did the VP. US military continues to fight the Taliban and terrorist remnants, which grow stronger. Even in Afghanistan there are questions whether any election would be viable.
In Iraq...elections are completely impossible. 15% of people showed up for local elections in Basra becuase of fear instilled by the terrorists (see BBC). So how exactly does Bush's quote make any sense at all???? I would like to see some basis in fact for what he says!
:rolleyes:
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B][url]http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/Swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5229801[/url]
Why does the entire Middle East need to be reshaped? Yes, I know that some of the countries there arn't exactly the best at human rights, but it's clear that the current US administration and Bush feel that everyone must do things their way. [/B][/QUOTE]
And they call that democracy.... Thats like France invading the United States during the American Revolution, and writing the US Consitution for the Americans.... All in order to gain a strategic postision in North America/
Edit: Theres a good song about this Called "Amerika" By rammstein, also the music video for it makes the point more clear aswell
[quote]U.S. President George W. Bush has declared Iraq and Afghanistan to be [b]on the road to democracy and
stability[/b] and has said they will become models for reshaping the entire Middle East.[/quote]
He said "on the road," not that they already have stability and democracy.
The bad thing about pulling out of Iraq now would be that most of the country would end up in a civil war (which would be far worse than what's going on now) since none of the factions there care to work with each other. Unfortunately, that may end up happening anyway; it's yet another "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation that won't be improving anytime soon...
DC: If Bush really wanted oil that badly, he probably could've cut a deal with Kuwait or Mexico for a helluva lot less than what it has cost to invade Iraq and "keep the peace" there; I wouldn't be surprised, though, if driving oil prices up (which would help Bush & Cheney's oil industry buddies - not to mention their own investments) would've been a strong incentive for invading.
[B]RC:
He said "on the road," not that they already have stability and democracy. [/B][/QUOTE]
"on the road" by inference implies that some progress has already been made and that there is an expectation that it will be accomplished.
Our progress, if any, has been minor toward stability - Iraq was more stable in the weeks after Saddam's fall then it is now! Additionally the NIE says that there should be no expectation of accomplishment - best case says it will not change in being semi-stable. Worst case is it goes to full civil war. This is not "on the road to stability" - in fact this is more accurately "on the road to instability."
To say "on the road to stability" means that there is a favorable outcome (pertaining to stability) at the end of the road. Right now there isn't...
--RC
P.S. - This is much like saying that "we are on the road to immortality" from the B5 episode with Death Walker.
[B]Bush said they are "on the road to democracy and stability" despite the intelligence people saying they're more on the road to anarchy and chaos. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats not what the NIE says
The worst case scenarios in the NIE have also destroyed the planet in nuclear war 3 to 4 different times, and the NIE is a SHORT term analysis of possible trends, so that should tell you how much you should take them as gospel.
first of all they are generalities, not specifics, what they do is outline what the capabilties are, and potentialties that exist, without saying "this is whats going to happen"
So stop making assumptions about what the NIE says, and find it and read it.
:eek:
:p :D
[B]The situation in the middle east sometimes reminds me about the book "Dune", offworlders trying to conquer the native people without managing it. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, the Middle East is the most messed up part of the world (IMO). Why? Probably because of what happened to the place after WW2 - divided up into artificial "countries" by the great powers.
[B]Thats not what the NIE says
The worst case scenarios in the NIE have also destroyed the planet in nuclear war 3 to 4 different times, and the NIE is a SHORT term analysis of possible trends, so that should tell you how much you should take them as gospel.
first of all they are generalities, not specifics, what they do is outline what the capabilties are, and potentialties that exist, without saying "this is whats going to happen"
So stop making assumptions about what the NIE says, and find it and read it. [/B][/QUOTE]
Okidoki. Anyway, that has nothing to do with my original question. Why does the Middle East particularly need to be reshaped by the western world?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Captain,Simmonds [/i]
Edit: Theres a good song about this Called "Amerika" By rammstein, also the music video for it makes the point more clear aswell [/B][/QUOTE]
just seen it...excellent :)
Liked the last shot where you see the stage used to create the moon stuff :)
[B]DC: If Bush really wanted oil that badly, he probably could've cut a deal with Kuwait or Mexico for a helluva lot less than what it has cost to invade Iraq and "keep the peace" there; I wouldn't be surprised, though, if driving oil prices up (which would help Bush & Cheney's oil industry buddies - not to mention their own investments) would've been a strong incentive for invading. [/B][/QUOTE]Iraq has one of the biggest oil reserves in world.
Bush's vision of democrasy is as far from it as Stalin's:
You'll do what you're told and we want or you're unpatriotic traitor and we'll have right to do anything to you.
PS. Just translating third season.
what scary is that is partly true
[quote]Iraq has one of the biggest oil reserves in world.
Bush's vision of democrasy is as far from it as Stalin's:
You'll do what you're told and we want or you're unpatriotic traitor and we'll have right to do anything to you.
PS. Just translating third season[/quote]
Thats so true, But mention that facts makes you a unpatriotic traitor is you Live in the US
-Zoltan