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Whose actually going to vote this year?
The Cabl3 Guy
Elite Ranger
in Zocalo v2.0
This year I'll be 19 & will be able to vote. I am defineatly going to vote. Now I may just be one person but I want to be heard!
The thing is some people just dont give a damn. I'm wondering if any of ya that can vote, won't this year.
The thing is some people just dont give a damn. I'm wondering if any of ya that can vote, won't this year.
Comments
s'funny.. cos the USA has such humungus power it almost seems morally correct for the whole dang world to vote in the US Presidential election. Mind you that would sort of set an uncomfortable precedent, almost a default leader of the world, or perhaps just legitimising that sort of thinking... lets face it the US President controls alot more than just stuff within the US national borders and its bases and 'projections of power'. It makes sense that those affected by the decsions of the US Presidential office should be able to elect that officer...
[B]heh... dang... I'd like to vote too !
s'funny.. cos the USA has such humungus power it almost seems morally correct for the whole dang world to vote in the US Presidential election. Mind you that would sort of set an uncomfortable precedent, almost a default leader of the world, or perhaps just legitimising that sort of thinking... lets face it the US President controls alot more than just stuff within the US national borders and its bases and 'projections of power'. It makes sense that those affected by the decsions of the US Presidential office should be able to elect that officer... [/B][/QUOTE]
No, not really. In fact, it makes no sense at all since the U.S, government has influence, but no real control over most of the worlds governments, no matter what the perception is.
Whats funny is somthing my friend told me... This guy he knows, when he goes to vote He just puts a line threw the Ballot... Becuase he does not like any of the partys... Techinaly he did vote, but did'nt vote for anyone at the same time.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Cabl3 Guy [/i]
[B]This year I'll be 19 & will be able to vote. I am defineatly going to vote. Now I may just be one person but I want to be heard!
The thing is some people just dont give a damn. I'm wondering if any of ya that can vote, won't this year. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ugh,y'all are so young, this will be my 4th Election, and i'm definately going to vote,. now. should i vote for Santiago.. or...
Early voting is the way to go.
Alot of US policy affects the rest of the world, even some of the internal stuff.
I bet niether of you thought about primary production subsidies for US farmers, if you even know what they are... and how they affect the world market for commodity prices. That's only ONE of many US policies which affects the rest of the world.
Both of you need to travel outside the US and realise how different the world really is...
[B]Whats funny is somthing my friend told me... This guy he knows, when he goes to vote He just puts a line threw the Ballot... Becuase he does not like any of the partys... Techinaly he did vote, but did'nt vote for anyone at the same time. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's actually not funny at all, it's a completely valid voting tactic. It was used by a few hundred thousand people in Taiwan earlier this year.
[B]Bobo, Cable guy... you are a prime example of the kind of insularity the rest of the world hates about the USA
Alot of US policy affects the rest of the world, even some of the internal stuff.
I bet niether of you thought about primary production subsidies for US farmers, if you even know what they are... and how they affect the world market for commodity prices. That's only ONE of many US policies which affects the rest of the world.
Both of you need to travel outside the US and realise how different the world really is... [/B][/QUOTE] YOu foo Im in the UK & I have been to France, Belgium & TIJUANA!
The United States is all about opportunity. There is an opportunity to create a small business and build it into a large success because we have tried to keep the red tape and taxes to a minimum. As a result there are few safety nets for those people who take the big risk. The United States also has one of the highest rates of home ownership in the world. The rest of the world is a slave to a landlord. It is just a different way of doing things. Many people hate our success – and don’t understand what it took to get where we are.
The European system opts for safety nets for everyone be it extensive welfare or healthcare systems. Those systems provide safety but they also choke out a certain amount business innovation and the risk-takers because there is such a high tax burden and so much government interference. More socialist nations have double the unemployment rate of the US – but their people are minimally always taken care of. They have less small business and creative business because of the difficulties of making it on your own.
If the entire world was allowed to vote in my elections it would totally change the makeup of the US. My freedoms and opportunities would disappear. I like doing things for myself and my family – I like making my own choices and bearing the risks and rewards. I would never ask anyone else to take on the burden of my poor choices like socialist systems do. Others voting in my elections would take away my rights, opportunities, and happiness.
Diversity in government and freedom for all gives people the opportunity to move to a place in peace that reflects their own needs. SB voting in the US would diminish that. I would hate to live in a place like Canada – I would never be happy. I would live life knowing that I was going to have to pay for the healthcare of every overweight smoker I saw – even though I had made the hard but healthy choices. In the US I am happy with the right of a person to be a smoker or overweight because they will bear the pleasures and burdens of their own choices.
Regarding SD’s comment about the whale. Canada or the EU could cut off all economic and political relations with the US if they felt that our actions were hurting them so badly. Canada and the EU could drop the mutual defense pacts you have with the US. That way you could start footing the bill for much of your own defense rather than US taxpayers. You/they have not made many moves to distance yourselves economically from the US. It is in your power to “leave the pond” if you really thing the US has such a bad effect on you.
SB commented about the US farm subsidies. I agree – I don’t like subsidies. However, Canada regularly dumps timber on the US market driving prices down and putting US timber in jeopardy. Asia also regularly dumps metals on us putting US steel in jeopardy. That is the way of the world – our hands are not clean – but neither are yours – so you are not preaching from some higher ground. I find it interesting that the very people who complain about the WTO and free-trade also complain about nations that have subsidies. There is a double standard.
Do I think the choices of the US effect the world. Yes they do. However, the rest of the world could also distance themselves from the US if they wanted. They have not yet. Why you ask? Because there are still more benefits to you/them to keep working with us. Other nations can break off relations with us at any time. However, it would be a hard pill to swallow because there are so many benefits when we work together.
In that spirit of working together I will encourage SB to stick to the issues rather than making personal attacks on people.
Konrad....
My attacks are not personal. The two guys I singled out are just examples of a larger picture., Now that you've piped up, make that 3...
Despite your arguement which is, in places, quite sound you're only further re-enforcing the point I'm making.
Ok so you believe in the freemarket system and the often brutal and anti-social consequences of it. Greed, self service and aggrandisment is what drives the US system, when the veneer is pulled off. You can succeed without stomping on everyone else around you, if of course you give a damn. (This goes for both the world and within the USA.)
Yeah I'd like to vote in the US elections because the very system you hold up as wonderful... isn't. Quite the opposite. The rest of the world basically has one option when it comes to trying to get the USA to pull its head in occasionally... harsh language. We all know how effective that isnt...
...yeah... I'd like to change the US system and the horde of screaming hungry billions behind me has some stuff they want to say too...
Your fear, and those you US citizens who share that fear don't like to admit the truth. There is a gross injustice and inequity in terms of real wealth distribution (not just money). Unless the USA can learn to really 'share', its screwed. The counter claim to this is an indignant, 'But we earned it !". Yeah, sure you did, on who's land ? How many native americans are left ? Did they get paid commeasurately for the land upon which you 'white guys' have built your wealth ? I don't remember seeing hundreds of well to do Navajo in New Mexico and Arizona when I was there last...
Yeah... great... land of the free/brave, (and greedy and selfish).
~~~~~
The 'why don't you go somewhere else and play if you dont like us' excuse is also equally abhorrent.
Where are we going to go where the USA doesnt have some fingers in the pie ? Coke is sold in all but two countries. Mcdonalds isnt too far behind. The US influence is entirely pervasive. The US dominates everything of fiscal value. Everyone who's serious about making the best use of a product goes to the USA, to try and climb the walls into the market there. Nine times out of ten you need a US backer, (we cant have anyone going into the US market unless there are some US people investing and hence controlling the product or service and we can't have too much money leaking out of the US either. )
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As far as subsidies go, Australia has none whatesoever. The US markets are some of the most well protected and defended in the world.
No, I'm not putting AU up as a shining example. We suck, only the ammount varies.
I have to respect your right to your opinion, but in the end, it is yours, and is no more valid than anyone elses, mine included.
You have a local, regional, and national government. You have an opportunity to affect them. Until you change these systems to be more to your liking, don't worry about mine. If you do affect them to produce the results you've advocated in several threads, then you're view point will impact my government, in one way or the other.
[B]SB,
I have to respect your right to your opinion, but in the end, it is yours, and is no more valid than anyone elses, mine included.
You have a local, regional, and national government. You have an opportunity to affect them. Until you change these systems to be more to your liking, don't worry about mine. If you do affect them to produce the results you've advocated in several threads, then you're view point will impact my government, in one way or the other. [/B][/QUOTE]
I just personally find it funny that many (not all) euorpeans like to bash the US about things that they themselves did for 100's of years, The British Empire for example, Your countries tried to take over the world many times over. Is your memory actually that short that you forget that your countries are guilty of many of the same things that you now accuse the US of.
Do i like everything my government does? No way in hell, but i also don't like everything the Uk government does, or the French, or the Russians or the Turks.
No government is perfect, Not ours, Not yours, Not Theirs. its the nature of the beast.
[B]I just personally find it funny that many (not all) euorpeans like to bash the US about things that they themselves did for 100's of years, The British Empire for example, Your countries tried to take over the world many times over. Is your memory actually that short that you forget that your countries are guilty of many of the same things that you now accuse the US of.
Do i like everything my government does? No way in hell, but i also don't like everything the Uk government does, or the French, or the Russians or the Turks.
No government is perfect, Not ours, Not yours, Not Theirs. its the nature of the beast. [/B][/QUOTE]
No european has bashed you in this thread.
*pops a bag of popcorn*
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Entil'Zha [/i]
[B]I just personally find it funny that many (not all) euorpeans like to bash the US about things that they themselves did for 100's of years[/B][/quote]
And I for myself find that sentence quite funny. "themselves"?? It's funny how people don't make a difference between the people who live now on this planet and who lived in the past. Or between those who have actually done something and who haven't.
Besides, has any of us Europeans ever said, that those things done by any European countries/governments were actually any more right in our opinion? Actually we condemn all the bad things done by our countries just as well. At least I do.
And does that make it somehow more acceptable what the US might be doing right now?
No, it doesn't. If someone has made something wrong, it doesn't give anyone else the right to do wrong, or make it any more right, or acceptable. (Which btw actually reminds me of also another matter which is also related to US. But that's another case.)
Besides doing "bad things" is even more condemnable now as it was in the past as then the world and people were very much different and we should've learned from those events from the past many times already and be wiser than the people back then.
[quote][B]The British Empire for example, Your countries tried to take over the world many times over. Is your memory actually that short that you forget that your countries are guilty of many of the same things that you now accuse the US of.[/B][/quote]
That was a long long time ago and done by different people many generations ago and I don't think current people in Europe think that all those actions back then were justified. But like I said above, the world and people were very much different back then. That world and the present world can't be compared.
Besides, we have learned from those events and evolved. Most of us anyway. But alas it looks like the same can't be said of the US at least to the same extent.
[quote][B]No government is perfect, Not ours, Not yours, Not Theirs. its the nature of the beast.[/B][/quote]
Yeah, but in all honesty yours is currently not even close as good as it should be. And I for one hope, that US will get a new and better government after the upcoming election.
- PJH
[B]And does that make it somehow more acceptable what the US might be doing right now?[/B][/QUOTE]
No. It just makes those complaints hypocritical.
[B]heh.. well Cable guy it obviously had no effect on your blinkered/ignorant perspective.. what a shame. In fact if anything it makes you look even more foolish. If you're not a US citizen then you don't even have that excuse ! [/B][/QUOTE]
Let's make your comments clear. Did you just say that because someone is an American, they are inherently foolish? I would hope that isn't what you're saying...that you're not using ignorant, sweeping generalities to paint an entire race/nationality/religion/culture/INSERT SOCIAL CATEGORY HERE, since we know the company that you would be keeping if I believed that was actually what you were saying.
[B]My community knows what is best for our chosen way of life. As a result it is best that we vote on our own issues. If the entire world was able to vote in our elections we would not get what was best for us. There would be no diversity in the world. It would all be wiped out because there would be the same rules governing everyone.
and a lot more of blablablablabla
[/B][/QUOTE]
sure sure sure sure sure. And the US is so much in debt that...well...it is impossible to understand actually how much.
But look at this way in the United States you don't vote for a governor in your state than have the option to vote for a governor in a state you dont live in much less have a border with. The same goes at regional level. It just wouldn't make any sense. Now lets say the world is just one big intertwined state which it kinda is. Every nation has an effect on the global economy & every nation can have a global effect. It still wouldnt make any sense for each country to be able to vote in the other's system, too much chaos would ensue. Would you have it that Germany be able to vote for so n so in France & vice versa? They would never accept that!