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And people wonder why I'm republican...
A2597
Fanboy
in Zocalo v2.0
Shit like THIS is enough to make me want to go for vigilante justice:
Planned Violence at the RNC.
from liberal super hero: [URL=http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/]Ted Rall[/URL]
[quote]
Like the hapless saps whose blood they sent to be spilled into Middle Eastern sands, they will be given intentionally incorrect directions to nonexistent places. Objects will be thrown in their direction.
---
[b]rumor has it that prostitutes suffering from sexually transmitted diseases will discourage the use of condoms with Republican customers.[/b]
---
Strikebreaking policemen and private security personnel may be able to keep the protesters away from the convention hall. But Republicans who venture outside the Garden deserve the abuse ordinary New Yorkers will likely inflict upon them.
[/quote]
Makes me wish Osama did a better job...
I can understand being upset, I can understand protest. I can even understand protest turning into riots.
But planned violence against people with different views should have you sent to the front lines armed with rubber bands against opposing terrorist forces IMO. :mad:
Planned Violence at the RNC.
from liberal super hero: [URL=http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/]Ted Rall[/URL]
[quote]
Like the hapless saps whose blood they sent to be spilled into Middle Eastern sands, they will be given intentionally incorrect directions to nonexistent places. Objects will be thrown in their direction.
---
[b]rumor has it that prostitutes suffering from sexually transmitted diseases will discourage the use of condoms with Republican customers.[/b]
---
Strikebreaking policemen and private security personnel may be able to keep the protesters away from the convention hall. But Republicans who venture outside the Garden deserve the abuse ordinary New Yorkers will likely inflict upon them.
[/quote]
Makes me wish Osama did a better job...
I can understand being upset, I can understand protest. I can even understand protest turning into riots.
But planned violence against people with different views should have you sent to the front lines armed with rubber bands against opposing terrorist forces IMO. :mad:
Comments
But still, in my opinion it's not the same thing.
As for that being why you're republican, well that's just stupid. That's saying that all democrats (or indeed, all liberals) are in with this sort of thing.
I've seen FAR to much of this kind of stuff going on, and every bit seems to be coming from the far left.
Don't get me wrong, I don't blame this on ALL of them, I have libral friends, democratic friends, shoot, my sisters a democrat. None of them would try this kind of thing, but I can picture more then one of them finding it funny.
The far left wants to kill those that don't believe as they. Or at the very least cause some kind of harm to their opposition.
The far right = ultra conservative people that don't curse, arn't promiscuous, and could happily live with the Amish.
You tell me what side suddenly looks better?
[B]Just this:
The far left wants to kill those that don't believe as they. Or at the very least cause some kind of harm to their opposition.
The far right = ultra conservative people that don't curse, arn't promiscuous, and could happily live with the Amish.
You tell me what side suddenly looks better? [/B][/QUOTE]
Do you honestly believe things are that black and white?
But still, if you want to follow that train of logic, then lets go ahead and kill all the christians because of what happened during the crusades and the salem witch trials. Hell, lets go full out and nuke Germany off the face of the planet because of what Hitler and his goons did during WW2, and give Japan a bunch of A-bombs and let them bomb us into submission for what we did to them when we dropped those two bombs on them. :rolleyes: I never thought I'd see the day when you of all people turned out to be a fucking bigot. :mad:
From what I've seen, yes.
(I'm talking FAR FAR sides here, the extream left and right).
We'd expect the two sides to be black and white though, they are kinda 100% oppocites. But I don't think it's too much to ask the extream left to act with some small amount of incommon decency.
*Notes verts post and edits in further comments*
Vert, I'm not talking your average Democrat. I'm talking the far far left. The extramist that actually carry out this kind of shit.
In my opinion, they are far worse then anything the Arabic extreamist could cook up, because they work from in here under the notion of being patriotic.
And where do you get off calling me a bigot? I Have NO problem with people thinking differently then I. What I hate are people wanting to kill their fellow countrymen because of that.
I'm not the one telling Prostetues to give STDs to the democrats. I'm not the one handing out fake maps. I'm not the one trying to get people to attack people of the opposing political group.
I'm saying the jerks like that need to be taken out with the trash. It makes theentire USA look bad, it makes all democrats look like unsympathetic imbacils.
THOSE people are the bigots, not I. Re-read before flaming please. :p
"Republicans against universal health care let those not rich enough die without enterence into hospitals"
I might point out that it doesn't matter where you are looking at things from, you can always find religious zealots, be it extreame liberal activists or be it anti-abortion activists. Are you saying that you are a republican becuase you abhor condoned violence by a non-associated liberal group? But at the same time condone the actions of the non-associated clinic bombers?
In a lot of ways this discussion augers back to the ideas expoused by terrorists: they disagree with the establishment and use violence to furtuer their ideals. If you look at the groups involved, they are all fundamentalists or anarchists. Abortion clinic bombers are fundamentalist christians, terrorists are fundamentalist islamics (in the middle east) or fundamentalist catholics (in Ireland), those that bomb car dealerships are fundamentalist pro-environment. In every case the term "fundamentalist" is attached to the idea or religion so as to both dissasociate them from the establishment and so as to make them a target. As is being found out (albeit when it is too late) not all fundimentalist movements are limited in scope. We are locked in a strugle now not just against fundamentalist islam but against all fundamentalist regimes. The ultimate conclusion of such a strugle is either (a) that the establishment wins, all press is censored so it does not run counter to the establishment, and psychiatric analysis is done to make sure no one will ever question the establishment, or (b) that the fundamentalist win and we revert to a fuedalistic society splintered by ethnic and cultural barriers.
We must not let either result happen. The fundamentalists want (b) to occur. The present administration seems to want (a) to occur. We must be somewhere in between. By saying that you are a republican becuase you don't like one violent extremest organization places you in the postion where you must embrace either your own extremest organizations or condem them to the point where you support complete sensorship for the sake of the establishment.
--Random Chaos
Can we get off my idiotic title which everyone has taken in a manner compleatly different then I intended it, and back on subject?
You all have managed to take a title that, I admit, was in poor choice. My other option was "Planned violence at GOP" but I thought that a little dull. (Aielbeit the better choice it seems) and I was more then a little pissed when posting this topic (Never a good idea) and it occured to me that this is one of the reasons I dislike the far left. (Remember, I'm talking the extreamist) So I posted that title.
Cooler heads prevail of course, but sheesh, you guys read far to much into stuff. (Especially vert...I still don't see how that title makes me a bigot. I'm complaining ABOUT bigots for petes sake. LOL)
[B]Curz:
Vert, I'm not talking your average Democrat. I'm talking the far far left. The extramist that actually carry out this kind of shit.
[/B][/QUOTE]
So, you associate the democrates with the extreame liberals, but you don't associate the rebublicans with the extreame conservatives (ie abortion clinic bombers)?
Very selective in what you will tolerate, don't you think?
[B]So, you associate the democrates with the extreame liberals, but you don't associate the rebublicans with the extreame conservatives (ie abortion clinic bombers)?
Very selective in what you will tolerate, don't you think? [/B][/QUOTE]
And he wonders why I called him a bigot. :rolleyes: I slapped his ass on ignore the second he started complaining about me calling him a bigot saying I "read too much into it".
[B]So, you associate the democrates with the extreame liberals, but you don't associate the rebublicans with the extreame conservatives (ie abortion clinic bombers)?
Very selective in what you will tolerate, don't you think? [/B][/QUOTE]
Where did I say I associate Democrats with extream librals?
Where?
I associate extream librals with extream librals.
I associate extream...I can't call them conservatives, because what they do goes against all conservative values, but I concider them terrorist, same as I concider the extream leftist planing this shit terrorist.
See? No double standard.
Democrats != libral
Republican != conservative.
So quit saying I'm things I'm not because of a stupid title, will you?
[B]And he wonders why I called him a bigot. :rolleyes: I slapped his ass on ignore the second he started complaining about me calling him a bigot saying I "read too much into it". [/B][/QUOTE]
very bright, ignore anything someone says after reading to much into a title made in anger. *sigh*
:rolleyes:
Just remember, whats said in anger often bares little resemblance to the truth.
You guys have known me since what? 1999? You know I have a hot head, and you know how I really feel on most these issues.
I'd ask for a thread close, but that won't happen.
Where? [/b]
By saying this is why you were a republican.
[b]I associate extream librals with extream librals.
I associate extream...I can't call them conservatives, because what they do goes against all conservative values, but I concider them terrorist, same as I concider the extream leftist planing this shit terrorist. [/b]
And what extream liberals do goes against all liberal values.
[b]See? No double standard.
Democrats != libral
Republican != conservative.
So quit saying I'm things I'm not because of a stupid title, will you? [/B]
I didn't even read the title actually. It was the content of your posts from now and your actions in previous posts that I am responding to. I take it you also never heard of conservative Democrats or Liberal Republicans. Then again this is the result of someone who has faith in a weak two party system.
[B]very bright, ignore anything someone says after reading to much into a title made in anger. *sigh*
:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]
HELLO?! Is there anyone in there?! You lumped all democrats into the same boat with your initial post, then you went back on it when you got called on it? Make up your fucking mind you worthless troll.
[B]And I'll be leaving for awhile, obviously you guys all got rialded up over this...so I'll wait for you to cool off a little before replying again.[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, because everyone else obviously needs to cool off, but not you. :rolleyes:
[B]Curz:
From what I've seen, yes.
(I'm talking FAR FAR sides here, the extream left and right).
We'd expect the two sides to be black and white though, they are kinda 100% oppocites. But I don't think it's too much to ask the extream left to act with some small amount of incommon decency.[/B][/QUOTE]
Would we really expect the two sides to be black and white? Did it slip your mind that there are actually people in these extremes of yours, or are you referring to the United Robot's Assembly? People are different, people act differently, people make different choices regardless of what political affiliation they have. Thus, you cannot possibly say that one side acts in a certain uniform way and another acts in another uniform way.
[B]I am seriously and personally offended by your ignorance and lack of moral and ethical integrity A2597. You make wide degrading and insulting judgments of entire groups of people. Honestly I am offended by you weakness in character more than I am of the author of the article that was written. [/B][/QUOTE]
Then my dear friend, that makes you the exact type of hypocrite you acuse A2597 for being. For he is doing nothing then behaving in the same manner as the author of the original article.
Lets be honest, skip the voting and get straight to the killing.
I in general think most democrats are fools, because they do not realize that what they are setting up is a return a state in which the masses will be government by an even more rigid eliet then currently exists. Europe is rocked by as many overt and covert corruption scandles as the US is, if not even more.
When you "socialse" sectors of the economy what you do is take them from a narrow group of capatlist eliets, you transfer them to in truth a narrow group of beurocratic eliets, that via various mechanisms can even MORE throughly insulate themselves against public accountabity then can corporate eliets.
When you mix the powers of the sword and the purse you create an entity of enormous power, and in truth, when you have a socialist economy that is what you have done.
Now on to the topic at hand.
The type of rhetoric that is being aimed at the republican party is dangerous as hell, and the democrats, including those here better condem it FAST and QUICK.
It is one step shy of knocking us into a civil war. I have heard people, in person at PSU, on the Damn Portlenders LJ list and other places seriously suggest killing GWB, and other republicans, staging thigns that amount to coups and if they do win the election having many republican policy makers arrested. And other democrats have turned a blind eye to these comments.
That is a bad idea. If there is massive violence at the republican national convention it will probably trigger a violent conservative backlash, that will probably much like the Nationalist backlash against the so called "Republican" forces in spain (who were just communists in disguise) will result in a bloody civil war, and ultimatly the destruction of the domestic left.
Yes I know I sound appocolyptic, but having been damn near threated in person for my political beliefs, I feel we have reached that point.
Have you ever read the view from the protestors? I have and I find it quite disturbing. I am not refering to the accounts of protestors but rather the reports of independant observers of protests. Specifically the methods by which the protest's free speech is being impaired by random arrests that are caused by virtually staged activities.
Protests aren't riots. What makes protests riots is overzealous law enforcement. At the same time there are exteame elements that mingle with a protest group specifically to antagonize the police into such overzealous action.
The fact is the US Bill of Rights and Constitution gives us freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. It also does not give us the freedom to destroy other people's property. This is where the border occurs that causes the extreame levels of contention: in order to enforce law and order, to what extent is one allowed to infringe upon the inherent freedoms of society?
Based on the intent of our Constitution and Bill of Rights, no infringement is allowed. This simply means that there can be no arrest of a non-suspected person. There can be no arrest before an act is comitted. This means that arrest due to "intent" is not allowed, unless some crime was comitted in the process of intent (such as assualt with intent to murder). This does not include "assembly with intent to destroy property" as "assembly" is specifically a freedom given to use as Americans.
I strongly resent any and all police and law enforcement activities that prohibit the freedom of assembly. I also strongly abhor arrests of non-guilty people to "prevent" unrest. This is counter to the American way.
It doesn't matter how outlandish the cause of the protestor is, they have a right to protest. If they comit a crime during the protest, then they should be arrested. They should not be arrested or stopped becuase they "say" they will comit a crime. To do thus is un-American.
--RC
[B]
The far right = ultra conservative people that don't curse, arn't promiscuous, and could happily live with the Amish.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Hitler was on the Far Right and alot of people got killed becuase of him... I can also think of a few other exsamples of extream right people who got people killed... Bin Laden is one aswell
And when we say liberal are we talking about a Liberal Party or somthing else???
[B]Hitler was on the Far Right and alot of people got killed becuase of him... I can also think of a few other exsamples of extream right people who got people killed... Bin Laden is one aswell
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes.
Most religious fundamentalist movements, including islamic terrorism, are considered far right/ultra conservative.
This is part of why it is so bad a choice for use to be fighting an islamic fundamentalist movement while having a born-again fundamentalist as president.
[B]Then my dear friend, that makes you the exact type of hypocrite you acuse A2597 for being. For he is doing nothing then behaving in the same manner as the author of the original article. [/B][/QUOTE]
What I ment was that I took A2597 generalizations to a greater degree of insult than the author's wish to impose harm onto others. However when the authors own generalizations are factored in thn the degree of that element is the same.
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(Thats exactly 100, hand typed, and checked for editing)
OK, I've cooled down. Looking back, I relize just how pissed I was. Even my attempts to back down look like advances...yeash. Looks like I've inherited my grandmums temper. (Never seen it myself, but heard some stories. :D)
Sorry all around folks, I said ALOT of really stupid things I didn't mean to. I didn't intend to say, and the things I intended to say were lost in everything else I said. (Does that even make sence?)
I was mad because I saw this at another forum, and as if the text of the message wasn't enough, no one at the other forum was against it. It was alot of "Great idea" and "Funny" and overall it turned into an outright Bush/Republican bashing fest...and well....I retaliated here when my intention was to simply spread the word of what was going on. :(
Again, sorry guys, I came off as a total prick. :(
[B]What I ment was that I took A2597 generalizations to a greater degree of insult than the author's wish to impose harm onto others. However when the authors own generalizations are factored in thn the degree of that element is the same. [/B][/QUOTE]
So basicly A#'s ramblings rank BELOW the authors tacit approval of harm being done? I find that a skewered belief. First the author generalizes beliefs about republicans to the same extent that A# does, and furthermore encourages people to take what are tantamount to hostile actions towards those people. Hell the way he phrases his rhetoric is just this side of an incite to violence. And that still ranks BELOW what A# said?
To be honest I believe your opinions are shaped by poltical beliefs, that since A# insulted you personaly, your more greviously offended, then offence taken at essentially somebody who is writing a very UN democratic piece and advocating thought hegemony via various formes of coercion. I also believe that if the roles were reversed your opinon would also be reversed.
now Im getting some icecream.
[B]There is no doubt that the country is devided, but that is not really the issue here.
Have you ever read the view from the protestors? I have and I find it quite disturbing. I am not refering to the accounts of protestors but rather the reports of independant observers of protests. Specifically the methods by which the protest's free speech is being impaired by random arrests that are caused by virtually staged activities.
--RC [/B][/QUOTE]
RCl I can speak of is my personal witnessing of protests here in portland, being somewhat active in repulican party politics, its in our interests to observe these events, and my physical apperance lets me blend in. I have PERSONLLY OBSERVED situations where the "protestors" have used violence and coercion.
Conspiracy has always existed in western legal codes, because without laws against conspiracy police could NEVER prevent any crimes, period, they would have to wait till there was a cooling corpse in order to interviene and that seems to be a foolish notion
I have seen a police officer assualted and a security guard assualted. I have seen rocks thrown, bottles thrown, I have even witnessed on the may day 2001 "parade" a box for vending newspapers thrown at police.
I have witnessed so called "peacefull demonstrations" be anything but and the voilence STARTED by those "demonstrators." And the force used in response was NOT proactive "overzelous" policing.
then again portland is called "little beruit" for a reason.
Now you can claim that its just a few bad apples, but those apples are being protected by the larger group which to me translates to tacit approval and sponsorship of those actions
And lastly you NEVER have had the right to go around making threats to commit a crime. No one has ever imagined such a right. In fact by your logic, protective court orders by people against those who threaten them should be made illegal.
If you plan on killing someone, and the police discover it, they do NOT and NEVER have had to wait till you are in the course of acting to arrest you. If they have substantive evidence to prove that you had a plan to commit a murder, assualt, or other act and were intent on carrying it out, that in and of itself has always been considered a crime.