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How can people be so stupid?
A2597
Fanboy
in Zocalo v2.0
Almost the entirety of the Rage3D forum agrees Japan tried to surrender to the US before we bombed Nagasaki. We bombed them purely as revenge/to show off.
WTF?!? Yes. Lets just ignore the Potsdam Decleration, and rewrite history by popular agreement that the USA is a horrible nation bent on the destruction of the earth. Sheesh!
To the point: Anyone have any idea where the theory originated?
WTF?!? Yes. Lets just ignore the Potsdam Decleration, and rewrite history by popular agreement that the USA is a horrible nation bent on the destruction of the earth. Sheesh!
To the point: Anyone have any idea where the theory originated?
Comments
EDIT:
Somthing to keep in mind: History is writen by the victors.
[B]Somthing to keep in mind: History is writen by the victors. [/B][/QUOTE]
I knew a guy named Victor. He wasn't really good in history, I guess if he would have written the history himself he would have been better at it.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]Almost the entirety of the Rage3D forum agrees Japan tried to surrender to the US before we bombed Nagasaki. We bombed them purely as revenge/to show off.
WTF?!? Yes. Lets just ignore the Potsdam Decleration, and rewrite history by popular agreement that the USA is a horrible nation bent on the destruction of the earth. Sheesh!
To the point: Anyone have any idea where the theory originated? [/B][/QUOTE]
link us to the thread my good man, so that we may demostrate the rightousness of the truth to the fools!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]link us to the thread my good man, so that we may demostrate the rightousness of the truth to the fools! [/B][/QUOTE]
Just FYI - flaming them will only prove their point, in their eyes. I wouldn't recommend posting to that thread unless you're familiar with that part of history. If you're a history major in college or familiar with it as a hobby or part of your job, I'm guessing you (generic you) could probably debate them under the table (and over, around, to the left and a few feet behind).
[url]http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33770435&page=1&pp=30[/url]
someone finally posted where they were getting this idea..lots of links.
according to them, Japan indirectly offered to surrender by means of Russia, and well...who knows.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JohnD [/i]
[B]Just FYI - flaming them will only prove their point, in their eyes. I wouldn't recommend posting to that thread unless you're familiar with that part of history. If you're a history major in college or familiar with it as a hobby or part of your job, I'm guessing you (generic you) could probably debate them under the table (and over, around, to the left and a few feet behind). [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, I know where alot of the stuff is coming from. Ive heard similar from others, who in turn got it from certain people with strong associates to the 4th International.. you know what that means.
The whole "surrender" being brokered by the soviets was kind of a misnomer, there was an armistice being proposed but it was such that the japanese would have retained posesion of korea and parts of china, which nobody was willing to accept.
I find the fact that those fools are siding with a regieme that was deliberatly cruel, brutal and believed that all non japanese were sub human to be disgusting. They are fawning japanese fan boys of no substance.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]They are fawning japanese fan boys of no substance. [/B][/QUOTE]
You know, that's actually a believable reason for them being convinced about this sort of thing...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]To the point: Anyone have any idea where the theory originated? [/B][/QUOTE]
It probably has something to do with how the world's largest armies surrounded Japan, and that we'd been bombing them for so long and so well that they were sort of used to having their cities destroyed by then.
Of course, I've heard that some people in Japan didn't want to surrender even after we nuked them...
[quote][i]Originally posted by Captain,Simmonds[/i]
Somthing to keep in mind: History is writen by the victors.[/quote]
You say that because you didn't recieve a Japanese education in history.
History is written by the survivors, whether they won or lost. If you don't know that, you don't know your history well enough to make any sort of claim about it.
-Napoleon Bonaparte[/quote]
[B]I will say it once and I will same it again... I dont know what to BELIEVE..... I dont know whats true or fake.
EDIT:
Somthing to keep in mind: History is writen by the victors. [/B][/QUOTE]
...and edited by those with spell checkers!
:D
Japan did express interest in surrendering before our second bomb drop. However, becuase there was no direct method of communication between Japan and the United States this desire had to go through neutral intermediary countries. As far as records indicated this first probe toward peace was not recieved by Washington until after the 2nd bomb drop.
There is however a strong sentiment arround the world, and perhaps not unfounded, that the second bomb drop was unneeded and perhaps the US had actually recieved the probe for surrender first. The United States was interested in unconditional surrender only. Japan initually wanted conditions. When we dropped the second bomb it was, according to the US, that we wanted only unconditional surrender. However there is a second overriding posibility that is strongly believed throughout much of the world: that we dropped the 2nd bomb to say to the USSR that "we have more then one." At the time we knew that Russia was working on developing nuclear weapons. We wanted them not to think we only had one and thus give them a chance to catch us. This opinion is held widely in former USSR countries.
Further, the main overriding reason we dropped the first bomb, rather then using a more conventional method of firebombing cities (which actually did as much damage as a nuclear attack - see sources on the firebombing of Tokyo), was to bring a fast end to the war so that Russia would seize less land on Asia then a protracted war would result in. The cold war had already begun before the end of WWII. As soon as Truman came to power after FDR's death the USSR was no longer a "freind" but rather an "assistant of convienience." To many scholors in political science, the purpose for our second bomb being dropped was likely more directed toward the USSR then toward Japan.
When taking this possible direction as a fact, it leads to the idea that perhaps Japan would have surrendered without the 2nd bomb drop. In fact, they probably would have!
But the facts are: Japan was only probing to see if the US was interested in a conditional surrender before the 2nd bomb was dropped. The US only wanted an unconditional surrender. Therefore our terms were not met, and thus the 2nd bomb drop.
[B]Somthing to keep in mind: History is writen by the victors. [/B][/QUOTE]
Don't forget an infamous Men In Black quote:
"An individual person is smart, but people are crazy lunatics and you damn well know it!" - K
Seriously though, we could debate either way till the end of time, but it won't mean a damn thing. 20/20 hindsight is a real bitch ya know.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MT [/i]
[B]You say that because you didn't recieve a Japanese education in history.
History is written by the survivors, whether they won or lost. If you don't know that, you don't know your history well enough to make any sort of claim about it. [/B][/QUOTE]
Put it this way, apparently a few years ago a Japanese filmmaker decided to do a WWII film from the Japanese point of view, but painted it in such a light as the Japanese were 'enlightened liberators of the people from the brutal colonialists'.
The fact that they attempted to build their own empire is no small irony.