Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Netscape 6.x has trouble with things that IE does well, true. But those things are almost always M$ HTML rather than standard HTML.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Actually, I don't mind the black background. B5 is a noir-ish show. Black is good for the B5 universe. Instead, I'd tone down the white background in the news blocks in order to bring down the harsh contrast and make it easier on the eyes. Maybe add another color to the background of those blocks - maybe an off-white towards the warm tones.
Obviously - just an opinion. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[quote]Originally posted by Randy:
[b]... I'd tone down the white background in the news blocks in order to bring down the harsh contrast and make it easier on the eyes.[/b][/quote]
I think Sanfam is working on that very idea, Randy. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
I also like the black background, by the way.
[This message has been edited by samuelk (edited 01-01-2002).]
First, I hope Sanfam includes my HTML snippet which will hopefully make NN4.xx users happy again.
[quote]Originally posted by Biggles:
[b]Netscape <6.0 will have problems due to the way it handles tables and other standard HTML things. And if you guys want us to use CSS then Netscape <6.0 is right out the door entirely.
[/b][/quote]
Um, Biggles, NN may be not very "intelligent" in rendering tables but concerning "standard HTML", I have to say that not following MS "standards" doesn't make NN a bad browser.
Your statement about NN and CSS is harsh, to say the least.
You can produce good HTML for NN as well as MSIE without big problems (yes, even NN4.xx). Many people are just too lazy and ignore the browser(s) that they don't use.
------------------
We are one. No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one.
No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.
- Alliance Preamble to the Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals
Webmaster [url="http://www.Sprungtor.de"]www.Sprungtor.de[/url]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[quote]Originally posted by Language of Hope:
[b]Um, Biggles, NN may be not very "intelligent" in rendering tables but concerning "standard HTML", I have to say that not following MS "standards" doesn't make NN a bad browser.
Your statement about NN and CSS is harsh, to say the least.[/b][/quote]
My statement is not harsh at all. I said further up that the stuff that Netscape doesn't show is usually M$ HTML, [b]not[/b] standard HTML. I noticed you didn't bother to quote that. Also, I was simply pointing out that Netscape versions before 6.0 do not handle style sheets, and they don't. The browser is simply too old and so doesn't have the support for them the way more recent browsers do. Netscape 6.0 and up does though. It just means that you need to handle versions before 6.0 slightly differently.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Ok, Thanks to Language of Hope, the page now works in netscape.
It was those evil little "nowrap" bits that got inserted. What is strange is that I never once put them there.
[b]*cue twilight zone-ish music*[/b]
------------------
[b]Sanfam[/b] - Pixel Pirates
[i]"We are the Microsoft. Withdraw your lawsuits and release your patents. We will add your copyrights and intellectual property to our own. Your programmers will be adapted to service us. Resistance is futile."[/i]
Come and listen to the official shoutcast server of Firstones.com! It's Spootastic! [url="http://sanfam.dyndns.org:8000"]http://sanfam.dyndns.org:8000[/url]
"It is the year 2000. Where are the flying cars? I was Promised flying cars. I don't see any flying cars." -- Avery "Sisko" Brooks
I subscribe to the attitude porojected by the WSP that the sooner people stop using Netscape 4 and switch to Netscape6 the better. Then we can get on with creating funky web sites once more
BTW - the site is spot on now in NS4. Also looks Fine in Opera 6 and in Konqueror, so you've now got a site that works in about 99% of the worlds browsers. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Babylon6 (edited 01-03-2002).]
Now, I'm toying with backgrounds to help the contrast problem for the moment. What do you all think of this one? It's not black, but it's not bright and distracting.
Also, I'm in need of a new title image. I have a basic idea, but I think a color image, interlaced (as with the rest of the page), perhaps also monochrome, but not absolutely...
see aardvark.firstones.com for a nice sample one.
Better as in my eyes arn't distracted by the black background anymore, so I can concentrate of the text.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
I think the dark blue blends in much better than the black did, and we still get to keep the nice looking white text boxes. Much better.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
I think the black background was fine and indeed suitable for a B5 site. Besides that white background of the news items still hurts my eyes. The contrast is really terrible. You should really change them, not the BG of the page itself, cause it won't help. There's simply just too big area of bright white on the page.
- PJH
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
PJH: How do you survive on the web? A huge proportion of the webpages around use far more white than we have.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Btw Sanfam, when you changed the background color of the page you forgot to change the background color of the news item tables and now they all have small black corners. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Ssh! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
as I said, I'm experimenting. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/tongue.gif[/img]
It may or may not stay depending on the changes to the tables.
I think the darker/deeper/richer colors gave it a more profesional look. (IMHO)
The layout is fantastic BTW. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
You can have the ultimate in personal looks soon. Once Sanfam works out how to make it go.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
We have that option on our Uni website. When we logon to the site, you get your own personal desktop, and you can have a colour scheme of your choice, like red, mustard, etc... I don't bother with it too much, but it's nice to have the choice.
So I hope Sanfam is wise and adds Green to the list of colors!!!! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
Of course. Now, the only problem is that it'll take some time to do, as I am a newbie in this area. So far, I've taken many small crash-courses, but I have a ways to go.
I think I'm going to change the background to black again. I also have found a solution to the "Jagged edges" on the section titles! It is a big "duh" on my part.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Both green and purple will be on the list. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[quote]Originally posted by Falcon1:
[b]We have that option on our Uni website. When we logon to the site, you get your own personal desktop, and you can have a colour scheme of your choice, like red, mustard, etc... I don't bother with it too much, but it's nice to have the choice.
[/b][/quote]
Similar to the Preferences at [url="http://www.appleturns.com/preferences/"]As The Apple Turns[/url]? That would be perfect. Sanfam, E-Mail that man and ask him how its done! Or rip the HTML right form his pages like a ravenous hyena. You [i]know[/i] you want to. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/shad.gif[/img]
I'm not sure how it works on our site, its asp code as far as I know. I could ask if you like Sanfam.... I'm sure my webmaster boss wouldn't mind passing on the code...
------------------
'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
If you want to try doing some sort of customisation then just give me a shout on ICQ. Now you have completed the CSS crash course I am sure we can try for some cookie handling [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
You basically need to decide what form of customisation you are going for. Once you decide then you can look at HOW you do it.
The options are many.
Do you want to:
1). Allow users to pick their own colors for text, links, backgrounds etc? I would say no as most folks won't bother.
2). Allow people to pick from predefined looks? Best way IMHO.
Create 2 or three look n feel combinations and then allow the user to store their preference in a cookie or in a querystring attached to the url (or in some other way).
You will need to write some PERL or PHP to do this I would guess, although I would recommend you try to do it all with CSS. That way you can create a separate CSS stylesheet for each look you want and when the page loads you can check the user preference and either add a reference on the server with CGI, or on the client with Javascript.
This will require you to do a bit more on the home page to get EVERYTHING into CSS. You need to set the background images in CSS for example.
If you want to go further and have totally different page layouts, images etc then thats even easier but a lot more work as you have to create a complete page for each layout. Again, the user picks and stores a preference and you then display the relevant page, based on the choice. One way would be to put the code in SSIs and conditionally #include the chosen layout...
I SERIOUSLY recommend you go for the CSS option. Won't take long and you can churn out look and feel combinations a lot faster than you can brand new page layouts...
Plus you could invite users to submit their entries. Maybe even have a competition [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
I did it before on a site and some of the color schemes, and imaginative uses of CSS trickery was amazing...
------------------
Babylon6 in orbit @ [url="http://www.nomad-jedi.com"]http://www.nomad-jedi.com/[/url]
[b]Check out the writing skills of this person: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
[This message has been edited by Babylon6 (edited 01-06-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Babylon6 (edited 01-06-2002).]
fah... a man leaves for two weeks while hes moving and everything changes... what is the world coming to???
I like BTW [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
Idiocy is not a learnt thing, but neither is it a genetic thing. It is simply something that jumps from genration to generation as it chooses and latches itself onto certain individuals.
Aint life great :) :) :)
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Where were you moving to?
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Comments
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Obviously - just an opinion. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[b]... I'd tone down the white background in the news blocks in order to bring down the harsh contrast and make it easier on the eyes.[/b][/quote]
I think Sanfam is working on that very idea, Randy. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
I also like the black background, by the way.
[This message has been edited by samuelk (edited 01-01-2002).]
------------------
'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
[quote]Originally posted by Biggles:
[b]Netscape <6.0 will have problems due to the way it handles tables and other standard HTML things. And if you guys want us to use CSS then Netscape <6.0 is right out the door entirely.
[/b][/quote]
Um, Biggles, NN may be not very "intelligent" in rendering tables but concerning "standard HTML", I have to say that not following MS "standards" doesn't make NN a bad browser.
Your statement about NN and CSS is harsh, to say the least.
You can produce good HTML for NN as well as MSIE without big problems (yes, even NN4.xx). Many people are just too lazy and ignore the browser(s) that they don't use.
------------------
We are one. No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one.
No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.
- Alliance Preamble to the Declaration of Principles, The Paragon of Animals
Webmaster [url="http://www.Sprungtor.de"]www.Sprungtor.de[/url]
[b]Um, Biggles, NN may be not very "intelligent" in rendering tables but concerning "standard HTML", I have to say that not following MS "standards" doesn't make NN a bad browser.
Your statement about NN and CSS is harsh, to say the least.[/b][/quote]
My statement is not harsh at all. I said further up that the stuff that Netscape doesn't show is usually M$ HTML, [b]not[/b] standard HTML. I noticed you didn't bother to quote that. Also, I was simply pointing out that Netscape versions before 6.0 do not handle style sheets, and they don't. The browser is simply too old and so doesn't have the support for them the way more recent browsers do. Netscape 6.0 and up does though. It just means that you need to handle versions before 6.0 slightly differently.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
It was those evil little "nowrap" bits that got inserted. What is strange is that I never once put them there.
[b]*cue twilight zone-ish music*[/b]
------------------
[b]Sanfam[/b] - Pixel Pirates
[i]"We are the Microsoft. Withdraw your lawsuits and release your patents. We will add your copyrights and intellectual property to our own. Your programmers will be adapted to service us. Resistance is futile."[/i]
Come and listen to the official shoutcast server of Firstones.com! It's Spootastic! [url="http://sanfam.dyndns.org:8000"]http://sanfam.dyndns.org:8000[/url]
"It is the year 2000. Where are the flying cars? I was Promised flying cars. I don't see any flying cars." -- Avery "Sisko" Brooks
BTW - the site is spot on now in NS4. Also looks Fine in Opera 6 and in Konqueror, so you've now got a site that works in about 99% of the worlds browsers. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Babylon6 (edited 01-03-2002).]
- PJH
Also, I'm in need of a new title image. I have a basic idea, but I think a color image, interlaced (as with the rest of the page), perhaps also monochrome, but not absolutely...
see aardvark.firstones.com for a nice sample one.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Not sure on the new background. Personally, I think a Black background is more suitable for a B5 site.
Perhaps a tiled black image with a design on it maybe? how about this one...
------------------
Babylon6 in orbit @ [url="http://www.nomad-jedi.com"]http://www.nomad-jedi.com/[/url]
[b]Check out the writing skills of this person: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
[This message has been edited by Babylon6 (edited 01-04-2002).]
- PJH
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
- PJH
as I said, I'm experimenting. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/tongue.gif[/img]
It may or may not stay depending on the changes to the tables.
The layout is fantastic BTW. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
So I hope Sanfam is wise and adds Green to the list of colors!!!! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
I think I'm going to change the background to black again. I also have found a solution to the "Jagged edges" on the section titles! It is a big "duh" on my part.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b]We have that option on our Uni website. When we logon to the site, you get your own personal desktop, and you can have a colour scheme of your choice, like red, mustard, etc... I don't bother with it too much, but it's nice to have the choice.
[/b][/quote]
Similar to the Preferences at [url="http://www.appleturns.com/preferences/"]As The Apple Turns[/url]? That would be perfect. Sanfam, E-Mail that man and ask him how its done! Or rip the HTML right form his pages like a ravenous hyena. You [i]know[/i] you want to. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/shad.gif[/img]
------------------
'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
If you want to try doing some sort of customisation then just give me a shout on ICQ. Now you have completed the CSS crash course I am sure we can try for some cookie handling [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
You basically need to decide what form of customisation you are going for. Once you decide then you can look at HOW you do it.
The options are many.
Do you want to:
1). Allow users to pick their own colors for text, links, backgrounds etc? I would say no as most folks won't bother.
2). Allow people to pick from predefined looks? Best way IMHO.
Create 2 or three look n feel combinations and then allow the user to store their preference in a cookie or in a querystring attached to the url (or in some other way).
You will need to write some PERL or PHP to do this I would guess, although I would recommend you try to do it all with CSS. That way you can create a separate CSS stylesheet for each look you want and when the page loads you can check the user preference and either add a reference on the server with CGI, or on the client with Javascript.
This will require you to do a bit more on the home page to get EVERYTHING into CSS. You need to set the background images in CSS for example.
If you want to go further and have totally different page layouts, images etc then thats even easier but a lot more work as you have to create a complete page for each layout. Again, the user picks and stores a preference and you then display the relevant page, based on the choice. One way would be to put the code in SSIs and conditionally #include the chosen layout...
I SERIOUSLY recommend you go for the CSS option. Won't take long and you can churn out look and feel combinations a lot faster than you can brand new page layouts...
Plus you could invite users to submit their entries. Maybe even have a competition [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
I did it before on a site and some of the color schemes, and imaginative uses of CSS trickery was amazing...
------------------
Babylon6 in orbit @ [url="http://www.nomad-jedi.com"]http://www.nomad-jedi.com/[/url]
[b]Check out the writing skills of this person: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
[This message has been edited by Babylon6 (edited 01-06-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Babylon6 (edited 01-06-2002).]
------------------
Life is full of surprises. The ones reserved for me usually come wearing brass knuckles.
I like BTW [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
Idiocy is not a learnt thing, but neither is it a genetic thing. It is simply something that jumps from genration to generation as it chooses and latches itself onto certain individuals.
Aint life great :) :) :)
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras