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Seal culling
MartianDust
Elite Ranger
in Zocalo v2.0
First time I saw the news on this was yesterday and I still can't believe it! I thought this kind of stuff was years ago. I know fishermen don't want to be out of work but what they are doing is viciously barbaric!! :mad: :mad: :( If they have to do this can't they use some kind of dart to put it to sleep first then kill it?! There must be a better way, though I'm totally against this kind of thing anyway.
And its not just seals that eat fish! Most of the fishes disappearance is due to human consumption! Is why there are laws here to not over fish!! Why do we always have to blame something else other than ourselves?!
Agree? Disagree?
And its not just seals that eat fish! Most of the fishes disappearance is due to human consumption! Is why there are laws here to not over fish!! Why do we always have to blame something else other than ourselves?!
Agree? Disagree?
Comments
Darts cost money and so do all the other "acts of mercy". Fishermen rarely are rich men, so when they do their part in the society they have to keep cost-effectiveness in their minds all the time.
Usually you don't get to see what kind of messy job the butchers must do to provide those juicy stakes you and I eat so you kinda forget where that food is coming from. But when you remember it, you just have to live with it - if they couldn't do their job because of all the bureaucracy and naive "Friend of the Earth/Greenpeace" type ideologies, very many decent citizens would have to suffer.
I'm a member of Greenpeace, an environmental activist and a true greenie.
I've got no problems with hunting seals but I do agree that the club is really 'yesterday'.
You also cant use a tranquilser if the meat is to be used afterwards, and no tranc is fast enough, it would probably give the seal time to climb back into the water and drown when it kicks in.
The biggest crime I can think of is just leaving the carcass behind. Every part of the animal should be used, fur for clothing, eat the meat, use the bones and offal for fertiliser etc. I'm a big believer in the tribal kind of way to treat animals. Thank thier spirits as they leave, for the gifts thier sacrificed body gives you.
The anti-fur brigade makes my blood boil. Hundreds of thousands of skins are thrown away because the market in hides has been destroyed by 'dark greenies'.
I used to be able to destroy a genuine and evil pest on our familys farming property, (my Uncles place now), the red fox. They have a great winter coat which used to fetch about 25 bucks. Now we just leave them hanging on the fence.
Same with the bunnies as far as skins go, atleast I can eat those.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Eclecticonaut [/i]
[B]very many decent citizens would have to suffer. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, whole mankind will suffer if humans don't learn that future of mankind depends on welfare of nature.
[B]The biggest crime I can think of is just leaving the carcass behind. Every part of the animal should be used, fur for clothing, eat the meat, use the bones and offal for fertiliser etc. I'm a big believer in the tribal kind of way to treat animals. Thank thier spirits as they leave, for the gifts thier sacrificed body gives you.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes! Thats how I look upon it too.
One the other hand, as you said MD, the most fish die from human hands so so human-culling would be in order perhaps? :)
It would be interesting to see what crtieria we come up with for deciding which of us would serve our world better as fertliser...
I mean, for God's sake, if this *has* to be done, use a bloody gun, and make the death of the individual Seal quick and painless. Just thinking about this makes me upset, I can't stand this sort of thing when it comes to animals. This clubbing isn't "natural", it's perfectly avoidable.
Regards,
Morden
[B]The seal hunting season will start in finland now, but they'll use rifles to kill them. [/B][/QUOTE]
They use rifles?! Then why can't other countries?! Have to say though I didn't even know Finland still did culling.
[QUOTE][B]
One the other hand, as you said MD, the most fish die from human hands so so human-culling would be in order perhaps? [/B][/QUOTE]
Oh yay I could go for that! At least I certainly felt like clubbing those bastards to see how they like it! I felt sick to the stomach when I saw.
And the news said that alot of seals including baby cubs lay suffering cos they aren't killed properly! And I don't think their fur etc... are used. They also had a poll to vote. I didn't bother as what good would it have done anyhow. Plus am quite certain that the majority of ppl would've been against. Even alot of fishermen.
[QUOTE][B]
I'm a member of Greenpeace, an environmental activist and a true greenie.
I've got no problems with hunting seals but I do agree that the club is really 'yesterday'.[/QUOTE][/B]
Have to say I'm surprised that you're a member of Greenpeace and don't have problems with hunting seals. I thought all greenies were against any kind of hunt whatever the reasons might be.
[QUOTE][B]
Usually you don't get to see what kind of messy job the butchers must do to provide those juicy stakes you and I eat so you kinda forget where that food is coming from. But when you remember it, you just have to live with it - if they couldn't do their job because of all the bureaucracy and naive "Friend of the Earth/Greenpeace" type ideologies, very many decent citizens would have to suffer.[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't know, I thought well in this country at least that animals were killed by one of those guns to the head?! I even remember seeing progs like that in school. But alot of us are hypocrites and ignorant or put it to the back of our minds everytime we eat meat, including me. I know if I had to kill something to eat it, I really don't think I could.
You are right in that alot of animals are killed with suffering in the world.
[B]I thought all greenies were against any kind of hunt whatever the reasons might be.[/B][/QUOTE]
Those are called green parasites.
They would want to preserve every tree here in Finland, when same time their own countries have practically wiped out their forests hundreds years ago.
Same goes for wolfes, here those are coming to yards killing dogs and those green parasites would want to preserve them all and sametime their countries haven't seen wolfes for hundreds years.
Especially Germany and few other central european countries seems to have lot of these green parasites. (who live in cities)
I classify Greenies in three shades
Dark Greenie = 'save everything, to the detriment of the greater ecosystem at large so some fuzzy wuzzy cute animals dont get killed/eaten/stressed. Typically a vegetarian or even vegan, living on welfare in 'drop out' alternative cultural retreats where its all very hippie and caring/sharing. The type to chain themselves to every available shrub in the local park to save it from 'developer capitalist global pigs'. Always with folks like this its heart first, head second, always getting into emotional responses to these sorts of issues, rarely with any sound judgement.
True Greenie = well informed, balanced people with a great deal of genuine respect for the environment, who make every practical effort to do right by the planet, without going overboard.
Light Greenie = those who borrow all the green vernacular, market pitches and style without meaning a single jot of it. The corporations etc who sell a green image whilst they just carry on polluting the shit out of the world as they have for decades.
~~~~~
Ecological management is about compromises. We cant undo centuries of damage overnight, we cant ignore economic realities, we have to eat.
~~~~~
The Aussie kangaroo is a case in point. It's estimated that there are perhaps 800% more kangaroos now than there EVER where before, because pastoralists in outback AU have sunk bores and put watering points for domestic stock over vast tracts of the country. The kangaroo is limited in its home range by distance from water. With reliable water from stock watering troughs, the kangaroos range has increased so much that the estimated original range for the kangaroo is about 10% of its the kangaroos current range.
Now here is an animal perfectly adapted to our country, which produces the softest and most resilent leather known to man. It's fur is soft and durable. It's meat is incredibly lean and extremely healthy eating. It requires virtually zero husbandry and input from farmers outside of keeping the bores and water troughs full.
Instead we graze cattle, sheep and we have a million feral animals... all of which strip and ruin our landscape, because we value the domestic stock, kangaroos are competition to them... and therefore they are a pest to be culled.
Why ?
We can't sell kangaroo meat outside of AU.
Why ?
The market for kangaroo meat and products is closed to us because of one interest group in the United States of America, maintains a powerful lobby group which wont listen to reason or common sense.
The kangaroo is.. and get this... an 'Endangered Species'.
There isn't a more patent load of bollocks, than that little pearler...
... so a group of twenty or so powerfully backed ignoramuses are singly responsible for the continued destruction of the vast majority of Australia's land mass.
All because they want to save the fuzzy wuzzy joeys...
So... does that make clear why I hate fucking stupid dark greenies ??
The next person you hear bitching about the slaughtering of kangaroos... smack em in the mouth and tell them to talk to me !!!
~~~~~
Oh.... and it pays to check your facts rather than believe the sensationalist, dark greenie fed and manipulated media...
...less than 2% of harp seals are/were killed with clubs, the rest were humanely destroyed with rifles.
[B]...less than 2% of harp seals are/were killed with clubs, the rest were humanely destroyed with rifles. [/B][/QUOTE]
In which country are you referring to?
As for the 'Roo's, I know there are lots of them so I agree with your point in that they aren't endangered.
As for greenies. I really thought there was only one type the true type but that didn't accept any hunting either. The dark greenie I would type as a bunch of hippies, the tree hugger types! ;)
Light greenies are a bunch of hypocrites.
[QUOTE][B]
While I'm not a big fan of it, in some cases culling is necessary to keep the population in check. If there are too many of them, they'll all die of starvation.[/B][/QUOTE]
I could say the same for human population. What gets me is that though what you say is true, just because we are the superior race we have to cull the lower intelligent life due to over population and spoiling of the land. I don't think anyone causes more damage than we do. This is what I meant.....we are all hypocrites really. If there had been a more intelligent life than us I daresay we'd be seeing things in a whole different perspective.
What makes us right in what we do?! Just a thought. :)
And I read somewhere that we were the mistake on this planet and we are the parasites that spread and cause disruption everywhere. They were correct. Then again every animal defends for itself. What we tend to forget though is that we are animals too and we make the mistake in thinking we are superior. I sometimes think it would serve us right if some alien life form came here and took over. I don't wish that though. Because I would defend as much as everyone else, its human nature after all! :)
At least it's more humane than spreading a biologically engineered plague designed to kill only certain type of people or all of them in a specific region...
I hope the biological engineered plague never happens!
We could have a prob with population declining anyway due to mens sperm count. Didn't they predict it would be halved?! I don't know when they predicted this. But its a worry nevertheless. This has to be down to pollution.
Then again women don't need a man to have babies, or they won't in the future. Scarey for a guy really.
[B]Some countries (is it China?) where you are only allowed to have two babies. If more alot get left lying in the road dying. I was totally disgusted with this. And I don't think its something that can be controlled easily. [/B][/QUOTE]
You're allowed one, not two, and it's simple logistics. If they could have as many as they wanted China's population problem would be even more extreme. In rural areas it still is, because many ignore the law out there since children are useful as a labour source on family farms, not to mention supporting the parents when they get older.
I would hate though to be limited to being able to only have one kid, that must be hard if you just want another kid.
:)
[B]The best way to control the population growth is to deny breeding. I'm pretty sure that at some point there must be some sterilization through food or water in the most overpopulated countries because it isn't rational to feed people just to lenghten their starvation.
At least it's more humane than spreading a biologically engineered plague designed to kill only certain type of people or all of them in a specific region... [/B][/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, that would have the unfortunate effect of getting spread around the world due to this little thing called trade.
[B]Tis an awful reason to have kids for labour but I know it exists, same in India.[/B][/QUOTE]
Same is also true in Africa.
[B]Same is also true in Africa. [/B][/QUOTE]
Same here, my dad made me chop wood today. ;)
bring on Childrens day, just like Dad's Day and Mothers Day..:D
maybe they can cull seals for pocket money ?? :D
[B]Same is also true in Africa. [/B][/QUOTE]
Don't forget the urban myth over there that if you have sex with a virgin (whether or not they're of legal age) that you can't get AIDs, or if you have it it'll cure you...which is why its so rampant over there.
[B]You're allowed one, not two, ..... [/B][/QUOTE]
They have a surplus of males in many regions of China now as a result of their legislation. It is impossible now for many to find a partner. (a bit like "life" on the net! :D )
Years ago I saw a program where they described life in one region of the Himalayas. If I remember rightly it was the one area where it was not only socially acceptable but the norm that a woman would have 2 husbands simply because there was an imbalance in the population.
Not sure what any of that has to do with seals though!
About population. I have notaced that countrys that have a high standard of living have very low birth rates, Canadas birth rate is 0.95 and droping. Also I dont realy want to have any kids becuase there are all ready to many people on this planet right now.
[B]About population. I have notaced that countrys that have a high standard of living have very low birth rates, Canadas birth rate is 0.95 and droping. Also I dont realy want to have any kids becuase there are all ready to many people on this planet right now. [/B][/QUOTE]
Simmonds, surely you have a better reason than that! One kid isn't going to make any difference. Course if alot of ppl thought like you then you'd be correct in thinking that way. But as it goes so many ppl do and will have kids. :)