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Big Brother just got a little uglier
shadow boxer
The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
in Zocalo v2.0
[url]http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=2B1A03UDVLARSCRBAE0CFEY?type=domesticNews&storyID=4741600[/url]
Yay...
So bascially anyone visiting the USA is technically akin to a criminal....
....fingerprints, mugshots...
...I fear for this world.
Please remove Bush from office, please find a way to deal with paranoia which doesnt play right into the hands of the Terrorists...
...terrorists want fearful targets.
Besides which, if Terrorists really want in to the USA, they can fly into Canada, Mexico and skip the land border... Mexico is tougher granted... but you simply cant fence em out completely. It also does nothing to prevent homegrown zealots from becoming active terrorists.
When I come to the States next time I think I may just lean on the hotplate with my index fingers... I've effectively erased my fingerprints while I've been metalworking before. It's not that painful at all and you cant do it in such a fashion as to only cauterise off the very topmost layer. Maybe I should wear some coloured contacts and shave off my beard as soon as I get to my hotel...
... and if you haven't gathered it yet I'm pointing out that these measures will make little difference to someone wanting to get into the USA 'unannounced', or give intelligence and enforcement agencies something to track a real terrorist with.
All this new measure will do is piss off and alienate everyone whom should be the USA's allies.
It's common knowledge that if you treat someone like a criminal they will eventually reward your lack of faith with exactly what you branded them with.
Yay...
So bascially anyone visiting the USA is technically akin to a criminal....
....fingerprints, mugshots...
...I fear for this world.
Please remove Bush from office, please find a way to deal with paranoia which doesnt play right into the hands of the Terrorists...
...terrorists want fearful targets.
Besides which, if Terrorists really want in to the USA, they can fly into Canada, Mexico and skip the land border... Mexico is tougher granted... but you simply cant fence em out completely. It also does nothing to prevent homegrown zealots from becoming active terrorists.
When I come to the States next time I think I may just lean on the hotplate with my index fingers... I've effectively erased my fingerprints while I've been metalworking before. It's not that painful at all and you cant do it in such a fashion as to only cauterise off the very topmost layer. Maybe I should wear some coloured contacts and shave off my beard as soon as I get to my hotel...
... and if you haven't gathered it yet I'm pointing out that these measures will make little difference to someone wanting to get into the USA 'unannounced', or give intelligence and enforcement agencies something to track a real terrorist with.
All this new measure will do is piss off and alienate everyone whom should be the USA's allies.
It's common knowledge that if you treat someone like a criminal they will eventually reward your lack of faith with exactly what you branded them with.
Comments
Worf
Your opinion is noted for what it is; an opinion. I admit that America has overstepped its bounds in a number of ways in the past decade...but I challenge you to back up all of these claims with hard evidence and some expert commentary. I don't even trust what governmentally employed political advisors have to say most of the time.
So go ahead, flame all you want. Just know that although you mentioned Bush once, your statement is taken by me as a statement against all Americans. Everyone is ethnocentric...whether they want to be or not. I am, you are...everyone is. I'm striving to be less so, and more aware of the world around me, and I hope you are doing the same.
Sorry about the rambling...that post just set me off a little
I mean, a passport has your photo already, so all thats new is the fingerprints, and what bloody good are those.
Frankly, Bush is the only candidate that I would accept. Whats his face would trash this nation in a heart beat. He'd pull us out of Iraq, which would leave that nation in MUCH worse shape then it is now, and make the US a huge ass target for terrorism.
So SB, I'll leave your nation to your judgment, leave ours to us.
I'm not ethnocentric to any real degree...
...I favour good people and good policy.
eh.... 'experts' = people hidebound enough to believe they know everything about a subject and fall flat on thier arse when someone dares come along and prove them wrong.
Besides which, I haven't made any claims or stated any facts which arent any more than common sense. They shouldn't NEED five url refs and a page of explanation, backup and 'proof'.
And if you say I should vote for Ralph Nader, I will...well, I don't know what I'll do...but GAH!
[B]*yawn*...well, we have to choose between George W. Bush and John Kerry...I thought that the 2000 election was a choice between the lesser of two evils...this one just makes me want to sit at home and drink, rather than vote for either of them [/B][/QUOTE]
Ain't that the bloody fricken truth...
:rolleyes:
I do not give my allegiance to any nation, cetainly not to AU in its current state... our Prime Minister is a tiny minded little conservative and Dubya's bicycle...
and Ahash...
why not blood tests ? DNA ? retinal scans ? stool and urine sample ? cavity searches all round ?
this is a campaign of inches... not something you'll notice till its too late. Fingerprints and mugshots are the thin edge of a much larger wedge.
Do you feel like showing your drivers licence when you drive across, at the STATE border Ahash ? Then being mugshot and fingerprinted before you allowed on your way ?
Do you want to submit to the same sorts of scans within your own country to fly interstate ? Remember the 9/11 planes were interstate and not international flights.
These 'security' checks are all perfectly 'legitimate' ways of trying to curb terrorist movement inside the USA.
[B]*yawn*...well, we have to choose between George W. Bush and John Kerry...I thought that the 2000 election was a choice between the lesser of two evils...this one just makes me want to sit at home and drink, rather than vote for either of them[/B][/QUOTE]
See, that scares me. Democracy is all about voting, it's all about the government [b]representing[/b] the people. If you don't feel that your government represents you then DO something about it. YOU, not the government, are America. It scares me that the leader of the most powerful country in the world is elected by one of the smallest voting percentages of any country. That's disgraceful. The outcome of this years election will have repercussioins around the world, but only Americans have a voice in it. And you're saying you won't take that voice.
I don't care who you vote for, but don't you dare roll over and go to sleep. Don't you dare.
-Φ
PS. RedAssAg05: I know this rant sounds directed only to you because I quoted you, but I'm assuming you're view is shared by others. I'm ranting at a plural you: all of you.
[B]It scares me that the leader of the most powerful country in the world is elected by one of the smallest voting percentages of any country. [/B][/QUOTE]
Also there's this weird voting system.
And even counting those votes doesn't seem to be working well.
I will vote for my state and local officials, etc...and I will probably end up casting my vote for president...but I'd just as soon not. None of them deserve my vote in my opinion.
Its unfortunate that this conversation would inevitably turn into a bit of a slugging match of opinions...but that's politics.
I would say more now...but I'm a bit tired...I'm sure I'll be back.
If y'all are going to talk about politics, [B]KEEP IT CIVIL.[/B] There's no need to bash people or ideas just because they are different.
Now, debating a subject is a whole other matter. This usually consists of supporting evidence (aka newspaper articles, encyclopedia, almanac, etc.) that goes along with your argument. A lot of people these last few months fail on the "evidence" side of a debate. ;)
If y'all want to take your gloves off for a fight, then do so cleanly and fairly. Remember, this is [B]JUST[/B] a [B]MESSAGE BOARD[/B] . There's no need to get ugly with someone you haven't met (and most likely never will). :D
============================
Now, what exactly is wrong with fingerprinting and photo IDs? When a person in the United States gets a driver's license or an ID card, they are photographed and usually thumb printed. This is for identification purposes ONLY.
It's the same concept for foreign visitors. When you enter into the US as it stands now (and before the September 11th attacks) your entry is recorded. Your name, address, etc. is all entered into a computer documenting your entrance. When you leave the US, the same thing is done again to document your exit from the country.
Now, photographs and fingerprinting is just the next step in our high tech society. I can think of a number of reasons why there is nothing wrong with this program. First of all, if you were hurt, killed, or otherwise became incapacitated while in the United States, there would be records that officials could look at so they know who you are and whom to contact since they have your address, etc.
Honestly, people need to stop and step back and look at the overall picture. Everyone automatically assumes "terrorists" when any safeguard, rule, etc. is implemented on any government level. Yes, I'll admit some of these implementations revolved around terrorists in some form, but not all of them do!
SB you should research just exactly what the United States Border Patrol uses to enforce our nation's border with Mexico. It's not just "one giant fence". Granted, they do use a fence on portions of the border, but they also use remote cameras, motion sensors planted into the ground, random jeep and foot patrols, aerial surveillance, and IR viewing at night via helicopter. This is just a few of the things I can recall off hand.
In regards to what RedAssAg05 said...
The Electoral College was created due to a few key factors in the 18th century. First of all, the number of "educated people" in the United States was severely lacking. Most people were farmers, ranchers, blacksmiths, etc. who really were not educated.
Now, the Framers of the Constitution believed that a popular vote election was not feasible due to the very lack of education that existed in the United States at the time. Also, due to the northern states along the Eastern seaboard being larger in population, it was feared that those states would dominate the smaller states (ie the southern region along the Eastern seaboard).
However, in my opinion the Electoral College has outlived it's purpose with the literacy rate in the United States being approx. 99%. With the creation of properly funded public schools (in the 18th century also) there is no excuse for a student to not know how the election process works.
Hopefully this will be rectified at some point in the not so distant future.
For more information on the Electoral College, please visit: [url]http://www.fec.gov/pdf/eleccoll.pdf[/url]
PS RedAssAg05...[COLOR=orange][B]HOOK'EM HORNS!! =)[/B] [/COLOR]
This does nothing to limit the freedom of people in the nation. Now, when they want you to have a chip implanted in your forehead, or somesuch, then I will worry. But when that happens, it will be a worldwide thing, not just the US.
I can appreciate your view on getting rid of Big Brother. (You may have noticed, a few of my post yesterday were a little....angry, and I apologise. Not the best day). I myself hate big brother. If it was my call I'd overthrow the government of this nation and turn it into the way it was a long time ago, Controled by the people.
IMO, the whole "For the People" thing has turned into a myth. Every politician has an agenda, and it always benifits them, not the people.
Bush I believe is a good person, that truely wants what is best for this nation. Unfortunetally, the president is very limited in his actual power. He cannot do much besides defend this nation. While the president CAN goto war on his own order, he must present his case to congress. Both times the agreed.
Bush just does'nt know how to push a bill though congress to get his ideas done IMHO. His idea for homeland security was good, and needed, but once he leaves office, someone, eventually, will MASSIVLY abuse it. And he will make the people WANT it. Another attack ala 911 would make people all to happy to have chips inserted so the government can track your every movement, purchase, conversation.....sad, but true.
You ARE right, it is the start of something, but it is the start of something that is needed, but that will eventually stab the world in the back and open up a door for one worldwide dictator. And everyone will happily embrace the concept.
Nothing we can do to stop it, since the majority wants it.
a box cutter in a purse can be just as bad.....
-Φ
PS RedAssAg05...[COLOR=orange][B]HOOK'EM HORNS!! =)[/B] [/COLOR] [/B][/QUOTE]
Striker....SAW 'EM OFF and BEAT THE HELL OUTTA t.u. WHOOP!
If enough people WOULD get off their collective areses and DO something, then maybe we COULD change things.
[B]IMO, the whole "For the People" thing has turned into a myth. Every politician has an agenda, and it always benifits them, not the people. [/B][/QUOTE]
It hasn't been for the people for a while now. It's for the corporations.
[B]Striker....SAW 'EM OFF and BEAT THE HELL OUTTA t.u. WHOOP! [/B][/QUOTE]
I think we've got a good ole' fashioned Texas brawl forming up here...hehehehe. If you think you can beat UT how about showing it in November? :) Y'all haven't done very well the last few times. Hehe.
Okay back on topic... :)
[B]because it's not always a bomb..
a box cutter in a purse can be just as bad..... [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats pretty sad a boxcutter now I know they used that crap during the initial attack but now u bet ur ass that wimp with a boxcutter is gonna get 5 kicks in the sac. Hell I'm naked I might as well take a leak on the guy!
being nude wouldn't stop a thing.
#2. We do have to submit our valid identification to board a plane, and since every drivers liscence Ive gotten in the last 5 years requires a fingerprinting machine to scan your thumb, I have basically had my fingerprints and mugshots taken to fly across state lines.
#3. Biggles is right, "For the people, By the people" is a myth, and has not existed in a long time. Around here its the golden rule, "He who has the gold, makes the rules".
True Democracy is like True Communism, it cannot exist so long as people remain individuals. Communism/Socialism fails because all people are not labotomized, people want/need individual accomplishment and freedom. Democracy fails because there are too many out there who want it all for themselves and are willing to fuck the masses to get it.
Seriously, how can a Democracy exist in a society where lobbying is a legal action. The act of buying a vote destroys the very fabric of Democracy at its core, yet its done every day in America.
must be political night, lots of posts all over about stuff like this.
Since the media declared Gore as the winner so early in the day, thousands of people saw no need to vote at all. Sure, it wasn't the smartest move, but it's true.
I believe that if the election didn't have this whole Florida vote counting incident, Bush would have won the popular vote. Honestly, look at the numbers!
Bush: 50,456,002 or 47.87% of the vote
Gore: 50,999,897 or 48.38% of the vote
*Statistics provided by [url]http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html[/url]
The election was WAY too close to call.
[B]whats sick, is that there are 217,766,271 (from the census beureu) Americans over the age of 18. Less than half of them voted. [/B][/QUOTE]
That would be correct. Stinks doesn't it? A good portion of the population takes their freedom for granted. There are NO excuses to voting. Each state and local government gives each individual multiple ways to vote if they can't make it on election day.
[B]Seriously, how can a Democracy exist in a society where lobbying is a legal action. The act of buying a vote destroys the very fabric of Democracy at its core, yet its done every day in America.[/B][/QUOTE]
Just a quick note that that isn't (read 'shouldn't be' :() lobbying. That's just straight bribery. Lobbying is trying to influence politicians (legally one would hope) and is key to a democracy. I believe letter campaigns and protests count as lobbying.
I agree, however, that bribery is something that democracy can do without.
On a side note: I'm interested to find out that Canadians will not have to be fingerprinted or photographed at coustoms. Something about our passports being at American standards. I do remember it being very difficult to get an acceptable passport photo. Something about a pure white background, and visible ears...Screening for Vulcans perhaps? ;)
-Φ
[B]whats sick, is that there are 217,766,271 (from the census beureu) Americans over the age of 18. Less than half of them voted. [/B][/QUOTE]
I figure people dont vote becuase they dont trust the people they are voting for. Becuase it does not matter whos in power they aways seem to fuck up. There for people dont vote.