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Minbari technology
I don't know if this thought has ever been brought up before, but i was thinking the other day and came up with an intersting idea.
A thousand years ago Valen brought with him Babylon 4 in order to help the minbari and a few other races defeat the Shadows right? And B4 was pretty bad if you've ever seen the supossed specs on it. So, how much of B4's technolgy was incorporated into the Minbari's technology and then improved upon so much over the course of a thousand years that it wasn't even recognizable as human technology anymore.
I realize that the minbari were already an advanced spacefraing race when B4 appeared, but we neve see the inside of their ships or what the weapons were like to truly get an understanding of their actually technological strength. Plus, B4 would have to be pretty meaty to help them destroy the shadows at all. I don't think that if it was still primitive by Minbari standars that long ago that just being there when they needed a base would have been enough.
Just kind of a neat idea that certain parts of minbari technology might have originated in earth tech.
What do you guys think?
A thousand years ago Valen brought with him Babylon 4 in order to help the minbari and a few other races defeat the Shadows right? And B4 was pretty bad if you've ever seen the supossed specs on it. So, how much of B4's technolgy was incorporated into the Minbari's technology and then improved upon so much over the course of a thousand years that it wasn't even recognizable as human technology anymore.
I realize that the minbari were already an advanced spacefraing race when B4 appeared, but we neve see the inside of their ships or what the weapons were like to truly get an understanding of their actually technological strength. Plus, B4 would have to be pretty meaty to help them destroy the shadows at all. I don't think that if it was still primitive by Minbari standars that long ago that just being there when they needed a base would have been enough.
Just kind of a neat idea that certain parts of minbari technology might have originated in earth tech.
What do you guys think?
Comments
It's not the technology, it's the place - and the people.
[IMG]http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/newbie7.jpg[/IMG]
its a nice idea, but if B4's specs were as u say they were, then i dont think that the minbari would have anything to gain by incorporating the earth tech into their systems. for example, B4 uses a fusion reactor, whereas the minbari use something far more advanced (but i forget what it is:p). also, their weapons; earth uses pulsed energy weapons and particle beam cannons. the minbari use antimatter weaponary.
so i cant really think of anything that they might need/want. someone else might have an idea tho
as for B4 having to help them destroy the shadows, well it didnt really need to do anything other than sit there really. they needed it as a base for ops, so really its just a staging area in space - kinda like a glorified supply dump. ok, they will probably have rearmed it with more powerful weapons, but still.
Well, when i said B4's specs were pretty bad, i meant like Bad A$$ but i wanted to watch the language. I realize that minbari use all those great and wonderful weapons and reactors and engines now, but we don't know what they had a thousand years ago, the only glimps we get is some cruiser that looks like a squat and elongated sharlin without some of the fancy fins and stuff. Eh, i just thought it was a neat idea, simply because it seems possible to me that the minbari were not much more advanced a thousand years ago than the humans are during the actual show. Just an opinion thing really.
in the IFH (I've Found Her; freeware Babylon 5 space combat sim) backstory (some of which is pulled from City of Sorrows, I think...and a couple others...) there is a mention of the Minbari using starfuries (from B4's complement) with Minbari particle beams attached for primary weapons. The character in this backstory piece notes their possessing 'maneuverability beyond imagination'...hinting to at least SOME technological superiority
Now I have no idea if that tidbit was from the true JMS storyline, but it does show that someone else has thought along those same lines...and I think it fits in nicely!
[B]interesting side-note on this:
in the IFH (I've Found Her; freeware Babylon 5 space combat sim) backstory (some of which is pulled from City of Sorrows, I think...and a couple others...) there is a mention of the Minbari using starfuries (from B4's complement) with Minbari particle beams attached for primary weapons. The character in this backstory piece notes their possessing 'maneuverability beyond imagination'...hinting to at least SOME technological superiority
[/B][/QUOTE]
if i rememer correct it is also mention on the "in Valens name" B5 Comics.
Well there you have it! Earth technology WAS incoporated with Minbari hardware...to discuss whether it was used in their capital ships is pure speculation unless either side of the discussion is backed up by proof...END OF DISCUSSION
...Just kiddin!! I didn't mean it (I mean, I meant it, but not seriously;-)...please continue...and flame away :D
Serously though, its crazy to think the minbari are using ships with 1000 year old components. Think about it like this, we used WWII vintage Iowa class Battlships in the first conflict in Iraq. Retrofitted with more advanced radar/weapons/defenses ect... but it still was an Iowa class Battleship. The only tech on it from WWII was an interior door or two.
Jake
[QUOTE]The character in this backstory piece notes their possessing 'maneuverability beyond imagination'...hinting to at least SOME technological superiority[/QUOTE]
not necessarily. a spitfire is more manauverable than an F-16, that doesnt mean its more technologicaly advanced.
The two remaining issues (issues 9 and 10) are definitely way outside the realm of canon. The characters don't even come close to the ones we know and love, the technology is way off, and the whole thing is just astoundingly [i]bad[/i]. It's no wonder that all of the other issues managed to make it into collected publication, while these two remain locked away, hopefully never to be seen again.
[B]Retrofitted with more advanced radar/weapons/defenses ect... but it still was an Iowa class Battleship. The only tech on it from WWII was an interior door or two. [/B][/QUOTE]
Whole hull is still same. (today they don't make warships with 30 cm thick hull)
(and I bet they didn't make new turrets, also those 16" shells were from old stocks)
And wooden deck!
So there's much more old in those than just few doors.
[url=http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/bb-62-DNSC8902127_JPG.jpg][img]http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/bb-62-dnsc8902127_jpg-s.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/bb-62-DNST8700350_JPG.jpg][img]http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/bb-62-dnst8700350_jpg-s.jpg[/img][/url]
Nice shells: (and if I remember right maximum powder charge which is put behind shell is about 250 kgs)
[url]http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-7.htm[/url]
anyway, I still think we should use those today, there is just something about having a cannon that can fire a shell the size of a volkswagon 30+ miles.
it would be very interesting to see in a full on, long term conflict, just how many of the modern missile armed ships would survive.
they have little armour, they have limited numbers of missiles, (esp when you consider trying to overwhelm a phalanx or goalkeeper system).
An Iowa, as already stated has an armoured belt a foot thick !
Powder is cheap, shells are cheap, guiding a 16" shell isn't too hard, a 16" shell will sink ANYTHING, given a right royal chance. There is also the awesome 'gunshock' which is just undeniable.
Your only hope is that your rapid fire radar guided 4" gun can knock a 16" shell out of trajectory before you get nailed.
The only other thing is perhaps the massive laying down of fire a rapidfire 4" naval gun can produce. You may just be able to batter an Iowa to death with one. Mind you... a foot of armour is a foot of armour and nobody says you cant also use your phalanx to try combatting the incoming high speed/relatively unstable 4" shells.
this all of course is moot if you factor in free-fall laser guided bombs and sub launched torpedoes etc, you still need Carriers and support but I think given only the slightest change in naval circumstances the return could be made to making a true battleship class vessel.
I think with a decent outfit of modern weapons such as missile interceptors and anit aircraft chain guns, such ships would put up a hell of a fight! And having those big ass guns always helps once you got close to enemy coastlines. Shame they've been decomissioned.
would not ramguns be the best weapon in space?
Shoot a fotball sized chunk all the way though a ship and less the vacuum to the rest....
[B]Shame they've been decomissioned. [/B][/QUOTE]
I read somewhere that one of the reasons behind that was it was starting to be hard to find spare parts.
ASM missiles like Exocet would be pretty useless against these.
Missile's blast/fragmentation warhead would have to have weight at least over ton.
And I don't think that those 5 inch automatic guns could do damn to full nine shell salvo.
Iowa's capacity is over thousand 16" shells so there is enough of them to shatter "few" ships.
BTW, Iowa's have also twelve 5 inch guns.
With help from carrier fighters and hunter-killer subs these could easily get close to enemy fleet and pound them to hell.
Coastal bombardments is one other area in which these are damn hard to win.
With nuclear reactors this kind of ship would also have easily enough power to go faster than any other bigger warships.
[url]http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/bb-61.htm[/url] (35 knots with normal non-nuclear power)
[B]something I've always wondered..
would not ramguns be the best weapon in space?
Shoot a fotball sized chunk all the way though a ship and less the vacuum to the rest.... [/B][/QUOTE]
are u meaning mass drivers, like the centauri used?
Maybe if you have a long launch rail, you could accelerate the shell at a rate that has a minimal effect on the ship, otherwise you'd be burning fuel the whole time, trying to keep ship somewhat stationary.
Energy weapons or self-propelled ordinance do not have that effect.
Jake
as for a long enough rail launcher, im guessing it would have to be pretty damn long for it to be able to accelerate in that way
[B]first we have to develop energy weapons.;)[/B][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/abl.htm[/url]
Navy should have kilowatt-class weapon in testing.
[url]http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news_briefs/jdw021218_01.shtml[/url]
Also ground forces are building same kind of system with Israel to use against missiles and rockets.
[url]http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part12.htm[/url]
[B]are u meaning mass drivers, like the centauri used? [/B][/QUOTE]
ramguns...I suppose mass drivers are close..
basucally its two sheets of metal with oposite charges, which move a projectile in them to near light speeds..
theres one mounted on a US Battleship...and if the navy ever gets the new ships they want, they will all have them.
(The new US navy ship designs look AWESOME BTW)
First time here...
Interesting thread - from conceptual alien tech millennia ahead of ours to ww2 battleships?
Its a nice idea about the return of 'big gun' ships - I think they are amongst the most impressive things built - but they make no strategic sense. WW2 proved the dominance of the carrier and airborne power - whilst its true that modern warheads are substantially weaker as the armour of modern warships has decreased, there are plenty of terribly accurate air launched weapons that can kill the battleship.
And the fact is, that even if the battleship destroyed the enemy navy, you would still require carrier power to have influence on land.
Although you may be interested in the fact that HMS Conqueror (RN sub) sank the General Belgrano (WW2 style Argy cruiser) during the Falklands using an old style torpedo - as the Captain felt that his modern weapons lacked the power required.
Oh, and B5 should be in here somewhere -
Damn fine series... I want more...
yeah this thread is pretty typical of our discussions! wide ranging over lots of topics. most unusually tho, this one has remained quite sane!:D
i dunno if the battleships are down and out totally. maybe if they were combined with carriers, a juggernaught that combines air power with the shore bombardment capabilities of at battleship.
You want to design a behemoth with a flight deck and aircraft, mounting several 16+ inch guns with thousands of tons of hardened metal armour, most likely with a nuclear reactor and enough radar to cook a whale at 4000 yds. I expect that it will also have a significant complement of marines, some helicopters, sod it lets have some tridents too.
Two points:
1. That's insane :eek:
2. Where do I get one? :D