[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RedAssAg05 [/i]
[B]Season 3, 'War without End pt. 2'...therein lies your answer to that question:-) [/B][/QUOTE]
I'll have to watch that again thanks! There was alot of stuff going on in that 2 parter.
[QUOTE][B]MD: The reason Londo and G'Kar weren't there was because that part all happened a few years before SiL.[/B][/QUOTE]
Ahhhh all is becoming clear. I guess the only way you know about this is in the book! :)
[QUOTE][B]George Mason is that character who got exposed to plutonium and actor is Xander Berkeley.
And that other actor's name is Kiefer Sutherland (character is Jack Bauer), that can't be so hard name to remember.
Serie is just running here in Filnand.[/B][/QUOTE]
I knew it was Kiefer just didn't know how to spell his name.
btw am pretty crap at remembering names.
[quote]Ahhhh all is becoming clear. I guess the only way you know about this is in the book!
[/quote]
Not really. Think about it. In WWE2, we saw Londo and G'Kar strangle each other, and Vir picked up the imperial emblem. G'Kar and Londo are both missing in SiL, and Vir is emperor.
Not only that, but there's the fact that, during the future scenes in WWE, [i]Sheridan is still alive[/i] which would automatically preclude it taking place after SiL.
I understand the first part but the 2nd? :) In WWE2 Delenn warns Sheridan not to go to Z'ha'dum so she already knew him having come back with only 20yrs left of life so not sure I follow how you can tell the future was after SIL?!
I really will have to watch it again.
:)
'preclude' may not have been the best word to use...whether they meant to say it this way or not, the fact is that the future sequence in WWE pt 2 happens BEFORE SiL.
Okay, let's see if I can put this in a more complete chronology:
WWE pt 2:
Sheridan is unstuck in time...goes to the future (approx. 17-18 years as I recall). Londo is alive...and under the influence of 'it'. he puts 'it' to sleep with alcohol and sets Delenn and Sheridan free. as he is pulled BACK in time again, she tells him NOT to go to z'ha'dum (she knows he will die if he goes there, and come back with only 20 years left to live). Soon after they leave, G'Kar comes out and attempts to kill Londo...and they kill one another...this is BEFORE SiL, BEFORE Sheridan has gone beyond. (but only by a few years)
Z'Ha'dum:
John goes to Z'Ha'dum with Anna, thinking that the future he saw happened because he LISTENED to Delenn's warning from the future. so he goes, dies, and returns
SiL:
about 3 years after the incident with G'Kar and Londo on Centauri Prime; Vir is now the Emperor, G'Kar and Londo are gone, and Sheridan's son, David, is in training.
*when Delenn talks about their son, I have found some confusion. Possibilities:
A.) she was reassuring John that their son was safe from some sort of danger, unkown to us.
B.) she was just letting a son's father know that his son was okay, nothing more.
C.) David had come under the influence of 'it' after his 16th birthday (when he was to receive Londo's 'gift'), and was free of it at this point.
However, if C were the case, I don't see how it fits with Deconstruction of Falling Stars. in one historical documentary (the panel of three I believe, the one where Delenn comes to them) they refer to something that 'happened' with Sheridan's son, David...as though it were something rather major...which leads me to believe it was AFTER Sheridan's death; or else we would have had something more alluded to David's status in SiL.
Well, that's the best way I can think to put it...and I hope I got it right;-) hope it helps!
However, regarding David, I don't remember that line in Deconstruction specifically referring to either before or after Sheridan's death, so it could have been referring to the same thing as WWE was. Of course it's also possible that something newsworthy happened AFTER Sheridan's death. It's also possible that whatever David did actually wasn't all that bad at the time, but was being blown out of proportion by the future-news people. Remember, that wasn't the fairest of discussions they were having.
[quote]I understand the first part but the 2nd? In WWE2 Delenn warns Sheridan not to go to Z'ha'dum so she already knew him having come back with only 20yrs left of life so not sure I follow how you can tell the future was after SIL?!
I really will have to watch it again. [/quote]
You misread. I was using those points to explain why what we saw in WWE came BEFORE SiL.
I'm not going to go into detail because i don't want to spoil it for anyone, but exactly what happens to David is covered in the Centari trilogy (titled officially "The Legions of Fire") at least as far as the whole keeper thing goes. It seems to me that the Centari triology is really the direct continuatution of the main B5 story arc. A great deal of the questions i had at the end of the seiried were answered. If you are interested to see where the story went after the seiries i really recommend these books, but all of the trilogys are excelent.
And just to answer someone's question earlier, All three trilogys are based upon outlines from JMS so, yes, they can be considered cannon. And on the other two books mentioned "To Dream in the city of sorrows" and the Anna SHeridan Za'Ha'Dum one (Can't rember the title) Have a great deal of input from JMS.
So, while those are all considered deffinite canon, I seem to remember reading a statment somewhere where he was considering everything, even the comics, to be part of the official cannon.
edit: Oh, and as far as the whole final episode debate, SiL seems to be the true ending where as DoFS would be a little tase of the future. I think the best viewing order for the most continuity and sense would actually be to Watch DoFS AFTER SiL regardless of the fact that it is at the end of the 4th Season. Just My Opinion anyway.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RedAssAg05 [/i]
[B]'preclude' may not have been the best word to use...whether they meant to say it this way or not, the fact is that the future sequence in WWE pt 2 happens BEFORE SiL.
Okay, let's see if I can put this in a more complete chronology:
WWE pt 2:
Sheridan is unstuck in time...goes to the future (approx. 17-18 years as I recall). Londo is alive...and under the influence of 'it'. he puts 'it' to sleep with alcohol and sets Delenn and Sheridan free. as he is pulled BACK in time again, she tells him NOT to go to z'ha'dum (she knows he will die if he goes there, and come back with only 20 years left to live). Soon after they leave, G'Kar comes out and attempts to kill Londo...and they kill one another...this is BEFORE SiL, BEFORE Sheridan has gone beyond. (but only by a few years)
[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for explaining Red, that does make things more clearer! Still will have to see it again, was a great ep.
I forget whether the movie - In the beginning has G'kar and Londo killing each other and even if it shows Delenn and Sheridan captured or not. I would like to see that again too. :)
As for Delenn talking about David I just assumed that they were doing what was best for him not to see his Dad dying but to remember him as he was. before he left for training but I like your thoughts on whether something happened to David.
I certainly don't remember DOFS.
That was the one way ahead in the future right? I don't think I paid much attention to it at the time. So maybe in some ways it would've been better to have after SIL. Then again it wouldn't have ended so great or memorable and I'd be saying SIL should've been the end!
:)
[QUOTE][B]And just to answer someone's question earlier, All three trilogys are based upon outlines from JMS so, yes, they can be considered cannon. And on the other two books mentioned "To Dream in the city of sorrows" and the Anna SHeridan Za'Ha'Dum one (Can't rember the title) Have a great deal of input from JMS.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes it was my question, thanks. Its great to know that JMS outlined them.
:)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by MartianDust [/i]
[B]Thanks for explaining Red, that does make things more clearer! Still will have to see it again, was a great ep.
I forget whether the movie - In the beginning has G'kar and Londo killing each other and even if it shows Delenn and Sheridan captured or not. I would like to see that again too. :)
As for Delenn talking about David I just assumed that they were doing what was best for him not to see his Dad dying but to remember him as he was. before he left for training but I like your thoughts on whether something happened to David.
I certainly don't remember DOFS.
That was the one way ahead in the future right? I don't think I paid much attention to it at the time. So maybe in some ways it would've been better to have after SIL. Then again it wouldn't have ended so great or memorable and I'd be saying SIL should've been the end!
[/B][/QUOTE]
WARNING SPOILERS!!
[SPOILER]
The movie - In the beginning Londo drank alcohol while he told the story to get the keeper (the thing with one eye on his shoulder) to sleep. In the end of the movie you can see londo looking through some kind of screen at Sheridan and Delenn in the cell.
In WWE Sheridan and Delenn are broght before Londo from the the cell, and he show them the keeper and tries to help them escape. After Sheridan and Delenn are gone G'Kar comes out from hideing and Londo tells G'Kar something like "We got unfinnished buisness old friend" and then G'Kar starts to strangle Londo. The keeper on Londo wakes up and Londo starts to strangle G'Kar. Both dies there.
[/SPOILER]
If I remember correctly that's how it happened.
And yeah DOFS the episode about the future. It jump with something like 100, 1000, 10000, 1000000 years.
yea, thats pretty much how it happens. That whole scene is in the end of the Centari trilogy to. It's really a great bit of tie in to the whole story. Wonderfully done.
DoFS it starts right right when Sheriden and Delen return to the station and then the time spans are 100, 500, 1000, then 1million years.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by A2597 [/i]
[B]EA is a moron for blowing up 500,000,000 tonns of metal, rather then scrapping it / putting it to another use.[/B][/QUOTE]
Not really if you think about it. If they just let it float there, its orbit would eventually deteriorate and it would crash into Epsilon 3. Furthermore, it could become a raider base, creating a whole mess of problems resulting in the station getting blasted apart anyways.
Yeah I have seen it, few yrs ago now!
First time I watched Babylon 5 series was around 4yrs ago?! It was on 5days perwk. But I never watched the last few. So I started watching them again end of last yr. Finished last wk.
But ITB and LOTR (hmm also stands for lord of the rings) are the only 2 B5 movies I've seen. :)
I was going to say.....I wasn't that keen on LOTR at all! And if JMS is making another B5 movie I hope its alot better than that one!
ITB I loved so I know what you mean. Cept I can't really call it my fave since I not seen them all yet.
:)
I don't know man, i mean, Thirdspace was cool for the sheer size of the battle at the end and was full of cool action and all, but In The Beginning just had a great story in itself, not to mention the whole fact that it is the beginning of Babylon 5's story.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RedAssAg05 [/i]
[B]
although I didn't think the 'innovative' fire control system was done very well...kind of goofy in my opinion...
[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh god it was aweful wasnt it. I seem to remember a discussion on this a long time ago on here, and people thought I was crazy for thinking it was pretty dumb.
Comments
[B]Season 3, 'War without End pt. 2'...therein lies your answer to that question:-) [/B][/QUOTE]
I'll have to watch that again thanks! There was alot of stuff going on in that 2 parter.
[QUOTE][B]MD: The reason Londo and G'Kar weren't there was because that part all happened a few years before SiL.[/B][/QUOTE]
Ahhhh all is becoming clear. I guess the only way you know about this is in the book! :)
[QUOTE][B]George Mason is that character who got exposed to plutonium and actor is Xander Berkeley.
And that other actor's name is Kiefer Sutherland (character is Jack Bauer), that can't be so hard name to remember.
Serie is just running here in Filnand.[/B][/QUOTE]
I knew it was Kiefer just didn't know how to spell his name.
btw am pretty crap at remembering names.
;)
[/quote]
Not really. Think about it. In WWE2, we saw Londo and G'Kar strangle each other, and Vir picked up the imperial emblem. G'Kar and Londo are both missing in SiL, and Vir is emperor.
Not only that, but there's the fact that, during the future scenes in WWE, [i]Sheridan is still alive[/i] which would automatically preclude it taking place after SiL.
I really will have to watch it again.
:)
Okay, let's see if I can put this in a more complete chronology:
WWE pt 2:
Sheridan is unstuck in time...goes to the future (approx. 17-18 years as I recall). Londo is alive...and under the influence of 'it'. he puts 'it' to sleep with alcohol and sets Delenn and Sheridan free. as he is pulled BACK in time again, she tells him NOT to go to z'ha'dum (she knows he will die if he goes there, and come back with only 20 years left to live). Soon after they leave, G'Kar comes out and attempts to kill Londo...and they kill one another...this is BEFORE SiL, BEFORE Sheridan has gone beyond. (but only by a few years)
Z'Ha'dum:
John goes to Z'Ha'dum with Anna, thinking that the future he saw happened because he LISTENED to Delenn's warning from the future. so he goes, dies, and returns
SiL:
about 3 years after the incident with G'Kar and Londo on Centauri Prime; Vir is now the Emperor, G'Kar and Londo are gone, and Sheridan's son, David, is in training.
*when Delenn talks about their son, I have found some confusion. Possibilities:
A.) she was reassuring John that their son was safe from some sort of danger, unkown to us.
B.) she was just letting a son's father know that his son was okay, nothing more.
C.) David had come under the influence of 'it' after his 16th birthday (when he was to receive Londo's 'gift'), and was free of it at this point.
However, if C were the case, I don't see how it fits with Deconstruction of Falling Stars. in one historical documentary (the panel of three I believe, the one where Delenn comes to them) they refer to something that 'happened' with Sheridan's son, David...as though it were something rather major...which leads me to believe it was AFTER Sheridan's death; or else we would have had something more alluded to David's status in SiL.
Well, that's the best way I can think to put it...and I hope I got it right;-) hope it helps!
However, regarding David, I don't remember that line in Deconstruction specifically referring to either before or after Sheridan's death, so it could have been referring to the same thing as WWE was. Of course it's also possible that something newsworthy happened AFTER Sheridan's death. It's also possible that whatever David did actually wasn't all that bad at the time, but was being blown out of proportion by the future-news people. Remember, that wasn't the fairest of discussions they were having.
[quote]I understand the first part but the 2nd? In WWE2 Delenn warns Sheridan not to go to Z'ha'dum so she already knew him having come back with only 20yrs left of life so not sure I follow how you can tell the future was after SIL?!
I really will have to watch it again. [/quote]
You misread. I was using those points to explain why what we saw in WWE came BEFORE SiL.
And just to answer someone's question earlier, All three trilogys are based upon outlines from JMS so, yes, they can be considered cannon. And on the other two books mentioned "To Dream in the city of sorrows" and the Anna SHeridan Za'Ha'Dum one (Can't rember the title) Have a great deal of input from JMS.
So, while those are all considered deffinite canon, I seem to remember reading a statment somewhere where he was considering everything, even the comics, to be part of the official cannon.
edit: Oh, and as far as the whole final episode debate, SiL seems to be the true ending where as DoFS would be a little tase of the future. I think the best viewing order for the most continuity and sense would actually be to Watch DoFS AFTER SiL regardless of the fact that it is at the end of the 4th Season. Just My Opinion anyway.
[B]'preclude' may not have been the best word to use...whether they meant to say it this way or not, the fact is that the future sequence in WWE pt 2 happens BEFORE SiL.
Okay, let's see if I can put this in a more complete chronology:
WWE pt 2:
Sheridan is unstuck in time...goes to the future (approx. 17-18 years as I recall). Londo is alive...and under the influence of 'it'. he puts 'it' to sleep with alcohol and sets Delenn and Sheridan free. as he is pulled BACK in time again, she tells him NOT to go to z'ha'dum (she knows he will die if he goes there, and come back with only 20 years left to live). Soon after they leave, G'Kar comes out and attempts to kill Londo...and they kill one another...this is BEFORE SiL, BEFORE Sheridan has gone beyond. (but only by a few years)
[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for explaining Red, that does make things more clearer! Still will have to see it again, was a great ep.
I forget whether the movie - In the beginning has G'kar and Londo killing each other and even if it shows Delenn and Sheridan captured or not. I would like to see that again too. :)
As for Delenn talking about David I just assumed that they were doing what was best for him not to see his Dad dying but to remember him as he was. before he left for training but I like your thoughts on whether something happened to David.
I certainly don't remember DOFS.
That was the one way ahead in the future right? I don't think I paid much attention to it at the time. So maybe in some ways it would've been better to have after SIL. Then again it wouldn't have ended so great or memorable and I'd be saying SIL should've been the end!
:)
[QUOTE][B]And just to answer someone's question earlier, All three trilogys are based upon outlines from JMS so, yes, they can be considered cannon. And on the other two books mentioned "To Dream in the city of sorrows" and the Anna SHeridan Za'Ha'Dum one (Can't rember the title) Have a great deal of input from JMS.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes it was my question, thanks. Its great to know that JMS outlined them.
:)
[B]Thanks for explaining Red, that does make things more clearer! Still will have to see it again, was a great ep.
I forget whether the movie - In the beginning has G'kar and Londo killing each other and even if it shows Delenn and Sheridan captured or not. I would like to see that again too. :)
As for Delenn talking about David I just assumed that they were doing what was best for him not to see his Dad dying but to remember him as he was. before he left for training but I like your thoughts on whether something happened to David.
I certainly don't remember DOFS.
That was the one way ahead in the future right? I don't think I paid much attention to it at the time. So maybe in some ways it would've been better to have after SIL. Then again it wouldn't have ended so great or memorable and I'd be saying SIL should've been the end!
[/B][/QUOTE]
WARNING SPOILERS!!
[SPOILER]
The movie - In the beginning Londo drank alcohol while he told the story to get the keeper (the thing with one eye on his shoulder) to sleep. In the end of the movie you can see londo looking through some kind of screen at Sheridan and Delenn in the cell.
In WWE Sheridan and Delenn are broght before Londo from the the cell, and he show them the keeper and tries to help them escape. After Sheridan and Delenn are gone G'Kar comes out from hideing and Londo tells G'Kar something like "We got unfinnished buisness old friend" and then G'Kar starts to strangle Londo. The keeper on Londo wakes up and Londo starts to strangle G'Kar. Both dies there.
[/SPOILER]
If I remember correctly that's how it happened.
And yeah DOFS the episode about the future. It jump with something like 100, 1000, 10000, 1000000 years.
DoFS it starts right right when Sheriden and Delen return to the station and then the time spans are 100, 500, 1000, then 1million years.
[B]EA is a moron for blowing up 500,000,000 tonns of metal, rather then scrapping it / putting it to another use.[/B][/QUOTE]
Not really if you think about it. If they just let it float there, its orbit would eventually deteriorate and it would crash into Epsilon 3. Furthermore, it could become a raider base, creating a whole mess of problems resulting in the station getting blasted apart anyways.
As for ITB I plan on seeing that this wk sometime. :)
it is my favorite B5 movie of all B5 movies! I found it quite powerful...and puts some solid detail into the backstories!
First time I watched Babylon 5 series was around 4yrs ago?! It was on 5days perwk. But I never watched the last few. So I started watching them again end of last yr. Finished last wk.
But ITB and LOTR (hmm also stands for lord of the rings) are the only 2 B5 movies I've seen. :)
B5-LOTR I thought was okay...although I didn't think the 'innovative' fire control system was done very well...kind of goofy in my opinion...
Two top B5 movies for me: ITB and A Call to Arms. (although Call to Arms lacked a bit of depth...though it wasn't the only one to suffer from that)
I was going to say.....I wasn't that keen on LOTR at all! And if JMS is making another B5 movie I hope its alot better than that one!
ITB I loved so I know what you mean. Cept I can't really call it my fave since I not seen them all yet.
:)
Thirdspace
In the Beginning
The Gathering
A Call to Arms
River of Souls
You like Thirdspace more than ITB??
It's gotta be:
In the Beginning
A Call to Arms
Thirdspace
The Gathering
River of Souls / Legend of the Rangers
It's really hard for me to decide which of those last two is worse, so I figure they tie.
A Call to Arms
Thirdspace/The Gathering
River of Souls / Legend of the Rangers
my faves...TS and TG are a tie. Both good..
NOTHING beats ITB and ACTA
[B]NOTHING beats ITB and ACTA [/B][/QUOTE]
Thirdspace does! :p
Thirdspace
In the Beginning
River of Souls
The Gathering
Legend of the Rangers
Not seen CTA yet.
[B]
although I didn't think the 'innovative' fire control system was done very well...kind of goofy in my opinion...
[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh god it was aweful wasnt it. I seem to remember a discussion on this a long time ago on here, and people thought I was crazy for thinking it was pretty dumb.