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echelon@sonera.inet.fi
E.T
Quote-o-matic
in Zocalo v2.0
This is few days old news but still propably very interesting.
Some users of Sonera's email (Finland's biggest ISP) have gotten email from address "echelon@sonera.inet.fi" saying that mailbox is full.
Of course company has denied it has anything to do with US government's internet traffic and email monitoring system, Echelon.
And is saying that address is for testing of new software and that users email were directed to to this testing address by accident which caused filling up of that mailbox.
[b]Little backgound:[/b]
Four years ago guy named Jan-Erik Relander become leader of Sonera.
In little over year he "managed" drive it to in bankruptcy. (at least in practise)
Before that combined price of Sonera's stocks had been second highest of Finnish companys. (Second after Nokia)
In government everyone slipped away from liability. (Finland's government was biggest stock owner and should have watched for taxpayers interests)
After that Paavo Lipponen (prime minister of Finland at that time) covered this mess by giving 3 billion Brussel's roubles of taxpayers money to them. (makes 600 euros per every Finland's citizen)
Lipponen and Relander both had same kind of leading style. (in practise dictatorship)
Now comes more:
Before US invasion of Iraq Lipponen had meeting with Geore Bush "dumper", where he promised his support to Bush's actions. And Lipponen would have wanted to prevent Finland's people from knowing this.
Also after court investigation it's now officially known that Sonera has spyed its own employees' phones and email.
Then there have been also those evidences in EU that Echelon is also used for industrial spying.
Sonera as Finland's biggest ISP propably manages email and net connections for most of Finnish companies.
And now comes this.
So I wonder what else agreements Lipponen made with Bush.
IMHO there's too many "coincidences" in this soap!
Some users of Sonera's email (Finland's biggest ISP) have gotten email from address "echelon@sonera.inet.fi" saying that mailbox is full.
Of course company has denied it has anything to do with US government's internet traffic and email monitoring system, Echelon.
And is saying that address is for testing of new software and that users email were directed to to this testing address by accident which caused filling up of that mailbox.
[b]Little backgound:[/b]
Four years ago guy named Jan-Erik Relander become leader of Sonera.
In little over year he "managed" drive it to in bankruptcy. (at least in practise)
Before that combined price of Sonera's stocks had been second highest of Finnish companys. (Second after Nokia)
In government everyone slipped away from liability. (Finland's government was biggest stock owner and should have watched for taxpayers interests)
After that Paavo Lipponen (prime minister of Finland at that time) covered this mess by giving 3 billion Brussel's roubles of taxpayers money to them. (makes 600 euros per every Finland's citizen)
Lipponen and Relander both had same kind of leading style. (in practise dictatorship)
Now comes more:
Before US invasion of Iraq Lipponen had meeting with Geore Bush "dumper", where he promised his support to Bush's actions. And Lipponen would have wanted to prevent Finland's people from knowing this.
Also after court investigation it's now officially known that Sonera has spyed its own employees' phones and email.
Then there have been also those evidences in EU that Echelon is also used for industrial spying.
Sonera as Finland's biggest ISP propably manages email and net connections for most of Finnish companies.
And now comes this.
So I wonder what else agreements Lipponen made with Bush.
IMHO there's too many "coincidences" in this soap!
Comments
- PJH
President Bush may have gone into Iraq without solid evidence of weapons – he certainly used his feelings – gut reaction – speculation – and as you put it the many “coincidences” that seemed to point to a truth.
You have gone out of your way to point out how President Bush was wrong to do this; not have solid proof. However, I ask you: what are you doing right now?
You are using speculation, conjecture, feelings, and coincidences to reinforce your personal agenda against anything and anyone that seems to support Bush. Is there a double standard? You’re so quick to attack “stupid Bush” and those “foolish Americans” that support him but you turn around and do the same thing…
I’d appreciate it if you would show the same kind of maturity in reasoning that you all seem to want from US citizens and politicians. You’re so eager to jump on the “we hate America” bandwagon that you’re blind to what you yourself are doing. Stop relying on coincidence, wonder, and your ‘humble’ opinion – it’s not enough.
Let the wave of close mindedness and denial begin…
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by E.T [/i]
[B]This is few days old news but still propably very interesting.
Some users of Sonera's email (Finland's biggest ISP) have gotten email from address "echelon@sonera.inet.fi" saying that mailbox is full.
Of course company has denied it has anything to do with US government's internet traffic and email monitoring system, Echelon.
And is saying that address is for testing of new software and that users email were directed to to this testing address by accident which caused filling up of that mailbox.
[/B][/QUOTE]
okay E.T you know computers, you know how servers work, do you honestly think that there is going to be a freakin Echelon email account like that? As Konrad pointed out you are using this random occurance as proof. First of all i doubt echeclon has that kind of data storage issues, secondly, the way it harvests data doesnt work like that, you wouldnt see any bounces. God the people who set it up know what they are doing! first of all they used a unix based OS! ;)
Here in the US we talk about weirdos who wear tin hats to resist "mind control" rays.. and your voyaging into that kind of bizzare territory.
[B]I’d appreciate it if you would show the same kind of maturity in reasoning that you all seem to want from US citizens and politicians. You’re so eager to jump on the “we hate America” bandwagon that you’re blind to what you yourself are doing. Stop relying on coincidence, wonder, and your ‘humble’ opinion – it’s not enough.[/B][/QUOTE]
Same to you!
I'm wondering what you have read.
I meant things around Sonera mess with "coincidences".
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]...secondly, the way it harvests data doesnt work like that, you wouldnt see any bounces. God the people who set it up know what they are doing![/B][/QUOTE]
Well, if Sonera has something to do with it that doesn't seem to apply.
Last year their email system was crashing/malfunctioning almost for half year.Many didn't get any emails though servers, others got messages one month after sending and so on. It was because of email viruses and worms but somehow, other ISPs had only small problems or no problems at all.
And if my imagination is going too fast,someone others must be going much faster:Cook up an idea of using this addess for testing purpose.
I sure as h*ll could never cook up that kind of idea.
And if you americans have better information what has happened in (and around) Sonera in last five years then, then don't just complain that I'm figuring out things from nothing but rather tell those facts.
(I mean events leading to bankruptcy, mess with spying employees phones and emails, all these problems with email servers)
And your very high "black and white" mentality shines through too much. If someone mentions Bush somewhere you have to immediately start defending him even when he's not subject of thread.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by E.T [/i]
[B]And your very high "black and white" mentality shines through too much. If someone mentions Bush somewhere you have to immediately start defending him even when he's not subject of thread. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, I was starting to wonder about that too. IMO this is a thread about Sonera and not Bush. Well, Bush was only mentioned alittle.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by E.T [/i]
[B]Well, if Sonera has something to do with it that doesn't seem to apply.
Last year their email system was crashing/malfunctioning almost for half year.Many didn't get any emails though servers, others got messages one month after sending and so on. It was because of email viruses and worms but somehow, other ISPs had only small problems or no problems at all.[/B][/QUOTE]
That just indicates poor technical setup and maintenance, not spying.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]That just indicates poor technical setup and maintenance, not spying. [/B][/QUOTE]
Was gonna say that.
And some of the strongest anti-Bush people I know are Americans.. hell, I don't know a single person who does support him IRL.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by E.T [/i]
[B]
And your very high "black and white" mentality shines through too much. If someone mentions Bush somewhere you have to immediately start defending him even when he's not subject of thread. [/B][/QUOTE]
E.T
the way your post reads it implies that the Echelon program has something to do with this mess, and therefore the US government, frankly you have absolutly no evidence to support that in the slightest. Now Sonera and the Finnish government may have their own problems, but dont go thinking that the US government is responsibile or involved. Other people can screw up the world just as well as we can here in the US
You made bush the subject of this thread with your closing comments
[QUOTE][i]
So I wonder what else agreements Lipponen made with Bush.
IMHO there's too many "coincidences" in this soap!
[/i][/b][/QUOTE]
This combined with your mention of the Echelon program is implying a connection. Now maybe I am missreading what you wrote, but i would submit in that case that you should clarify the vaguness is your writing to more adequatly send your message.
No where in my post did I jump to defend Bush - I was trying to draw a parallel between the mistake Bush made - and the one I know you are making. I'm not the one here thinking black and white.
"...open your mind... ...ooopppeennn your miiiiinnnnddd ~ QUAAAADDD!!!" Read what I posted. :D
[B]You made bush the subject of this thread with your closing comments [/B][/QUOTE]
He didn't make it a subject of this thread and he wasn't mocking Bush. He only mentioned about those negotiations our prime minister had with Bush in relation to other issues which have been on the news a lot in here lately.
And btw, that company Sonera actually got caught of spying some people already in here. It's a fact. That's why there's more suspections against that company. So people are not only making up things. The suspections are quite valid.
- PJH
[B]He didn't make it a subject of this thread and he wasn't mocking Bush. He only mentioned about those negotiations our prime minister had with Bush in relation to other issues which have been on the news a lot in here lately.
And btw, that company Sonera actually got caught of spying some people already in here. It's a fact. That's why there's more suspections against that company. So people are not only making up things. The suspections are quite valid.
- PJH [/B][/QUOTE]
Nobody is denying that Sonera might be spying, hell it probably is, but the way that E.T phrased his initial message implies that the US has something to do with it. Like that Sonera is doing this on behalf of, or because of requests from american intelligence, which there is no evidence for in the slightest.
[B]Nobody is denying that Sonera might be spying, hell it probably is, but the way that E.T phrased his initial message implies that the US has something to do with it. Like that Sonera is doing this on behalf of, or because of requests from american intelligence, which there is no evidence for in the slightest. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, well, I don't believe in that either, but you never know. Pretty much anything seems to be possible in this world, unfortunately.
- PJH
[B]Like that Sonera is doing this on behalf of, or because of requests from american intelligence, which there is no evidence for in the slightest. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, guess I have to start acting like what you treat me.
So here's more gasoline to fire.
Did you forgot that every airplane company have to give all data of passengers from flights to your country to your government.
And internet respects borders of countries very little so it would be logical next step to start monitoring internet in other countries.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by E.T [/i]
[B]And your very high "black and white" mentality shines through too much. If someone mentions Bush somewhere you have to immediately start defending him even when he's not subject of thread. [/B][/QUOTE]
Nice of you to lump us all in the same boat there Simmonds...err E.T. :rolleyes:
*points to location*
For the record, I am *VERY* against Bush.
[B]Well, guess I have to start acting like what you treat me.
So here's more gasoline to fire.
Did you forgot that every airplane company have to give all data of passengers from flights to your country to your government.
And internet respects borders of countries very little so it would be logical next step to start monitoring internet in other countries. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually despite the news making a big hoopla over that, somebody pointed out that its been SOP for a while, FAA keeps flight manifests, and has since about the 50's or so, because that way when a plane crashes they can figure out who the heck is on it and notify the families. That and criminals tend to try to fly around. Actually most governments have the flight manifests for flights originating or terminating in their territorial jurisdiction, because things happen.